2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

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Chris Blum
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2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#1 Post by Chris Blum » October 27th, 2018, 6:07 pm

I’m stumped. I don’t know if this wine is stylistically correct or oxidized.

Nose muted, oxidized stone fruit, tight waxy uninteresting finish.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#2 Post by Marcus Dean » October 27th, 2018, 6:45 pm

sounds like every orange wine I have tried, sadly I am just not hip enough to understand these faulty creations

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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#3 Post by Markus S » October 27th, 2018, 7:06 pm

Sounds about right.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#4 Post by Chris Blum » October 28th, 2018, 6:20 am

Opened a second bottle that was slightly more open and a bit less dark. It was still, for my palate, not worth the price of admission.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#5 Post by Kirk.Grant » October 28th, 2018, 6:22 am

I've had this many times now...and I've had one "wow" experience with this. One some levels it parallels my experience with Beaucastel Blanc VV. The one experience I had with it when it was on was awesome...every other one was meh. At 20-25% success...I have NO interest in spending my money on it.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#6 Post by Chris Blum » October 28th, 2018, 6:25 am

The deal is, a friend us trying to impress her wine geek SiL with a bottle and she’s focused on orange wines. I ordered these to sample one and provide one for the gift. BTW, She LOOOOVED it.

The Moroccan spiced chicken and root vegetables we ate with it were really good though.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#7 Post by Markus S » October 28th, 2018, 7:46 am

Kirk.Grant wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 6:22 am
... One some levels it parallels my experience with Beaucastel Blanc VV. The one experience I had with it when it was on was awesome...every other one was meh. ...
Don't say that. BB is a totally different beast with no oxidative notes and NOT orange. Of course, like many Rhone whites, you need to catch it on the right day, but the hit rate should be over 90%, not 25 with that wine.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#8 Post by Thomas Keim » October 28th, 2018, 7:51 am

The biggest problem with purchasing Orange wines, and Gravner in particular, ESPECIALLY the older bottlings, are the storage conditions. I run into old bottles of Gravner all the time in stores, and they are usually stored at room temperature, and usually turning brown by 10 years of age. Purchase them upon release and cellar them yourselves. I had an '05 Breg a few months ago that was just breathtaking, and still beautifully light amber in color with no browning -
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#9 Post by Chris Blum » October 28th, 2018, 8:28 am

What might be a safer option for the gift (under $40)?
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#10 Post by Kirk.Grant » October 28th, 2018, 8:52 am

Markus S wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 7:46 am
Kirk.Grant wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 6:22 am
... One some levels it parallels my experience with Beaucastel Blanc VV. The one experience I had with it when it was on was awesome...every other one was meh. ...
Don't say that. BB is a totally different beast with no oxidative notes and NOT orange. Of course, like many Rhone whites, you need to catch it on the right day, but the hit rate should be over 90%, not 25 with that wine.
I was talking about my experience with the wines being "off". They're both about the same in that 3 out of 4 bottles have been "ok" for me with one being..."Oh, this is why people rave about this wine". I'm not comparing the wine styles at all...
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#11 Post by Otto Forsberg » October 29th, 2018, 1:16 am

Thomas Keim wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 7:51 am
The biggest problem with purchasing Orange wines, and Gravner in particular, ESPECIALLY the older bottlings, are the storage conditions. I run into old bottles of Gravner all the time in stores, and they are usually stored at room temperature, and usually turning brown by 10 years of age.
Seconded. Had a 1995 Breg some time ago. Was thoroughly oxidized and completely in pieces. A shame, because I enjoy well-made skin-contect white orange / amber wines quite a lot.

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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#12 Post by Chris Blum » October 29th, 2018, 4:37 am

Any advice or recommendations for my friend’s Orange wine gift?
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#13 Post by Markus S » October 29th, 2018, 4:54 am

Chris Blum wrote:
October 29th, 2018, 4:37 am
Any advice or recommendations for my friend’s Orange wine gift?
Can you find a Zidarich white? (Prulke, Malvasia, ...whatever) Not easy to find but well-made. Old Bressan whites if you can suss them out. Does it have to be OLD? And why does it have to be ORANGE?
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Yup...

#14 Post by TomHill » October 29th, 2018, 5:45 am

Chris Blum wrote:
October 29th, 2018, 4:37 am
Any advice or recommendations for my friend’s Orange wine gift?
Agree on the Zidarich. Also Skerk and Kabaj are good choices.
Easiest option would probably get one of JimCowan's skin-contact whites,
or a Forlorn-Hope, or a Ryme Vermentino "His".
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#15 Post by Jorge Henriquez » October 29th, 2018, 6:10 am

Chris Blum wrote:
October 29th, 2018, 4:37 am
Any advice or recommendations for my friend’s Orange wine gift?
Try looking for Coenobium from Suore Cistercensi. Awesome wine and not too far out in the orange spectrum.

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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#16 Post by Jorge Henriquez » October 29th, 2018, 6:14 am

"Week of Orange Wine" started yesterday in NYC.



Will hit up a couple of events and see what's up!
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#17 Post by Thomas Keim » October 29th, 2018, 6:24 am

Chris Blum wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 8:28 am
What might be a safer option for the gift (under $40)?
If you are set on Italy, and white - go with a white from Liguria - Pigato in particular. Usually in the $30 range, it's just an extraordinary white, and a little bit easier to understand than an orange wine -
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#18 Post by Chris Blum » October 29th, 2018, 7:12 am

The orange wine thing is something she’s kinda stuck on. At least stylistically I need to stay in that lane. Thanks guys.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#19 Post by Jim Stewart » October 29th, 2018, 7:30 am

Piggy-backing on Thomas’ suggestion. We tasted a Pigato for the first time last week. Very nice wine. Also tasted Malvasia at the same time which we also enjoyed. Finally, another Italian white suggestion is Fiano di Avellino, which to our tastes has just a little bit more “going on”” than the other two. All three could be enjoyed on their own or with food. We would be happy receiving or gifting any of the three. They are all in the $25 range.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#20 Post by larry schaffer » October 29th, 2018, 7:39 am

I have not had too many orange wines, but from the ones I've had, an older Gravner served from Magnum was a wonderful standout (2001 Breg Amfora) when I tried it last December. I especially enjoyed it as it approached room temperature.

My 'challenge' with most Orange wines is that they tend to speak more of the 'process' than individual varieties - kind of like lots of 'carbonic' wines these days. Though many may be 'enjoyable', few are standouts, at least to me.

That said, I am certainly open minded and am enjoying the suggestions here.

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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#21 Post by m. ristev » October 29th, 2018, 7:57 am

in general i am not a fan of orange wines, but i love radikon
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#22 Post by G. Greenbaum » October 30th, 2018, 5:25 pm

Markus S wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 7:46 am
Kirk.Grant wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 6:22 am
... One some levels it parallels my experience with Beaucastel Blanc VV. The one experience I had with it when it was on was awesome...every other one was meh. ...
Don't say that. BB is a totally different beast with no oxidative notes and NOT orange. Of course, like many Rhone whites, you need to catch it on the right day, but the hit rate should be over 90%, not 25 with that wine.
Well, I had the '87 Beaucastel Rousanne about 9 yrs ago. Jason Haas brought it. It was a gift from Perin. He said the previous bottles he had were all oxidized so we opened his bottle with trepidation. Totally oxidized both in color and flavor, so we put off in the corner as a punishment. Later in the evening we decided to see if the misbehaving bottle had corrected itself. To all our astonishment it had not only freshened up, it was stellar. One of the greatest White rhone wines I've tasted and that includes the northern portion too. To this day I am mystified how this wine corrected itself in a few hours. Many speak to the middle period of aged white rhone (usually Marsanne & Rousanne) as having an oxidized phase where the wines show poorly and then recover with more bottle age.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#23 Post by Markus S » October 30th, 2018, 5:56 pm

G. Greenbaum wrote:
October 30th, 2018, 5:25 pm
Markus S wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 7:46 am
Kirk.Grant wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 6:22 am
... One some levels it parallels my experience with Beaucastel Blanc VV. The one experience I had with it when it was on was awesome...every other one was meh. ...
Don't say that. BB is a totally different beast with no oxidative notes and NOT orange. Of course, like many Rhone whites, you need to catch it on the right day, but the hit rate should be over 90%, not 25 with that wine.
Well, I had the '87 Beaucastel Rousanne about 9 yrs ago. Jason Haas brought it. It was a gift from Perin. He said the previous bottles he had were all oxidized so we opened his bottle with trepidation. Totally oxidized both in color and flavor, so we put off in the corner as a punishment. Later in the evening we decided to see if the misbehaving bottle had corrected itself. To all our astonishment it had not only freshened up, it was stellar. One of the greatest White rhone wines I've tasted and that includes the northern portion too. To this day I am mystified how this wine corrected itself in a few hours. Many speak to the middle period of aged white rhone (usually Marsanne & Rousanne) as having an oxidized phase where the wines show poorly and then recover with more bottle age.
See, THIS is why you can't write these off! People always say nebbiolo changes in the glass or is tough to catch, but I find NRhone whites more challenging. Great story, btw.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#24 Post by Karl K » October 30th, 2018, 6:06 pm

+2 Zidarich recommendation

I have tried two bottles of 04 Radikon Jakot; both were disgusting. Smell of rancid spoiled meat.

Patio Bea Santa Chiara I recommend.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#25 Post by kris_lelis » October 31st, 2018, 1:39 pm

Im by no means a fan of orange wine but if you ask my opinion Gravner and Radikon are the only ones that do it right

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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#26 Post by Doug Schulman » November 1st, 2018, 9:54 am

I have had a few bottles of various vintages of this, mostly purchased on release, and they've been extremely variable, none of them great. Some were outright undrinkable due to VA (aromas of both vinegar and nail polish). The best bottles that I had were nowhere near worth the price.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#27 Post by ryancurry » November 1st, 2018, 2:13 pm

When you get a good bottle of gravner, there is no better pairing for veal masala.
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#28 Post by Otto Forsberg » November 2nd, 2018, 4:22 am

kris_lelis wrote:
October 31st, 2018, 1:39 pm
Im by no means a fan of orange wine but if you ask my opinion Gravner and Radikon are the only ones that do it right
Lol, I guess I won't ask your opinion then.

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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#29 Post by Joe W i n o g r a d » November 2nd, 2018, 6:56 am

For me, these are not wines for which I will open and drain the bottle in an evening. They get paired with a dish or moment and then I will move on. The bottle goes into the fridge (among the condiments, appropriately), from which it will be re-tasted in the same way over the course of several weeks or months and it’s a different experience every time. Often improved, sometimes diminished, but rarely dead. I think it may be how these wines are best enjoyed and perhaps to blame for the fact that they turn off those who expect them to “perform on demand.”

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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#30 Post by Sean Malloy » November 2nd, 2018, 12:37 pm

Chris Blum wrote:
October 29th, 2018, 7:12 am
The orange wine thing is something she’s kinda stuck on. At least stylistically I need to stay in that lane. Thanks guys.
If you're still looking for recommendations, and willing to go new world, I really like Ryme Cellars for orange wine. Ribolla or Vermentino (the "his" not the "hers").

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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#31 Post by L e o F r o k i c » November 2nd, 2018, 12:40 pm

Chris Blum wrote:
October 29th, 2018, 4:37 am
Any advice or recommendations for my friend’s Orange wine gift?
Giorgio Clai Malvazija Sv Jakov is my favorite https://www.winfieldflynn.com/wines/Gio ... w06119862p
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Re: 2004 Gravner Breg Orange wine

#32 Post by Jay Miller » November 2nd, 2018, 12:46 pm

Chris Blum wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 8:28 am
What might be a safer option for the gift (under $40)?
I love the Paolo Bea Santa Chiara. It's orange enough for the enthusiasts but not so orange as to put off the people who don't care for the style.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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