I do a little trading on the Commerce Board and enjoy the ins and outs of transactions. It is not always a perfect vehicle, and some of the claims made can be misleading. For instance Wine searcher with all the parameters available, the lowest price on Wine Searcher can be taken as anything from the lowest price in Arkansas, to the US, to world wide. Most of us have some form of Wine Searcher. So why not include whether you are you quoting the Pro site which has many more listings or the basic?
Auction prices also need to be defined. One recent post claimed an outlier high auction price as the “auction price” that was more than double the most recent sale. There was a reason why there was this high priced anomaly, it was sold in owc, which commands a serious premium. Because I subscribe to WMJ I can check these things, most people can’t. I think if we are going to use comparables to back up asking price, we should probably decide what protocols to use for them.
I think honestly, it is more work to regulate than it would be worth. The bottom line is that this is an open forum, and people will post what they want, misleading or no. I think fundamentally buyers are responsible for doing their own pricing research before buying, especially on more significant transactions (such as on the post you are referring to). That said, I think there is also nothing wrong with individuals calling attention to inappropriate or outlandish pricing.
I only take this attitude because I think the majority of prospective sellers price their offerings appropriately – I do not see this as a pervasive issue.
When I view prices, I look at WS pro low, non-auction US only (eliminating Massachusetts), and use the CT recent auction average…but I won’t bite on a listing if it doesn’t match these criteria
Convention can mean all sorts of things to all sorts of people. In general, I 100% agree with the not discussing listings for price or the like- even if you see something priced in a way you disagree with.
If something looks fake or suspect, that’s another issue in my mind.
I’ve never purchased anything of value without checking WS-Pro and the WMJ history. I’m a WMJ subscriber, and it is a great tool, and completely worth the annual fee.
I think most readers are savvy enough to know what’s a legitimate deal and who’s blowing smoke. Nobody is going to buy that $6.3k LT and if they do, they deserve what they get.
I don’t think we can or should set any rules of what to go by when people list bottles, however, I do think it might be useful to have a sticky or something with “Things to Keep in Mind About WS Pro and/or Auction Pricing.” Then someone who hasn’t used those tools much before can come up with more informed listings. I’m sure a number of people have tips, akin to what’s already been listed in this thread.
Similar to what Sarah said I think a reminder of certain things would be helpful. I think of this place as a community, albeit a virtual one, when I see posters flipping wines they just bought for 2 or 3x or listing wines at the high end of what retailers charge it really turns me off. If I buy from a retailer I know they have to make money to stay in business and I hope the total of my purchases will put me in good standing for allocated wines. When I buy from an individual I hope I save them a little money versus an auction or sale to a retailer and I save a little myself (win-win).
I think people should be able to list wine for whatever they want and I’m fine with the rules about not commenting re: price; that said, I do think fact checking comparison pricing should be allowed.
I haven’t used this forum yet, but occasionally look at things, so take this with a grain of salt. IMO, people should be able to list wines for whatever they want, and if you aren’t interested, just let them alone or make the seller a private offer. WineSearcher pricing is fluid, and depends on what’s currently available at that point in time, so what’s a “low” at one point might not be in a week or two. Or, it might seem like a better deal then. I think anyone buying or selling should do their appropriate research.
In the case of very expensive bottles and older bottles, as long as you trust the seller, it might even be worth a premium to purchase from a wine board participant over an online retailer. For example, if I were going to sell something, I could tell you the exact purchase date, where I purchased it and tell you that’s it’s been stored temp-controlled since 2001, for example. Those details mean a lot, as older wines at retail could have an unknown storage history.
I think nobody has a problem with somebody listing the wine for whatever they want. If you want to charge more than market because you know your provenance is perfect, fine. As long as it is clear, and unambiguous,
The important thing here is what else you put into the post. If the information to back up the pricing is deliberately misleading, but can imaginatively be justified, is that appropriate? If I have a wine that is everywhere on Wine searcher for $100, and there is a listing in Arkansas is $225, can I say Wine-Searcher low is $225?
In all due respect here is a real life example. I learn about a new wine that is outstanding and priced at about 1/3 of what it is worth. I come to wineberserkes and tell everyone about it. Many people from here buy it. Then word gets out and it is in high demand. I then see the same people offering it up on commerce corner for 3x what the paid for it? Just feels wrong.
I would agree if it’s blatantly false claim the community can point that out. Any long-standing member here would acknowledge the error and correct the statement. Flybys will do nothing, but who is buying big money wines from those folks anyways?
The problem is that these statements are not blatantly false, just deliberately misleading. I am glad that we can clarify and think that is enough going forward.
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