What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

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Howard Cooper
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#51 Post by Howard Cooper » June 8th, 2019, 4:58 pm

If we limit the very top vineyards for reds in Burgundy to Romanee Conti, la Tache, Musigny, Richebourg, Romanee St. Vivant, Grands Echezeaux, Chambertin and Clos de Beze, IMHO, the best value in wine from any of these vineyards is Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin. https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/dom+ ... rt_order=e Excellent producer, but the wines take a long time to mature. I have had the 1998, 1990 and 2001 a number of times and none are really mature, although each are excellent. I have tasted at the domaine four times now and the wines are consistently excellent. [As of about three years ago, the 2001 Chambertin was still available at the domaine for 175 Euros, a price that includes the VAT. Do not know if it is still available there.]

The 2001 Latricieres Chambertin (excellent grand cru vineyard but not a "top end" vineyard, depending on what that means) from them is drinking wonderfully right now.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#52 Post by Mark Golodetz » June 8th, 2019, 6:20 pm

Also a fan of Rossignol Trapet, one of the few bargains left in Burgundy. However I prefer the Trapet wines which have more depth, and are still within Jay’s price range.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#53 Post by Gerhard P. » June 9th, 2019, 1:33 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 4:58 pm
If we limit the very top vineyards for reds in Burgundy to Romanee Conti, la Tache, Musigny, Richebourg, Romanee St. Vivant, Grands Echezeaux, Chambertin and Clos de Beze, IMHO, the best value in wine from any of these vineyards is Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin.
...
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#54 Post by paul hanna » June 9th, 2019, 4:35 am

Faiveley Musigny is the rarest, and possible most underrated of the "top end non DRC" reds.

Fantastic quality, very rare (half the production of Roumier's Musigny) and, compared to many others, could really still be considered to be under priced....

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#55 Post by Howard Cooper » June 9th, 2019, 4:48 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
June 9th, 2019, 1:33 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 4:58 pm
If we limit the very top vineyards for reds in Burgundy to Romanee Conti, la Tache, Musigny, Richebourg, Romanee St. Vivant, Grands Echezeaux, Chambertin and Clos de Beze, IMHO, the best value in wine from any of these vineyards is Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin.
...
You´ve forgotten La Romanée ... ! flirtysmile
I know that you really enjoy correcting everyone, but in the context of this thread, what would have been the purpose of discussing la Romanee. If he does not want to pay for DRC, I did not think he would want to pay for la Romanee. Do you? The purpose of my post was to suggest what I think of as the best value in the type of wines Jay's friend is seeking. Of what possible relevance is your post in the context of the point of my post?
Last edited by Howard Cooper on June 9th, 2019, 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#56 Post by Howard Cooper » June 9th, 2019, 4:55 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 6:20 pm
Also a fan of Rossignol Trapet, one of the few bargains left in Burgundy. However I prefer the Trapet wines which have more depth, and are still within Jay’s price range.
I know a lot of people agree with you and love the wines from Trapet. For me, when I have tasted them, I have found that they are not really my style - among other things I have found them for me to be too oaky. As is often the case, when I don't really like a producer's wines that much on first brush, I don't seek them out further and thus do not have nearly the experience with the wines of Trapet as I do of the wines from Rossignol-Trapet.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#57 Post by Gerhard P. » June 10th, 2019, 7:32 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
June 9th, 2019, 4:48 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
June 9th, 2019, 1:33 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 4:58 pm
If we limit the very top vineyards for reds in Burgundy to Romanee Conti, la Tache, Musigny, Richebourg, Romanee St. Vivant, Grands Echezeaux, Chambertin and Clos de Beze, IMHO, the best value in wine from any of these vineyards is Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin.
...
You´ve forgotten La Romanée ... ! flirtysmile
I know that you really enjoy correcting everyone, but in the context of this thread, what would have been the purpose of discussing la Romanee. If he does not want to pay for DRC, I did not think he would want to pay for la Romanee. Do you? The purpose of my post was to suggest what I think of as the best value in the type of wines Jay's friend is seeking. Of what possible relevance is your post in the context of the point of my post?
No, no - you wrote: "If we limit the very top vineyards for reds in Burgundy to Romanee Conti, la Tache, Musigny, Richebourg, Romanee St. Vivant, Grands Echezeaux, Chambertin and Clos de Beze,"

... in my humble opinion La Romanée belongs to the very top vineyards (that was my statement).
If he doesn´t want to pay for DRC it´s no use to list La Tache either, less so RC ...

However I agree that Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin is a good value ... but there are other ones, for instance several RSV or GE ...
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#58 Post by Eric Egan » June 10th, 2019, 8:58 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 7:32 am

However I agree that Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin is a good value ... but there are other ones, for instance several RSV or GE ...
Yes - there are definitely still some good value wines from GE. I had a a Jean-Marc Millot Grands-Echezeaux 1997 recently that was shockingly good for the price and vintage.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#59 Post by Gerhard P. » June 10th, 2019, 9:07 am

Eric Egan wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 8:58 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 7:32 am

However I agree that Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin is a good value ... but there are other ones, for instance several RSV or GE ...
Yes - there are definitely still some good value wines from GE. I had a a Jean-Marc Millot Grands-Echezeaux 1997 recently that was shockingly good for the price and vintage.
Right - I had the Echezeaux (not the GE) 1997 earlier this year ... and it was definitely excellent - and in a very good state of maturity.
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Re: What's the nest top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#60 Post by Dave McCloskey » June 10th, 2019, 9:22 am

Jay Miller wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 11:40 am
Aside from the excellent suggestions above you might try Liger Belair. My experience is limited to their VR Reignots.

edited to add: I see Eric ninja'ed me on the LB suggestion.
The 2015 vintage are going anywhere from $4K - $8K according to Wine Searcher.

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Re: What's the nest top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#61 Post by Jay Miller » June 10th, 2019, 10:58 am

Dave McCloskey wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 9:22 am
Jay Miller wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 11:40 am
Aside from the excellent suggestions above you might try Liger Belair. My experience is limited to their VR Reignots.

edited to add: I see Eric ninja'ed me on the LB suggestion.
The 2015 vintage are going anywhere from $4K - $8K according to Wine Searcher.
Wow, last time I looked it sold for $500-600. That wasn't too long ago.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#62 Post by A Songeur » June 10th, 2019, 11:53 am

paul hanna wrote:
June 9th, 2019, 4:35 am
Faiveley Musigny is the rarest, and possible most underrated of the "top end non DRC" reds.

Fantastic quality, very rare (half the production of Roumier's Musigny) and, compared to many others, could really still be considered to be under priced....
Faiveley bought the Dufouleur plot which allowed it to triple its area. I don't know how it will impact the quality but the Dufouleur was not a great Musigny with Dufouleur admitting their Clos Vougeot was better than the Musigny most years.

Anyway, the new version will not drink well for the next 20 years, I assume (excluding infanticides)
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Re: What's the nest top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#63 Post by Dave McCloskey » June 10th, 2019, 12:13 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 10:58 am
Dave McCloskey wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 9:22 am
Jay Miller wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 11:40 am
Aside from the excellent suggestions above you might try Liger Belair. My experience is limited to their VR Reignots.

edited to add: I see Eric ninja'ed me on the LB suggestion.
The 2015 vintage are going anywhere from $4K - $8K according to Wine Searcher.
Wow, last time I looked it sold for $500-600. That wasn't too long ago.
Most of the wines recommended are $300 to over $8K, depending on the vintage. BTW, that's one thing I like about Wine Searcher. If you don't have time to look-up vintage ratings you can pretty much guess by looking at the prices on WS. The good vintages typically go for significantly more money.

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#64 Post by Gaudissabois Johan » April 29th, 2020, 2:39 am

I would add ECHEZEAUX and GRANDS ECHEZEAUX both by G NOELLAT and by Alix MILLOT (a bargain compared to the lists most of you are forwarding).

Generally speaking I agree with most lists and thus CHAMBERTIN and CLOS de BEZE (ROUSSEAU), BONNES MARES (ROUMIER), ROMANEE and ECHEZEAUX (bij LIGER BELAIR), RICHEBOURG and RSV (HUDELOT-NOELLAT), MUSIGNY (C de V, ROUMIER and MUGNIER), RICHEBOURG (GRIVOT) should but also LES SAINT GEORGES (CHEVILLON and Thibault L BELAIR) could be included.

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#65 Post by Gaudissabois Johan » April 29th, 2020, 3:47 am

Friends,

I see that most comments on Lamarche's LA GRANDE RUE are not that favourable. Starting with the 2009 vintage Francois' daughter has done a terrific job. The 2009 was in an blind tasting conducted with friends on par with the incredible LA ROMANEE. Further i think the RICHEBOURG by Tibault Liger belair is great too. I do not agree with some amongst you stating tha RICHEBOUR by Denis Mugneret was great. "WAS" because the parcel is now with its proprietor Thibault. I further state that both the RICHEBOURG and RSTV 91 by Hudelot Noellat are among the greatest Burgs I ever tasted. Parker gave the R-ST-V a meagre 89 points at the time. Clive Coates set the record straight 10 years later by awarding the wine a perfect 20 out of 20.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#66 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 29th, 2020, 4:10 am

A fun thread, and glad to see it resurrected. In the year since it began, my choice is still the two Trapets (Rossignol and straight Trapet)but also Tremblay premier crus. A little extra for her Grand Crus would be well worth the investment.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#67 Post by Howard Cooper » April 29th, 2020, 5:39 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 4:10 am
A fun thread, and glad to see it resurrected. In the year since it began, my choice is still the two Trapets (Rossignol and straight Trapet)but also Tremblay premier crus. A little extra for her Grand Crus would be well worth the investment.
In the last year, I have had more recent vintage Trapet a couple of times and can see why you like them so much. Much better than what I had a number of years ago. Still probably priced about twice what RT wines sell for, but of very high quality. I really liked their 2017s at the Paulee Grand Tasting this year.

Other Grand Crus that I have liked as relative values are Clos de la Roche and Charmes Chambertin from Pierre Amiot and Clos Vougeot from Hudelot-Noellat, although in the latter case the 2018s so far are much more expensive that the 2017s were (could be in part the impact of the tariffs). But, are these high end enough for what Jay wanted?

I love the wines of Cecile Tremblay, but are you arguing for them as just really high quality wines or as values - easy to see the first, much harder with the second.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#68 Post by Gerhard P. » April 29th, 2020, 6:11 am

Comte Liger-Belair:
La Romanee
if too expensive: Aux Reignots (or Les Suchots, or Petits Monts)
if still too expensive:
Les Chaumes
still cheaper:
Clos du Chateau

Vintage 2009 - if too expensive: 2007 (great now)
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#69 Post by Subu Ramachandran » April 29th, 2020, 6:15 am

Any top end burgundy list IMHO should include:

Clos Vougeot and Echezeaux by Mugneret Gibourg
Clos de la Roche, Clos St Dennis by Ponsot
Clos Vougeot by HN


Johan, good call on G. Noellat and Millot.

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#70 Post by Dennis Borczon » April 29th, 2020, 6:34 am

Hudelot-Noellat Romanee St Vivant 2009 or 2010. If there is a more perfumed GC Burgundy that is reasonably accessible and likely to be genuine on the market, I don't know what it is. trying to source some of these older Burgs at auction now is probably fraught with some risk. Does anyone believe that with the crazy Burgundy prices and lack of security features that lots of old GC Burgundy is certifiably genuine? Just because Rudy is in jail and Hardy is dead hardly means that things are really cleaned up. The lure of all that easy money seem to a siren call. I am constantly amazed at the seeming oceans of highly desirable Burgundy that shows up in practically every auction. I would almost never trust anything coming out of Hong Kong. Sorry but that part of the world seems....well, just a little suspect in terms of honesty right now.

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#71 Post by Yong Wei C. » April 29th, 2020, 8:21 am

Kelly Walker wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Does your friend have experience with quality red Burgundy? If not he has no reference point. Maybe better to recommend a really good Burgundy and a great Burgundy. Then maybe he can experience “what all the fuss is about.”
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#72 Post by Paul Jaouen » April 29th, 2020, 8:37 am

If I could have any non-DRC Burg, it would be a top wine from Domaine Leroy. I might actually even pick Leroy over DRC depending on the wine.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#73 Post by Andrew K. » April 29th, 2020, 8:55 am

stuff from Comte Liger Belair and Leroy are often more expensive than DRC, so I would consider them in the same boat. if the goal is to talk about less cult-following and more reasonably priced selections (better value) there's Thibault Liger Belair and Grivot.

On the CC side, there's Dujac, Dugat-Py and Potel. And a mention to Bernstein, but he's lifted the price to gouging territory in recent vintages.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#74 Post by Jonathan Favre » April 29th, 2020, 9:29 am

Paul Jaouen wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 8:37 am
If I could have any non-DRC Burg, it would be a top wine from Domaine Leroy. I might actually even pick Leroy over DRC depending on the wine.
Well said Paul - coming from a true wine lover! Man, other than the obvious reference to RC being the best of all time (just kidding) - La Tache, select Leroy bottlings, Rousseau Chambertin, and Mugnier Musigny (not in any particular order) has to round out the top 4 to 5 - with the Rousseau Beze at #6 maybe. You can see this in the market also - when supply is limited and demand high - the prices for these wines keep going through the roof.

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#75 Post by Gaudissabois Johan » April 29th, 2020, 9:43 am

I fully agree with Dennis concerning the HUDELOT-NOELLAT 2009. It is a brilliant wine. Both the RICHEBOURG and R-St-V are. Can't wait to open another bottle.

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#76 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 29th, 2020, 9:57 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 5:39 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 4:10 am
A fun thread, and glad to see it resurrected. In the year since it began, my choice is still the two Trapets (Rossignol and straight Trapet)but also Tremblay premier crus. A little extra for her Grand Crus would be well worth the investment.
In the last year, I have had more recent vintage Trapet a couple of times and can see why you like them so much. Much better than what I had a number of years ago. Still probably priced about twice what RT wines sell for, but of very high quality. I really liked their 2017s at the Paulee Grand Tasting this year.

Other Grand Crus that I have liked as relative values are Clos de la Roche and Charmes Chambertin from Pierre Amiot and Clos Vougeot from Hudelot-Noellat, although in the latter case the 2018s so far are much more expensive that the 2017s were (could be in part the impact of the tariffs). But, are these high end enough for what Jay wanted?

I love the wines of Cecile Tremblay, but are you arguing for them as just really high quality wines or as values - easy to see the first, much harder with the second.
I think that Tremblay’s premier crus are not good values, but they do have that quality to them, that when people ask for “the Burgundy experience” I find that that is a good place to steer them. I don’t know how she does it, but in mid palate, there’s a core of fruit and a lift which I associate with much more expensive wines like DRC.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#77 Post by RyanC » April 29th, 2020, 10:05 am

A ton of suggestions here for Leroy, Roumier, Comte Liger-Belair, Mugnier Musigny, and similar $1,000++ wines. Perhaps the more interesting question, which some have answered, is: what Cotes de Nuits wines for $500 or less (hopefully much less--$500 is still an objectively huge amount of $$ to spend on a bottle of wine) regularly come close in quality to the unaffordable Burgundy trophy wines like DRC/Leroy/CLB? Here are some initial and extremely partial thoughts (some of these hover over $500 in certain vintages):

Dujac Clos de la Roche and Clos St. Denis
Hubert Lignier Clos de la Roche
Chevillon and Gouges Les Saint Georges
Bruno Clair Beze and Bonnes Mares
Fourrier Clos St. Jacques
Faiveley/Drouhin Beze
Bachelet Charmes
Arnoux Suchots
Domaine Trapet Chambertin

(If you want to go up to the $500-1,000 level, that opens up a lot more, like Mugneret-Gibourg's Clos Vougeot and H-N's Richebourg and RSV)
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#78 Post by Gaudissabois Johan » May 2nd, 2020, 8:35 am

Friends,

Yesterday I had a wonderful RICHEBOURG 2011 by Thibault Liger Belair. Not a great vintage but Thibault really nailed it (his LES SAINT GEORGES was also superb). Since it is a lot cheaper than the here often named classic wines it is strongly adviced. My experience with TiBAULT and his wines are very possitive. The guy is really sympathetic. Not a necessity but it helps. A know a famous domaine in VOUGEOT where no matter how long you have been a client you're always received as a newcomer. No names mentioned.

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#79 Post by Howard Cooper » May 3rd, 2020, 5:19 am

Gaudissabois Johan wrote:
May 2nd, 2020, 8:35 am
Friends,

Yesterday I had a wonderful RICHEBOURG 2011 by Thibault Liger Belair. Not a great vintage but Thibault really nailed it (his LES SAINT GEORGES was also superb). Since it is a lot cheaper than the here often named classic wines it is strongly adviced. My experience with TiBAULT and his wines are very possitive. The guy is really sympathetic. Not a necessity but it helps. A know a famous domaine in VOUGEOT where no matter how long you have been a client you're always received as a newcomer. No names mentioned.

SINCERELY JOHAN
I am always interested in visiting a couple of domaines that are new to me when I visit Burgundy. Are you saying that I would be able to get an appointment to visit there if I write to him requesting a visit (obviously, this likely won't be happening for a while given current world realities but I hope to go back to Burgundy multiple times in the future).
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#80 Post by Paul Jaouen » May 3rd, 2020, 6:22 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 5:19 am
Gaudissabois Johan wrote:
May 2nd, 2020, 8:35 am
Friends,

Yesterday I had a wonderful RICHEBOURG 2011 by Thibault Liger Belair. Not a great vintage but Thibault really nailed it (his LES SAINT GEORGES was also superb). Since it is a lot cheaper than the here often named classic wines it is strongly adviced. My experience with TiBAULT and his wines are very possitive. The guy is really sympathetic. Not a necessity but it helps. A know a famous domaine in VOUGEOT where no matter how long you have been a client you're always received as a newcomer. No names mentioned.

SINCERELY JOHAN
I am always interested in visiting a couple of domaines that are new to me when I visit Burgundy. Are you saying that I would be able to get an appointment to visit there if I write to him requesting a visit (obviously, this likely won't be happening for a while given current world realities but I hope to go back to Burgundy multiple times in the future).
I visited there a couple years ago. Thibault told me that he gets hundreds of requests daily. I'm not sure if he was exaggerating or not but chances of getting in on your own by just writing him are probably slim.
Best,
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#81 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » May 3rd, 2020, 6:42 am

Out of curiosity has anyone had these champy RSV from late 90 early 00? They seem extremely cheap.

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#82 Post by Howard Cooper » May 3rd, 2020, 8:32 am

Paul Jaouen wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 6:22 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 5:19 am
Gaudissabois Johan wrote:
May 2nd, 2020, 8:35 am
Friends,

Yesterday I had a wonderful RICHEBOURG 2011 by Thibault Liger Belair. Not a great vintage but Thibault really nailed it (his LES SAINT GEORGES was also superb). Since it is a lot cheaper than the here often named classic wines it is strongly adviced. My experience with TiBAULT and his wines are very possitive. The guy is really sympathetic. Not a necessity but it helps. A know a famous domaine in VOUGEOT where no matter how long you have been a client you're always received as a newcomer. No names mentioned.

SINCERELY JOHAN
I am always interested in visiting a couple of domaines that are new to me when I visit Burgundy. Are you saying that I would be able to get an appointment to visit there if I write to him requesting a visit (obviously, this likely won't be happening for a while given current world realities but I hope to go back to Burgundy multiple times in the future).
I visited there a couple years ago. Thibault told me that he gets hundreds of requests daily. I'm not sure if he was exaggerating or not but chances of getting in on your own by just writing him are probably slim.
That is what I would have thought and why I was surprised by the prior post.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

Gaudissabois Johan
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#83 Post by Gaudissabois Johan » May 4th, 2020, 3:34 am

I must admit that I have been a client "chez THIBAULT" since 2002. But I am not that sure Thibault does not take on any new clients. Of course 2015 and 2016 are not the vintages to try becoming a new customer. 2017 you never can tell. Many viticulteurs say they do not take on new clients. Till you try. Even DRC may take you on after several calls (at least that's what Vicomte Liger Belair told me).
Other possible domaines to visit : ANNE GROS, JJ CONFURON, HUDELOT-BAILLET (very good CRAS, BORNIQUEs and CHARMES and BONNES MAREs at a very reasonable price) (Confuron's RSV may not be the most famous but in my view it is always reliable)...

SINCERELY JOHAN

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#84 Post by A Songeur » May 4th, 2020, 4:10 am

Who knows? Out of my head
- Grivot Richebourg Echezeaux
- Hudelot N Richebourg and RSV
- Musigny Vogue, Mugnier (he has over 1 hectare) Roumier...
- Mugneret Gibourg Ruchottes, Clos Vougeot, Echezeaux
- Roumier Bonnes Mares et Amoureuses
- A few other Amoureuses?
- Ponsot Clos St Denis and de la Roche, Dujac
- Rousseau upper wines, Bachelet Charmes, Fourrier Griottes,...

I am sure I forget plenty and, note I am not familiar with DRC so some above may not make the grade.
And in a good vintage, other wines may emerge (I managed to get a bottle of the 5 producers CSJ in 2010...one of which is my only ever Rousseau...) and put a fight.
Antoine

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#85 Post by A Songeur » May 4th, 2020, 5:39 am

paul hanna wrote:
June 9th, 2019, 4:35 am
Faiveley Musigny is the rarest, and possible most underrated of the "top end non DRC" reds.

Fantastic quality, very rare (half the production of Roumier's Musigny) and, compared to many others, could really still be considered to be under priced....
Actually, they now have more Musigny land as they purchased Dufouleur plot a few years ago. I have no idea what impact thistripling of their holding affects the quality though... as Dufouleur Musigny reputation was so so (due to producer, vines, ...??? no idea)
Antoine

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#86 Post by dbailey » May 4th, 2020, 12:34 pm

Surprised nobody has mentioned Drouhin’s musigny. Absolutely on a par with de vogue’s or mugnier’s IMHO.
Dan

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#87 Post by Subu Ramachandran » May 4th, 2020, 2:49 pm

Dan I agree, Drouhin's Musigny and Clos de Beze should be on the list. Sadly, I don't have many data points to compare it to Mugnier's.

Antoine, don't overlook Hudelot Noellat's Clos Vougeot. From the top portion, it often matches and at times surpases Mugneret Gibourg's version, like in 2016.
Last edited by Subu Ramachandran on May 4th, 2020, 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jayson Cohen
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#88 Post by Jayson Cohen » May 4th, 2020, 2:56 pm

Subu Ramachandran wrote:
May 4th, 2020, 2:49 pm
From the top portion, it often matches and at times surpases Mugneret Gibourg's version, like in 2016.
I’ve only tried them each once, at the Paulee last year, but I personally don’t agree. And I did like the H-N CV.

Subu Ramachandran
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#89 Post by Subu Ramachandran » May 4th, 2020, 3:07 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
May 4th, 2020, 2:56 pm
Subu Ramachandran wrote:
May 4th, 2020, 2:49 pm
From the top portion, it often matches and at times surpases Mugneret Gibourg's version, like in 2016.
I’ve only tried them each once, at the Paulee last year, but I personally don’t agree. And I did like the H-N CV.
Well perhaps I have a cheap taste, find pleasure at less than half the price. Lucky me! [cheers.gif]

These are opinions anyway, lets agree to disagree!

Jayson Cohen
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#90 Post by Jayson Cohen » May 4th, 2020, 3:19 pm

Subu Ramachandran wrote:
May 4th, 2020, 3:07 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
May 4th, 2020, 2:56 pm
Subu Ramachandran wrote:
May 4th, 2020, 2:49 pm
From the top portion, it often matches and at times surpases Mugneret Gibourg's version, like in 2016.
I’ve only tried them each once, at the Paulee last year, but I personally don’t agree. And I did like the H-N CV.
Well perhaps I have a cheap taste, find pleasure at less than half the price. Lucky me! [cheers.gif]

These are opinions anyway, lets agree to disagree!
Yep.

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