Burgundy Virgin.....

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
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ericskitei
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#1 Post by ericskitei » November 10th, 2013, 8:11 am

Looking to expand my palate and get into Burgundy. Large cellar with New World gems and great Bordeaux but looking to get my feet wet with Burgundy and take it to the next level. Does anyone have some suggestions of starter level Burgundy sub $100 to ease into it?

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#2 Post by Robert Panzer » November 10th, 2013, 8:16 am

Too much to be concise.
PM if you want to discuss.
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#3 Post by ky1em!ttskus » November 10th, 2013, 8:22 am

If you would type it out in a PM, type it out here. I think this is a great thread idea.

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#4 Post by Michael S. Monie » November 10th, 2013, 8:25 am

A chastity belt?
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Alan Rath
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#5 Post by Alan Rath » November 10th, 2013, 8:38 am

Just put your whole cellar for sale, right now, and jump in head first. I can assure you that once you start down this path, the result is inevitable...
I'm just one lost soul, swimming in a fish bowl, year after year

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#6 Post by dcornutt » November 10th, 2013, 8:42 am

Here would be my recent starter group.
Only 5 or 6 choices depending on availability . It reflects my own palate however.

09 Hudelot Noellat Chambolle Musigny. Forward and delicious even now. A premium village
09/10 Fourrier Gevrey Chambertin VV Ditto.

These wines are generous and delicious. Also relatively affordable.

Finding premier Cru below $100 will be an exercise in frustration if you don't know what to expect.
So, I would try out some of these below. Include some 09 Beaujolais if you can find it. Different but you will understand the connection even with that "disloyal Gaamez" as Philippe the Bold decreed in 1395.

2009 Foillard Morgon Cote du Py
2008/ 2009 Guillemot Savigny les Beaune Les Narbantons If you can find the 08, it is a head turner.

If you are willing to spend another $8 or so, the 2011 Hudelot Noellat Vosne Romanee Les Suchots is generous in volume and fruit. Perfect balance and drinking in a primary way that would really seduce a new world drinker. Highly recommended.

Good luck. I know this is a rather focused list but it is better to transition in a narrow way than to broadly sample where you might find Burgundy to be quite the minefield given the shutdown nature of some 2010's that you might sample. This is my personal opinion only.

FWIW.
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#7 Post by ericskitei » November 10th, 2013, 8:46 am

That's what I'm afraid of Alan. This is the second must have conversation in my life....The first was the birds & the bees, which was many years ago.

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#8 Post by ericskitei » November 10th, 2013, 8:49 am

Thanks Don. Sounds like a great start.

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#9 Post by Bill Klapp (deactivated) » November 10th, 2013, 8:49 am

Like a virgin...
Smellin' merde for the very first time...

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#10 Post by Robert Panzer » November 10th, 2013, 8:50 am

Ok. You asked for it.
My idea here is a village by village intro, of accessible examples that capture some of the character of the terroir at easy to swallow pricepoints. I do not believe it is best to start with the $$$$ best. I've also gone red centric. White would be a whole other list.....

Cote Chalonnaise:
Clos Salomon Givry 1er la Grande Berge blanc '12 $35
Clos Salomon Givry 1er Monopole rouge '08/'09/'10 $39
Vincent Dureuil Janthial Rully 1er Chapitre rouge '11 $39
Any of Dureuil's estate whites....sicko good.

Cote de Beaune:
Belland Santenay 1er Graviere '10 $35
Belland Santenay 1er Beauregard '09/'10 $35
Belland Chassagne Montrachet Clos Pitois 1er '10 $40
Belland Maranges 1er la Fussiere '11 $24
Nicolas Rossignol Volnay 1er Santenots '10/'11 $59
Nicolas Rossignol Volnay 1er Chevret '10/'11 $69
Nicolas Rossignol Beaune 1er Clos des Mouches '11 $59
Nicolas Rossignol Beaune 1er Clos du Roi '11 $45
Jadot Beaune 1er Clos des Ursules '09 $49
Domaine de Courcel Bourgogne rouge '10 $45 (pommard)
Joseph Voillot Pommard 1er Rugiens '09 $79
Olivier Lamy St Aubin 1er Derriere Chez Edouard rouge '09/'10 $49/$39
All of Lamy's whites. Period.

Cote de Nuits:
Arnoux NSG villages Poisets '09/'10 $45
Arnoux NSG 1er Proces '10 $59!
Hudelot Noellat NSG 1er Murgers '11 $69
Georges Noellat NSG 1er Boudots '10/'11/'12
Cecile Tremblay Bourgogne Croix Blanches '09 $45 (vosne)
Mugneret Gibourg Bourgogne $too much if you can find it
Mugneret Gibourg Vosne villages $too much if you can find it
Arnoux Vosne villages Hautes Maizieres '11 $69
Hudelot Noellat Vosne 1er Beaumonts or Suchots (on the cusp of your price range)
Arnoux Vosne 1er Chaumes '10/'11 $99
Arnoux Chambolle villages '11 $49
Hudelot Noellat Chambolle villages '11 $45
Bertheau Chambolle villages '11 $55
Barthod Bourgogne Bons Batons '09/'10
Barthod Chambolle villages '09/'10
Pousse d'Or Chambolle 1er Groseilles '10 $79
Pousse d'Or Chambolle 1er Charmes '11 $99
Pousse d'Or Chambolle 1er Feussellottes '11 $89
Lignier Michelot Morey St Denis 1er Faconnieres '09 $75
Lignier Michelot Morey St Denis 1er Chenevery '09 $69
Pascal Marchand Morey St Denis 1er Faconnieres '10 $65
Robert Groffier Gevrey villages les Seuvrees '11 $59
Pascal Marchand Gevrey 1er Fonteny '10 $69
Pascal Marchand Gevrey 1er Combe aux Moines '10 $65
Denis Bachelet Gevrey VV villages/Bourgogne rouge
Cyril Audoin's Marsannay wines from '09 and '10. Many 1ers, $35-49.
Pierre Gelin Fixin 1er Clos Napoleon '10 $59

That's off of the top of my head.
If there is a price next to the wine, I have it in stock (or on the water).
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#11 Post by dcornutt » November 10th, 2013, 8:53 am

That 2011 Nico Rossignol Volnay Chevrets would fit right into what you want! Lots of good choices in Robert's list here. The 10 is glorious but starting to shut down to me. The 11 is smoking good and wide open.

Great list Robert. I know you rep these but this is a very good list re: variety and excellent producers.
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#12 Post by ericskitei » November 10th, 2013, 8:55 am

Robert, are you local to LA?

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#13 Post by Robert Panzer » November 10th, 2013, 8:56 am

"Do unto others" is sort of my rule of thumb.

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#14 Post by Matt Levin » November 10th, 2013, 8:57 am

Eric,

Robert's list is pretty good. I would start with Gevrey since it will be the closest stylistically from what you are used too.

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#15 Post by ky1em!ttskus » November 10th, 2013, 9:00 am

Awesome list, Robert.

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#16 Post by Michael S. Monie » November 10th, 2013, 9:03 am

We have a retailer in N. O. who is a Burgundy specialist. When the 2000 vintage had been released, I went to him and told him that I was looking for a definitive experience with red Burgundy. He took to the back of his store and told me that he could only sell me one of these (probably true from what I've heard of his rolodex) and he showed me a bottle of 2000 Dugat-Py village something. I bought it for a c-note plus tax. Shortly after, I was getting together with two friends who are serious wine heads. I had an 86 Gruard-Larose that I knew that we would be drinking, so I thought why not start with the Dugat-Py. I popped the cork a couple of hours beforehand and tried a tasting pour. Nothing. I decanted and tried it a second time. Nothing. I decanted back into the bottle and tried a third pour. Nothing. Two hours later, still nothing. But the 86 Gruard-Larose was great!
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#17 Post by ericskitei » November 10th, 2013, 9:12 am

Robert, do most of these need to cellar for years and years before they can be enjoyed or are any ready for me to taste sooner than later (with proper decanting) Again, not familiar in the slightest with Burgundy.

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#18 Post by Robert Panzer » November 10th, 2013, 9:18 am

I chose these as wines that you could buy and drink this week.
Decanting with young wines is always very useful; helps you get at more than the baby fat primary flavors.
Some may be more open than others, but none would be a brick wall.
I am a big believer in BALANCE. Harmonious fine grained tannin (with tannin being the primary element that makes wines mute or shut down) allows for a useful youthful glimpse of even very structured wines, albeit not "optimal maturity".
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#19 Post by dcornutt » November 10th, 2013, 9:21 am

Michael S. Monie wrote:We have a retailer in N. O. who is a Burgundy specialist. When the 2000 vintage had been released, I went to him and told him that I was looking for a definitive experience with red Burgundy. He took to the back of his store and told me that he could only sell me one of these (probably true from what I've heard of his rolodex) and he showed me a bottle of 2000 Dugat-Py village something. I bought it for a c-note plus tax. Shortly after, I was getting together with two friends who are serious wine heads. I had an 86 Gruard-Larose that I knew that we would be drinking, so I thought why not start with the Dugat-Py. I popped the cork a couple of hours beforehand and tried a tasting pour. Nothing. I decanted and tried it a second time. Nothing. I decanted back into the bottle and tried a third pour. Nothing. Two hours later, still nothing. But the 86 Gruard-Larose was great!
Michael,

He picked one of the most stylistically unique producers in Burgundy unfortunately.
In a generous vintage like 2000, those wines were almost monolithic. Heavily stylized with oaking.
Not that the wines are not very good. They are excellent for what they are. They just don't speak Burgundy to me personally.
Too bad he didn't give you the 2000 Clos des Lambrays which would have cost you around $50 to 65 and delivered.
I understand however the rarity and hype of Dugat-Py. I just don't think it is Burgundy. My palate again.

As an aside, the 2000 vintage was the good old days to me. I had a retailer who participated in a wholesale dump of 2000 Lambrays due to a lack of interest. (If those days would return.) $25/btl. I could only get a case. UGH.
Last edited by dcornutt on November 10th, 2013, 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#20 Post by alan weinberg » November 10th, 2013, 9:27 am

Burgundy takes work; there are many threads on the board answering the question how to start. The threads have great answers and advice. My brief comment is to find a few older red Burgs, albeit more costly, to see if you like them--2000, 2001, 1993, all can be found. And are you talking red, white, or both?

Find a store that does tastings and go to a Burg tasting. Have Burgundy as a theme for your tasting group and do a few evenings w a coherent theme. Read, read, read, though there is no substitute for tasting. It takes a multi-pronged approach and many years to begin to understand Burgundy, though you might quickly learn the name of a couple stellar producers who are reliable. However, you need to learn the geography, the vintage variation, and all about "terroir."

There are threads herein re best Burg books and newsletters, themes for tastings, recommended Burg books. Be prepared to spend enjoyable years learning about Burgundy.

And sell your avatar wines to get a great financial head start on buying Burgs!
Last edited by alan weinberg on November 10th, 2013, 10:55 am, edited 3 times in total.

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#21 Post by Brady Daniels » November 10th, 2013, 9:35 am

Five years ago, I started my gf (burg virgin) with Fourrier Gevrey VV. "Oh, that's acidic!" she remarked, finding it excessive, but not so much so that we didn't finish the bottle. She agreed to keep trying other burgs. Six months later I re-served the Fourrier which she found terrific. Now she almost always chooses burgs.

Three lessons from this:
1. Fourrier, baby
2. Give it time to learn. Burgundy isn't California. Your palate must adapt.
3. If you begin to value freshness and finesse over fruit and power, you might need to sell some wines.

Or just run the other direction now.
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#22 Post by Robert Panzer » November 10th, 2013, 9:48 am

Michael S. Monie wrote:We have a retailer in N. O. who is a Burgundy specialist. When the 2000 vintage had been released, I went to him and told him that I was looking for a definitive experience with red Burgundy. He took to the back of his store and told me that he could only sell me one of these (probably true from what I've heard of his rolodex) and he showed me a bottle of 2000 Dugat-Py village something. I bought it for a c-note plus tax. Shortly after, I was getting together with two friends who are serious wine heads. I had an 86 Gruard-Larose that I knew that we would be drinking, so I thought why not start with the Dugat-Py. I popped the cork a couple of hours beforehand and tried a tasting pour. Nothing. I decanted and tried it a second time. Nothing. I decanted back into the bottle and tried a third pour. Nothing. Two hours later, still nothing. But the 86 Gruard-Larose was great!
That's a pity, Michael. I think that it depends on which salesman you deal with chez Martin; I always dealt with PJ, who was an awesome dude. He has since moved on, not caring for the environment in such a large structure.
As to the rec, that's exactly the kind of underwhelming, prestige priced experience that one should avoid with newbies. There is a burgundian experience in EVERY bottle of burgundy. The newbie needs more data, lots of it, to begin to form their own impression of what burgundy is about. Without direct personal sensory experience, it's all a bunch of vague "i've read things" projection, dart throwing blind. Lookout.
In as much as people seek to understand what "pinnacle experience" burgundy is all about, one cannot overlook that the "peak" has a broad essential base upon which all else is built.
Dive in.

Yep, Fourrier is sexy.
Yep, try some mature examples as Alan suggests.....
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#23 Post by D@v!d P@rt@!n » November 10th, 2013, 10:49 am

Lost of good ideas here. The Fourrier GCVV is the bomb, but also questionable value-wise. Oh wait, we're talking Burgundy, nevermind. neener
Let me add an inexpensive pair that may be readily available, particularly the Drouhin:
2009/10 Régis Bouvier En Montre Cul Bourgogne, darker fruit, more structure, very "Gevrey" imported by Kermit Lynch $20-25
2010 Drouhin Cote de Beaune, (not CdB-Villages) bright, fresh red cherry fruit, seamless balanced fruit/tannin/acidity, very "not Gevrey" $30-35

Disclaimer: I sell these.
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#24 Post by Robert Grenley » November 10th, 2013, 11:33 am

Hovering around the $100 mark, and sometimes below, I find the various Chevillon Nuits-St.-George's crus to be excellent and a value in today's inflated Burgundy marketplace. Although I have always sought out the Cailles, Vaucrains, and Les St. George's which can be a little over $100 though sometimes a bit under, the other crus can often be found significantly under $100. To be able to find premier crus that are not in short supply and that represent the pinnacle of quality in a particular commune at those prices in today's market is a rarity.
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#25 Post by Charlie Carnes » November 10th, 2013, 11:52 am

Alan Rath wrote:Just put your whole cellar for sale, right now, and jump in head first. I can assure you that once you start down this path, the result is inevitable...
Unbelievably true for me. OK, well I have kept my old Bordeaux and Barolo gems, and I'm addicted to Riesling and Chenin Blanc... but still the old cellar went through wholesale changes.
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#26 Post by Scott Brunson » November 10th, 2013, 11:58 am

Since you are a virgin I would try to find Volnay with some age on it so you can appreciate the velvety smoothness.
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#27 Post by Michael Davidson » November 10th, 2013, 2:27 pm

Lots of good advice on the board, but I'll throw in my two cents. I started drinking Burgundy regularly this year, so I'm pretty much in the same boat.

1) Have a retailer you trust put together a six-pack of varied burgs that should be drinking well now. It's a good way to explore a few regions and figure out where to go next.

2) There are a ton of excellent producers who make relatively cheap wines in Savigny-les-Beaunes and Pernand-Vergelesses. Bize, Pavelot, Rapet, Guillemot, Chandon de Briailles... If you want to investigate an area deeply, it's a pretty good place to be.

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#28 Post by F.Daner » November 10th, 2013, 3:42 pm

Eric- are you close to Woodlands Hills- whwc.com ? Nice burg selection and some great folks who can help steer you in the right direction.

I'm 2 years in and this year Burgundy will represent my largest region in terms of investment.

Guillemot Savigny is an excellent choice and I'd add Dublere Volnay Pitures. Both should be attractive style and price wise.

I'd also highly recommend Faiveley prem cru from 09 and 10. These are just terrific wines and they have a large portfolio that will let you explore most of the major regions.
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#29 Post by Charlie Carnes » November 10th, 2013, 3:44 pm

Eric, I would buy different Burgundy from across the gamut, in terms of critical acclaim, popularity on WB and CT, vintage, recommendations from retailers, etc. You spend your hard earned dollars on a range of wines and you'll quickly figure out which ones you like. It might be the cheapest and most expensive lesson you will ever learn. Like others say, don't get discouraged if you don't like some early bottles.

Michael, I agree with your number 1... Hopefully, said retailer has enough choices.
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#30 Post by Gerard S » November 10th, 2013, 5:29 pm

I'd ask panzer to put you together a mixed case and give them a whirl. He clearly seems to know his stuff and he has a good selection available.

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#31 Post by ericskitei » November 10th, 2013, 5:32 pm

Wow. Just got home and can't believe the number of responses. Really appreciate the feedback and will take all the advice to begin my journey down the "Burgundy Brick Road". Stay Tuned....

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#32 Post by john stimson » November 10th, 2013, 5:57 pm

ericskitei wrote:Wow. Just got home and can't believe the number of responses. Really appreciate the feedback and will take all the advice to begin my journey down the "Burgundy Brick Road". Stay Tuned....
You've gotten plenty of good feedback and great suggestions. My suggestion would be to line up several producers of various styles and communes as has been suggested above, and get a few friends together (hopefully to help foot the bill). 2010 may be a good choice although there are rumors of starting to shut down. Open them all at once so you get a chance to compare and contrast, and can more easily decide what style you find to your liking.

The other thing to realize is many true burg lovers don't even touch their wines for 10-15 years or longer, as this is when magic really starts to happen (there may be some disagreement here), so trying a few wines with age if you can at all pull this off, would be very instructive. The best thing is to have friends who are burg collectors, but if this isn't possible, buy a couple. I just shipped in several 93's in my fall shipments, and this is a very good burg year. 2001's and 2002's frequently pop up, and occasionally 98's, or even 96's. Envoyer not infrequently finds older ex-cellar wines, although you have to be a little selective.

good luck. Give us a status report.

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#33 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 10th, 2013, 6:03 pm

ericskitei wrote:Does anyone have some suggestions of starter level Burgundy sub $100 to ease into it?
It's been about a decade since you could get any sense of what Burgundy was about for less than $100 per bottle.

Nowadays, you can't even get good whites for less than $100.

If you're going to be on budget, then I'd strongly urge you to look at the Loire, the Jura, and Cru Beaujolais.

Even Champagne is far more aggressively priced these days than is Burgundy.

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#34 Post by john stimson » November 10th, 2013, 6:09 pm

Don't listen to Nathan, except the Loire/champagne thing.

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#35 Post by Scott Brunson » November 10th, 2013, 6:14 pm

PLENTY of good Burg for <$100 IMO Nathan
But I love the Loire
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#36 Post by Robert Grenley » November 10th, 2013, 7:45 pm

Nathan Smyth wrote:
ericskitei wrote:Does anyone have some suggestions of starter level Burgundy sub $100 to ease into it?
It's been about a decade since you could get any sense of what Burgundy was about for less than $100 per bottle.

Nowadays, you can't even get good whites for less than $100.

If you're going to be on budget, then I'd strongly urge you to look at the Loire, the Jura, and Cru Beaujolais.

Even Champagne is far more aggressively priced these days than is Burgundy.
No, plenty of good Burgundy for less than $100 as long as you are not looking for trophies, the most sought after producers, and Grand Crus. This assessment is overly pessimistic. Yes, the prices for the "collectible" stuff is through the roof, but there is plenty to enjoy besides that.
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#37 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 11th, 2013, 4:08 am

Robert Grenley wrote:No, plenty of good Burgundy for less than $100 as long as you are not looking for trophies
"Trophies", aka wines which are:

A) Worth the money you spent on them, and

B) Swallowable, and

C) Worth suffering through the hangover the next day.

Ain't happening in Burgundy anymore unless you get substantially past the three-figure mark.

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#38 Post by Robert Panzer » November 11th, 2013, 4:55 am

I respectfully disagree, Nathan.
Your criteria seem to be more about:
B)whether or not the wine makes you gag
C)whether or not the wine makes you sick
A)whether or not the wine has value
If you need to get above $100 for that, we are experiencing two very different burgundian universes.
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Nathan Smyth
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#39 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 11th, 2013, 5:55 am

1) Coudert Roillette Fleurie [normale, NOT tardive], $15
2) Puzelat Pinot d'Aunis [Chenin Noir], $25
3) Puffeney Poulsard "M", $35
TOTAL: $75

-versus-
Generic Gevrey Chambertin V.V. DNPIM Unswallowable Crap Wine, $75

For me, that's a no-brainer.

You could even throw a Texier Brezeme onto my list, and you'd still probaby sneak in just below three figures.

Here's another one:

Heavily Over-Oaked Premox-Prone Puligny/Meursaults Les Perrieres 1er Cru, $125
-versus-
2004 Taittinger Comtes, $99

Again, that's a huge no-brainer for me.
Last edited by Nathan Smyth on November 11th, 2013, 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#40 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 11th, 2013, 6:00 am

And for the record: I am NOT saying that Burgundy is bad wine.

In fact, by and large, Burgundy produces the greatest still [not bubbly] wines in the world.

But the good stuff has long since been priced many orders of magnitude beyond the grasp of the common man.

Even at $100 to $150, you are struggling to find good Burgundy these days.

Burgundy is now the province of fiat-electron mongering Banksters and Chicom Princelings and Persian Gulf potentates on vacation with their harems in Andalusia.

Don't kid yourself.

You waste your money [and your precious hangovers] on crap Burgundy at your own peril.

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#41 Post by Gerard S » November 11th, 2013, 6:04 am

Nathan- what about?

2008 pavelot savigny 1er narrbontons $28
Even the 10 is only $33
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#42 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 11th, 2013, 6:30 am

Gerard Stranch wrote:Nathan- what about?

2008 pavelot savigny 1er narrbontons $28
Even the 10 is only $33
I've never seen the label in our market.

Wine-Searcher says that it has very limited distribution nationwide, and that it's now more like a $40 to $50 wine, if you can find it:

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/pavelot+narbontons

[Which is not to say that it's a bad wine, it's just that it's a rather expensive wine which, to the best of my knowledge, is not available in my market.]

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Jay Miller
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#43 Post by Jay Miller » November 11th, 2013, 6:43 am

Michael S. Monie wrote:We have a retailer in N. O. who is a Burgundy specialist. When the 2000 vintage had been released, I went to him and told him that I was looking for a definitive experience with red Burgundy. He took to the back of his store and told me that he could only sell me one of these (probably true from what I've heard of his rolodex) and he showed me a bottle of 2000 Dugat-Py village something. I bought it for a c-note plus tax. Shortly after, I was getting together with two friends who are serious wine heads. I had an 86 Gruard-Larose that I knew that we would be drinking, so I thought why not start with the Dugat-Py. I popped the cork a couple of hours beforehand and tried a tasting pour. Nothing. I decanted and tried it a second time. Nothing. I decanted back into the bottle and tried a third pour. Nothing. Two hours later, still nothing. But the 86 Gruard-Larose was great!
I'd take the 1986 Gruaud Larose over a Dugat-Py almost any day. Though I did like their 2000 Charmes quite a bit.

My advice is to try and find tastings. Trying a wider variety of producers/regions is the way to determine what you like before you start spending a lot of money.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

Nathan Smyth
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#44 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 11th, 2013, 6:55 am

Jay Miller wrote:My advice is to try and find tastings. Trying a wider variety of producers/regions is the way to determine what you like before you start spending a lot of money.
That would have been great advice about ten or fifteen years ago.

I hate to be keep being so damned pessimistic, but do any retailers even open good Burgundy for free tastings anymore?

If they do, then I'm not aware of it.

[In my experience, there'd be a crowd lined up all the way around the block, waiting to get in the door.]

Now paid tastings might be a good route to pursue.

If you really wanted to learn Burgundy, and if you could find a tasting in the $100 range, which featured a nice broad range of, say, four good 1ers and four good GCs, then that might be a good use of the money.

But I'm worried that 1 oz pours of "four good 1ers and four good GCs" is gonna run you more like $300 these days.

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#45 Post by Robert Grenley » November 11th, 2013, 8:01 am

Nathan Smyth wrote:
Robert Grenley wrote:No, plenty of good Burgundy for less than $100 as long as you are not looking for trophies
"Trophies", aka wines which are:

A) Worth the money you spent on them, and

B) Swallowable, and

C) Worth suffering through the hangover the next day.

Ain't happening in Burgundy anymore unless you get substantially past the three-figure mark.
Your argument is absurd. I am the last one to be claiming that Burgundy prices have not gone into the level of ridiculous for the upper level wines, particularly those of the most sought-after producers (Rousseau, Dujac, Mugnier, etc., etc.) and particularly through our absurd triple-tier system, AND in the speculative market where those bottles that are not sourced through normal retail distribution (and some that are) get marked up like crazy. A function of increasing demand (including a wealthy new Asian market) and very short supply. But that is like arguing that all CA cabernet is crap and there is nothing decent below $500 a bottle because Harlan and Screaming Eagle et al charge absurd prices for their cabs. (By the way, I am not a cab drinker!) Or like arguing that Bordeaux is crap because you have to pay $400 and up for a bottle just because pricing for the first growths have escalated despite a massive production of 15-20 K cases! Even in a short vintage like 2010 where prices are higher, I have had some excellent NSG at $65 and $70 a bottle, an excellent top GCh Cazetiers for $90, and been buying some grand crus hovering around $100.

However, apparently you either have a chip on your shoulder about Burgundy OR are just trying to make a point by taking a completely absurd, reactive stance that is nonsensical. As I said, I have been complaining about Burgundy prices for quite a while, but only because the top bottles by the top producers that I have been buying for so many years have been priced (NOT at the domaines, but through our distribution here in the USA) out of my reach, and that is frustrating. But to claim that THOSE bottles, at their absurd pricing, are the only bottles worth drinking is to display willful ignorance.
I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff.
-Bob Dylan

"...what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it."

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#46 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 11th, 2013, 8:11 am

Talking to you Burgheads, who have 1998 pricepoints burned into your heads, is like talking to a bunch of aging hippies who think that just because Woodstock was such a psychedelic experience, back in the day, it necessarily follows that they ought to run out to the store and purchase the latest Miley Cyrus CD.

I live in Realville.

Not in Fantasyburg.

In Realville, you do not find swallowable Burgundy for less than $100, and, increasingly, it's getting way out towards $150 and beyond.

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#47 Post by Gerard S » November 11th, 2013, 8:19 am

Nathan- are you suggesting that there is no drinkable burgundy in savigny, beaune, santenay, marsannay, fixin, or NSG? As you can find village and premier crus from all of those places for less than $100 per bottle. In some of those areas, you would be hard pressed to find a bottle OVER $100.

Many corton's can be found for less than $100 per bottle- are you suggesting that corton is undrinkable?

Where is realsville? I live in TN- which has some of the most restrictive alcohol rules in the nation and I can find quality village and 1er burgs under $100 a bottle.

The pavelot you can't find is available from Jjbuckley for $28 a bottle right now. Panzer listed a bunch of nice burgs under $50 and some in the $20s and $30s that he is selling- right now.

I think you either arent trying or you have an axe to grind.....
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#48 Post by Brady Daniels » November 11th, 2013, 8:30 am

Stop feeding the troll. Nathan has derailed countless burg threads with the same line of garbage. Set label to "troll" and communication format to ignore! (long list of expletives deleted)
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Gerard S
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#49 Post by Gerard S » November 11th, 2013, 8:45 am

I guess it's axe to grind then.... Thanks Brady
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Robert Grenley
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#50 Post by Robert Grenley » November 11th, 2013, 9:17 am

Yes, no use in arguing this point any further, as the counters are illogical and rational statements are ignored. Bye.
I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff.
-Bob Dylan

"...what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it."

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