Europe Travel - Safe?

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Tom Moore
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#1 Post by Tom Moore »

Leaving on Monday, 3/28 for Paris, Sicily, Tuscany. Any thoughts on the current state of affairs besides the obvious ones? Obviously everyone is on high alert and the US State Dept has issued a warning against travel to Europe for the immediate future.

Anybody in Paris/Italy have a local update? I always look on the bright side - with everybody on such high alert that it should be the safest time to travel but.......

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#2 Post by Russell Faulkner »

Tom Moore wrote:Leaving on Monday, 3/28 for Paris, Sicily, Tuscany. the US State Dept has issued a warning against travel to Europe for the immediate future.

Has it?
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#3 Post by Tom Moore »

This makes me feel better - http://college.usatoday.com/2016/03/22/ ... t-attacks/

Yes they have issued a warning - but seems obvious they would after the event yesterday.

We are still going, just getting a little antsy I guess.

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#4 Post by Russell Faulkner »

Does it advise against travel or advise caution?

In any event I still plan on visiting Brussels next month taking normal precautions.

Unless one lives a very rural life it's impossible to guarantee avoiding such atrocities.

There will be more, in Europe and in the US.
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#5 Post by patrick c albright »

I am in Paris now.

Walking around the Marais, I feel pretty relaxed.
Walking down Haussman around Galeries Lafayette, I am a little more on edge and more
cognizant of my surroundings.
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#6 Post by PeterH »

I wonder how many die in traffic accidents in Europe every day.
Humans are very poor at judging relative risk.

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#7 Post by Niv Nissenson »

Being an Israeli - I can say that while a slight "edge" can sometimes be felt on the street - it's probably not constructive to dwell on it.
I'm sure that in a continent as large as Europe the probability of getting hurt by a terrorist attack are pretty slim...

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#8 Post by Eric LeVine »

Russell Faulkner wrote:
Tom Moore wrote:Leaving on Monday, 3/28 for Paris, Sicily, Tuscany. the US State Dept has issued a warning against travel to Europe for the immediate future.

Has it?
No. They have not. They issued an advisory. They have issued one in January and another one just 2 weeks ago. Be vigilant in public places. Avoid large public gatherings. Be wary of stray bags.
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#9 Post by Benjamin Hand »

Not only are you much more likely to die in a traffic accident, you're also much more likely to be shot by someone in the United States. I often wonder if European countries issue travel warnings to their citizens every time some nutjob shoots up an American shopping mall.

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#10 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum »

I think I read something stating your were more likely to die from complications from a routine prostate exam than a terrorist attack. Life is full of lurking dangers - they just don't really lurk where our imaginations place them.

Of course, being on the alert is a good idea regardless. But go to Europe. Every person who decides not to visit as a result of this attack is, to me, a small victory for the enemies of freedom and open exchange of cultures.
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#11 Post by George Hejna »

Agreed. Will be flying to Barcelona in a couple a months. Will it be on my mind as I walk through the airports and train stations..... sure. Will I change my plans. No way.

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#12 Post by Glenn L e v i n e »

I have performed more than 20K digital recital exams in my career without a fatality.
"Never lose sight of the fact that it is just fermented grape juice" - a winemaker and negotiant in Napa Valley, CA

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#13 Post by C. Mc Cart »

Man, how do you die from a rectal exam....
Actually don't tell me.
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#14 Post by David K o l i n »

Glenn L e v i n e wrote:I have performed more than 20K digital recital exams in my career without a fatality.
Can't wait for your biography, Glenn

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#15 Post by Glenn L e v i n e »

It's a memoir.
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#16 Post by Howard Cooper »

C. Mc Cart wrote:Man, how do you die from a rectal exam....
Actually don't tell me.
I was wondering the same thing??? Heart attack? [scratch.gif]
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#17 Post by Howard Cooper »

David K o l i n wrote:
Glenn L e v i n e wrote:I have performed more than 20K digital recital exams in my career without a fatality.
Can't wait for your biography, Glenn
Glenn - this will make a great title.
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#18 Post by Eric Ifune »

I have performed more than 20K digital recital exams in my career without a fatality.
I'm assuming this includes the 30 day period. [berserker.gif]

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#19 Post by Glenn L e v i n e »

Not certain of that Eric!
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#20 Post by Alan Rath »

Glenn L e v i n e wrote:I have performed more than 20K digital recital exams in my career without a fatality.
Something I've always wondered: do you get to keep any loose change you find?
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#21 Post by Nola Palomar »

Howard Cooper wrote:
C. Mc Cart wrote:Man, how do you die from a rectal exam....
Actually don't tell me.
I was wondering the same thing??? Heart attack? [scratch.gif]
I don't know, but probably not the DRE for the prostate exam, but rather a prostate biopsy, that increases the risk.
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#22 Post by Nola Palomar »

Howard Cooper wrote:
C. Mc Cart wrote:Man, how do you die from a rectal exam....
Actually don't tell me.
I was wondering the same thing??? Heart attack? [scratch.gif]
I don't know, but probably not the DRE for the prostate exam, but rather a prostate biopsy, that increases the risk.
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#23 Post by Glenn L e v i n e »

I'm certain that is the case too.
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#24 Post by Alan Rath »

I'm flying into Paris on the 31st. I always figure after an event like this is the safest time to travel. Security is up, and bad guys will want to lay low for a while.
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#25 Post by Glenn L e v i n e »

Hard to make it thru a day without at least one rationalization.
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#26 Post by Alan Rath »

Glenn L e v i n e wrote:Hard to make it thru a day without at least one rationalization.
Hell, I had to do that just to get out of bed this morning.
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#27 Post by Nola Palomar »

I'm at the winery in Spain right now and returning to the US through Madrid the day after tomorrow alone with my 12 year old daughter. I am nervous, no question about it. We fly on Iberia / American and that adds to my uneasiness.
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#28 Post by Glenn L e v i n e »

Alan Rath wrote:
Glenn L e v i n e wrote:Hard to make it thru a day without at least one rationalization.
Hell, I had to do that just to get out of bed this morning.
Lol, me too.
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#29 Post by Alan Rath »

Nola Palomar wrote:I'm at the winery in Spain right now and returning to the US through Madrid the day after tomorrow alone with my 12 year old daughter. I am nervous, no question about it. We fly on Iberia / American and that adds to my uneasiness.
Nola, as others have said, it's good to be aware and cautious. But remember that these events are extremely rare, and millions of people are traveling every day without incident. Honestly, I don't give it a thought when I travel, it's not something I allow to affect my daily life and emotional state.
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#30 Post by Nola Palomar »

I'm with you Alan, but I think because this just happened and reading about the deficiencies that were present recently in Brussels makes me doubt the efficiency of the security in Madrid as well. Just reading (and looking at the photos) that the two terrorists who were wearing a single glove and that it is apparently known in counter terrorism (that where they hide the detonation device) that that should have been a huge warning sign. But the security is quite inefficient and under staffed.
I'm going home and I'm not letting them dissuade me from traveling but I'm still nervous.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ssels.html
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#31 Post by Joe B »

Once you say to yourself, "well, i am not really in that much danger" its probably best to change your plans.

Safety 101 in just about anything includes "am I safe?" Which each one of us may answer differently based on our experiances in life.

The flip side though is that i have never asked myself that question when i travel to Napa.
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#32 Post by Alan Rath »

Joe B wrote:Onc you say to yourself, "well, i am not really in that much danger" its probably best to change your plans.
Depends on where you are and what you're doing, of course. Believing you're not in much danger walking through downtown Mogadishu is one thing, traveling through a major western airport another.

Nola, if you want to be as safe as possible, you can do some things that I believe are in your favor: get to the airport and check in early, and get through security while there are few people waiting in long AA check in lines. Avoid long security queues if you can. Once past security into the gates, things should be quite safe. I tend to avoid places where there are likely to be large groupings of Americans (like American-branded stores or restaurants, but that kind of goes without saying anyway ;) ). If you see army/security with heavy weapons, stay close to them [wow.gif]
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#33 Post by Nola Palomar »

We check in in Almeria and will pass security there. Barajas has essentially 2 airports, the Iberia terminal and the main international terminal. Iberia international flights leave from the Iberia terminal so IIRC I won't have to pass through security again, that's a plus.
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#34 Post by Steven Miller »

A hotel I stayed at in Jakarta was bombed 2 weeks after I stayed there. Many of my peers refused to travel because the risk is real, but other places are far more dangerous. In Central & South America being a victim of the violent drug trade & kidnapping is more likely than a terrorist act, but that rarely seems to stop anyone from traveling there.

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#35 Post by Michel Abood »

Absolutely travel to Europe, while of course keeping an eye out for signs of something amiss. As they say in the NYC Subway system, "If you see something, say something."

I was in Paris for a month from late January to late February, and they checked bags at the main department stores but not the subway or TGV stations (though as always lots of heavily armed police patrolling).

If you change your life on the off-chance of something happening, you are handing a victory to those who want to affect our lives.
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#36 Post by Barry L i p t o n »

My thoughts:

Is it safe?

Compared to what.

Compared to staying in bed, no.

Compared to driving in Orange County on the Freeway, much, much safer.

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#37 Post by ybarselah »

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:I think I read something stating your were more likely to die from complications from a routine prostate exam than a terrorist attack. Life is full of lurking dangers - they just don't really lurk where our imaginations place them.

Of course, being on the alert is a good idea regardless. But go to Europe. Every person who decides not to visit as a result of this attack is, to me, a small victory for the enemies of freedom and open exchange of cultures.
can we all agree that dying from a prostate exam is the worst way to die?
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#38 Post by ybarselah »

patrick c albright wrote:I am in Paris now.

Walking around the Marais, I feel pretty relaxed.
that's because you're not that cute.

champagne.gif champagne.gif
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#39 Post by Tom Moore »

Just spent last 4 days in Paris and all fears were squashed after arriving. There is military/police presence but not much more than usual.
We used Uber a lot and everyone of our drivers were of Muslim/Islamic descent and were a joy to talk with and very accommodating.
Life seems to be back to normal in Paris with the youth rioting in the streets and restaurants packed.
The world is a BIG place and what fear the terrorists have dispelled seem to be pretty minor in the whole scheme of things.

Confirmed - I love to travel!

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#40 Post by Karl_O'Donoghue »

Tom Moore wrote:Just spent last 4 days in Paris and all fears were squashed after arriving. There is military/police presence but not much more than usual.
We used Uber a lot and everyone of our drivers were of Muslim/Islamic descent and were a joy to talk with and very accommodating.
Life seems to be back to normal in Paris with the youth rioting in the streets and restaurants packed.
The world is a BIG place and what fear the terrorists have dispelled seem to be pretty minor in the whole scheme of things.

Confirmed - I love to travel!
Agree. I was in Sicily & Paris end Feb, then in Paris a few days before Brussels event, and will be in AMS, next week. More security apparent, and restaurants packed. Uber makes things a lot easier these days. Life is short, so drink/hunt for more/better wine :-)
Just like anywhere in a big city, whether at home or abroad, be aware of your surroundings and if something looks out of place, just walk away.

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#41 Post by EmmaGray »

Those places are considered as generally safe ones. But I would also be prepared, since in Italy, in general, are a lot of muggers and pickpocketers. So always, keep an eye on your belongings. Paris is, also, not a very safe place in these terms. So keep an eye on your belongings, and don’t take all your documents and money with you. Before visiting a new place I usually check here https://www.africanjacana.com/kuwait/. It was really helpful with my last trip to Kuwait. I knew the things I should be prepared for.
Last edited by EmmaGray on September 7th, 2020, 4:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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#42 Post by Victor Hong »

EmmaGray wrote: September 4th, 2020, 3:49 am Those places are considered as generally safe ones. But I would also be prepared, since in Italy, in general, are a lot of muggers and pickpocketers. So always, keep an eye on your belongings. My friend has been mugged Tuscany once. Someone took her bag with her passport and all her money and credit cards.
When traveling overseas, I always split my credit cards between at least my wallet and luggage.
Moreover, I load my passport onto US-approved phone apps, and save a detailed, color photocopy on multiple e-mail accounts.

This matters little now, as we 'Mericans can no longer travel out of our national sh1th01e.
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#43 Post by Paul @bbott »

My perception of risk is rather different, with Covid and BLM issues going on in the states I would suggest many Europeans would be asking if the US is safe to visit. Personally I enjoy travel and apart from known trouble spots would go anywhere

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#44 Post by George Hejna »

Post is over 4 years old.

George

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#45 Post by Rob Lynch »

Glenn L e v i n e wrote: March 24th, 2016, 7:08 am I have performed more than 20K digital recital exams in my career without a fatality.

How is this old gem not in a Hall of Fame?

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#46 Post by Ian Sutton »

EmmaGray wrote: September 4th, 2020, 3:49 am Those places are considered as generally safe ones. But I would also be prepared, since in Italy, in general, are a lot of muggers and pickpocketers. So always, keep an eye on your belongings. Paris is, also, not a very safe place in these terms. So keep an eye on your belongings, and don’t take all your documents and money with you.
That entirely depends on where you go in Italy, France and indeed any country.

If you only ever go to the big tourist destinations, along with the hordes of other transient tourists, then yes that is what creates a setting for pickpockets and bag-snatchers. Outside of these easy pickings, pickpocketing is simply not a viable career option.

Thus if going to any major tourist destination, take proper precautions and also extend that caution to public transport to/from that location. That would be true in Paris, New York, Amsterdam, Venice, London etc.

However, if you explore these countries away from the tourist hordes, then you'll find there is no such 'general' problem, general being a foreigner's perception based on the vast majority of tourists getting no further than Rome/Venice/Florence. If you go to St Omer, Utrecht, Aosta or Durham and you'll need no more precautions than you would at home, and for some of our home locations, quite a lot less.

Whilst your photo album may not contain an array of the most famous landmarks, the interaction with local people will be much more rewarding and especially in Italy, you can experience a level of hospitality that is exceptional. It's possible to do this without learning the local language, but making even a little effort goes a long way to being able to build a rapport with the people you interact with.

It's a choice that needs to be individual. For some the famous sites are vital to the experience, as is the ability to get by without a worry speaking, hearing and reading English. If that's the case, then the negatives that come from the mass tourist trail (poor quality food, dirtiness, crowds, petty crime) are to be tolerated for the positives.

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Ian
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Nola Palomar
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Re: Europe Travel - Safe?

#47 Post by Nola Palomar »

The south of Spain is having a really tough time right now. Travel restrictions, mask and distance mandate and curfew at night!
Our village Ugijar has about 2000 residents and are logging in 30-40 new cases. Only a clinic, no hospital less than an hour away.
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Re: Europe Travel - Safe?

#48 Post by Victor Hong »

Nola Palomar wrote: October 31st, 2020, 6:14 am The south of Spain is having a really tough time right now. Travel restrictions, mask and distance mandate and curfew at night!
Our village Ugijar has about 2000 residents and are logging in 30-40 new cases. Only a clinic, no hospital less than an hour away.
People under-estimate the conditional riskiness of the last point.
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Re: Europe Travel - Safe?

#49 Post by Ian Sutton »

be as safe as you can Nola (and indeed that goes for all forumites)
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Re: Europe Travel - Safe?

#50 Post by Nola Palomar »

Ian Sutton wrote: November 5th, 2020, 3:11 pm be as safe as you can Nola (and indeed that goes for all forumites)
Thanks, I’m in Dayton. I do a lot of management via zoom and WhatsApp. Not that where I live in Ohio is less dangerous (it isn’t)!
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