2008 Salon

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JLee
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2008 Salon

#1 Post by JLee » July 2nd, 2019, 11:27 am



According to Peter Liem's post, 2008 Salon will only be sold in boxed sets including late disgorged 2004, 2006, and 2007 Salon. From the picture it looks like 6 bottles of other wines to purchase one mag of the 2008.

I probably wasn't in the market for this given anticipated pricing but this just puts another nail in the coffin. I'm sure some single mags will reach the secondary market, but it seems like a very aggressive sales strategy and one that will limit the availability of the wine for most. I know bundling is a reality for some parts of the wine market but 6 bottles of salon to buy 1 mag is extreme.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#2 Post by julianseersmartin » July 2nd, 2019, 11:30 am

Is there any more information on the reasons behind this decision? Did they have an unusually small production or something? Salon obviously isn't massively produced but this is the equivalent of ~1300 6 bottle cases in production; not a lot at all.

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Re: 2008 Salon

#3 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » July 2nd, 2019, 11:30 am

Wow.

That really limits this to a very select few. I had an open order with my local wine guy for the 2008 Salon with the hopes that it would show up in regular distribution channels like DP and Cristal. He obviously had not heard this from his distributor. Guess my order won't even get a nod.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#4 Post by William Segui » July 2nd, 2019, 11:39 am

at least I got some 08 Delamotte

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Re: 2008 Salon

#5 Post by William Kelley » July 2nd, 2019, 12:29 pm

They are releasing 8,000 magnums for the world. US release is slated for September 2019.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#6 Post by B. Buzzini » July 2nd, 2019, 5:09 pm

I'll wait till Costco has it. champagne.gif
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Re: 2008 Salon

#7 Post by alan weinberg » July 2nd, 2019, 9:14 pm

sucks that they didn’t think of the masses, us little people, and put it all in 375s instead.

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Re: 2008 Salon

#8 Post by Kris Patten » July 2nd, 2019, 9:35 pm

alan weinberg wrote:
July 2nd, 2019, 9:14 pm
sucks that they didn’t think of the masses, us little people, and put it all in 375s instead.
Or 187mls....
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Re: 2008 Salon

#9 Post by Anton D » July 2nd, 2019, 9:40 pm

I can’t afford to click on the picture of it.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#10 Post by J. Galang » July 2nd, 2019, 9:54 pm

I know they can do whatever they want as a business, but this seems like a shameless money grab to bundle unsold aka "late-disgorged" bottles of other Salon vintages at an even higher mark up. It's brilliant but it's still bundling to me.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#11 Post by Yao C » July 2nd, 2019, 10:50 pm

I wonder what the true production was; even if it was down in 2008 I bet there's still a tremendous amount being held back pending the success or failure of this little experiment

In the end I'd rather the producer capture the consumer surplus than have a big gap between allocation prices and secondary market prices
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Re: 2008 Salon

#12 Post by c fu » July 2nd, 2019, 11:27 pm

Yao C wrote:
July 2nd, 2019, 10:50 pm
I wonder what the true production was; even if it was down in 2008 I bet there's still a tremendous amount being held back pending the success or failure of this little experiment

In the end I'd rather the producer capture the consumer surplus than have a big gap between allocation prices and secondary market prices
Thinking the same. Not like 08 was a short vintage.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#13 Post by Pat Esposito » July 3rd, 2019, 5:19 am

I saw another Instagram post, looks like it is one bottle each of the 750s, and then the Mag of the '08. If I can find the picture I'll post here.

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Re: 2008 Salon

#14 Post by YLee » July 3rd, 2019, 5:40 am

How much is this going for?
-¥ 0 ñ 9

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Re: 2008 Salon

#15 Post by alan weinberg » July 3rd, 2019, 7:41 am

YLee wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 5:40 am
How much is this going for?
if you have to ask . . .

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Re: 2008 Salon

#16 Post by p@ulbortin » July 3rd, 2019, 8:05 am

Sucks.
Guess I’ll be forced to get more cases of 2008 DP.

champagne.gif

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Re: 2008 Salon

#17 Post by James Kennedy » July 3rd, 2019, 8:56 am

c fu wrote:
July 2nd, 2019, 11:27 pm
Yao C wrote:
July 2nd, 2019, 10:50 pm
I wonder what the true production was; even if it was down in 2008 I bet there's still a tremendous amount being held back pending the success or failure of this little experiment

In the end I'd rather the producer capture the consumer surplus than have a big gap between allocation prices and secondary market prices
Thinking the same. Not like 08 was a short vintage.
Agreed. The hype is frustrating. LVMH played games with the 02 Krug release. Six months after initial release (and the requisite press tour/hype), it was selling for $75-100 less per bottle here in DFW.

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Re: 2008 Salon

#18 Post by c fu » July 3rd, 2019, 9:15 am

James Kennedy wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 8:56 am
c fu wrote:
July 2nd, 2019, 11:27 pm
Yao C wrote:
July 2nd, 2019, 10:50 pm
I wonder what the true production was; even if it was down in 2008 I bet there's still a tremendous amount being held back pending the success or failure of this little experiment

In the end I'd rather the producer capture the consumer surplus than have a big gap between allocation prices and secondary market prices
Thinking the same. Not like 08 was a short vintage.
Agreed. The hype is frustrating. LVMH played games with the 02 Krug release. Six months after initial release (and the requisite press tour/hype), it was selling for $75-100 less per bottle here in DFW.
Yeah. Same as 04 krug. I’ve been receiving blow out pricing this year. As low as $190 a btl
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Re: 2008 Salon

#19 Post by Doug Schulman » July 3rd, 2019, 9:51 am

8000 magnums...how does that compare to typical production quantities for Salon?
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Re: 2008 Salon

#20 Post by R@y.Tupp@+sch » July 3rd, 2019, 10:09 am

Doug Schulman wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 9:51 am
8000 magnums...how does that compare to typical production quantities for Salon?
Usually around 60,000 bottles, so approximately 25%.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#21 Post by Brad Baker » July 3rd, 2019, 10:48 am

Salon began rolling this packaging out publicly this week and I'm a little shocked at the magnums only being sold with the bottles. They swear they are not going to break the packages up and the entire 8,000 magnum release will only be sold this way. Each magnum of 2008 is packaged with (2) bottles each of 2004, 2006, and 2007. That means that for the 8,000 magnums being released, they are also packaging up 16,000 bottles each of the 2004, 2006, and 2007. I find this very strange.

It is tough to nail down the exact production numbers of Salon in each vintage, but it averages around 60k per vintage. It can get as high as 100k (1996 is an example of this), but it can get down to 20-30k too (2008 is an example). Production on the 2004 was around 45k bottles and 2006 and 2007 closer to 60k. This includes bottles planned for the original release, hold backs for library releases, and, I think, magnums counted as two bottles. They are essentially selling a large portion of the last three vintages as part of the 2008 package. My guess as to why is that the wine wasn't moving well and this gives them a chance to move it... and at a premium. Great move on their part if they can get it. They know 2008 is in demand so why not move other stuff you want out of inventory. I would not be surprised if they move all 8,000 sets without too much difficulty.

For as treasured a wine as Salon is, it has had a hard time moving in many vintages. It entered back into the US market with the 1979 and was cold until the 1990 and 1995 vintages when it finally starting moving in the $150-$200 range. Next came the white hot 1996 vintage when it was easy to find in the $200-$250 price range. They tried to raise the price to $300-$350 with the 1997 vintage and ended up blowing it out at sub-$150 to move it and then decided to just keep 10-15,000 bottles for library releases. With the 1999, the price was back up over $300 and it continued to go up from there and now it is hard to find a bottle of a recent release for under $400. Is it really selling all that well?

I see a lot of Salon from 1999 onwards still sitting around in shops. The 2002 is the exception that seems to have sold well, but the other vintages don't seem to have moved like many would expect. Maybe not to the same degree, but this almost reminds me a bit of the 1985 and 1988 bottles that sat around unsold in the late 90s and early 00s. Again, is Salon really selling well? Looking at the data, I don't think recent vintages have moved. I know that they are doing everything they can to not discount recent vintages to move bottles like they did with 1997. My gut tells me this packaging is the solution.

I haven't tasted 2008 Salon so no comment from me on the quality, but I have been very disappointed in most vintages going back to 1982. Lots of variation and unrealized potential especially in wines like 1982, 1985, 1988, and 1990. The 1996 is great and I like 1997 too, but the others leave me lacking. Recent vintages from 1999 - 2007 seem way too forward for my liking and lacking the desired structure and backbone. I hope 2008 is as great as folks say, but, to me, the most exciting thing about Salon is that a new winemaker is coming on-board in 2020.

Michel Fauconnet is retiring and Dominique Demarville is making the move from Veuve Clicquot to Laurent-Perrier in 2020 and taking over all the winemaking, vineyard, and production responsibilities for the group. This means not only Laurent-Perrier, but also Salon and Delamotte. I see nothing but great things ahead for Laurent-Perrier as Dominique is one of the top (maybe the top) Chef de Caves in Champagne.

Final thoughts - as I stated, it is tough to nail number exact Salon production numbers, but I have been told different figures at different times on the 2008 production. It is higher than 8k as some magnums are being held back, but I don't know if the final number is 10k, 12k or something else. Why did they only make a limited number of magnums in 2008? Because that is what they wanted to do. Salon doesn't have much actual land that it historically owns. Laurent-Perrier has a lot of land and grape supply that they use in Salon and depending on the year and marketing plan, they choose to do different things. 2008 is clearly a year they wanted to try something different with the wine.

Maybe I am way off base with my thoughts so feel free to flame away.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#22 Post by jcoley3 » July 3rd, 2019, 10:54 am

My two cents is that the wine is way too inconsistent for the price asked, and there are simply too many great growers/micronegociants in the Cote de Blancs making gorgeous wine to make me want to play in this league even when the wine is showing as it should.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#23 Post by R@y.Tupp@+sch » July 3rd, 2019, 11:00 am

Brad Baker wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 10:48 am

For as treasured a wine as Salon is, it has had a hard time moving in many vintages. It entered back into the US market with the 1979 and was cold until the 1990 and 1995 vintages when it finally starting moving in the $150-$200 range. Next came the white hot 1996 vintage when it was easy to find in the $200-$250 price range. They tried to raise the price to $300-$350 with the 1997 vintage and ended up blowing it out at sub-$150 to move it and then decided to just keep 10-15,000 bottles for library releases. With the 1999, the price was back up over $300 and it continued to go up from there and now it is hard to find a bottle of a recent release for under $400. Is it really selling all that well?
It even had a hard time moving the '96 vintage. I bought two large parcels well after the release for much less than $200.

Don't know if recent vintages are moving but nobody I know has bought significant quantities of any vintage post 96. WB retailers could probably give some insight.

The other very surprising thing is how the price for vintages from 82-96 have skyrocketed at auction especially considering the issues from 82-90.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#24 Post by EricG » July 3rd, 2019, 11:00 am

This little game will likely lead me to justify buying a few btls of 08 Krug CdM. And a LOT more Comtes!
Last edited by EricG on July 3rd, 2019, 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#25 Post by Brad Baker » July 3rd, 2019, 11:09 am

R@y.Tupp@+sch wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 11:00 am
Brad Baker wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 10:48 am

For as treasured a wine as Salon is, it has had a hard time moving in many vintages. It entered back into the US market with the 1979 and was cold until the 1990 and 1995 vintages when it finally starting moving in the $150-$200 range. Next came the white hot 1996 vintage when it was easy to find in the $200-$250 price range. They tried to raise the price to $300-$350 with the 1997 vintage and ended up blowing it out at sub-$150 to move it and then decided to just keep 10-15,000 bottles for library releases. With the 1999, the price was back up over $300 and it continued to go up from there and now it is hard to find a bottle of a recent release for under $400. Is it really selling all that well?
It even had a hard time moving the '96 vintage. I bought two large parcels well after the release for much less than $200.

Don't know if recent vintages are moving but nobody I know has bought significant quantities of any vintage post 96. WB retailers could probably give some insight.

The other very surprising thing is how the price for vintages from 82-96 have skyrocketed at auction especially considering the issues from 82-90.
Ray,

Good point. Completely agree. Even fairly recent vintages like 1995, 1997, and 1999 all seem to be selling at $500-$600 a bottle on the secondary market which I don't understand and, as you pointed out, the risk with the 82-90 bottles is so high; how people are paying close to $1k a bottle for them is beyond me. Salon has always been a little odd in how they disgorged the wine too. They have tended to do multiple disgorgements (normally at least 6) at a fairly regular cadence and then release it all out into the market. This normally meant 8-12k a bottles hitting the market at one time and hoping the timing was right. Lately, it appears they have had to skip some disgorgements or make them smaller in size.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#26 Post by Steve Pritchard » July 3rd, 2019, 11:15 am

Hey Brad,

Agree with your thoughts. I know of many people who continue to buy salon, even though the wines suffers from variation and early oxidation. A little more sugar and SO2 at disgorgement wouldn't go amiss I suspect. In Dominique we trust! :)

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Re: 2008 Salon

#27 Post by Nathan Smyth » July 3rd, 2019, 4:29 pm

R@y.Tupp@+sch wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 10:09 am
Doug Schulman wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 9:51 am
8000 magnums...how does that compare to typical production quantities for Salon?
Usually around 60,000 bottles, so approximately 25%.
I had no idea that Salon was such a tiny winery.

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Re: 2008 Salon

#28 Post by alan weinberg » July 3rd, 2019, 5:29 pm

Nathan Smyth wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 4:29 pm
R@y.Tupp@+sch wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 10:09 am
Doug Schulman wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 9:51 am
8000 magnums...how does that compare to typical production quantities for Salon?
Usually around 60,000 bottles, so approximately 25%.
I had no idea that Salon was such a tiny winery.
it’s the high end bottling of Delamotte made a few vintages per decade, more often in recent past. .

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Re: 2008 Salon

#29 Post by Phil Smith » July 3rd, 2019, 6:04 pm

Presumably they incorrectly believed that they could move the '04-07 at $500+/bottle. Not sure they're any more prescient with their '08 strategy. Happy to wait it out and see what happens.

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Re: 2008 Salon

#30 Post by B. Buzzini » July 3rd, 2019, 6:16 pm

So...over under retail for the pack...$4.5k?
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Re: 2008 Salon

#31 Post by AndyK » July 3rd, 2019, 6:36 pm

$4999 is my guess
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Re: 2008 Salon

#32 Post by Yao C » July 3rd, 2019, 7:27 pm

I’d take the over as well. I bet they’ve been inspired by the premium DP has been able to charge for P2 vs the current release
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Re: 2008 Salon

#33 Post by Mark Golodetz » July 4th, 2019, 2:55 am

With Taittinger Comte Rose 2006/7 available at $135 a bottle, cannot see why I would want to spend four times as much for the Salon
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Re: 2008 Salon

#34 Post by David Glasser » July 4th, 2019, 6:00 am

Love Salon, but 1996 was the last I bought more than 1 bottle of. Too rich for my blood.

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Re: 2008 Salon

#35 Post by dbailey » July 4th, 2019, 7:36 am

David Glasser wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 6:00 am
Love Salon, but 1996 was the last I bought more than 1 bottle of. Too rich for my blood.
Same here. Wonder what my mags of the 96 are worth on this basis!
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Re: 2008 Salon

#36 Post by Russell Faulkner » July 4th, 2019, 7:42 am

dbailey wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 7:36 am
David Glasser wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 6:00 am
Love Salon, but 1996 was the last I bought more than 1 bottle of. Too rich for my blood.
Same here. Wonder what my mags of the 96 are worth on this basis!
Sell. Sold all my Salon.

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Re: 2008 Salon

#37 Post by R@y.Tupp@+sch » July 4th, 2019, 8:49 am

dbailey wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 7:36 am
David Glasser wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 6:00 am
Love Salon, but 1996 was the last I bought more than 1 bottle of. Too rich for my blood.
Same here. Wonder what my mags of the 96 are worth on this basis!
$2000+ per mag at auction.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#38 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 4th, 2019, 9:06 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:55 am
With Taittinger Comte Rose 2006/7 available at $135 a bottle, cannot see why I would want to spend four times as much for the Salon
I'd love to find either of those Comtes roses for $135!
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Re: 2008 Salon

#39 Post by R@y.Tupp@+sch » July 4th, 2019, 10:11 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:06 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:55 am
With Taittinger Comte Rose 2006/7 available at $135 a bottle, cannot see why I would want to spend four times as much for the Salon
I'd love to find either of those Comtes roses for $135!
You can buy both vintages in London for that, including the cost to get it here.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#40 Post by Robert M yers » July 4th, 2019, 10:18 am

Yeah I haven’t seen Rose that cheap since PC offered the 02 @125

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Re: 2008 Salon

#41 Post by François Audouze » July 6th, 2019, 3:49 pm

I have drunk the 2008 Salon, and I must say that I found it one of the greatest Salon I have ever drunk.

As I have drunk every Salon since 1995 on the day of their official delivery, I see that the 2008 is particularly well made.
It reminds me of 1966 Salon which is one of my preferred Salon. It reminds me also 1988 but Didier Depond thinks more of 1982, and agrees with me on the 1966.

Didier Depond had told me many years ago that the 2008 would be only available in magnums. I did not know about a joint marketing of other vintages. I have no idea how the market would react.

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Re: 2008 Salon

#42 Post by J Kang » September 18th, 2019, 8:32 am

AndyK wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 6:36 pm
$4999 is my guess
$9000
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Re: 2008 Salon

#43 Post by Doug Schulman » September 18th, 2019, 10:08 am

J Kang wrote:
September 18th, 2019, 8:32 am
AndyK wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 6:36 pm
$4999 is my guess
$9000
[rofl.gif]

More power to them if they can get it, I guess. I had a '96 Salon a couple of weeks ago that was extremely mediocre, not just by the standard of its price and reputation, but by the standard of Champagne in general. I've had better bottles of Pierre Peters NV. I am not exaggerating. We also had a '96 Comtes that was mindblowing. Even lesser vintages of Comtes (and Peters Chetillons) are FAR better than that '96 Salon was.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#44 Post by Jörgen Lindström Carlvik » September 18th, 2019, 11:23 am

Available here in Sweden for pre-booking at USD8000 + change.
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Re: 2008 Salon

#45 Post by Yao C » September 18th, 2019, 11:52 am

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote:
September 18th, 2019, 11:23 am
Available here in Sweden for pre-booking at USD8000 + change.
Good for Laurent-Perrier! Let's see how this does in the marketplace [popcorn.gif]
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Re: 2008 Salon

#46 Post by brodie thomson » September 18th, 2019, 11:59 am

Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote:
September 18th, 2019, 11:23 am
Available here in Sweden for pre-booking at USD8000 + change.
Hah - I can do better than that! Offered here in NZ for NZ$14,950 which is US$9,500.

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Re: 2008 Salon

#47 Post by Dustin Buchko » September 18th, 2019, 12:31 pm

So it is 2 bottles each of 2004, 2006, 2007 and 1 mag of the 2008? That is equivalent to $1000+ a bottle. Big Yikes.

kristofstevens
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Joined: June 5th, 2011, 3:25 am

Re: 2008 Salon

#48 Post by kristofstevens » September 18th, 2019, 1:15 pm

7500€ recommended price for the case including taxes is what I heard today from a distributor

dbailey
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Joined: September 7th, 2009, 8:44 am

Re: 2008 Salon

#49 Post by dbailey » September 18th, 2019, 1:18 pm

About time to sell my mags of 96!
Dan

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alan weinberg
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Re: 2008 Salon

#50 Post by alan weinberg » September 18th, 2019, 1:27 pm

kristofstevens wrote:
September 18th, 2019, 1:15 pm
7500€ recommended price for the case including taxes is what I heard today from a distributor
they can kiss my (poor) ass.

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