Mark Squires' BB to close for good - UPDATED (WA sold to Michelin)

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Eric LeVine
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#151 Post by Eric LeVine » July 4th, 2019, 2:52 pm

Jonathan Loesberg wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:48 pm
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:43 pm
hahaha, you guys need a life or 2

hypocrisy must be a touchy one when dancing on the WA/MS BB's grave when talking about $$$

a celebration of life would be more appropriate

add that to being offended or someone will be offended for you

cheers

PS. there is no regular programming anymore, Cronkite is history LOL
I shouldn't enter this exchange, as I have no part in it. And, since this post is its own best response, there is nothing to add.
I really have no idea what he is saying though. I think his politics differ from mine. I really can't tell.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#152 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 4th, 2019, 2:53 pm

Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:52 pm
Jonathan Loesberg wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:48 pm
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:43 pm
hahaha, you guys need a life or 2

hypocrisy must be a touchy one when dancing on the WA/MS BB's grave when talking about $$$

a celebration of life would be more appropriate

add that to being offended or someone will be offended for you

cheers

PS. there is no regular programming anymore, Cronkite is history LOL
I shouldn't enter this exchange, as I have no part in it. And, since this post is its own best response, there is nothing to add.
I really have no idea what he is saying though. I think his politics differ from mine. I really can't tell.
Eric, I am assuming English is not his first language so I am gonna leave this alone from now on.
I don't have to speak; she defends me

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#153 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 4th, 2019, 3:09 pm

Jonathan Loesberg wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:48 pm
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:43 pm
hahaha, you guys need a life or 2

hypocrisy must be a touchy one when dancing on the WA/MS BB's grave when talking about $$$

a celebration of life would be more appropriate

add that to being offended or someone will be offended for you

cheers

PS. there is no regular programming anymore, Cronkite is history LOL
I shouldn't enter this exchange, as I have no part in it. And, since this post is its own best response, there is nothing to add.
I will certainly not enter this exchange except to point out that you don’t need the comma in your first sentence. And, I am appalled that you began your second sentence with “And, ”.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#154 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 4th, 2019, 3:10 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 3:09 pm
Jonathan Loesberg wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:48 pm
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:43 pm
hahaha, you guys need a life or 2

hypocrisy must be a touchy one when dancing on the WA/MS BB's grave when talking about $$$

a celebration of life would be more appropriate

add that to being offended or someone will be offended for you

cheers

PS. there is no regular programming anymore, Cronkite is history LOL
I shouldn't enter this exchange, as I have no part in it. And, since this post is its own best response, there is nothing to add.
I will certainly not enter this exchange except to point out that you don’t need the comma in your first sentence. And, I am appalled that you began your second sentence with “And, ”.
Oh, wait. Wrong board! Sorry.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#155 Post by Russ Williams » July 4th, 2019, 3:17 pm

John Ammons wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 1:24 pm
One of the sillier things I recall about the Squires board was the enormous perceived importance of one's post count. You got a new moniker at a certain threshold, like from an "Executive Oenophile" to a "Senior Executive Oenophile". I want to say there was some ridiculous title of "Grand Poobah" if you had a crazy post count.

Then, after a software upgrade or something, people's post counts were magically reduced. Except Squires. His went unchanged. I think the explanation was Social Hall posts no longer counted for all but Squires. A bizarre slice of that little world!
A bizarre and very ego driven world. I had forgotten about this episode, so thanks for sharing as I had a good chuckle.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#156 Post by Gray G » July 4th, 2019, 3:34 pm

Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:46 pm
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:28 am
Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am
My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
sorry Eric,

CT is pay I believe, so this may be hypocritical

I don't get really understand why people are so cheap, and if someone isn't cheap, someone will be cheap for you

I like paying dues and being a member or subscriber to help float the boat, like some JFK quote I've heard for decades

Somehow now with socialists and socialism becoming in favor, it's all about gimme gimme gimme because i breath and type, like bums

I believe it's a 2 way street whether ITB or consumer and happily help WB, eRP, Vimuos, JD, as well or any other group board I'm on

all this crap about paying is just sad :(

cheers

and Happy 4th
I don't actually understand your point. Can you restate it please?

My point is that forcing people to pay (aka walled garden) guaranties a much smaller community. And in the case of CT, WB, eRP, so much of the value comes from the community. If you don't have critical mass, you wither and die. I was criticized by some eRP folks back in 2010 for making that point, but it was so obvious that their bulletin board and community were dead as soon as they went behind the pay wall. It just took 9 years for the zombie to know it was dead.

CT is a for-profit business. People do not make donations. They make voluntary payments: https://support.cellartracker.com/artic ... ry-payment
However, whether or not people pay, they can see and download all of the data of they have entered. They can see the community data.
Happy 4th Eric

LOL voluntary payments, please clarify.

Why not have a community that pays? It's a symbiotic thing isn't it that is most healthy?

I thought you made the point here on WB that you called the death of the BB based on the pay wall.

You are a very smart guy and you have many folks who trust your opinion in the wine world of business.

Why is paying such a bad thing and at the time did your you opinion at the time contribute to that mindset???

Of course CT has fees and I happily support you with my money

all issues are not black and white or binary as you know.

I'd love to hear how any business discussions went with you and the WA, LOL

Thank you

Happy 4th
my friends call me Gary, so much time, so little wine, Albanista, K Vinters rocks! MCK, Cattle King, love Gri3v3 Family wines Double Eagle baby! flavors please, non-religious freedom :) egalitarian, non-socialist, non-ITB, paid subscriber of online chat, Going Beserk everyday! "life's not black and white but black and grey"- Graham Greene

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#157 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » July 4th, 2019, 3:40 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 3:09 pm
Jonathan Loesberg wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:48 pm
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 2:43 pm
hahaha, you guys need a life or 2

hypocrisy must be a touchy one when dancing on the WA/MS BB's grave when talking about $$$

a celebration of life would be more appropriate

add that to being offended or someone will be offended for you

cheers

PS. there is no regular programming anymore, Cronkite is history LOL
I shouldn't enter this exchange, as I have no part in it. And, since this post is its own best response, there is nothing to add.
I will certainly not enter this exchange except to point out that you don’t need the comma in your first sentence. And, I am appalled that you began your second sentence with “And, ”.
Commas separate independent clauses from dependent clauses regardless of their order within the sentence. And as to beginning a sentence with and, this is the kind of nonsense up with which I will not put.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#158 Post by jcoley3 » July 4th, 2019, 4:02 pm

ybarselah wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 7:58 am
Jeremy C wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 11:59 am
Thanks, guys. Brad touched on what I had previously gathered to be a possible advantage it had over this one; namely, that there was more ITB participation.
there's a strange culture on this board that treats all ITB folks as a combo of the enemy, shilling, ulterior motives, etc. It's odd to say the least given that with very few exceptions, it's a rather familial group that is inherently interested in sharing and learning. i don't remember if it was materially different there, but regardless, this community would benefit from a more open culture from the "other side." a perfect example is the premier cru subject. i have no doubt that more people could have avoided losses had this community been a more accepting place for ITB.
What you're describing sounds more like the Parker board than here. Many of the posts in the PC thread that are as described came from EBob vets who brought that culture with them. The effect of the old saw that "ITB people are just jealous of the magic pricing that only PC gets" was amplified by a board where people close to Parker were PC fans and anyone raising questions was immediately scorned simply for being ITB. Speaking for myself, I stayed away from those threads over there and was willing to point out some obvious inconsistencies here.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#159 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 4th, 2019, 4:07 pm

Gray-put down the shovel.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#160 Post by Arv R » July 4th, 2019, 5:03 pm

Russ Williams wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 3:17 pm
John Ammons wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 1:24 pm
One of the sillier things I recall about the Squires board was the enormous perceived importance of one's post count. You got a new moniker at a certain threshold, like from an "Executive Oenophile" to a "Senior Executive Oenophile". I want to say there was some ridiculous title of "Grand Poobah" if you had a crazy post count.

Then, after a software upgrade or something, people's post counts were magically reduced. Except Squires. His went unchanged. I think the explanation was Social Hall posts no longer counted for all but Squires. A bizarre slice of that little world!
A bizarre and very ego driven world. I had forgotten about this episode, so thanks for sharing as I had a good chuckle.
It was also sad how Ms. Feiring was persecuted and eventually excommunicated there.
20CLOSE2-articleLarge.jpg
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#161 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 4th, 2019, 5:06 pm

On the list of eBob crimes that is so far down the list as to be irrelevant.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#162 Post by Dan Kravitz » July 4th, 2019, 5:12 pm

Horse dead, I keep beating it:

To Gray G:

As I think Eric made very clear:
1) CellarTracker is free.
2) Eric encourages voluntary payments so he can earn his living.
3) Eric makes CellarTracker free to encourage the widest possible involvement of the wine community.

It's as easy as 1-2-3, and it works.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#163 Post by Ed Steinway » July 4th, 2019, 5:35 pm

I have subscribed to the WA since 1996 and have been a member of the BB since 2002. My subscription is up for renewal at the end of the month, and I will not renew. As much as I enjoy the reviews of William and Monica, it is time. Even though the closing of the Bulletin Board was inevitable, it was the tipping point for me to not want to renew. No hard feelings, but it is time. I learned so much from that Board, about different regions, about different wines, and about the wine business, and I met a lot of great people through that Board. I appreciate Mark for keeping it open for so many years, but closing the Board to members only really deprived the Board of a lot of relevant voices, IMO. I really appreciate Todd and everyone here who keep this Board thriving.

Ed

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#164 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 4th, 2019, 6:52 pm

Arv R wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 5:03 pm
Russ Williams wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 3:17 pm
John Ammons wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 1:24 pm
One of the sillier things I recall about the Squires board was the enormous perceived importance of one's post count. You got a new moniker at a certain threshold, like from an "Executive Oenophile" to a "Senior Executive Oenophile". I want to say there was some ridiculous title of "Grand Poobah" if you had a crazy post count.

Then, after a software upgrade or something, people's post counts were magically reduced. Except Squires. His went unchanged. I think the explanation was Social Hall posts no longer counted for all but Squires. A bizarre slice of that little world!
A bizarre and very ego driven world. I had forgotten about this episode, so thanks for sharing as I had a good chuckle.
It was also sad how Ms. Feiring was persecuted and eventually excommunicated there.

20CLOSE2-articleLarge.jpg
Maybe Alice will comment here, but my understanding is Alice's community from early days was really the NY wine scene that originated the strong push in the US for low sulphur wines, which morphed over time into “natural” wines. I.e., the LDM crowd and David Lillie, etc. eBob was not a good fit. Whether you agree with her or not, she’s done just fine for herself I’d say.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#165 Post by Eric LeVine » July 4th, 2019, 9:15 pm

Dan Kravitz wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 5:12 pm
Horse dead, I keep beating it:

To Gray G:

As I think Eric made very clear:
1) CellarTracker is free.
2) Eric encourages voluntary payments so he can earn his living.
3) Eric makes CellarTracker free to encourage the widest possible involvement of the wine community.

It's as easy as 1-2-3, and it works.

Dan Kravitz
I can't really say it any better than that.
-Eric LeVine (ITB)
It rhymes with wine...

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#166 Post by ybarselah » July 5th, 2019, 8:11 am

Dan Kravitz wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 4:15 pm
ybarselah wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 7:58 am
Jeremy C wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 11:59 am
Thanks, guys. Brad touched on what I had previously gathered to be a possible advantage it had over this one; namely, that there was more ITB participation.
there's a strange culture on this board that treats all ITB folks as a combo of the enemy, shilling, ulterior motives, etc. It's odd to say the least given that with very few exceptions, it's a rather familial group that is inherently interested in sharing and learning. i don't remember if it was materially different there, but regardless, this community would benefit from a more open culture from the "other side." a perfect example is the premier cru subject. i have no doubt that more people could have avoided losses had this community been a more accepting place for ITB.
Yaacov,

I was quite surprised by your post. I am blatantly ITB and I have never noticed any hostility from anybody here (with the exception of one ex-Parker board member, a person who recently posted, reiterating some old obsessions, one of which is that I am a criminal because Domaine du Pegau labels Cuvee Reservee as 14% alcohol). I try to be polite on the board, which does not come naturally. Also transparent, which does. I know some of my posts have been controversial, but I have met with nothing but courtesy. I am grateful for this board.

Dan Kravitz
well, yes it should completely be surprising if your only experience is your own. if you spend some time in NYC, and speak with dozens of ITB folks here, you'll see a very different perspective, i doubt it's limited to NYC. i'm happy your singular experience is positive, as is mine generally (i'm tangentially ITB), but on a regular basis, i run into folks that are here lurking but would NEVER post anything.

Again, the Premier Cru thread is likely the best example here; you would be hard pressed to run into anyone involved in wine and the subject not come up and the massive thread on this board.
Last edited by ybarselah on July 5th, 2019, 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#167 Post by Markus S » July 5th, 2019, 8:17 am

ybarselah wrote:
July 5th, 2019, 8:11 am
Dan Kravitz wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 4:15 pm
ybarselah wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 7:58 am


there's a strange culture on this board that treats all ITB folks as a combo of the enemy, shilling, ulterior motives, etc. It's odd to say the least given that with very few exceptions, it's a rather familial group that is inherently interested in sharing and learning. i don't remember if it was materially different there, but regardless, this community would benefit from a more open culture from the "other side." a perfect example is the premier cru subject. i have no doubt that more people could have avoided losses had this community been a more accepting place for ITB.
Yaacov,

I was quite surprised by your post. I am blatantly ITB and I have never noticed any hostility from anybody here (with the exception of one ex-Parker board member, a person who recently posted, reiterating some old obsessions, one of which is that I am a criminal because Domaine du Pegau labels Cuvee Reservee as 14% alcohol). I try to be polite on the board, which does not come naturally. Also transparent, which does. I know some of my posts have been controversial, but I have met with nothing but courtesy. I am grateful for this board.

Dan Kravitz
well, yes it should completely be surprising if your only experience is your own. if you spend some time in NYC, and speak with dozens of ITB folks here, you'll see a very different perspective, i doubt it's limited to NYC. i'm happy your singular experience is positive, as is mine generally (i'm tangentially ITB), but on a regular basis, i run into folks that are here lurking but would NEVER post anything.
I really don't understand this entire thread spew, but perhaps it comes from ITB folks being less-than-honest when presenting themselves? Dan has been above board saying what he does, others, less so and it looks suspicious from where I sit. Why run-around things? Simply state "i retail the wines", I import them", "I own a wine investment fund" and people will have no problem with your posting. Come across as coy and trying to outsmart us or for commercial reasons and you will be excoriated. No simpler way to put it.
$ _ € ® e . k @

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#168 Post by ybarselah » July 5th, 2019, 8:20 am

Markus S wrote:
July 5th, 2019, 8:17 am

I really don't understand this entire thread spew, but perhaps it comes from ITB folks being less-than-honest when presenting themselves? Dan has been above board saying what he does, others, less so and it looks suspicious from where I sit. Why run-around things? Simply state "i retail the wines", I import them", "I own a wine investment fund" and people will have no problem with your posting. Come across as coy and trying to outsmart us or for commercial reasons and you will be excoriated. No simpler way to put it.
Markus - you, i assume inadvertently, did a brilliant job of proving my point.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#169 Post by Markus S » July 5th, 2019, 9:35 am

ybarselah wrote:
July 5th, 2019, 8:20 am
Markus S wrote:
July 5th, 2019, 8:17 am

I really don't understand this entire thread spew, but perhaps it comes from ITB folks being less-than-honest when presenting themselves? Dan has been above board saying what he does, others, less so and it looks suspicious from where I sit. Why run-around things? Simply state "i retail the wines", I import them", "I own a wine investment fund" and people will have no problem with your posting. Come across as coy and trying to outsmart us or for commercial reasons and you will be excoriated. No simpler way to put it.
Markus - you, i assume inadvertently, did a brilliant job of proving my point.
Thank a you! I'll take my bow now. [bow.gif]
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#170 Post by jcoley3 » July 5th, 2019, 9:57 am

ybarselah wrote:
July 5th, 2019, 8:11 am
i'm happy your singular experience is positive, as is mine generally (i'm tangentially ITB), but on a regular basis, i run into folks that are here lurking but would NEVER post anything.
WHAT'S YOUR HIDDEN AGENDA, THO'!?!
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#171 Post by Brady Daniels » July 5th, 2019, 12:29 pm

I’m not sure about ITB'ers in general, but I feel that there are far fewer posts from winemakers here than five to ten years ago.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#172 Post by Steve Manzi » July 5th, 2019, 1:00 pm

Dan Kravitz wrote:
July 2nd, 2019, 6:21 pm
I was an early member and frequent poster on the Parker / Squires board. I think at one point I was in the top 5 (or at least top 10) for number of posts. I found it an incredible resource for wine lovers. While this board certainly has (now) a broader reach, I think the combination of breadth and depth to the Parker board at its best was incomparable.

I met Mark Squires multiple times. I know one should not speak ill of the dead, but I found Mark Squires to be dead the first time I met him and he never came to life. Dour, dull, humorless (which he tried to disguise with his shirts), prissy, priggish, fussy, frustrated, rigid, censorious... I probably should not post this, but I think it may well have been him rather than Parker who killed the board. He is obviously not stupid, but he apparently set his sights on a job with Parker, achieved that goal, but I do not think it made him happy. Happy is not a word I would associate with Mark Squires. It makes me sad just to think of him. A sad end to what was once an excellent enterprise.

I am deeply grateful for this board. I am not on it very often, but enjoy both the tone and the wealth of information it offers.

Dan Kravitz
Perfectly stated.

And those that liked squires and still like him or try to support him, are just like him. Dour, dull, humorless, etc.

And it was definitely Him that destroyed the board. Parker just "allowed" it, which is on him forever. I thought the world of Bob, until he showed that he had NO backbone, and only wanted to drink, eat and post while drunk too much. He made the fatal mistake of teaming up with someone he thought had the ability to protect him. It backfired horribly.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#173 Post by todd waldmann » July 5th, 2019, 6:23 pm

Squires' BB was an information goldmine for someone with a budding wine obsession. When it was at its peak, I couldn't get enough. It started dying well before the paywall went up. The death began when Squires began "managing" the board arbitrarily and vindictively. The paywall merely accelerated the exodus of participants.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#174 Post by Frank Murray III » July 5th, 2019, 6:41 pm

Todd French, I know you don't dig the limelight and always give me s##t when I pay you the complement, but without you and what we all started here in 2009, many of us would be screwed for wine talk and meeting so many cool people in this hobby. Keep doing your ENTJ, man. [training.gif]
My WOTY candidates for 2019:
2014 Marie Courtin Eloquence BdB Extra Brut
2017 Rivers-Marie PN Platt SC
2017 Kutch Pinot Noir SC PN
2009 Roederer Cristal Brut
2017 Carlisle Zin Mancini Ranch RRV

My best wines of 2018:
2017 Kutch Falstaff Sonoma Coast PN
2012 Marguet La Grande Ruelle Ambonnay

Kindness matters.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#175 Post by Arv R » July 6th, 2019, 6:27 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 5:06 pm
On the list of eBob crimes that is so far down the list as to be irrelevant.
What do you think is the #1 eBob crime?

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#176 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 6th, 2019, 6:30 pm

Closing the board to non-subscribers.

Your crimes are moving up though.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#177 Post by David Glasser » July 7th, 2019, 4:59 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 6:30 pm
Closing the board to non-subscribers.
Agree, if asked to point out their biggest mistake, this would be it.

Number 2: not replacing Mark Squires with a more professional moderator when he proved incapable of moderating.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#178 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » July 7th, 2019, 5:18 pm

David Glasser wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 4:59 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 6:30 pm
Closing the board to non-subscribers.
Agree, if asked to point out their biggest mistake, this would be it.

Number 2: not replacing Mark Squires with a more professional moderator when he proved incapable of moderating.
Professional moderator, does Todd know about this concept?

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#179 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 7th, 2019, 6:25 pm

Fu sure he does.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#180 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » July 7th, 2019, 7:59 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 12:14 pm
Brad Kane wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 11:53 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 11:48 am
Is it welcoming now? Seems quite clicky, but I get that it fills a niche for some.
It's still clicky and, unfortunately, not as vital as it once was as few of its most valuable participants and friends of mine, have died.
But on the positive side it’s not as clicky and idiosyncratic as Todd experienced after Squires booted him but before starting WB - here is the Todd meets Dressner and crew thread I’d never seen before today:

http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/1063/

Out of context, this is bat-shit crazy.
That thread gave me a headache. The few other times I’ve visited, I’ve found Wine Disorder to be too cute by half.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#181 Post by Jim Brennan » July 7th, 2019, 10:05 pm

David Glasser wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 4:59 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
July 6th, 2019, 6:30 pm
Closing the board to non-subscribers.
Agree, if asked to point out their biggest mistake, this would be it.

Number 2: not replacing Mark Squires with a more professional moderator when he proved incapable of moderating.
David, it's a mistake to think that way. All of the editing, time outs, and bans... don't confuse yourself, Parker was step for step with Squires on all of that. So there is no choice for a more professional moderate, because you have to realize that he was a willing quisling, and Parker was calling the shots.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#182 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 8th, 2019, 12:22 am

Sc0tt F!tzger@ld wrote:
July 7th, 2019, 7:59 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 12:14 pm
Brad Kane wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 11:53 am


It's still clicky and, unfortunately, not as vital as it once was as few of its most valuable participants and friends of mine, have died.
But on the positive side it’s not as clicky and idiosyncratic as Todd experienced after Squires booted him but before starting WB - here is the Todd meets Dressner and crew thread I’d never seen before today:

http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/1063/

Out of context, this is bat-shit crazy.
That thread gave me a headache. The few other times I’ve visited, I’ve found Wine Disorder to be too cute by half.
To each his/her own. I like it just fine.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#183 Post by Ken V » July 10th, 2019, 7:06 am

Dan Kravitz wrote:
July 2nd, 2019, 6:21 pm
I was an early member and frequent poster on the Parker / Squires board. I think at one point I was in the top 5 (or at least top 10) for number of posts. I found it an incredible resource for wine lovers. While this board certainly has (now) a broader reach, I think the combination of breadth and depth to the Parker board at its best was incomparable.

I met Mark Squires multiple times. I know one should not speak ill of the dead, but I found Mark Squires to be dead the first time I met him and he never came to life. Dour, dull, humorless (which he tried to disguise with his shirts), prissy, priggish, fussy, frustrated, rigid, censorious... I probably should not post this, but I think it may well have been him rather than Parker who killed the board. He is obviously not stupid, but he apparently set his sights on a job with Parker, achieved that goal, but I do not think it made him happy. Happy is not a word I would associate with Mark Squires. It makes me sad just to think of him. A sad end to what was once an excellent enterprise.

I am deeply grateful for this board. I am not on it very often, but enjoy both the tone and the wealth of information it offers.

Dan Kravitz
Well said, Dan.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#184 Post by Ken V » July 10th, 2019, 7:13 am

Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:28 am
Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am
My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
Eric LeVine wrote: During my personal wine evolution over the past decade, I have been a very active participant on a number of wine bulletin boards. In fact this is what led me to create CellarTracker as I saw other people struggling with how to manage their own wine collections and tasting notes. The original board where I cut my proverbial teeth was the Mark Squires Bulletin Board at eRobertParker.com, a once very vibrant community loaded with remarkably knowledgeable collectors, winemakers and industry people. I met many very close friends as a direct consequence of my participation there. I am very sad to say that, as of this week, that board has been closed unless you pay $100/year for an eRobertParker subscription. I am very thankful to Bob and Mark for all they have done, but the value of a bulletin board or a site like CellarTracker is not based on who hosts it but rather the critical mass of knowledge and active contributors. By converting that board to a “walled garden” ala AOL circa 1995, this represents a truly profound loss for the consumer and the wine industry as a whole. (snip)

Yes, this is a eulogy. RIP eRP BB.
sorry Eric,

CT is pay I believe, so this may be hypocritical

I don't get really understand why people are so cheap, and if someone isn't cheap, someone will be cheap for you

I like paying dues and being a member or subscriber to help float the boat, like some JFK quote I've heard for decades

Somehow now with socialists and socialism becoming in favor, it's all about gimme gimme gimme because i breath and type, like bums

I believe it's a 2 way street whether ITB or consumer and happily help WB, eRP, Vimuos, JD, as well or any other group board I'm on

all this crap about paying is just sad :(

cheers

and Happy 4th
I nominate this for the Worst Post of Year Award. Being wrong about CT and politics all in one post. The ignorance is strong with this one.

Note that I contribute the full amount to CT and still pay for erp and others.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#185 Post by Pat Martin » July 10th, 2019, 8:09 am

Ken V wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 7:13 am
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:28 am
Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am
My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
sorry Eric,

CT is pay I believe, so this may be hypocritical

I don't get really understand why people are so cheap, and if someone isn't cheap, someone will be cheap for you

I like paying dues and being a member or subscriber to help float the boat, like some JFK quote I've heard for decades

Somehow now with socialists and socialism becoming in favor, it's all about gimme gimme gimme because i breath and type, like bums

I believe it's a 2 way street whether ITB or consumer and happily help WB, eRP, Vimuos, JD, as well or any other group board I'm on

all this crap about paying is just sad :(

cheers

and Happy 4th
I nominate this for the Worst Post of Year Award. Being wrong about CT and politics all in one post. The ignorance is strong with this one.

Note that I contribute the full amount to CT and still pay for erp and others.
I second this motion.
P@ tr!ck M 8rt!n

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#186 Post by A.Gillette » July 10th, 2019, 8:43 am

Parker was brilliant to close his board to non-subscribers and to have Squires run the board like a tyrant. I mean, it sucked for those of us who were non-subscribers or didn't line up with his wine preferences, but the dude sold his company for $15M by positioning himself as the supreme arbiter of taste in wine and drowning out dissent. Doesn't seem like a bad business decision to me.
A
Alex

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#187 Post by Victor Hong » July 10th, 2019, 9:41 am

A.Gillette wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:43 am
Parker was brilliant to close his board to non-subscribers and to have Squires run the board like a tyrant. I mean, it sucked for those of us who were non-subscribers or didn't line up with his wine preferences, but the dude sold his company for $15M by positioning himself as the supreme arbiter of taste in wine and drowning out dissent. Doesn't seem like a bad business decision to me.
A
Not entirely consistent with his espoused role to serve wine consumers in an independent, transparent, and ethical manner.
WineHunter.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#188 Post by Doug Schulman » July 10th, 2019, 10:00 am

Ken V wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 7:13 am
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:28 am
Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am
My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
sorry Eric,

CT is pay I believe, so this may be hypocritical

I don't get really understand why people are so cheap, and if someone isn't cheap, someone will be cheap for you

I like paying dues and being a member or subscriber to help float the boat, like some JFK quote I've heard for decades

Somehow now with socialists and socialism becoming in favor, it's all about gimme gimme gimme because i breath and type, like bums

I believe it's a 2 way street whether ITB or consumer and happily help WB, eRP, Vimuos, JD, as well or any other group board I'm on

all this crap about paying is just sad :(

cheers

and Happy 4th
I nominate this for the Worst Post of Year Award. Being wrong about CT and politics all in one post. The ignorance is strong with this one.
It's a great candidate, along with GregP's nonsensical trolling in the Georgia thread and elsewhere.
ITB - retail sales and education

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#189 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » July 10th, 2019, 10:26 am

Victor Hong wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 9:41 am
A.Gillette wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:43 am
Parker was brilliant to close his board to non-subscribers and to have Squires run the board like a tyrant. I mean, it sucked for those of us who were non-subscribers or didn't line up with his wine preferences, but the dude sold his company for $15M by positioning himself as the supreme arbiter of taste in wine and drowning out dissent. Doesn't seem like a bad business decision to me.
A
Not entirely consistent with his espoused role to serve wine consumers in an independent, transparent, and ethical manner.
Alas there is no inconsistency with expressing one's own views without having any financial connection with those whom one reviews and being thin-skinned, tyrannical, pompous and unable to deal with opposing views, or with making good business decisions and ending up with a fortune.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#190 Post by A.Gillette » July 10th, 2019, 10:46 am

Victor Hong wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 9:41 am
A.Gillette wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:43 am
Parker was brilliant to close his board to non-subscribers and to have Squires run the board like a tyrant. I mean, it sucked for those of us who were non-subscribers or didn't line up with his wine preferences, but the dude sold his company for $15M by positioning himself as the supreme arbiter of taste in wine and drowning out dissent. Doesn't seem like a bad business decision to me.
A
Not entirely consistent with his espoused role to serve wine consumers in an independent, transparent, and ethical manner.
As long as he sincerely believed what he was saying (and I see no reason to believe that he didn't), I don't see how it is unethical, or how it lacked independence or transparency. Inconsiderate and narrow, maybe. But unethical? He wanted a board for people who viewed wine in the same way as him.
A
Alex

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#191 Post by Keith Levenberg » July 10th, 2019, 11:09 am

A.Gillette wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:43 am
Parker was brilliant to close his board to non-subscribers and to have Squires run the board like a tyrant. I mean, it sucked for those of us who were non-subscribers or didn't line up with his wine preferences, but the dude sold his company for $15M by positioning himself as the supreme arbiter of taste in wine and drowning out dissent. Doesn't seem like a bad business decision to me.
A
How many millions more could he have gotten without destroying the goodwill of so many ex-admirers?

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#192 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » July 10th, 2019, 11:27 am

Ken V wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 6:35 pm
Robert M yers wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 12:03 pm
What’s going to happen to MyWines?
[rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif]
I had completely forgotten about MyWines! Did it ever launch?
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#193 Post by Jay Miller » July 10th, 2019, 11:53 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 11:27 am
Ken V wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 6:35 pm
Robert M yers wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 12:03 pm
What’s going to happen to MyWines?
[rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif]
I had completely forgotten about MyWines! Did it ever launch?
Any day now...
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#194 Post by A.Gillette » July 10th, 2019, 12:44 pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 11:09 am
A.Gillette wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:43 am
Parker was brilliant to close his board to non-subscribers and to have Squires run the board like a tyrant. I mean, it sucked for those of us who were non-subscribers or didn't line up with his wine preferences, but the dude sold his company for $15M by positioning himself as the supreme arbiter of taste in wine and drowning out dissent. Doesn't seem like a bad business decision to me.
A
How many millions more could he have gotten without destroying the goodwill of so many ex-admirers?
Hard to speculate what would have happened. I'd guess I'd say given the proliferation of wine writers over the last few years and democratization of wine criticism, anything Parker could do to preserve his empire probably bought him time and helped make him money. I suppose it could have gone the other way, but I wouldn't be willing to bet my own $15MM on it.
A
Alex

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#195 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » July 10th, 2019, 1:28 pm

I don't see how Parker could have done better than he did and that he did that well has little to do with his handling of the board. From the 90s on, it was clear that what Parker envisioned was an heir apparent, to whom he would turn over the magazine, hoping it would keep its subscription base. The financial arrangement those two would have might have run a range from an outright saie to the heir apparent taking over with a salary and part ownership leaving Parker with an ongoing income. This arrangement imagines TWA as like a medical practice or a vineyard, with an inherent value dependent upon that value being kept up. In the event, a buyer fell into his lap who wanted to change the magazine into a much larger kind of brand and was willing to pay handsomely for the right to use the reputation in that way. Without taking away from what he achieved, there was a considerable stroke of luck here and one that was not very consequent on the board staying open and civil, or open and bilious as opposed to closed and dull. It hardly matters that their investment may not have paid off (I have no idea whether it has or hasn't) since no matter what happened, he couldn't have come out better, really.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#196 Post by Mark Rushton » July 10th, 2019, 1:47 pm

Glad to see this happen. I stopped paper when they screwed access and that was the jump the shark moment. Good riddance.

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#197 Post by GregT » July 10th, 2019, 2:09 pm

The anti-ITB sentiment originated in Parker's branding of himself as the "no conflicts of interest" consumer crusader. Loads of nobodies on his board decided that the way to raise their status and be somebodies was to act like they were Parker's little deputies, like Parker was going to personally award them a badge and a bottle of SQN for every snarky post along the lines of, "you don't happen to sell that wine, do you?" There was a lot of desperation for the Big Man's approval. And a lot of genuine hero-worshiping folks who just wanted to bask in a few rays of his glory.
That's an overlooked observation but it's true. There was so much ass-kissing it was kind of sick. Anything to get the great man's approval, like puppies waiting for a pat on the head.

While the Mark Squires board was pretty lively before the link up, one of the reasons that board became what it was had simply to do with Parker's participation. As the biggest critic and reviewer in the US, he had enormous drawing power. Maybe some ITB hoped that their participation would generate higher scores - I don't know and never really thought so, because he had his faves and that was that.

As far as Alice being a "crime" on that board, that's a bit much. She was so desperate to get some attention from somewhere she wrote a book describing her hallucinatory experience "saving" the world from Parker. Getting him to respond to her was designed to generate publicity for her. I don't blame them for banning someone who sets herself up to be a deliberate irritation. And notwithstanding the fact that she claims to have been a major influence in the wine world, it isn't true. We can claim all we want for ourselves - Parker claimed to be a super-taster and to remember every single wine he ever tasted. Claims don't create facts.

I don't know that there's a bias against people ITB on this board, or at least I've never seen it other than the self-righteous clowns who berate people for not including "ITB" in their sig line, as if that's some kind of moral imperative. But as far as participation, while it's always nice, this isn't 2001 and with things like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and whatever else, maybe there's just not enough time in the day to devote to business and to all the various social media. So I'm just grateful when anyone ITB is willing to share some insights and thoughts.

I do wonder what happens to the WA crew though - there can't be enough revenue to sustain that staff for long.
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#198 Post by Robert M yers » July 10th, 2019, 2:44 pm

I was thinking back and remembered that around the time of discord at Squires and Wine Spectator I also joined a board called WinoDepot. I was there for some time before migrating here, but I can’t remember the details of its rise and fast demise. I’m still in a fantasy baseball group with a dozen or so of the original guys from there though I don’t think any really post here? Does anybody remember that forum?

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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#199 Post by Mark.Ricca » July 10th, 2019, 4:27 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 9:04 am
Jörgen Lindström Carlvik wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 8:57 am
@toddfrench
He's welcome to register and post here!!! I won't boot him out like he did to me [cheers.gif]
Why did he boot you? Curious:)
[/quote]
I posted an avatar of the sign shown below. He pulled my ability to post my own avatar, I argued with him about it, as it wasn't outlined as a rule in his TOS, he banned me forever. That's the short version :)

Image
[/quote]

I remember that distinctly. Also all the flak between he and Bob Wood.
My avatar got me banned for a time because Scott Manlin had given MS the sobriquet Mao in a very unflattering way and it totally chapped Squires ass.

IIRC just about everything said here is true. Met all of the folks here over there at one point or another.
Not surprised at all that it is tanking.
ITB
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Re: Mark Squires' BB to close for good

#200 Post by Gray G » July 10th, 2019, 6:41 pm

Ken V wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 7:13 am
Gray G wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 10:28 am
Eric LeVine wrote:
July 4th, 2019, 9:17 am
My newsletter from 4/29/2010 is apropos: https://www.cellartracker.com/classic/n ... 9-2010.htm
sorry Eric,

CT is pay I believe, so this may be hypocritical

I don't get really understand why people are so cheap, and if someone isn't cheap, someone will be cheap for you

I like paying dues and being a member or subscriber to help float the boat, like some JFK quote I've heard for decades

Somehow now with socialists and socialism becoming in favor, it's all about gimme gimme gimme because i breath and type, like bums

I believe it's a 2 way street whether ITB or consumer and happily help WB, eRP, Vimuos, JD, as well or any other group board I'm on

all this crap about paying is just sad :(

cheers

and Happy 4th
I nominate this for the Worst Post of Year Award. Being wrong about CT and politics all in one post. The ignorance is strong with this one.

Note that I contribute the full amount to CT and still pay for erp and others.
[politics removed by admin]
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