The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

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Marcus Goodfellow
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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#151 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » August 4th, 2019, 7:17 pm

GregT wrote:
August 4th, 2019, 4:17 pm
I was wondering how and why this thread was revived. But maybe it's worth revisiting at almost two years in.

And BTW, in case Marcus peeks at it - during the first life of the thread, I wasn't familiar with the wines at Johan. Subsequently I've discovered them and I absolutely agree - they sure do make a most excellent Blaufrankisch. Some east coast somms were trying to make that the hip grape a few years ago, I guess because it sounded all edgy and Teutonic, but it's a grape that really does deserve more attention beyond faddishness, particularly in cooler climate sites. And I've been hunting up all the Johan wines that I can find.

Any idea how they're doing with those non-PN grapes?
Greg,

That’s great to hear.

I talked to the folks at Johan over the IPNC weekend, and hit Dan Rinke up for some Blaufrankisch fruit as well. They have seen it catch on, and are doing well with it. Which translated to no fruit to be had this year...

Still a great wine and a grape that I think is remarkably well suited to the Willamette Valley!
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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#152 Post by GregT » August 5th, 2019, 12:05 am

Well then go for it! Good to hear that they're doing well. There was a winery in Michigan that made what may have been one of the best I've had from the US. Unfortunately, last month when I was out there, I learned that they've closed down. They just couldn't build the market for it. Good for Johan and I look forward to more.

Adam - try Silverlake - trying so hard to be cool that it is physically painful, or Everson Royce, affiliated but a little less desperate. Both had the wine a few months ago.
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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#153 Post by Robert Grenley » August 5th, 2019, 1:47 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 2:35 pm
Doug Schulman wrote:
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens when the public turns against Pinot Noir.

Not if, when.
Why do you think that will happen? Despite the whole “ABC” thing, Chardonnay has enjoyed ridiculous commercial success worldwide for a very long time.
Because tastes change.

Chardonnay has a specific core market that won’t drink anything else.

I never run into people who say they only drink Pinot Noir.
I only drink Pinot Noir.

Ok, and Chardonnay too, I guess, but less.

I am late to this thread, but there is no greater red varietal than Pinot Noir, and there is no greater white varietal than Chardonnay, and that is that. Mike down.
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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#154 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » August 5th, 2019, 3:32 am

Robert Grenley wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 1:47 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 2:35 pm
Doug Schulman wrote: Why do you think that will happen? Despite the whole “ABC” thing, Chardonnay has enjoyed ridiculous commercial success worldwide for a very long time.
Because tastes change.

Chardonnay has a specific core market that won’t drink anything else.

I never run into people who say they only drink Pinot Noir.
I only drink Pinot Noir.

Ok, and Chardonnay too, I guess, but less.

I am late to this thread, but there is no greater red varietal than Pinot Noir, and there is no greater white varietal than Chardonnay, and that is that. Mike down.
I’ll give you a pass on the Pinot pronouncement, but as for Chardonnay you are dead wrong.
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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#155 Post by brigcampbell » August 5th, 2019, 4:53 am

Blaufrankisch, for real?

Anyone do a great Chenin in the PNW? To me, that would be an obvious replacement for PG.

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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#156 Post by Peter Valiquette » August 5th, 2019, 8:06 am

I hope no one ever pulls out Pinot Noir to plant Gruner Veltliner.

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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#157 Post by Jeff Vaughan » August 5th, 2019, 9:26 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 3:32 am
Robert Grenley wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 1:47 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 2:35 pm


Because tastes change.

Chardonnay has a specific core market that won’t drink anything else.

I never run into people who say they only drink Pinot Noir.
I only drink Pinot Noir.

Ok, and Chardonnay too, I guess, but less.

I am late to this thread, but there is no greater red varietal than Pinot Noir, and there is no greater white varietal than Chardonnay, and that is that. Mike down.
I’ll give you a pass on the Pinot pronouncement, but as for Chardonnay you are dead wrong.
This might be a good poll for whites. Chardonnay, Riesling or other. I am voting for Chardonnay.
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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#158 Post by Richard T r i m p i » August 5th, 2019, 10:30 am

Jeff Vaughan wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 9:26 am
This might be a good poll for whites. Chardonnay, Riesling or other. I am voting for Chardonnay.
There are some fairly old Riesling plantings in the WV. Belle Pente made an outstanding once and done dessert Riesling in 2002. They've been making a tasty Alsatian-esque dry version for many years. BBers: Todd and Marcus have tried their hand. There're relatively well known OR Riesling producers like: Brooks, Chehalem, Love & Squalor, Paetra, and Trisaetum.

They can be very good to excellent. The problem is value. World class German, Alsatian and Austrian Rieslings are similarly priced and fairly widely available.

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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#159 Post by GregT » August 5th, 2019, 11:20 am

Anyone do a great Chenin in the PNW? To me, that would be an obvious replacement for PG.
I think it was one of the earliest grapes planted in Washington back in the 1970s. Then along came Chardonnay and now there are only something like 60 -70 acres left.

"Great" I don't know, but I believe L’Ecole No 41 still makes one, Hogue Cellars used to many years ago, and there were a few here and there. I remember reading a few years ago that people had planted a bit in Oregon, but I don't know. I've had a couple from Idaho. I was told that the problem is you need a pretty cool site, but if the winters are too cold you lose vines.
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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#160 Post by Jared Wagner » August 5th, 2019, 2:13 pm

Erica Orr Makes a fantastic old vines Chenin in Washington. Lots of old world characteristics like smelly socks and mushroom. It runs about $25 and is worth every penny.

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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#161 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » August 5th, 2019, 3:55 pm

Jared Wagner wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 2:13 pm
Erica Orr Makes a fantastic old vines Chenin in Washington. Lots of old world characteristics like smelly socks and mushroom. It runs about $25 and is worth every penny.
The bottle I had was lovely acid driven and pure, but without the mushroom and smelly socks(lactobacillus issue?). It’s exceptional and I don’t generally like WA wines.
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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#162 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » August 5th, 2019, 4:39 pm

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 3:55 pm
Jared Wagner wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 2:13 pm
Erica Orr Makes a fantastic old vines Chenin in Washington. Lots of old world characteristics like smelly socks and mushroom. It runs about $25 and is worth every penny.
The bottle I had was lovely acid driven and pure, but without the mushroom and smelly socks(lactobacillus issue?). It’s exceptional and I don’t generally like WA wines.
What don’t you generally like about WA wines. Honestly curious.
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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#163 Post by Jim Anderson » August 5th, 2019, 5:25 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 4:39 pm
Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 3:55 pm
Jared Wagner wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 2:13 pm
Erica Orr Makes a fantastic old vines Chenin in Washington. Lots of old world characteristics like smelly socks and mushroom. It runs about $25 and is worth every penny.
The bottle I had was lovely acid driven and pure, but without the mushroom and smelly socks(lactobacillus issue?). It’s exceptional and I don’t generally like WA wines.
What don’t you generally like about WA wines. Honestly curious.
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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#164 Post by Scott G r u n e r » August 5th, 2019, 9:28 pm

Robert Grenley wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 1:47 am




I am late to this thread, but there is no greater red varietal than Pinot Noir, and there is no greater white varietal than Chardonnay, and that is that. Mike down.
What did Mike do to you? Seems uncalled for.
//Cynic

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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#165 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » August 5th, 2019, 11:48 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 4:39 pm
Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 3:55 pm
Jared Wagner wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 2:13 pm
Erica Orr Makes a fantastic old vines Chenin in Washington. Lots of old world characteristics like smelly socks and mushroom. It runs about $25 and is worth every penny.
The bottle I had was lovely acid driven and pure, but without the mushroom and smelly socks(lactobacillus issue?). It’s exceptional and I don’t generally like WA wines.
What don’t you generally like about WA wines. Honestly curious.
My tastes run to lighter bodied, lower alcohol wines. I produce Pinot Noir at the lower abv, lower pH, and higher tannin ends of the Willamette Valley spectrum. I enjoy Loire valley wines over CdP 100 out of 100 times(and no disrespect to CdP intended, many great wines there).

The high desert climate of WA just typically(typically, not always) produces wines that are bigger than I enjoy. I really, really don’t like thick or unctuous wines...key words being “I don’t like” which does not equal “they aren’t good”.

I also generally like more acidity, more
Nuance, and more structure than I see in most WA wines. There are definitely producers that I think do good work-Casey McClelland at Seven Hills, Sleight of
Hand, Woodward Canyon, Gramercy, and Andrew Will.

...and I sit on the board of of the Deep Roots Coalition, which is an organization committed to dry farming. I understand that there are some more dry farmed acreage in the works on the east side, and am excited to see what comes of that, but the majority of acreage is irrigated.

That said, Erica’s Chenin Blanc was delicious, and well within my style.
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Re: The Future of Oregon Wine: It Ain’t Pinot

#166 Post by Richard T r i m p i » August 6th, 2019, 9:08 am

Jared Wagner wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 2:13 pm
Erica Orr Makes a fantastic old vines Chenin in Washington. Lots of old world characteristics like smelly socks and mushroom. It runs about $25 and is worth every penny.
And again, one problem is that for $25 - $35 you can buy the real thing from most of the Loire's top producers.

RT

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