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B. Stokes
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Inherited collection

#1 Post by B. Stokes » July 23rd, 2016, 11:54 am

Hello all, as you can see I am new here. I have recently inherited hundreds of bottles of Bordeaux and need some help. I am wanting to keep all the stuff from the 1900's, but I have several bottles from the late 1800's that I don't need. I am hoping these bottles will help pay for some cellar upgrades and my upcoming twins. Would anybody be interested in the following?

1893 Chateau Margaux smaller bottle still in protective transport wire cage.

1889 chateau Larose
1889 chateau Pontet-Canet

Since I am a new user, I can't post the photos. I guess PM me and I can send plenty of photos. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Bo Stokes
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Ian Sutton
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#2 Post by Ian Sutton » July 23rd, 2016, 12:10 pm

Hi Bo
If there is any correspondence / receipts / invoices for these older wines it will help. Evidence of suitable cellaring and a paper trail back to purchase by your relative would be invaluable.

Such wines are not in my league, nor that of most here, but with the sort of provenance mentioned above, the top auction houses would be awfully interested.

... and welcome to the forum.

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#3 Post by Anton D » July 23rd, 2016, 12:10 pm

If they were real, those would be quite a find!

I wouldn't even pretend to sell them here, get thee to a legit auction house and have them inspected and evaluated.

The wine world is too fraught with fraud at this time to expect anything profitable to happen for you with private sales. A legit inspection could make a vast difference.
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#4 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » July 23rd, 2016, 12:17 pm

If you make a few more posts in some other threads you will be able to upload photos here. Certainly there are participants here who can opine about authenticity and value with some degree of expertise.
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#5 Post by alan weinberg » July 23rd, 2016, 12:19 pm

be sure the wines were and remain appropriately stored in a climate-controlled environment.

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#6 Post by B. Stokes » July 23rd, 2016, 12:27 pm

Luckily I inherited a nice 500 bottle cellar, and these wines have been in perfect condition since they were purchased. I don't have any paperwork, and I wouldn't know where to begin looking. I will try to find someone to assess them soon. I am curious about two of the bottles authenticity, but the chateau Margaux looks the part. Thanks all, Bo
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#7 Post by B. Stokes » July 23rd, 2016, 12:40 pm

I inherited a 500 bottle cellar and they are sitting in the mid 50's with perfect humidity right now. I'll try to get them assessed soon.
I am curious about the authenticity of two of the bottles because the labels look the same. The Margaux looks legit and has great looking hand blown glass. But yeah, I need professional help with this one.
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#8 Post by Chuck Miller » July 23rd, 2016, 1:34 pm

Bo, if you let us know where you are located, there may be some local auction houses we can refer you to that could come to you, or you could take the bottles to them, for evaluation.

You might be stretching things to say they 'have been in perfect condition since they were purchased' since they pre-date actively cooled cellars. If they have been recently purchased then there should be some records. If they have been owned within your family for the past hundred years or more, then the odds of them being fake go way down, but the odds of perfect storage are fairly slim. Then it depends on the conditions of the bottles themselves, which until pictures are posted or the wine is vetted by an auction house, is impossible for any of us to determine.
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#9 Post by Scott Everson » July 23rd, 2016, 1:56 pm

Post some pics!

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#10 Post by Brian Tuite » July 23rd, 2016, 2:00 pm

Scott Everson wrote:Post some pics!
B. Stokes wrote:
Since I am a new user, I can't post the photos. I guess PM me and I can send plenty of photos. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Bo Stokes
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#11 Post by B. Stokes » July 23rd, 2016, 2:26 pm

Chuck, I'm in College Station Tx. And you are right, I have no idea how they were stored prior to coming to the U.S. (I assumed a monk in the 1800's lived his life in some cave gaurding bottles like this :) jk) I know that the Margaux was purchased in France with a lot of More recent Bordeaux's. The house has already been sold, so everything that was stored in the office might be in the wind. I'm trying to track that down. Thank you so much for all your help so far.
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#12 Post by Andrew Kaufman » July 24th, 2016, 9:12 am

Something does not make sense here.

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#13 Post by Soren R Nielsen » July 24th, 2016, 1:21 pm

Post some sharp close-ups, and We will believe You. -And take a critical look at it.

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#14 Post by B. Stokes » July 24th, 2016, 2:54 pm

As I said before. I am a new member here and can't post photos. I sent one to Alan, so maybe he could post it in here. Or I could send them to you guys and y'all could post them. I joined this forum to get good advice, and I have done that so far. I understand your cynical look towards this. I'm not even sure that two of them are real, but then again I know absolutely jack about wine.
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#15 Post by alan weinberg » August 17th, 2016, 7:45 pm

whatever happened w this possible treasure trove?

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#16 Post by Jorge Henriquez » August 18th, 2016, 2:50 am

alan weinberg wrote:whatever happened w this possible treasure trove?
Plundered?
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#17 Post by B. Stokes » August 18th, 2016, 8:47 am

I have been really busy with vacations and work. Thea bottles are still sitting in my cellar. I am more than happy to email pics to anyone.
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#18 Post by vincentz » August 18th, 2016, 8:50 am

Alan- how did the bottle look from the picture sent to you? Any thoughts?

Vin

B. Stokes wrote:As I said before. I am a new member here and can't post photos. I sent one to Alan, so maybe he could post it in here. Or I could send them to you guys and y'all could post them. I joined this forum to get good advice, and I have done that so far. I understand your cynical look towards this. I'm not even sure that two of them are real, but then again I know absolutely jack about wine.
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#19 Post by Robert Chesnick » August 18th, 2016, 10:01 am

I live in the Houston area about 1 hour from College Station. I would more than happy to come take a look with a friend. I am certainly not an expert but my friend is knowledgeable and I can take pictures.

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#20 Post by scott c » August 18th, 2016, 10:33 am

Email the photos to Maureen Downey!
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#21 Post by p. raghib » August 22nd, 2016, 11:54 am

Andrew Kaufman wrote:Something does not make sense here.
Andrew,

I'm curious what doesn't make sense. I have no affiliation etc, but I've seen this situation a number of times. If I got hit by a bus tomorrow my family would be dealing with thousands of btls some of which are quite old. Would they be able to find the paper work for those btls? -no chance. I know exactly where they came from, but in many private transactions people don't write up receipts etc.

I agree that if he wants anywhere near fair value he should go to an auction house or send the list to a few places for review.

I do love the lines like "removed from 55' degree cellar" I know one individual who routinely has bought wines from marginal situations, they've gone into his cellar and then on to auction houses that list the wines as coming from a custom cellar etc. I suspect some people slept in ethics class growing up.

-paul
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#22 Post by Andrew Kaufman » August 22nd, 2016, 6:11 pm

Paul has the poster emailed photos as requested or permitted Ribert to come over for free to help out? Why wouldn't he contact a wine store or google wine appraisers for his local area? He doesn't know squat about wine but wants to keep all the wines from 1900 onward to help build out his wine cellar.

Someone who has the seemingly very expensive wines involved would leave to the wine to someone who knows nothing about wine and without any paperwork such as insurance or appraisals of what sounds to be a highly valuable collection?

He knows absolutely jack about wine but questions the labels on some of them?

Anything is possible.
Last edited by Andrew Kaufman on August 27th, 2016, 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#23 Post by Marc Frontario » August 23rd, 2016, 6:35 pm

Maureen Downey would be helpful here
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#24 Post by Chris Blum » August 23rd, 2016, 9:43 pm

Gil Lempert Schwarz would be even more helpful
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#25 Post by Justin Humphreys » August 24th, 2016, 7:39 am

Bo sent me pics of the 3 bottles he mentioned above, but not so sure how to add them here.
Drink up!

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#26 Post by Todd F r e n c h » August 24th, 2016, 7:55 am

Justin Humphreys wrote:Bo sent me pics of the 3 bottles he mentioned above, but not so sure how to add them here.
Below the part where you type text is an 'upload attachment' tab - use that
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#27 Post by Justin Humphreys » August 24th, 2016, 8:11 am

Ah, thanks Todd! Here they are. Thoughts?
Attachments
bo wine 3.jpg
bo wine 3.jpg (23.31 KiB) Viewed 2494 times
bo wine 2.jpg
bo wine 2.jpg (24.41 KiB) Viewed 2494 times
bo wine.jpg
bo wine.jpg (26.17 KiB) Viewed 2494 times
Drink up!

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#28 Post by B. Stokes » August 24th, 2016, 10:07 am

Guys, I have been super busy with business travels and vacation. Justin, thanks for uploading those three pics. I have contacted an auction house to try to assess some of these wines, but I haven't had a moment to follow up yet. And Andrew, the only paperwork we have found is a notebook with some handwriting in it about different bottles. The grandparents were private people, and I think this was just supposed to be a nice collection passed down to the grandkids. You are right, I don't know jack about wines, but I am a very good investigator. I brought up the bit about the labels because two of them look very similar, and I found that suspicious because they are from two different chateaus. Once I am back home I can take more photos and pass them along to someone. Thanks for everyone's help. I will try to contact Maureen soon for assistance.
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#29 Post by RichSteinberg » August 26th, 2016, 7:15 am

They look wicked cool
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#30 Post by AlbertH » August 27th, 2016, 9:34 am

I'm very interested in hearing what Maureen might say about these. I'm no professional, but they look odd to me... so many water stains (in irregular patterns that don't seem to follow water drops falling on bottles stored sideways) on the labels, yet all edges are sharp and linear on all the labels. I would have expected all labels to be heavily rotted/degenerated after 100+ years of appropriate storage.
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#31 Post by Poppy Davis » August 27th, 2016, 10:25 am

If someone wants to pay Maureen to evaluate them, I'm sure she would.

The photos above are insufficient to tell anything. Photos with a light behind the bottles showing the fill levels and color of the wine are needed.
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#32 Post by Ken V » August 27th, 2016, 1:27 pm

Bo, bottles like these would require a level of expertise that even few here on this board would possess. If your only goal is to sell them, then it makes sense just to contact an auction house. They would evaluate and authenticate them. I know of reputable auction houses in California, Chicago and NYC. There may also be one in Houston, which would be a lot more convenient for you.

Maureen Downey is one of the top experts, but I'm not sure why it would be in your interest to pay her to evaluate these. Any auction house that feels they are legitimate is going to try to sell them for the highest price possible since they make their money as a percentage of what you make. Also, wines like this are very rare, so the auction environment is the best way to get the attention of the largest number of specialized collectors.
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#33 Post by Walt Hoehler » August 30th, 2016, 9:28 am

Ken V wrote:I'm not sure why it would be in your interest to pay her to evaluate these.
Maureen's stamp of approval could add significant value to bottles such as these. Not sure what her fee would be but couldn't hurt to ask.

I might go so far as to try and contact the chateaux in this case.

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#34 Post by c fu » August 30th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Ken V wrote:Bo, bottles like these would require a level of expertise that even few here on this board would possess. If your only goal is to sell them, then it makes sense just to contact an auction house. They would evaluate and authenticate them. I know of reputable auction houses in California, Chicago and NYC. There may also be one in Houston, which would be a lot more convenient for you.

Maureen Downey is one of the top experts, but I'm not sure why it would be in your interest to pay her to evaluate these. Any auction house that feels they are legitimate is going to try to sell them for the highest price possible since they make their money as a percentage of what you make. Also, wines like this are very rare, so the auction environment is the best way to get the attention of the largest number of specialized collectors.
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#35 Post by Todd F r e n c h » August 30th, 2016, 8:09 pm

or just consign them with Gil Lempert-Schwartz - I'm sure you'll get top dollar, no authentication needed!!

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#36 Post by Soren R Nielsen » September 4th, 2016, 11:58 am

What little the photos show, looks genuine and aged to Me.
All three, are bottled by S Larcher Pere & Fils Jeune, - a larger negociant, at that time. -And still in business today.
The capsule, cork, fill and color, are very important factors, when evaluating the integrity, and quality.
This has to be done by experts, physically examining the bottles.

I hope You will post the results, when these interesting bottles go for sale.

-Soren.

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