New York City Restaurants

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Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1901 Post by Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ » February 28th, 2019, 9:15 am

Have never had a problem bringing bottles to Upland.

Quick aside: any vegetarian focused dinners that have had you blown away? Looking for one for a special occasion. Have thought about Kajitsu, Nix, Dirt Candy. Bonus points for corkage friendly!

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Robert Dentice
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1902 Post by Robert Dentice » February 28th, 2019, 9:33 am

Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:15 am
Have never had a problem bringing bottles to Upland.

Quick aside: any vegetarian focused dinners that have had you blown away? Looking for one for a special occasion. Have thought about Kajitsu, Nix, Dirt Candy. Bonus points for corkage friendly!
Aska! Chef Freddie is amazing with vegetables. I can't recall what the corkage is but it is reasonable for the caliber of restaurant.

I went to Nix once and did not like it all. It is that super heavy style of vegetarian cooking that tries too hard to over compensate for lack of meat. I felt gross afterwards.

Kajitsu is truly special and a unique experience. However I have not been since they changed chefs. Corkage allowed.

Also Contra offers a vegetarian menu (must order 24 hours in advance) that is fantastic. Corkage allowed.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1903 Post by Sh@n A » February 28th, 2019, 9:43 am

I am in the camp of having gone to Kajitsu a few years ago and still hating I went there and spent that money..

Maiolino has a decent chicken and has corkage. Just a thought.
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1904 Post by Robert Dentice » February 28th, 2019, 9:58 am

Sh@n A wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:43 am
I am in the camp of having gone to Kajitsu a few years ago and still hating I went there and spent that money..

Maiolino has a decent chicken and has corkage. Just a thought.
Curious why did you hate it? And did you know what type of cuisine they focus on beforehand?

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1905 Post by Sh@n A » February 28th, 2019, 10:37 am

What I remember was a very light meal with mushroom broth, mushroom, cabbage... etc. A very light meal where the dominant flavor was saline, mushroom, cabbage... on everything... and we left hungry and with a $450 bill for two or so. No one at the dinner, including the Japanophiles that booked the place, were impressed/happy. But perhaps, and this is reasonable, we could not simply appreciate it...
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1906 Post by Robert Dentice » February 28th, 2019, 11:14 am

Sh@n A wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 10:37 am
What I remember was a very light meal with mushroom broth, mushroom, cabbage... etc. A very light meal where the dominant flavor was saline, mushroom, cabbage... on everything... and we left hungry and with a $450 bill for two or so. No one at the dinner, including the Japanophiles that booked the place, were impressed/happy. But perhaps, and this is reasonable, we could not simply appreciate it...
Well it is a very specific style of Japanese Shojin cuisine:

Shojin cuisine refers to a type of vegetarian cooking that originates in Zen Buddhism.
Even though it does not use meat or fish, shojin is regarded as the foundation of all Japanese cuisine,
especially kaiseki, the Japanese version of haute cuisine. In its present form kaiseki is a multi-course
meal in which fresh, seasonal ingredients are prepared in ways that enhance the flavor of
each component, with the finished dishes beautifully arranged on plates.
All of these characteristics come from shojin cuisine, which is still prepared in Buddhist temples
throughout Japan.


The flavors you mention especially mushrooms in various forms are consistent with my meals there.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1907 Post by Sh@n A » February 28th, 2019, 11:34 am

Eating in a Buddhist temple probably not something that I would pay $250 to do... just not my cup of tea I guess.
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1908 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » February 28th, 2019, 11:55 am

It is very subtle, and based on a totally different sensibility than western cuisine. I get why not everyone likes it, and why lots of people go to Japan and are disappointed with some traditional high-end restaurants that have this sensibility. There is no philosophy of layering flavors, building sauces. It's about texture and simple flavors brought out in various ways. I like to think of it as the music of one instrument, or even just one perfectly pitched bell chiming, versus a symphony. When we are in Japan, my husband and I often talk about which friends we would bring to which places based on whether we think those people would have an affinity for the style. I'm really not knocking people for not liking it or connecting with what makes it special. It's tough.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1909 Post by Robert Dentice » February 28th, 2019, 1:16 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 11:55 am
It is very subtle, and based on a totally different sensibility than western cuisine. I get why not everyone likes it, and why lots of people go to Japan and are disappointed with some traditional high-end restaurants that have this sensibility. There is no philosophy of layering flavors, building sauces. It's about texture and simple flavors brought out in various ways. I like to think of it as the music of one instrument, or even just one perfectly pitched bell chiming, versus a symphony. When we are in Japan, my husband and I often talk about which friends we would bring to which places based on whether we think those people would have an affinity for the style. I'm really not knocking people for not liking it or connecting with what makes it special. It's tough.
Well said! A harp comes to mind...

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1910 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » February 28th, 2019, 3:35 pm

Robert Dentice wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:02 am
Stephen Starr has never impressed me with food quality.
Next time you are in Philly, check out Serpico.
Cheers,
/<evin


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~ Boëthius, in Consolation of Philosophy

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1911 Post by Robert Dentice » February 28th, 2019, 4:11 pm

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 3:35 pm
Robert Dentice wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:02 am
Stephen Starr has never impressed me with food quality.
Next time you are in Philly, check out Serpico.
Fair point. I have known Chef Serpico for years since his Momofuku Ko days. I went early on and was very disappointed knowing how talented he is. My last meal in Q4 last year was significantly better.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1912 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » February 28th, 2019, 4:19 pm

Robert Dentice wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 4:11 pm
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 3:35 pm
Robert Dentice wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:02 am
Stephen Starr has never impressed me with food quality.
Next time you are in Philly, check out Serpico.
Fair point. I have known Chef Serpico for years since his Momofuku Ko days. I went early on and was very disappointed knowing how talented he is. My last meal in Q4 last year was significantly better.
I've never had anything but a gloppy, disappointing meal there, and I've been there probably 6-7 times given how close we used to live, how much I wanted it to be good, and how many out of town guests wanted to try it. I knew him from Ko as well, and couldn't stand how mediocre and half-assed the food was, catering, IMO, to the lowest common denominator. Jonathan refused to go after the first two times, but I said yes again and again hoping for a change that never came.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1913 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » February 28th, 2019, 5:40 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 4:19 pm
Robert Dentice wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 4:11 pm
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 3:35 pm


Next time you are in Philly, check out Serpico.
Fair point. I have known Chef Serpico for years since his Momofuku Ko days. I went early on and was very disappointed knowing how talented he is. My last meal in Q4 last year was significantly better.
I've never had anything but a gloppy, disappointing meal there, and I've been there probably 6-7 times given how close we used to live, how much I wanted it to be good, and how many out of town guests wanted to try it. I knew him from Ko as well, and couldn't stand how mediocre and half-assed the food was, catering, IMO, to the lowest common denominator. Jonathan refused to go after the first two times, but I said yes again and again hoping for a change that never came.
Somehow, we knew Sarah couldn't resist repeating her out in left field opinion for the umpteenth time lol.
Cheers,
/<evin


"Ah! Dull-witted mortal, if Fortune stands still, she is no longer Fortune."
~ Boëthius, in Consolation of Philosophy

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1914 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » February 28th, 2019, 5:52 pm

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 5:40 pm
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 4:19 pm
Robert Dentice wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 4:11 pm


Fair point. I have known Chef Serpico for years since his Momofuku Ko days. I went early on and was very disappointed knowing how talented he is. My last meal in Q4 last year was significantly better.
I've never had anything but a gloppy, disappointing meal there, and I've been there probably 6-7 times given how close we used to live, how much I wanted it to be good, and how many out of town guests wanted to try it. I knew him from Ko as well, and couldn't stand how mediocre and half-assed the food was, catering, IMO, to the lowest common denominator. Jonathan refused to go after the first two times, but I said yes again and again hoping for a change that never came.
Somehow, we knew Sarah couldn't resist repeating her out in left field opinion for the umpteenth time lol.
Just as we knew Kevin couldn't resist insulting me for doing so.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1915 Post by mike c » February 28th, 2019, 6:43 pm

Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:15 am
Have never had a problem bringing bottles to Upland.

Quick aside: any vegetarian focused dinners that have had you blown away? Looking for one for a special occasion. Have thought about Kajitsu, Nix, Dirt Candy. Bonus points for corkage friendly!
I thought abcV was solid. believe they allow corkage as well
( |-| 0

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1916 Post by Robert Dentice » March 1st, 2019, 2:12 am

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 5:40 pm
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 4:19 pm
Robert Dentice wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 4:11 pm


Fair point. I have known Chef Serpico for years since his Momofuku Ko days. I went early on and was very disappointed knowing how talented he is. My last meal in Q4 last year was significantly better.
I've never had anything but a gloppy, disappointing meal there, and I've been there probably 6-7 times given how close we used to live, how much I wanted it to be good, and how many out of town guests wanted to try it. I knew him from Ko as well, and couldn't stand how mediocre and half-assed the food was, catering, IMO, to the lowest common denominator. Jonathan refused to go after the first two times, but I said yes again and again hoping for a change that never came.
Somehow, we knew Sarah couldn't resist repeating her out in left field opinion for the umpteenth time lol.
Well I don't know how left field Sarah's opinion is as I said the same thing I was being kind when I said I was very disappointed. And my last meal was better but Chef Serpico was there and I watched him personally oversee and inspect everyone of our dishes because he knows we are extremely serious foodies and regulars at Ko.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1917 Post by mark rudner » March 1st, 2019, 7:50 am

how does a chef talented enough to be at ko make marginal food at another restaurant. i've been eating at ko since long before the move to extra place
and the food's been consistently amazing since. is it that they have to "dumb it down" for the new owner, place, patrons, etc or does it just not work in a different format?
or something else?

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1918 Post by Robert Dentice » March 1st, 2019, 8:44 am

mark rudner wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 7:50 am
how does a chef talented enough to be at ko make marginal food at another restaurant. i've been eating at ko since long before the move to extra place
and the food's been consistently amazing since. is it that they have to "dumb it down" for the new owner, place, patrons, etc or does it just not work in a different format?
or something else?
Mark - I have thought about variations of this question many times. And I think one very important reason is that Chef's outside of big cities simply do not have the trained talent beneath them. A place like Serpico in NYC can pull from young chefs who have trained at the best restaurants in the world and have much more depth.

And also access to great ingredients.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1919 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » March 1st, 2019, 9:04 am

Robert Dentice wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 8:44 am
mark rudner wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 7:50 am
how does a chef talented enough to be at ko make marginal food at another restaurant. i've been eating at ko since long before the move to extra place
and the food's been consistently amazing since. is it that they have to "dumb it down" for the new owner, place, patrons, etc or does it just not work in a different format?
or something else?
Mark - I have thought about variations of this question many times. And I think one very important reason is that Chef's outside of big cities simply do not have the trained talent beneath them. A place like Serpico in NYC can pull from young chefs who have trained at the best restaurants in the world and have much more depth.

And also access to great ingredients.
Agreed Robert. Talent beneath you, access to ingredients, and price point (closely related) is part of it as well. It is much easier to produce amazing food at the Ko price point - or even several steps beneath - than at what most people in Philly, for instance, are willing to pay. There is very little high priced dining here. I also think, as Mark suggested, that there is an unfortunate "dumbing down" that takes places, with condescending and often unfair assumptions made about the dining audience.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1920 Post by RyanC » March 1st, 2019, 9:12 am

Robert Dentice wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 2:12 am
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 5:40 pm
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 4:19 pm


I've never had anything but a gloppy, disappointing meal there, and I've been there probably 6-7 times given how close we used to live, how much I wanted it to be good, and how many out of town guests wanted to try it. I knew him from Ko as well, and couldn't stand how mediocre and half-assed the food was, catering, IMO, to the lowest common denominator. Jonathan refused to go after the first two times, but I said yes again and again hoping for a change that never came.
Somehow, we knew Sarah couldn't resist repeating her out in left field opinion for the umpteenth time lol.
Well I don't know how left field Sarah's opinion is as I said the same thing I was being kind when I said I was very disappointed. And my last meal was better but Chef Serpico was there and I watched him personally oversee and inspect everyone of our dishes because he knows we are extremely serious foodies and regulars at Ko.
My meal at Serpico last year was not good. Basically as Sarah describes. My go-to spot in Philly has become the bar at Vernick.

I had quite a nice meal earlier this week at Benno in NY. Not going to change anyone's life but the food is well executed and the restaurant gets the little things right. Nice wine list, good service, nice room, etc. 2001 Musar was tasty.
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1921 Post by G. Keeler » March 3rd, 2019, 3:36 pm

Robert Dentice wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:02 am
R@y.Tupp@+sch wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 8:46 am
G. Keeler wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 8:19 am
Heading to NY next week for business. Have Wednesday night free but will be with a co-worker who might be the least adventurous person I’ve dined with. We are doing steaks Monday so would like to not just fall back on that again. I was looking at Le Coq Rico or Upland. Anyone with any recent experience at either or other suggestions? Staying at the St. Regis and willing to travel but maybe not all the way to downtown.
Walk ten minutes or take a car in five to Marea. Totally different menu than a steakhouse.
Marea is a good option. The Modern Bar Room is also a great option. Extremely diverse and reasonably priced wine list (keep in mind the prices include tip).

I have never been to Upland. I will say I have never heard anyone mention it in the foodie worlds I travel in and Stephen Starr has never impressed me with food quality. Le Coq Rico does have good birds but the whole experience is just ok. The Modern Bar Room is the only place I eat uptown willingly as well as the occasional lunch at Marea.
Thanks for the recommendations. The Modern and Marea are my two favorite restaurants in that part of town and have been to both numerous times. I took this guy to Marea once and he struggled. Not much of a seafood eater and the pastas were to “fancy” for him. I made a reservation for the Bar Room so we will see how that goes. I just checked and they have a filet on the menu so that should work for him.
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1922 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » March 4th, 2019, 2:48 pm

RyanC wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 9:12 am
My go-to spot in Philly has become the bar at Vernick.
LOL, I know I'm in the minority, but the two most over-rated restaurants in Philly are Vernick and Zahav. I've so tired about hearing about them in every single foodie article about Philly.

Jungsik was outstanding, although our Dominus was corked, so we bought a Gevrey-Chambertin off the list. They waived our corkage fees.

Someone was doing a big tasting of burgundies in the back room while we were there.
Cheers,
/<evin


"Ah! Dull-witted mortal, if Fortune stands still, she is no longer Fortune."
~ Boëthius, in Consolation of Philosophy

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1923 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » March 4th, 2019, 4:25 pm

Robert Dentice wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:02 am
R@y.Tupp@+sch wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 8:46 am
G. Keeler wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 8:19 am
Heading to NY next week for business. Have Wednesday night free but will be with a co-worker who might be the least adventurous person I’ve dined with. We are doing steaks Monday so would like to not just fall back on that again. I was looking at Le Coq Rico or Upland. Anyone with any recent experience at either or other suggestions? Staying at the St. Regis and willing to travel but maybe not all the way to downtown.
Walk ten minutes or take a car in five to Marea. Totally different menu than a steakhouse.
Marea is a good option. The Modern Bar Room is also a great option. Extremely diverse and reasonably priced wine list (keep in mind the prices include tip).

I have never been to Upland. I will say I have never heard anyone mention it in the foodie worlds I travel in and Stephen Starr has never impressed me with food quality. Le Coq Rico does have good birds but the whole experience is just ok. The Modern Bar Room is the only place I eat uptown willingly as well as the occasional lunch at Marea.
Starr does loud well and also does no corkage well.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1924 Post by Gil H » March 4th, 2019, 5:29 pm

Is chef table at Brooklyn fare worth the cost. I made a reservation but $1,300 for 2 is a lot for dinner. I’ve eaten at EMP and found it to be incredible but interested to hear how chef table compares.
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1925 Post by G. Keeler » March 5th, 2019, 3:39 am

We enjoyed BF much more than EMP. The type of the food and the whole vibe is much more our style at BF.
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1926 Post by Robert Dentice » March 5th, 2019, 3:40 am

Gil H wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 5:29 pm
Is chef table at Brooklyn fare worth the cost. I made a reservation but $1,300 for 2 is a lot for dinner. I’ve eaten at EMP and found it to be incredible but interested to hear how chef table compares.
If you value extremely high quality and unique ingredients then yes! I much prefer Brooklyn fare over any of the other three stars in NYC. The majority of what you pay goes into the cost of the superior ingredients.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1927 Post by Gil H » March 5th, 2019, 5:20 am

Great thanks. We have a counter reservation so should be great to watch them In action too.
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1928 Post by Robert Dentice » March 5th, 2019, 5:54 am

Gil H wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 5:20 am
Great thanks. We have a counter reservation so should be great to watch them In action too.
The wine list is also fairly priced with lots good options around $100-150.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1929 Post by Gil H » March 5th, 2019, 6:14 am

That’s good to know. Would you reccomend ordering from the list or going for the $200 wine pairing. We are 4 people and will probably drink a bottle each over the course of the meal.
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1930 Post by Robert Dentice » March 5th, 2019, 6:42 am

Gil H wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 6:14 am
That’s good to know. Would you reccomend ordering from the list or going for the $200 wine pairing. We are 4 people and will probably drink a bottle each over the course of the meal.
The food is easy to pair wine with so I would go with ordering bottles. However I generally have an aversion to wine pairings.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1931 Post by Gil H » March 5th, 2019, 6:54 am

Great thanks for the info
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1932 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » March 5th, 2019, 12:49 pm

I am having dinner with a chef friend tonight and he suggested JoJo, Jean Georges' first restaurant. I didn't know it still existed, and said as much to my friend. He told me he passed by it the other day and his surprise at seeing it still there was what made him suggest it. I am sure it's been 15 years since I was last there. I will be very curious, though I can't say my expectations are high.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1933 Post by Jay Miller » March 5th, 2019, 12:52 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 12:49 pm
I am having dinner with a chef friend tonight and he suggested JoJo, Jean Georges' first restaurant. I didn't know it still existed, and said as much to my friend. He told me he passed by it the other day and his surprise at seeing it still there was what made him suggest it. I am sure it's been 15 years since I was last there. I will be very curious, though I can't say my expectations are high.
I have fond memories of that restaurant. First place I had tuna tartare or molten chocolate cake (IIRC they have a strong claim to have originated the dessert). Also haven't been in a very long time. Curious to hear how it's doing.
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1934 Post by R@y.Tupp@+sch » March 5th, 2019, 1:02 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 12:52 pm
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 12:49 pm
I am having dinner with a chef friend tonight and he suggested JoJo, Jean Georges' first restaurant. I didn't know it still existed, and said as much to my friend. He told me he passed by it the other day and his surprise at seeing it still there was what made him suggest it. I am sure it's been 15 years since I was last there. I will be very curious, though I can't say my expectations are high.
I have fond memories of that restaurant. First place I had tuna tartare or molten chocolate cake (IIRC they have a strong claim to have originated the dessert). Also haven't been in a very long time. Curious to hear how it's doing.
It closed and reopened at the same location. I used to dine there about once a month in the mid-late '90's but haven't been there since (I think my 20 years have you beat Sarah :-) )
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1935 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » March 5th, 2019, 1:24 pm

R@y.Tupp@+sch wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 1:02 pm
Jay Miller wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 12:52 pm
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 12:49 pm
I am having dinner with a chef friend tonight and he suggested JoJo, Jean Georges' first restaurant. I didn't know it still existed, and said as much to my friend. He told me he passed by it the other day and his surprise at seeing it still there was what made him suggest it. I am sure it's been 15 years since I was last there. I will be very curious, though I can't say my expectations are high.
I have fond memories of that restaurant. First place I had tuna tartare or molten chocolate cake (IIRC they have a strong claim to have originated the dessert). Also haven't been in a very long time. Curious to hear how it's doing.
It closed and reopened at the same location. I used to dine there about once a month in the mid-late '90's but haven't been there since (I think my 20 years have you beat Sarah :-) )
We're both old. :)

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1936 Post by Jay Miller » March 5th, 2019, 2:05 pm

I went 2-3 times when they first opened which would place it around 1991-1993. So I think I have you both beat. Including in age and decrepitude. Why can't I ever win the fun contests?

It got a really good write up in the NY Times back when it opened. As I recall before that he was the chef at some hotel and was known for his vegetable based sauces.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1937 Post by carl klapper » March 6th, 2019, 3:06 am

Lafayette. I recall more than a few satisfying long lunches when my office was in the neighborhood. Remember as well the vegetable based sauces, and watching the kitchen at work through a glass partition. As for Jojo, I never warmed up to the place.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1938 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » March 6th, 2019, 6:58 am

Dinner at JoJo was fine, nothing special. We were upstairs. Both spaces are nicely lit and inviting, though things became loud when the place got full around 8. Service was friendly and efficient to the point of overly so – plates gone the instant you’re done, and next course is there seconds afterwards, which at least means the food was always hot. That said, they didn’t rush us out when we lingered over wine after dinner. Wine list left a lot to be desired, but there were a few okay options. I saw lots of cocktails going by from the bar and they looked decent. Food was fine. My appetizer of crab dumplings tasted pretty good, but the dough of the wrappers wasn’t evenly cooked, so the thicker parts where they sealed were underdone. I ended up with chicken as an entrée – not what I would have chosen, usually, but things got a little complicated with ordering food/wine – and it was well executed if not terribly interesting or inspired. Portions were generous. We did not have dessert.

All in all I think it’s a very safe and pleasant enough choice in the neighborhood, and would probably appeal to an older or unadventurous crowd. I will have it in the back of my head if I’m ever stuck for an idea in that part of town, but barring that, I doubt I’ll be going back.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1939 Post by Jonathan Kalman » March 6th, 2019, 8:01 am

First time at Racines on Monday evening and had a very good dinner and a bottle of the 2015 Tissot La Mailloche. Yesterday I had to be be at a meeting in Bushwick and on the recommendation of a friend ate lunch at Momo Sushi Shack on Bogart Street; it was surprisingly good.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1940 Post by Mike Cohen » March 6th, 2019, 8:15 am

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 2:48 pm
LOL, I know I'm in the minority, but the two most over-rated restaurants in Philly are Vernick and Zahav. I've so tired about hearing about them in every single foodie article about Philly.
Kevin,

I find Zahav to be consistently rock solid. It always meets or exceeds my expectations. Reminds me of Tel Aviv.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1941 Post by Mike Cohen » March 6th, 2019, 8:20 am

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 9:04 am
Robert Dentice wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 8:44 am
mark rudner wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 7:50 am
how does a chef talented enough to be at ko make marginal food at another restaurant. i've been eating at ko since long before the move to extra place
and the food's been consistently amazing since. is it that they have to "dumb it down" for the new owner, place, patrons, etc or does it just not work in a different format?
or something else?
Mark - I have thought about variations of this question many times. And I think one very important reason is that Chef's outside of big cities simply do not have the trained talent beneath them. A place like Serpico in NYC can pull from young chefs who have trained at the best restaurants in the world and have much more depth.

And also access to great ingredients.
Agreed Robert. Talent beneath you, access to ingredients, and price point (closely related) is part of it as well. It is much easier to produce amazing food at the Ko price point - or even several steps beneath - than at what most people in Philly, for instance, are willing to pay. There is very little high priced dining here. I also think, as Mark suggested, that there is an unfortunate "dumbing down" that takes places, with condescending and often unfair assumptions made about the dining audience.
Sarah and Robert,

I agree with all your points, but I would say that of all of them, price point (and what people are willing to pay to eat out) is the biggest factor. IMHO, when you get outside of NYC, SF, Paris, London, etc. there are simply fewer people that are willing to spend big dollars on eating out. I constantly wonder what could be done for a restaurant to put out high end meals on a smaller budget. In NYC, Olmsted comes to mind as a place where I've had some pretty tasty meals that showed a lot of technique, but didn't break the bank.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1942 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » March 6th, 2019, 9:05 am

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 12:49 pm
I am having dinner with a chef friend tonight and he suggested JoJo, Jean Georges' first restaurant. I didn't know it still existed, and said as much to my friend. He told me he passed by it the other day and his surprise at seeing it still there was what made him suggest it. I am sure it's been 15 years since I was last there. I will be very curious, though I can't say my expectations are high.
A good spot to bring a date, that's about it. Although I haven't been there in a couple of years.
Cheers,
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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1943 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » March 6th, 2019, 9:06 am

Mike Cohen wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 8:20 am
I agree with all your points, but I would say that of all of them, price point (and what people are willing to pay to eat out) is the biggest factor. IMHO, when you get outside of NYC, SF, Paris, London, etc. there are simply fewer people that are willing to spend big dollars on eating out. I constantly wonder what could be done for a restaurant to put out high end meals on a smaller budget. In NYC, Olmsted comes to mind as a place where I've had some pretty tasty meals that showed a lot of technique, but didn't break the bank.
Went to Olmsted for brunch on Sunday...everything was excellent!
Cheers,
/<evin


"Ah! Dull-witted mortal, if Fortune stands still, she is no longer Fortune."
~ Boëthius, in Consolation of Philosophy

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1944 Post by Barry L i p t o n » March 6th, 2019, 9:24 am

Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:15 am
Have never had a problem bringing bottles to Upland.

Quick aside: any vegetarian focused dinners that have had you blown away? Looking for one for a special occasion. Have thought about Kajitsu, Nix, Dirt Candy. Bonus points for corkage friendly!
Hi;

Yes I have, but in NYC, it's been Bouley (on more than one occassion). I've been to all three you mention, Kajitsu and Nix were excellent (but not blown away). Kajitsu was the most elegant and refind, but it didn't quite thrill my vegetarian wife , I think she thought it was too precious without innovative flavors (and I was hungry afterwards from Kajitsu, but not at the others). Dirt Candy has some dishes excellent, others not so much so depends on what you ordered.

I haven't been to Bouley Kitchen, but if the cost wasn't an obstacle, that's where I'd start.
Last edited by Barry L i p t o n on March 6th, 2019, 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1945 Post by Barry L i p t o n » March 6th, 2019, 9:40 am

Robert Dentice wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:33 am
Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:15 am
Have never had a problem bringing bottles to Upland.

Quick aside: any vegetarian focused dinners that have had you blown away? Looking for one for a special occasion. Have thought about Kajitsu, Nix, Dirt Candy. Bonus points for corkage friendly!


I went to Nix once and did not like it all. It is that super heavy style of vegetarian cooking that tries too hard to over compensate for lack of meat. I felt gross afterwards.
Perhaps it was what you ordered? Did you order off the vegan menu? Hard to be super-heavy without butter, cream, cheese, or egg yolks unless one is cooking with a real lot of oil or nut butters.

For example, the jicama ribbons on the menu were quite light if I recall correctly. Nothing I ate or saw seemed as heavy as vegetarian lasagna for example.
http://www.nixny.com/

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1946 Post by Robert Dentice » March 9th, 2019, 3:36 am

Barry L i p t o n wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 9:40 am
Robert Dentice wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:33 am
Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:15 am
Have never had a problem bringing bottles to Upland.

Quick aside: any vegetarian focused dinners that have had you blown away? Looking for one for a special occasion. Have thought about Kajitsu, Nix, Dirt Candy. Bonus points for corkage friendly!


I went to Nix once and did not like it all. It is that super heavy style of vegetarian cooking that tries too hard to over compensate for lack of meat. I felt gross afterwards.
Perhaps it was what you ordered? Did you order off the vegan menu? Hard to be super-heavy without butter, cream, cheese, or egg yolks unless one is cooking with a real lot of oil or nut butters.

For example, the jicama ribbons on the menu were quite light if I recall correctly. Nothing I ate or saw seemed as heavy as vegetarian lasagna for example.
http://www.nixny.com/
Don't recall what I menu I chose from. I used to feel the same when I ate at an all raw place called Pure Food and Wine and also a recent meal at Vedge. I think it is the use of things like coconut oil, cashew butter etc. To be clear I absolutely love vegetables and I enjoy going to places like Aska and selecting the vegetarian menu just to see what they will do.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1947 Post by Barry L i p t o n » March 9th, 2019, 8:06 am

Vegetarians in general love nut butters. And vegans love nut cheeses (as do I, but in small quantities). Neither is as heavy as vegetarian lasagna. I can understand someone not finding them digestible, or enjoyable, but there were many things I've at at PF&W over the years with many different people while they were around and this is the first time I heard them called super - heavy.

Each to their own.

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1948 Post by G. Keeler » March 9th, 2019, 8:59 am

Back from NY a few days ago. We ended up doing 3 dinners. First night a business dinner at Quality Italian (not my pick). Very loud and food was average to poor. 2nd night was another work dinner but at Ristorante Morini. I’ve always enjoyed eating here and think the 4 course menu is a relative value. I had a very nice chestnut soup to start, perfectly prepared veal agnolotti with mushrooms, dover sole for main and I was to stuffed for dessert so I skipped. Wine list has some good finds on it and service and space is always spot on. On the last night we ended up joining another larger group that wanted steaks so the Modern was out sadly. We ended up at Porter House which was fine for what it is and they handled our large group really well but seems like such a waste when there are so many interesting restaurants in NY.
G L E N N

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1949 Post by WvanGorp » March 9th, 2019, 2:59 pm

Glenn I love Porter House and would urge you to give it another shot when it’s you and one or two or three other people. Michael Lomonaco IMHO is one of the most talented under the radar chefs in nyc. The wine list is an embarrassment though in that it’s so oriented to expense account diners and the mark up outrageous.
Wilfred van Gorp

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Re: New York City Restaurants

#1950 Post by scott c » March 11th, 2019, 11:49 am

I forgot to mention that we ate at Bouley at Home three weeks ago and it was perhaps the most disappointing meal ever in terms of what we paid and what we received. It was almost comically bad -- we had to laugh our way through it to prevent us from getting really upset and making a scene.
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