BerserkerDay VIII planning discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

Warm up your credit cards and come on in, as here is where you will find all the BerserkerDay offers - open to EVERYONE who loves wine. Apologize to your spouse or significant other ahead of time. Offers are posted in groups of 10-12 every 30 minutes - Auctions preview at 9:00 am PST
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BerserkerDay VIII planning discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#1 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 15th, 2016, 11:03 am

EDITING FIRST POST TO REFLECT SOME CHANGES BASED ON COMMUNITY DISCUSSION

Hey Berserkers! It's time to start the discussion about BerserkerDay, this one being the EIGHTH! [wow.gif] I'm going to open up discussion with this post, and try to update all pertinent information submitted in the thread into this first post, so it's not necessary to read each question and answer within the thread, and to hopefully prevent multiple questions being asked. When live, BerserkerDay will be on its own forum, as always.

As always, it's held on Jan 27th, and luckily this year, that's a Friday, and since most people don't get squat done at work on Friday anyway...no excuses!

Last year (and the year before, actually) over $200k was spent (each year) based on the polling I did of the participants, and that's truly amazing. It's become so big that it is hard to handle, and the 'free-for-all' setup has to be amended slightly, as well as limiting the number of participants. My notes - taken when they were still fresh, immediately after last BerserkerDay - are below (most of them, anyway) and open for discussion. Many of you have participated in each BerserkerDay since the very first, so I value your opinions. I also value opinions from those who have only participated in the most recent ones, the madhouse, action-packed overwhelming big BerserkerDays, as you don't know what it was like when it was 'easy', with 20-25 offers, max.

Some notes, and likely plans for BerserkerDay VIII:

One of the principal issues now that it is so big is that offers fall by the wayside, quickly buried under dozens of other offers, and without folks actively posting about the new offers, they can get buried so fast they get almost no traction at all, and never do. I have ideas on how to fix this, and make BerserkerDay more efficient for ALL.

Newbies: This year, Newbies will have a little special treatment, to encourage participation and hopefully discover NEW 'board darlings', as so many have started as relatively unknowns on prior BerserkerDays and have become such board darlings. To encourage participation with the new wineries (not retailers, only wineries) we will have a feature on each of them - written by them - about a week before BerserkerDay, to introduce themselves, their making styles, personal stuff - allowing the community to get to know them a bit prior to the offering when it's difficult to sort through. Each listing for Newbies will have the topic icon signifying that they are a Newbie (as I've abandoned the categorical topic icons based on responses in this thread, my original idea)

No Thread/Offer Bumping: Massive change to what was previously here as a concept, I've figured out how to keep offers in the order of launch - any discussion, any replies will not bump them on the top, so each offer gets equal amount of time in the first spot, then moving down one at a time while new offers are made. I want to be sure the popular ones don't bury some of our other valuable offers, based solely on number of posts. Also, in the past, a few folks who were making the offers would 'bump' their own threads/offers, which is unfair for those who don't have the time to play on WB all day (shame on them for not playing here all day and making wine instead!!!). This way, it's all equal in terms of exposure.

Limited Number of Offers: This one is not for certain, as I feel it's an attempt to fix some of the same issues the above WILL fix, but it might wean out a few of the offers that aren't legitimate enough to get traction, so we'll see. The idea is to make sure every offer is excellent in its own way, to keep the madness of BerserkerDay intact. The better the offers, the more activity and discussion, and the faster ordering occurs.

Yes, we'll still have the auction, yes, there will still be Subscribers 'Early Purchase' Day, and yes, Subscribers will have some sort of preview options, but it will be more carefully submitted thanks to the organizational changes mentioned above.

I definitely want to have this shared with as many folks as possible, to get word out to the wine world beyond our 25,000 registered members and 8000 or so visitors daily, so if any of you has a blog, knows a blogger, or has connections with any sort of press, please contact me so we can put something together.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#2 Post by JeromeHan » November 15th, 2016, 12:06 pm

So excited to participate in my first BerserkerDay!

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#3 Post by Bdklein » November 15th, 2016, 5:05 pm

JeromeHan wrote:So excited to participate in my first BerserkerDay!
So is your credit card company!!!
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#4 Post by J Mah » November 15th, 2016, 5:36 pm

I am not really a fan of any of the changes. I think Berserker Day works well. Since the primary issue is that some offers get buried (or buried too quickly), I honestly believe the issue is the responsibility of the vendor. If the offer is good enough, then Berserkers will find it and purchase it. There is a lot of competition for Berseker dollars on that day. Even if a certain vendor does not sell much that day, each business gets exposure to the community. I think the focus should continue to be on growing the number of offers and growing the Berserker and Berseker Day community.

I do think that there should be some consideration for the vendors in terms of the timing of the offers. I have no idea what the ideal time is to be listed. I am not sure if anyone knows. How the offers are presented in terms of timing seems to be the main issue for both vendors and buyers. I think there could be some improvement there, but I unfortunately do not have a solution.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#5 Post by David_S » November 15th, 2016, 7:29 pm

JeromeHan wrote:So excited to participate in my first BerserkerDay!
+100
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#6 Post by Craig G » November 15th, 2016, 8:11 pm

I'm in for the Dujac mixed case again!
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#7 Post by Steve Brickley » November 15th, 2016, 8:18 pm

Steaks must be aging as we speak.
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#8 Post by Bdklein » November 16th, 2016, 3:50 am

Confused about the "Group" Idea. If I'm in a work meeting or don't have Internet access, there are offers that will come and go, and I might not see them? That doesn't make sense to me. I do realize that offers may sell out in that same time frame, but at least I can see them.

Am I missing something?

I do appreciate the effort; sure it can't be easy.
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#9 Post by David_S » November 16th, 2016, 7:19 am

Bdklein wrote: Am I missing something?
If you haven't started planning for a sick day, you might be.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#10 Post by Corey N. » November 16th, 2016, 7:36 am

A few thoughts...

First, I think BerserkerDay has been a smashing success and thanks to everyone involved. My suggestions/comments are intended to address Todd's post above, and should not be looked at as a criticism of an event that I have enjoyed for several years.

I think putting offers into groups is an interesting idea, but I think it's going to do a disservice to several established participants. In the past, we've had many vendors make multiple deals -- a Pinot pack, a whites pack, a mixed pack, etc. Would a vendor offering a Pinot pack and a mixed pack get split into two different groupings? Listed twice? I think it adds to a certain amount of confusion either way. If you are wedded to the group idea, perhaps split the wineries up geographically (e.g., Napa, Sonoma, Rest of Cali, Oregon, Old World).

Also, if you're worried about offers getting buried, a simple "fix" would be to get the preview out as soon as possible, perhaps 3-7 days before for subscribers, a day before for contributors, an hour for members. If someone is aware of the offer beforehand, they can seek out the offer. I really don't care if I get an earlier preview than anyone else, but I understand wanting to keep some level of exclusivity. Perhaps if there are offers with limited quantities (I've seen any number of "I only have 10 6-packs available), you can open those sales to subscribers first and/or encourage wineries to incentivize subscribers (extra $5 off or something of the sort...of course, this might be difficult for wineries).

Re: time limits...I'm not sure I understand the concept. Are you suggesting allowing people to buy from only one group at a time? Again, this gets hard if winemakers fall into multiple categories. Personally, I like having the free for all. Plus, I'm sometimes buried in work (and I know I'm not alone) so forcing me to buy in a 2-hour window is difficult.

I don't think prizes adds much, but I don't necessarily think it detracts either. Still, I think the "prize" should be the good deal that you get on the wine, not a free corkscrew or the like.

Again, thanks to all who participate for making this a great event.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#11 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 16th, 2016, 8:08 am

I don't think most understand just how many offers got COMPLETELY buried, immediately, and not simply because they weren't 'great' offers, but because there are so many offers. Categorizing them in blocks will likely solve the issue, as then we have offers in manageable blocks rather than one after another, 150 in all, so those that aren't 'forum favorites' will instantly get buried.

I want to capture some of the original scope of BerserkerDay, in discovering new, small wineries while preserving the madness that it has been lately, with literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of transactions. Know that the backend is a different point of view, and please understand the feedback that I get from wineries on both sides of the plate in an effort to figure out a viable alternative.

I don't see how a preview would help whatsoever, as when they are submitted en masse as they have been, those that are not forum favorites WILL get buried. There's little discussion because there's so much data - so many offers pouring out - and this isn't supposed to be a Black Friday at Wal-Mart, rather, a community of wine lovers, thus we should probably embrace that aspect of it most of all, and have a way to fully communicate with those making the offers. To do so, we need to make it manageable, and to simply show preview days far ahead of time doesn't change the 'en masse' delivery of those offers, so the buried offers would still occur. To isolate them into groups (and yes, those with multiple offers would be present in multiple categories, i.e a Pinot Pack in the Pinot group, a Cab offer in the Cab group, etc) narrows the focus just a bit, and the time limits create a sense of urgency. Once the day is over, I'll re-open ALL the categories and it will be the 'en masse' listing, with stuff buried throughout and the need to dig through three pages of 50 offers each in order to find something (though I might figure out how to put each in a subforum so those who want to buy white wines know they only have to check that one forum, just as every online shopping portal has categories that allow the shopper to isolate what they are LOOKING to buy), thus giving each offer another chance, albeit a low-urgency, trickle in opportunity to make a few more sales. The madness occurs in their own group, during their assigned time.

Thanks for the info on the prizes, too - I figured that might spice things up, but if others feel it isn't needed, sure makes it easier for me! I can definitely see how it's not exactly an incentive - the incentive is the great offers themselves, as they've always been! I do, however, want some prizes for social media sharing, as I want to get the word out as much as possible.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#12 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 16th, 2016, 9:11 am

I'm receiving a few PMs, primarily from winery participants, but I STRONGLY encourage you all to post in here, as the discussion is meant to benefit all. Don't be afraid to post in here, particularly those wineries who HAVE participated in the past, as your input is valuable.

One complaint received - addressed in the original post, with potential solutions offered - is that the wineries who get the late times are stuck with empty wallets. If you are launched late in the day, the money is gone.

A potential solution is to launch everything at once. The obvious problem with that is that BerserkerDay is over in an hour, and all the fun is gone. That's why I have to figure out a way to compartmentalize the offers, and have suggested a compromise of listing them in 'bulk' within their categories, which allows folks to target wineries they want to see (preview day, for Subscribers, will be modified, but will allow all offers to be shown so planning can be done) and save money for the later groupings - what should happen (as I know this has happened to me, many times) is folks will jump in before their targeted offers because those shown are simply too hard to resist...thus they'll overspend, as is typical :)

If anyone has a potential solution to the MAIN problem (too many offers, thus newbies get buried, forum favorites get much more discussion, and late-listed offers get little traction simply because they got a short straw in the random drawing) I'm all ears. My best case scenario is the categorization listed above, as I haven't seen/heard/thought of a solution that captures the craziness of BerserkerDay but SOLVES the issues of buried or 'I have no more money' listings.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#13 Post by Thomas Bougetz » November 16th, 2016, 9:31 am

Todd F r e n c h wrote:I'm receiving a few PMs, primarily from winery participants, but I STRONGLY encourage you all to post in here, as the discussion is meant to benefit all. Don't be afraid to post in here, particularly those wineries who HAVE participated in the past, as your input is valuable.

One complaint received - addressed in the original post, with potential solutions offered - is that the wineries who get the late times are stuck with empty wallets. If you are launched late in the day, the money is gone.

A potential solution is to launch everything at once. The obvious problem with that is that BerserkerDay is over in an hour, and all the fun is gone. That's why I have to figure out a way to compartmentalize the offers, and have suggested a compromise of listing them in 'bulk' within their categories, which allows folks to target wineries they want to see (preview day, for Subscribers, will be modified, but will allow all offers to be shown so planning can be done) and save money for the later groupings - what should happen (as I know this has happened to me, many times) is folks will jump in before their targeted offers because those shown are simply too hard to resist...thus they'll overspend, as is typical :)

If anyone has a potential solution to the MAIN problem (too many offers, thus newbies get buried, forum favorites get much more discussion, and late-listed offers get little traction simply because they got a short straw in the random drawing) I'm all ears. My best case scenario is the categorization listed above, as I haven't seen/heard/thought of a solution that captures the craziness of BerserkerDay but SOLVES the issues of buried or 'I have no more money' listings.
Being one on the "Offering" side, I thought I'd provide some food for thought. One of the biggest limitations, with so many offers last year, is if you are one of the late offers, a very high percentage of subscribers are already tired and done looking at offers. So, for me, a way to get more offers earlier in the day, so all the offers are out there in a more timely fashion, would be great. I believe this is what Todd is attempting to address with the concept of groups.

Another approach is what if instead of groups, we split the thread into separate threads, along the same lines. Say we have a set of threads like: Imported wines, Northern California, Rest of California, Pacific Northwest Wines, Non-wine offers, etc.
This way a new offer in each thread can be released much in the same way as it always has worked. The BIG difference is all offers are out to the community much earlier, say before noon, and they are easier to weed through, as they have been categorized along the thread. We already have a forum Category for the Beserkers Day VIII. We could have these threads exist in this category.

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#14 Post by Michael Martin » November 16th, 2016, 9:37 am

Thomas Bougetz wrote:
Todd F r e n c h wrote:I'm receiving a few PMs, primarily from winery participants, but I STRONGLY encourage you all to post in here, as the discussion is meant to benefit all. Don't be afraid to post in here, particularly those wineries who HAVE participated in the past, as your input is valuable.

One complaint received - addressed in the original post, with potential solutions offered - is that the wineries who get the late times are stuck with empty wallets. If you are launched late in the day, the money is gone.

A potential solution is to launch everything at once. The obvious problem with that is that BerserkerDay is over in an hour, and all the fun is gone. That's why I have to figure out a way to compartmentalize the offers, and have suggested a compromise of listing them in 'bulk' within their categories, which allows folks to target wineries they want to see (preview day, for Subscribers, will be modified, but will allow all offers to be shown so planning can be done) and save money for the later groupings - what should happen (as I know this has happened to me, many times) is folks will jump in before their targeted offers because those shown are simply too hard to resist...thus they'll overspend, as is typical :)

If anyone has a potential solution to the MAIN problem (too many offers, thus newbies get buried, forum favorites get much more discussion, and late-listed offers get little traction simply because they got a short straw in the random drawing) I'm all ears. My best case scenario is the categorization listed above, as I haven't seen/heard/thought of a solution that captures the craziness of BerserkerDay but SOLVES the issues of buried or 'I have no more money' listings.
Being one on the "Offering" side, I thought I'd provide some food for thought. One of the biggest limitations, with so many offers last year, is if you are one of the late offers, a very high percentage of subscribers are already tired and done looking at offers. So, for me, a way to get more offers earlier in the day, so all the offers are out there in a more timely fashion, would be great. I believe this is what Todd is attempting to address with the concept of groups.

Another approach is what if instead of groups, we split the thread into separate threads, along the same lines. Say we have a set of threads like: Imported wines, Northern California, Rest of California, Pacific Northwest Wines, Non-wine offers, etc.
This way a new offer in each thread can be released much in the same way as it always has worked. The BIG difference is all offers are out to the community much earlier, say before noon, and they are easier to weed through, as they have been categorized along the thread. We already have a forum Category for the Beserkers Day VIII. We could have these threads exist in this category.
I would love to see all of them at once.

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#15 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 16th, 2016, 9:50 am

Michael Martin wrote: I would love to see all of them at once.
Michael, I addressed this above:
Todd F r e n c h wrote:A potential solution is to launch everything at once. The obvious problem with that is that BerserkerDay is over in an hour, and all the fun is gone.
Can you imagine if 150 offers were posted all at once, three pages of 50 threads each, and then trying to wade through them to find out what you want? Then, one hour later, it's over...
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#16 Post by Michael Martin » November 16th, 2016, 9:54 am

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
Michael Martin wrote: I would love to see all of them at once.
Michael, I addressed this above:
Todd F r e n c h wrote:A potential solution is to launch everything at once. The obvious problem with that is that BerserkerDay is over in an hour, and all the fun is gone.
Can you imagine if 150 offers were posted all at once, three pages of 50 threads each, and then trying to wade through them to find out what you want? Then, one hour later, it's over...
Sounds awesome. Like Christmas morning. [snort.gif]

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#17 Post by Abbie S. » November 16th, 2016, 9:55 am

If you want to highlight the "newbies", maybe they should all have their own threads. The berserker favorites (returning wineries) can go into the different category threads.
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#18 Post by CJ Beazley » November 16th, 2016, 10:38 am

Just so I understand, a mixed offering of 3 bottles Pinot, 3 bottles Syrah and 3 bottles Chardonnay would get a listing under each "heading"?
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#19 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 16th, 2016, 10:46 am

CJ Beazley wrote:Just so I understand, a mixed offering of 3 bottles Pinot, 3 bottles Syrah and 3 bottles Chardonnay would get a listing under each "heading"?
Something like that likely would be in 'everything else' I guess? Not sure yet...haven't seen offers to know how to categorize them
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#20 Post by Bdklein » November 16th, 2016, 10:49 am

In the past, what is/are the determining factors of what offers were released in what order??

Also, by putting the offers in groups, I think it makes more work and people would be less likely to go digging into each group . I know I will be more likely to scroll pages in 1 forum than go into multiple Groups.

But if you are locked into using Groups, maybe just do it alphabetically regardless of type of merchant . Maybe there will be hunting? I won't go into a non-wine group, but if I came across an enticing offer in a group labeled "A-D" (or made a bit more exciting ) perhaps I would buy it.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#21 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 16th, 2016, 10:53 am

Bdklein wrote:In the past, what is/are the determining factors of what offers were released in what order??

Also, by putting the offers in groups, I think it makes more work and people would be less likely to go digging into each group . I know I will be more likely to scroll pages in 1 forum than go into multiple Groups.

But if you are locked into using Groups, maybe just do it alphabetically regardless of type of merchant . Maybe there will be hunting? I won't go into a non-wine group, but if I came across an enticing offer in a group labeled "A-D" (or made a bit more exciting ) perhaps I would buy it.
Again, recall that those who end up at the end of the day (I use a random number generator to assign launch times) will be screwed out of participation, based solely on their short straw pull. I'm trying to do groups to emulate a bit of the first few years, where it was 'manageable' to discuss the offers, buy them, and nobody was forgotten. With 150 offers, I either reduce them, and limit it to the 50 'best' offers, or find a way to properly, efficiently manage so many deals, trying to give an even spread of wealth to all of them.
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#22 Post by CJ Beazley » November 16th, 2016, 10:57 am

As far as the last offer posted gets the least action I have two thoughts.
Literally draw them out of a hat, like a lottery for the merchants making the offers.
Or weigh the discount and the better offers get posted first-some killer deal goes up sooner as opposed to 'ten percent off a full case'
Just a thought.

Edit: I posted before I read post #21, sorry.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#23 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 16th, 2016, 11:02 am

CJ Beazley wrote:As far as the last offer posted gets the least action I have two thoughts.
Literally draw them out of a hat, like a lottery for the merchants making the offers.
Or weigh the discount and the better offers get posted first-some killer deal goes up sooner as opposed to 'ten percent off a full case'
Just a thought.

Edit: I posted before I read post #21, sorry.
To your latter point, the 'value' of the discount is often subjective. I might think 10% off is not very good, but when the winery almost never offers a discount - or never - it's better than a winery that perhaps offers some discounts, frequently, but has a massive one this time. Judging the value of the offer is a slippery slope, I've found...and the wineries love to argue if I ever point out that I feel the offer is not good enough, trust me.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#24 Post by CJ Beazley » November 16th, 2016, 11:13 am

Just don't do alpha because then Ryan Zepaltas gets hosed.

This might come down to "if it ain't broke don't fix it" simply from a consumer pov I think everything works fine. As far as orders getting "avalanched", seems to me people always find the ones they are truly interested in. And personally I always hold a little back in case a good offer comes late.
For the record; I really hope Arcadian has an offer this year. I think it was one of the most talked about last time.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#25 Post by Dan Hammer » November 16th, 2016, 11:37 am

Todd,

Up above, you said and the time limits create a sense of urgency. The last thing I need on 27 January is to feel additional pressure. There's enough of that on my wallet (credit card). [wink.gif]

As for prioritizing the offers, you have to think like the airlines.
Offer 3 different categories for the vendors (and charge them a fee). ie Platinum vendors pay more than Gold, and Gold pays more than silver. This way, you can send out the offers according to categories. Basically pay to get your offer uptop.

I'm just sayin.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#26 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 16th, 2016, 11:38 am

CJ Beazley wrote:Just don't do alpha because then Ryan Zepaltas gets hosed.

This might come down to "if it ain't broke don't fix it" simply from a consumer pov I think everything works fine. As far as orders getting "avalanched", seems to me people always find the ones they are truly interested in. And personally I always hold a little back in case a good offer comes late.
For the record; I really hope Arcadian has an offer this year. I think it was one of the most talked about last time.
The problem is, however, the system IS broke - we have so many offers now that many get completely buried, either because they are unknowns, or they got a late launch time, or both.
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#27 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 16th, 2016, 11:39 am

Dan Hammer wrote:Todd,

Up above, you said and the time limits create a sense of urgency. The last thing I need on 27 January is to feel additional pressure. There's enough of that on my wallet (credit card). [wink.gif]

As for prioritizing the offers, you have to think like the airlines.
Offer 3 different categories for the vendors (and charge them a fee). ie Platinum vendors pay more than Gold, and Gold pays more than silver. This way, you can send out the offers according to categories. Basically pay to get your offer uptop.

I'm just sayin.
Pay to play has been suggested in the past, but it takes away from the core fundamentals of how this community was created, and how it continues to thrive. It also puts the smaller wineries at a great disadvantage, as they don't have the same marketing budgets as larger wineries (or airline vendors). Also, how much attention do you think the Bronze category will get, once Platinum and Gold have already gone? Would you take the time to look them over very seriously?
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#28 Post by Dan Hammer » November 16th, 2016, 11:52 am

Todd F r e n c h wrote: Also, how much attention do you think the Bronze category will get, once Platinum and Gold have already gone? Would you take the time to look them over very seriously?
I look at every offer on Berserkerday. I also do my homework by searching here and on Cellartracker. Sometimes, I take a flyer on something if a friend here posts on an offer saying he/she just bought in.

I would advise anyone that's not a contributor/subscriber, to pay Todd so that you can get on the preview list. (not a suck-up). [whistle.gif]
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#29 Post by Mark Y » November 16th, 2016, 12:03 pm

I hate the groups idea with limited time
If I have a two hour block in the afternoon for example I'm basically unable to buy 2/3 groups And only the one group is possible. As I understand the groups disappear once their time is up? That seems silly. It is a work day still.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#30 Post by Robert Pollard-Smith » November 16th, 2016, 12:12 pm

How about regions by the hour, repeated 3 times as below? To avoid selling out in the first segments, there can be limited amounts offered for every time period— or the sellers can create different offers for each of their three allowed times. If a producer has for instance SV Pinots from OR and Nor Cal, they get to offer in one of the time rota, but are allowed to post a reference to this in the preview, and a reminder in the other applicable time sector .

All PST
9AM Nor Cal
10AM All retailers
11AM OR-WA
12PM Central & Southern Cal, and rest of U.S.
repeat below
1PM
2PM
3PM
4PM
repeat below
5PM
6PM
7PM
8PM

Or something like that. [cheers.gif]
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#31 Post by John A Kramer » November 16th, 2016, 12:17 pm

If I understand it correctly, the issue is new listings dropping off the main page too fast. If so, why not disable the feature where new posts bump the topic to the top of the forum? Each new listing would have a certain amount of time at the top of the forum, but would gradually sink down as new listings are added.

Regarding fairness for late-in-the-day listings, start the day off with those listings that were added late the previous year (assuming there are returning offers). E.g., start off with the last 10-20 from the previous year, and then randomize the rest. At least that way, if you get stuck at the end, you know you'd have a better spot the next year.

Last year was the first time I participated, and I thought it was fun to dig through the pages to find interesting offerings, but can certainly understand it being a problem.

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#32 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 16th, 2016, 12:23 pm

Mark Y wrote:I hate the groups idea with limited time
If I have a two hour block in the afternoon for example I'm basically unable to buy 2/3 groups And only the one group is possible. As I understand the groups disappear once their time is up? That seems silly. It is a work day still.
The idea is that groups will have a timeframe, i.e. 9:00 - 10:00 am, then it shuts down while the other groups, in their timeframes go, then at the end of each group's time, everything will be opened up at once, thus keeping the randomness and excitement of multiple offers, along with the ability to see them ALL at the end (this is outlined in the first post)
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#33 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 16th, 2016, 12:24 pm

Robert Pollard-Smith wrote:How about regions by the hour, repeated 3 times as below? To avoid selling out in the first segments, there can be limited amounts offered for every time period— or the sellers can create different offers for each of their three allowed times. If a producer has for instance SV Pinots from OR and Nor Cal, they get to offer in one of the time rota, but are allowed to post a reference to this in the preview, and a reminder in the other applicable time sector .

All PST
9AM Nor Cal
10AM All retailers
11AM OR-WA
12PM Central & Southern Cal, and rest of U.S.
repeat below
1PM
2PM
3PM
4PM
repeat below
5PM
6PM
7PM
8PM

Or something like that. [cheers.gif]
Is this in any way different from the 'groups' I outlined in the OP?
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#34 Post by larry schaffer » November 16th, 2016, 5:35 pm

If you will have a group for Pinot and a group for cab/Merlot, why not have 'domestic Rhones' instead of one for 'syrah' and then just 'others '

Also, if I have a few offers, and one is for all whites, one is for all reds, and one is mixed, will they all be separated?

Personally, I thought last year went really smoothly. But perhaps it's just me :-)

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#35 Post by Steve Saxon » November 16th, 2016, 5:46 pm

If you really have that many offers, why don't you call it Berserkerdays and have it over two days?
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#36 Post by Stephen Faulkner » November 16th, 2016, 5:48 pm

If I recall correctly, I have participated in every BerserkerDay since BDIII and have loved them all as they unfolded as imperfect events. I've always managed to find new wines to try, stock up on favorites, and have a lot of fun at the same time. My comments are offered with appreciation for all of the hard work that goes into this event and the difficulty in pleasing a majority of Berserkers.

My vote is for minimal tweaking if change is needed to address perceived shortcomings recognizing that a solution for some is a new problem for others. For the buried Newbies problem, it seems that a Newbie thread is all that is needed. If that is what you want, you know where to find it.

Someone will have to be at the end. Anyone who regularly presents papers at meetings has been in the last session of the last day where the audience is just the presenters and some of their friends. I second the idea that you rotate those to the top the next year and then randomize; don't know how to make it more fair than that. You could also hold back some of the most popular offers for late in the day knowing they will still do well.

I'm amused at how this concept that we can replicate the fun/excitement of a generally spontaneous earlier time/event by prescribing behavior through artificially constructed rules and constraints permeates the human condition. I also dislike the idea of groups with limits, expiration times, reappearances later in the day (if there is wine left). All of that would create more stress and work trying to keep track of it all and would not encourage me to spend more time discussing.

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#37 Post by SeanHarding » November 16th, 2016, 7:08 pm

I suppose this is just part of the spirit of the event, but it occurs to me that the problem of offers being buried is caused by using a message board thread for posting them. So whenever people post replies, it changes the order of the offers. You could avoid that by not using board threads (e.g. use a simple wordpress site or something, that would keep things in the order that they were posted, regardless of how much attention they get). I'm not sure I'd strongly encourage that approach, but it does kind of feel like some of this is a workaround for using an imperfect tool for the job of posting limited-time deals...

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#38 Post by Steve Gautier » November 16th, 2016, 7:48 pm

Could you pin most recent offers to the top so they don't get buried with discussion on older offers
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#39 Post by David H. » November 16th, 2016, 8:27 pm

I think wineries that end up in multiple groups may end up with more work on their hands and this could be less valuable as purchasers will want to combine offers to save on shipping, thus leading to the winery juggling things on the backend.

Could it be possible for the lesser known or new participants have their offers pinned on the first page for a couple hours then rotated? Maybe a max of 10 pinned offers at a time?

I'm not liking the groups idea and I like to do my purchases at the end of the day. If I fear something I want will sell out, I can purchase on preview day.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#40 Post by Michael Davidson » November 16th, 2016, 8:45 pm

Todd, forum favorites will always get the most discussion. That's why they're favorites.

My vote is to keep it the same. Wineries that participate year round will get the most chatter, others will sink or float based on the offer. I'm not sure why you'd try to help folks that participate one day only over the favorites that always contribute anyway!

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#41 Post by Andrew Morris » November 16th, 2016, 8:53 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
Michael Martin wrote: I would love to see all of them at once.
Michael, I addressed this above:
Todd F r e n c h wrote:A potential solution is to launch everything at once. The obvious problem with that is that BerserkerDay is over in an hour, and all the fun is gone.
Can you imagine if 150 offers were posted all at once, three pages of 50 threads each, and then trying to wade through them to find out what you want? Then, one hour later, it's over...
I don't think it would be over. It would take longer than that. Some would wait for the discussion and see what other have to say. Some would strike while the iron is hot to make sure the offer does not run out. It would still go on... Have it start at 12N and all post at once.

On the other hand, it seems that the people who actually participate here and have an offer might be allocated some preference. Not just for me, but for the other wineries here. I think having actual producers here adds a lot to this site.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#42 Post by Scott Wi3gand » November 16th, 2016, 9:06 pm

This might sound naive but couldn't you just have somebody bump the offers that get buried? Somebody could monitor the bottom of the board and bump the stale offers.

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#43 Post by Jason T » November 17th, 2016, 12:33 am

John A Kramer wrote:If I understand it correctly, the issue is new listings dropping off the main page too fast. If so, why not disable the feature where new posts bump the topic to the top of the forum? Each new listing would have a certain amount of time at the top of the forum, but would gradually sink down as new listings are added.

Regarding fairness for late-in-the-day listings, start the day off with those listings that were added late the previous year (assuming there are returning offers). E.g., start off with the last 10-20 from the previous year, and then randomize the rest. At least that way, if you get stuck at the end, you know you'd have a better spot the next year.

Last year was the first time I participated, and I thought it was fun to dig through the pages to find interesting offerings, but can certainly understand it being a problem.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#44 Post by Erik G » November 17th, 2016, 6:02 am

A few of these problems might have easy technical fixes. Since the BD forum has its own set of rules anyway, why not just bump up the number of threads displayed per page to 200, so that an offer that scrolls past #50 won't be pushed off the page. The main issue there would be the added load on the servers, but I'm assuming you're on AWS or something, where you can pay them a bit more for extra bandwidth/server resources for a short period of time? I'd also advocate for changing how threads are ordered, so that "bumping" becomes a non-issue: once an offer is posted, its location in the list is fixed for the day, regardless of how many comments are posted on it. If you're feeling aggressive, post the forum darlings first, so that anyone reading later in the day will have to scroll all the way down to find their known favorites. Combined with the larger number of threads per page, you might have to scroll down further to find something, but nothing will get lost by being pushed to page 2 and then never generating any discussion.

I'm a web developer by trade, so if this is something that I can help out with, drop me a line, Todd.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#45 Post by J a y H a c k » November 17th, 2016, 7:15 am

I will repeat what I have said before. I think it should be organized in the manner most convenient to The Todd, since it is out of the goodness of his heart (although there is some debate about whether he actually has one) that we have Berserkerday. Berserkers are an adaptable lot and we will survive whatever stupid ideas he comes up with.

That said, I like the Newbie idea. I tend to place a few orders for wines I have never tried, and I like to support the entrepreneurial spirit, even when that spirit is represented by people who want to throw away a fortune by starting a winery.

An interesting requirement that would take no additional Todd effort - how about if each winery offering wine was required to include a two paragraph description/history/whatever about the winery, the vineyards, the philosophy or whatever. Each winery has to do a one minute elevator speech to kick off its offer.

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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#46 Post by JulianD » November 17th, 2016, 7:20 am

Put forum favorites last. People will always save for them anyway, so putting them last will fix the fatigue/overspending issue

Or, as stated above, have the board as a whole pinned (all threads stuck), so that replies will not push topics to the top (therefore the 'favorites' will not push others to the back)
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#47 Post by Corey N. » November 17th, 2016, 7:45 am

Todd F r e n c h wrote:Can you imagine if 150 offers were posted all at once, three pages of 50 threads each, and then trying to wade through them to find out what you want? Then, one hour later, it's over...
If there are truly 150 offers, then perhaps a possible solution is to revisit the idea of making BerserkerDay a multi-day event. I like the chaos to an extent, but more time = more opportunities to sort through offers.
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#48 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 17th, 2016, 7:58 am

Corey N. wrote:
Todd F r e n c h wrote:Can you imagine if 150 offers were posted all at once, three pages of 50 threads each, and then trying to wade through them to find out what you want? Then, one hour later, it's over...
If there are truly 150 offers, then perhaps a possible solution is to revisit the idea of making BerserkerDay a multi-day event. I like the chaos to an extent, but more time = more opportunities to sort through offers.
I like some of the ideas presented here, and I'm looking into the possibilities of implementing them.

As for two days, it will lose nearly all of it's madness, and my hope is to limit the offers to 150 (not that 150 is a 'low' number!) and with some modifications to the day, we can figure out how to do it in a more organized fashion, and thus we solve the issue entirely!
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#49 Post by Daniel H » November 17th, 2016, 9:57 am

Great ideas:
Similar offers grouped together, by subforum or by release time
New offers "pinned" to the top for a limited time
Release everything at once

Terrible ideas:
Offers disabled or deleted to make way for another wave of offers - unfair and disheartening for anyone not spending all day in front of the computer

Additional comment about releasing everything at once - how can having three pages of offers be simultaneously efficient (after one hour it is done) and overwhelming (too much to process)? I regularly review multiple pages on the site when I have been away from it for awhile, and would be doubly motivated on Berserker Day. If ignored offers are truly a concern, Todd could periodically cull out the least commented threads and pin them too the top for an hour. I would think that the retailers would greatly appreciate having their offer available the full day, rather than risk all their effort being missed because of a bad draw number. The Xmas morning comment is very appropriate - would Christmas be better if the gifts were slowly and randomly handed out throughout the day?
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BerserkerDay VIII discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

#50 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 17th, 2016, 1:17 pm

Ok, I'm a bit surprised that so few liked the groups idea, but it did seem to meld into other ideas that include much of what we've done in the past with bulk uploads of offers.

I've been working all morning to figure out some logistics, but based on some of the info above, this is an alternative that I should be able to do:

Without modifying all the forum software (and applying the mod across ALL forums including Wine Talk) I can't make just one forum set to keep new threads where they were originally launched - either, across the board (so to speak) the threads get bumped with every new post, or they stay planted where they are. So, I've figured out a way around it, and know how I can create the threads and keep them in their original launch positions, no matter how many posts and replies they have. Essentially, each topic becomes an 'announcement', so it's pegged at the top, and doesn't change when folks make comments in reply.

Categorical group launches didn't seem to fly, but categories as a concept seems good, as many folks like the ability to sort through the many offers. Another option, then, is for me to put topic icons on the offers, with codes so that you can easily zero in on what you want, be that Pinot, Newbies, Bordeaux wines, Old World, etc.

Here are the topic icons, which will appear to the left of the topic/offer title:

Image (White wines)
Image (Rhone Varietals)
Image (Bordeaux Wines/Blends)
Image (Pinot)
Image (Everything Else)
Image (New Wineries)
Image (Food Products - maybe)

I could launch in groups of 5 or 10 to minimize the 'I was put in the last time bracket, so I got no orders!' issues, but still no GOOD solution to that issue. Launch times are drawn using a random number generator, and I'm not going to CHOOSE which are 'forum darlings' because those I don't choose will be pissed at me, and I'm not about to play favorites. I don't want 'pay-to-play' beyond BerserkerBusiness (which is stupid cheap - $125/year) and Subscribers with their Early Purchase options (some wineries sell out during Early Purchase Preview Day, so beware!) because then the smaller companies/wineries are at a huge disadvantage to those who could afford to throw $500 to be listed super early and get the freshest money. I might save food and other products for last, as it's typically cheaper overall, and if you buy a ton of wine, it's not as difficult to buy accessories FOR that wine, or food (which you need no matter what, anyway). That might minimize the issues with 'we were last so we had no orders'.

Thoughts???
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