Official kitchen knife thread
- alan weinberg
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Official kitchen knife thread
anybody own one? Been on wait list five years and just ordered/confirmed for KD-30L. Stoked.
Last edited by alan weinberg on November 4th, 2015, 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hattori knives
Not yet. I usually browse japanesechefsknife.com and occasionally knife forums in the kitchen section. Hattori has a good reputation. I see you got the petty size. Wow $480. cheaper than a Kramer I suppose. If I were to buy another knife (I really... must...resist....) I'd get a petty size. Please report back. I'm curious what you think of the fit and finish as well as any detailed touches.
Is Cowry the powdered steel? I haven't had much good luck with powdered steel. It microchips too easily but that could just be the producer and poor metallurgic process.
The chefs knife I tend to reach for the most often, is my Hiromoto Aogami Super 240mm gyuto.
Is Cowry the powdered steel? I haven't had much good luck with powdered steel. It microchips too easily but that could just be the producer and poor metallurgic process.
The chefs knife I tend to reach for the most often, is my Hiromoto Aogami Super 240mm gyuto.
C@r_y
Hattori knives
Hattori is one of those old school Japanese artisan knife makers. Health, age, and demand makes it a long wait.Michael S. Monie wrote:5 years? Are you getting a knife or a sword?
C@r_y
- Carlos Delpin
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Hattori knives
Alan:
You will be thrilled. My go to is a KD 33 and it is amazing. Took me a while to learn how to sharpen correctly but that is all on me. Enjoy!
CD
You will be thrilled. My go to is a KD 33 and it is amazing. Took me a while to learn how to sharpen correctly but that is all on me. Enjoy!
CD
- alan weinberg
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Hattori knives
Hattori is 73 and in poor health, has cut back production severely. I pretty much forgot I was on the wait list! They notified me recently. japanesechefsknife is indeed the site.
- alan weinberg
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Hattori knives
my wife may use it like a sword and gut me when she sees the purchase.Michael S. Monie wrote:5 years? Are you getting a knife or a sword?
- mattcitrang
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Hattori knives
Beautiful knives. Enjoy it.
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Hattori knives
Having used the Hattori HD and the Hattori FH, I mus say that I prefer the FH. Now the KD is another animal entirely, often with a fancier/heavier handle, leading to a more substantial feel in hand. It's a beautiful knife that should sharpen up well. I recommend learning how to hand-sharpen first (preferably on other knives that are easier to sharpen) and then later on sharpening the KD on your own. Otherwise, japaneseknifesharpening.com would be a great place to sharpen your knife for you.
What a great purchase! Treat your Hattori well!
(Personally, I use a Konosuke HD - a very different knife than the Hattori KD).
What a great purchase! Treat your Hattori well!
(Personally, I use a Konosuke HD - a very different knife than the Hattori KD).
- Jeremy Holmes
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Hattori knives
I still only get a postcard from them!alan weinberg wrote: Been on wait list five years and just ordered/confirmed for KD-30L. Stoked.
ITB
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
That's a nice pick up Alan. Those KD knives are beautiful, and I have always wanted one. I've been on the wait list for maybe 3-4 years, but I more or less gave up hope after Hattori became ill.
I've instead support the amazing American kitchen knife makers and put my money towards them now: (Ealy, Rader, Burke, Tsourkan, Ingoglia, Marr, Martell, HHH, Devin Thomas, Carter, Fowler, Rodrigue from Canada). A lot of those wait times can be around 2 years though, so it still takes time.
k.
I've instead support the amazing American kitchen knife makers and put my money towards them now: (Ealy, Rader, Burke, Tsourkan, Ingoglia, Marr, Martell, HHH, Devin Thomas, Carter, Fowler, Rodrigue from Canada). A lot of those wait times can be around 2 years though, so it still takes time.
k.
Hattori knives
It does look pretty awesome and much cheaper than Kramer's....
Hattori knives
At first I thought you were teasing Alan, and then saw it is actually called petty.CWun wrote: Hattori has a good reputation. I see you got the petty size. Wow $480..
![[new-here.gif] newhere](./images/smilies/new-here.gif)
Dan
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Hattori knives
Yeah, considering Kramer knives auction on eBay for 10k+, I'd certainly say so. There aren't many knives that make KDs look like a bargain, but Kramer is one of them.Jerry Hey wrote:It does look pretty awesome and much cheaper than Kramer's....
k.
Hattori knives
Wow, I had no idea about the world of knives. Interesting stuff. Think I'm gonna do more research and see if the wife wants something better than what she can find at W-S or Sur la Table. Some of the prices are eye popping, need to readjust what I think is expensive.
Joe
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
Yeah, it can be addicting. I think I have about 30 kitchen knives and most of them have been custom made or customized in some way.JKim wrote:Wow, I had no idea about the world of knives. Interesting stuff. Think I'm gonna do more research and see if the wife wants something better than what she can find at W-S or Sur la Table. Some of the prices are eye popping, need to readjust what I think is expensive.
The American custom makers right now are top notch. For non-American knives, probably one of -- if not the best vendors -- is Japanese Knife Imports out of LA. Custom knives usually run in the $400-2,500 range for a chef's knife depending upon maker. Knives from Japan are usually a bit cheaper, but they can get crazy expensive too.
Here is just one of my custom knives.
k.
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- alan weinberg
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Hattori knives
KM: that is one gorgeous blade.
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Hattori knives
Is there a resource to define all the Japanese knife terms ?
Hattori knives
Some of the stuff at SurLaTable is decent, and they let you try out knives on carrots and stuff so you get a real feel for the knife. In fact I use the 8" Zwilling Bob Kramer carbon steel chef knife quite a bit. For $350 it's a bit pricey for a production line knife, but the handle, balance, and blade quality fits great for me and will tie me over until I get off the Kramer waitlist.JKim wrote:Wow, I had no idea about the world of knives. Interesting stuff. Think I'm gonna do more research and see if the wife wants something better than what she can find at W-S or Sur la Table. Some of the prices are eye popping, need to readjust what I think is expensive.
But yeah...if you go to japanesechefsknife.com you can spend hours thinking about all the knives you "need" at reasonable prices.
C@r_y
- alan weinberg
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Hattori knives
some of those Kramer knives are crazy--$9000 auction price. What do the wait list knives cost and how long on the list to get a knife?
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
I'm not sure if you have to be a forum member to view these posts, but here is one glossary with various terms.Nick Gangas wrote:Is there a resource to define all the Japanese knife terms ?
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showt ... nife+terms
zknives also has a list of different types of J-knives and terms.
http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/ ... ndex.shtml
http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/ ... erms.shtml
k.
Hattori knives
Waitlist knives are custom. So it depends. The cost is by per inch of steel, damascus or not, and handle. So estimate of $300-700 per inch. Waitlist is by lottery and I haven't heard anything in the past few years.alan weinberg wrote:some of those Kramer knives are crazy--$9000 auction price. What do the wait list knives cost and how long on the list to get a knife?
A year ago, he was selling some "ready made" customs (no customizing). 10" carbon steel, no damascus, maple burl handle was $3450. 8" damascus was $5000.
C@r_y
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
Though Kramer makes some awesome knives, they are simply not worth the price IMO. You could get 2-3 custom knives made in half the time from an ABS mastersmith for the roughly same price.
Get on a Bill Burke and Michael Rader wait list instead. Great knives, less money, less wait.
k.
Get on a Bill Burke and Michael Rader wait list instead. Great knives, less money, less wait.
k.
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Hattori knives
Beautiful knives you got K-M; I really like that Damascus blade. Have you ever checked out Ed Caffreys work?
http://www.caffreyknives.net
http://www.caffreyknives.net
T~@~n**d~y
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
Those last two weren't mine, just examples. Sorry for the confusion.Rick.T wrote:Beautiful knives you got K-M; I really like that Damascus blade. Have you ever checked out Ed Caffreys work?
http://www.caffreyknives.net
Here is a handle lineup of some of my knives though.
k.
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Hattori knives
Quite beautiful items.
Hattori knives
Which ABS smiths would you recommend for kitchen knives?Karr!ng M o a n wrote:Though Kramer makes some awesome knives, they are simply not worth the price IMO. You could get 2-3 custom knives made in half the time from an ABS mastersmith for the roughly same price.
Get on a Bill Burke and Michael Rader wait list instead. Great knives, less money, less wait.
k.
C@r_y
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
The ABS smiths that have the most experience with kitchen knives are probably Kramer, Rader, and Bill Burke. Aaron Wilburn is another one that is coming up though, but he just got his ABS certification and hasn't done as much with kitchen cutlery. Kramers aren't possible to get really. Bill Burkes wait is about 2 years, Rader 1-1.5 years, and Wilburn probably less.
Just under the ABS makers are several very high quality makers. Devin Thomas, Randy Haas (HHH Knives), Butch Harner, Delbert Ealy, Stefan Fowler, and Pierre Rodrigue (out of Canada).
After that you have some extremely good boutique makers that will make very nice knives for reasonable prices. Adam Marr, Mario Ingoglia, Marko Tsourkan, Don Nguyen, and J. M. Jones among others. These are the best value. I love my Marr, Ingoglia, and Tsourkan. All three rank in my top knives.
With that said, kitchen knives are actually more difficult to make correctly than hunters or folders. The steel type, heat treatment, bevel angles, grind, taper, balance etc affect how a knife cuts and releases food. A lot of knife makers who use to make hunters started making kitchen knives in the last five years when the collector market dropped off and kitchen knives took off. They often made fairly crappy knives.
Anyhow, there are a lot of fine domestic makers now. I even have hand-forged damascus spoons, damascus cufflinks, and cocktail stirrers.
k.
Just under the ABS makers are several very high quality makers. Devin Thomas, Randy Haas (HHH Knives), Butch Harner, Delbert Ealy, Stefan Fowler, and Pierre Rodrigue (out of Canada).
After that you have some extremely good boutique makers that will make very nice knives for reasonable prices. Adam Marr, Mario Ingoglia, Marko Tsourkan, Don Nguyen, and J. M. Jones among others. These are the best value. I love my Marr, Ingoglia, and Tsourkan. All three rank in my top knives.
With that said, kitchen knives are actually more difficult to make correctly than hunters or folders. The steel type, heat treatment, bevel angles, grind, taper, balance etc affect how a knife cuts and releases food. A lot of knife makers who use to make hunters started making kitchen knives in the last five years when the collector market dropped off and kitchen knives took off. They often made fairly crappy knives.
Anyhow, there are a lot of fine domestic makers now. I even have hand-forged damascus spoons, damascus cufflinks, and cocktail stirrers.
k.
Hattori knives
Great info Karring. Just wondering as I'm a noob in this area, but do you use all the kitchen knives in the picture above? I was thinking maybe 2 or 3 at the most for general purpose. Actually, at those prices, thinking just 1. Don't need another expensive hobby and since my wife does the majority of cooking, it'll be up to her.Karr!ng M o a n wrote:The ABS smiths that have the most experience with kitchen knives are probably Kramer, Rader, and Bill Burke. Aaron Wilburn is another one that is coming up though, but he just got his ABS certification and hasn't done as much with kitchen cutlery. Kramers aren't possible to get really. Bill Burkes wait is about 2 years, Rader 1-1.5 years, and Wilburn probably less.
Just under the ABS makers are several very high quality makers. Devin Thomas, Randy Haas (HHH Knives), Butch Harner, Delbert Ealy, Stefan Fowler, and Pierre Rodrigue (out of Canada).
After that you have some extremely good boutique makers that will make very nice knives for reasonable prices. Adam Marr, Mario Ingoglia, Marko Tsourkan, Don Nguyen, and J. M. Jones among others. These are the best value. I love my Marr, Ingoglia, and Tsourkan. All three rank in my top knives.
With that said, kitchen knives are actually more difficult to make correctly than hunters or folders. The steel type, heat treatment, bevel angles, grind, taper, balance etc affect how a knife cuts and releases food. A lot of knife makers who use to make hunters started making kitchen knives in the last five years when the collector market dropped off and kitchen knives took off. They often made fairly crappy knives.
Anyhow, there are a lot of fine domestic makers now. I even have hand-forged damascus spoons, damascus cufflinks, and cocktail stirrers.
k.
Joe
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
I use a surprising amount of knives daily/weekly. The Japanese use knives for specific purposes. A honesuki for breaking down poultry, a nakiri for veggies, deba for breaking down fish, a petty for utility small item cutting, a gyuto for versatile prep work, and a sujihiki for slicing proteins. Of course one could use a gyuto chef's knife for most of it, but that isn't as much funJKim wrote:Great info Karring. Just wondering as I'm a noob in this area, but do you use all the kitchen knives in the picture above? I was thinking maybe 2 or 3 at the most for general purpose. Actually, at those prices, thinking just 1. Don't need another expensive hobby and since my wife does the majority of cooking, it'll be up to her.

Certain knives work better for certain tasks and if you cook a lot, you use them a lot. But it is also part of a whole process of learning to keep knives sharp, cut precisely, and prepare food more efficiently. I have one knife that I use always for charcuterie and another knife that is the best for onions. It just naturally occurs.
With that said, I could definitely get by on a few knives, but just as drinking a few wines all the time gets boring, a few knives don't do it for me either.
k.
Hattori knives
Cool. I was looking at Devin Thomas and Wilburn about a year ago, but couldn't bring myself to pony up the dough for a full custom. Maybe this year after the yearly bonus.
C@r_y
- W. Leonard
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Hattori knives
Definitely the standard response is one can get by with a 8-10" chefs knife (you can tell who are the Japanese fanatics because they always say Gyuto) and a paring knife (or a petty knife). Some tasks, such as slicing fish for sushi or sashimi, would definitely be better with a sujihiki lets say.JKim wrote:
Great info Karring. Just wondering as I'm a noob in this area, but do you use all the kitchen knives in the picture above? I was thinking maybe 2 or 3 at the most for general purpose. Actually, at those prices, thinking just 1. Don't need another expensive hobby and since my wife does the majority of cooking, it'll be up to her.
It's definitely more fun to use more knives, however if you have a lot of prep to bang out, that's a lot of knives you're going to be washing and drying for each task. Most of the pretty knives aren't stainless, so rust will form or a patina will form really quickly.
I'm lazy, so I'll use at most two knives in a prep session. I did own quite a lot of knives, but that's because it took me a lot of trial and error to find the knives that fit my hands, balance, and cutting needs.
C@r_y
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
I have two Murray Carter knives and love them. He no longer does custom work though, so you have to monitor his site and be quick. It is better to find Carter knives in the secondary market on one of the knife forums. I just used a carter a couple of hours ago.W. Leonard wrote:No one going to mention Murray Carter?
k.
- W. Leonard
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Hattori knives
I have a nakiri, thinking about a 6 3/4 in Funayaki sounds like I should go for it?Karr!ng M o a n wrote:I have two Murray Carter knives and love them. He no longer does custom work though, so you have to monitor his site and be quick. It is better to find Carter knives in the secondary market on one of the knife forums. I just used a carter a couple of hours ago.W. Leonard wrote:No one going to mention Murray Carter?
k.
warren@weygandtwines.com
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
This is true, and I have definitely been lazy in my life. If you want a stainless knife with low-maintenance care, Mario Ingoglia is top notch, Devin Thomas does stainless damascus and AEB-L blades (but it is expensive), and Pierre Rodrigue does a lot of stainless knives too in CPM 154.CWun wrote:It's definitely more fun to use more knives, however if you have a lot of prep to bang out, that's a lot of knives you're going to be washing and drying for each task. Most of the pretty knives aren't stainless, so rust will form or a patina will form really quickly.
I'm lazy, so I'll use at most two knives in a prep session. I did own quite a lot of knives, but that's because it took me a lot of trial and error to find the knives that fit my hands, balance, and cutting needs.
If you want an excellent deal on a knife right now, look at HHH knives (Randy Haas). He is doing a mid-tech (semi-custom) knife for $240. He may even have a deal coming this Monday. He made the damascus knife of mine up thread with meteorite.
http://www.hhhcustomknives.com/240mm-ae ... e-pre-buy/
k.
Last edited by Karr!ng M o a n on November 30th, 2013, 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
I have a nakiri and a Funayuki (200mm). The HG Funayuki is one of my favorites, and is wicked thin. I also got mine rehandled for some bling.W. Leonard wrote:I have a nakiri, thinking about a 6 3/4 in Funayaki sounds like I should go for it?Karr!ng M o a n wrote:I have two Murray Carter knives and love them. He no longer does custom work though, so you have to monitor his site and be quick. It is better to find Carter knives in the secondary market on one of the knife forums. I just used a carter a couple of hours ago.W. Leonard wrote:No one going to mention Murray Carter?
k.
k.
Hattori knives
Crap I think I might "have" to get it.Karr!ng M o a n wrote:This is true, and I have definitely been lazy in my life. If you want a stainless knife with low-maintenance care, Mario Ingoglia is top notch, Devin Thomas does stainless damascus and AEB-L blades (but it is expensive), and Pierre Rodrigue does a lot of stainless knives too in CPM 154.CWun wrote:It's definitely more fun to use more knives, however if you have a lot of prep to bang out, that's a lot of knives you're going to be washing and drying for each task. Most of the pretty knives aren't stainless, so rust will form or a patina will form really quickly.
I'm lazy, so I'll use at most two knives in a prep session. I did own quite a lot of knives, but that's because it took me a lot of trial and error to find the knives that fit my hands, balance, and cutting needs.
If you want an excellent deal on a knife right now, look at HHH knives (Randy Haas). He is doing a mid-tech (semi-custom) knife for $240. He may even have a deal coming this Monday. He made the damascus knife of mine up thread with meteorite.
http://www.hhhcustomknives.com/240mm-ae ... e-pre-buy/
k.
C@r_y
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Hattori knives
Thanks for this. So would you ever do stainless or is Damascus the way to go ?Karr!ng M o a n wrote:I'm not sure if you have to be a forum member to view these posts, but here is one glossary with various terms.Nick Gangas wrote:Is there a resource to define all the Japanese knife terms ?
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showt ... nife+terms
zknives also has a list of different types of J-knives and terms.
http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/ ... ndex.shtml
http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/ ... erms.shtml
k.
- alan weinberg
- GCC Member
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Hattori knives
are Shun knives any good?
Hattori knives
Ok. I gave in and bought one.Karr!ng M o a n wrote:......
If you want an excellent deal on a knife right now, look at HHH knives (Randy Haas). He is doing a mid-tech (semi-custom) knife for $240. He may even have a deal coming this Monday. He made the damascus knife of mine up thread with meteorite.
http://www.hhhcustomknives.com/240mm-ae ... e-pre-buy/
k.
![soap [soap.gif]](./images/smilies/soap.gif)
C@r_y
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
You can do a stainless damascus (Devin Thomas does it but it is spendy), but usually not so much. It is just your preference at the end of the day. Stainless is easy to care for, but a lot of knife geeks like the higher carbon, non-stainless as many of these steels are easier to sharpen and keep an edge. A knife in CPM 154 or AEB-L stainless steel are good steel options. Randy Haas (HHH), Devin Thomas, Pierre Rodrigue, and Mario Ingoglia all do knives in these steels, and maybe Adam Marr too. If you write any one of them, they will put you in a wait list. Ingoglia does awesome knives for the price. I couldn't recommend him more -- but honestly, I have knives from all of them and they are all better than anything you will get at W-S or SLT.Nick Gangas wrote:Thanks for this. So would you ever do stainless or is Damascus the way to go ?Karr!ng M o a n wrote:I'm not sure if you have to be a forum member to view these posts, but here is one glossary with various terms.Nick Gangas wrote:Is there a resource to define all the Japanese knife terms ?
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showt ... nife+terms
zknives also has a list of different types of J-knives and terms.
http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/ ... ndex.shtml
http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/ ... erms.shtml
k.
k.
Hattori knives
In general, at retail pricing I think they are not worth the price. At clearance pricing they might be okay values, but I'd rather get a knife from japanesechefsknife.com. I really like the Hiromoto Aogami Super lineup for the price and they are usually top sellers on that website.alan weinberg wrote:are Shun knives any good?
If you want to handle them first, at Sur La table you can try all the Shuns out and find the one that best fits your hand.
In terms of knives found at a Sur La Table, I think you get some decent value from the Zwilling Bob Kramer Carbon Steel chef's knife; it gets frequent use in my rotation.
C@r_y
- Karr!ng M o a n
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Hattori knives
Just keep in mind that most (though not all) damascus is 'grabby'. You sacrifice cutting efficiency for beauty -- and I am fine with that. Devin Thomas damascus is really really good and less grabby. Other boutique stuff has more 'stiction' (i.e., food release problems). It is the nature of mixing metal.
k.
k.
Hattori knives
This has been a very interesting thread. I want to get a new knife for the holidays. My budget is set at $200. What's my best options? I am very green in this area so any help would be a great help.
Ryan
Hattori knives
Actually after looking on the HHH site..maybe the 240 MM gyuto for $220 is the one..
Ryan
Hattori knives
if you do, sign up for a kitchen knife forums usernameR. Gaston wrote:Actually after looking on the HHH site..maybe the 240 MM gyuto for $220 is the one..
and after you order, post on the HHH sub forum in the cybermonday deal thread that you ordered. you'll get free shipping refund, and entry to a $100 gift cert.
it sounds like he really needs to sell through his estimated inventory.
C@r_y
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Which masahiro lineup from which website?Michael S. Monie wrote:Any thoughts on the Masahiro line in regard to utility?
I don't have experience with their products, but after a brief look at their products I'd skip buying them from Williams Sonoma and would skip buying their stainless steel stuff unless you absolutely needed stainless. Not sure what virgin carbon steel they use in their other lines.
It also depends on what you plan to do, your willingness to sharpen, etc...
C@r_y
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Hattori knives
http://www.knifemerchant.com/products.a ... uctLine=44CWun wrote:Which masahiro lineup from which website?Michael S. Monie wrote:Any thoughts on the Masahiro line in regard to utility?
I don't have experience with their products, but after a brief look at their products I'd skip buying them from Williams Sonoma and would skip buying their stainless steel stuff unless you absolutely needed stainless. Not sure what virgin carbon steel they use in their other lines.
It also depends on what you plan to do, your willingness to sharpen, etc...
Fly on, Little Wing.