It's been too long! Pizza!

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mike pobega
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1451 Post by mike pobega » August 6th, 2020, 2:43 am

Brian Tuite wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:23 pm
Mike I don’t understand how you get away with 70% hydration, I’m at 63% and my dough is sticky and wet. I made three pies last night and the first two didn’t cook enough and were doughy. The last one was better but I nearly had to burn it to get there. Rough night. 63% hydration 80% Caputo 00, 20% AP. 3% salt 2% EVOO, 20% sourdough starter. 96hr cold ferment.


B91F45AB-F546-4587-8B67-C10AADB67A9A.jpegE3C0744E-4298-4224-8709-46B61A62F71E.jpeg66123B25-F62C-4962-A0F1-826F053FC3B6.jpeg
Brian, I don't use my hands until the last steps in making my pies. I have learned to use two 6 inch paddles and do more of a fold than a knead if that makes sense. 70% is high for sure but it works best for me. I also think it helps create a bit more steam in the crust and airy dough but you seem to have that covered.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1452 Post by Michae1 P0wers » August 6th, 2020, 10:29 am

Linda Baehr wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:38 pm
Brian Tuite wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:23 pm
Mike I don’t understand how you get away with 70% hydration, I’m at 63% and my dough is sticky and wet. I made three pies last night and the first two didn’t cook enough and were doughy. The last one was better but I nearly had to burn it to get there. Rough night. 63% hydration 80% Caputo 00, 20% AP. 3% salt 2% EVOO, 20% sourdough starter. 96hr cold ferment.


B91F45AB-F546-4587-8B67-C10AADB67A9A.jpegE3C0744E-4298-4224-8709-46B61A62F71E.jpeg66123B25-F62C-4962-A0F1-826F053FC3B6.jpeg
Do you factor in the water in your sourdough starter in your hydration calculation?
I've had a much harder time when using starter as well. At first I thought my calculation was off but I've since thought my starter was over 100%. It's made me revert to store-bought yeast for the most part! Will try with the starter again at some point though.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1453 Post by Rich K0rz€nk0 » August 6th, 2020, 4:23 pm

Been working on upping my pizza game...
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1454 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 6th, 2020, 5:41 pm

Sourdough pepperoni. 3h RT, 18h CF, 3h RT. 700/750°F x 2 min 15 sec.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1455 Post by Bill Ackerman » August 6th, 2020, 10:15 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:23 pm
Mike I don’t understand how you get away with 70% hydration, I’m at 63% and my dough is sticky and wet. I made three pies last night and the first two didn’t cook enough and were doughy. The last one was better but I nearly had to burn it to get there. Rough night. 63% hydration 80% Caputo 00, 20% AP. 3% salt 2% EVOO, 20% sourdough starter. 96hr cold ferment.
~70% is what I use also and have no problems with stickiness. I see two potential problems with the 96-hour cold ferment. Some of the gluten structure you built during kneading will certainly have broken down after such a long time with such a large amount of starter, releasing water that had been bound up in the structure, hence the reason your dough is sticky and wet. Also, there are organisms in the starter culture that will be inactive at cold temps. Depending on your culture (each one is different), you may be losing some of the best flavors your culture has to offer by not exposing the dough to warmer temps. I have several cultures I use for pizza, but generally tend to use less than 5% starter, bulk ferment @ 60-65 for ~44 hours, proof @ 75F for ~4 hours.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1456 Post by Brian Tuite » August 7th, 2020, 6:10 am

Bill Ackerman wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 10:15 pm
Brian Tuite wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:23 pm
Mike I don’t understand how you get away with 70% hydration, I’m at 63% and my dough is sticky and wet. I made three pies last night and the first two didn’t cook enough and were doughy. The last one was better but I nearly had to burn it to get there. Rough night. 63% hydration 80% Caputo 00, 20% AP. 3% salt 2% EVOO, 20% sourdough starter. 96hr cold ferment.
~70% is what I use also and have no problems with stickiness. I see two potential problems with the 96-hour cold ferment. Some of the gluten structure you built during kneading will certainly have broken down after such a long time with such a large amount of starter, releasing water that had been bound up in the structure, hence the reason your dough is sticky and wet. Also, there are organisms in the starter culture that will be inactive at cold temps. Depending on your culture (each one is different), you may be losing some of the best flavors your culture has to offer by not exposing the dough to warmer temps. I have several cultures I use for pizza, but generally tend to use less than 5% starter, bulk ferment @ 60-65 for ~44 hours, proof @ 75F for ~4 hours.
I’ll adjust and see how things turn out next time. Thanks!
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1457 Post by Bill Ackerman » August 7th, 2020, 6:43 am

Brian Tuite wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 6:10 am
I’ll adjust and see how things turn out next time. Thanks!
Important to make small adjustments. Very small changes in temp, pH, etc. over a couple of days can make a big difference in the taste and texture of the final crust. And it is very easy to jump to the wrong conclusion about why a pizza is better or worse. I've done it a million times. Still doing it.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1458 Post by Brian Tuite » August 7th, 2020, 9:00 am

Bill Ackerman wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 6:43 am
Brian Tuite wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 6:10 am
I’ll adjust and see how things turn out next time. Thanks!
Important to make small adjustments. Very small changes in temp, pH, etc. over a couple of days can make a big difference in the taste and texture of the final crust. And it is very easy to jump to the wrong conclusion about why a pizza is better or worse. I've done it a million times. Still doing it.
Flavor was great, gave up on the 4th pie and made bread sticks out of the dough. They were really good. I’ll cut down on the ferment time as this one ran a day long and I’ll cut back on the starter. I’ll report back.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1459 Post by mike pobega » August 7th, 2020, 9:51 am

I also find that one change at a time helps in ones understanding of what is actually going on. I keep a notebook handy and make lots of notes to self.

My last 4-6 weeks of Pizza making has taught me much. My pie is certainly next level and that makes me quite happy but will I stop trying to improve? Never. Cheers!

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1460 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 9th, 2020, 3:24 pm

Ham & arugula sour dough thin crust.

To be honest, after 4 days cold ferment the sourdough for my "Neapolitan" had weakened and I didn't get much oven spring, so it ended up being a thin crust. Still delicious!

Day 1 is pictured in my post on Thurs below. Interesting how you can get completely different pizzas out of the same dough batch and they are both good.
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2020-0809 Pizzaiolo #11.4 (sourdough ham & arugula).jpg
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1461 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 12th, 2020, 9:07 am

Ham & shitake mushroom sourdough. Kneaded longer and changed up the fermentation times/temps, and did more of a canotto stretching technique to get a poofier crust.
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2020-0811 Pizzaiolo 12.3 (sourdough, long kneed, ham, shitake mushrooms, dry mozz, pecorino on edge).jpg
2020-0811 Pizzaiolo 12.3 bottom (sourdough, long kneed, ham, shitake mushrooms, dry mozz, pecorino on edge).jpg
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1462 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 22nd, 2020, 4:12 pm

Interesting how the micro spotting increases with time.

One batch of sourdough was balled and cold fermented 1 to 4 days before baking at 700°F deck/750°F dome x 2.5 - 3 min.

Order starting in upper left:
24h 48h
72h 96h
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1463 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 25th, 2020, 12:18 pm

Chicago-style deep dish with pepperoni, spicy-garlicy San Marzano sauce, sliced lmps-mozzarella, Parmigiano-Reggiano

100% KAAP
52% cold water
5% pork lard
2.57% salt
1% non-diastaic malt powder
0.57% IDY

5 hr RT bulk ferment; 350g balls; 19 hr cold ferment; RT temper 90m; partially roll out; 1h proof; press into carbon steel pan

19 min on Pan Pizza setting in Breville Pizziaolo (pepperoni added with 4m to go), top control =1
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IMG_2659.jpg
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IMG_2680.jpg
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1464 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 26th, 2020, 1:00 pm

Italian sausage deep dish, after 2 days cold ferment (prefer after 1)
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2020-0826 Pizzaiolo 13.2 (sausage deep dish).jpg
2020-0826 Pizzaiolo 13.2 side (sausage deep dish).jpg
2020-0826 Pizzaiolo 13.2 slice (sausage deep dish).jpg
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1465 Post by Pat Esposito » September 3rd, 2020, 7:54 am

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
August 25th, 2020, 12:18 pm
Chicago-style deep dish with pepperoni, spicy-garlicy San Marzano sauce, sliced lmps-mozzarella, Parmigiano-Reggiano

100% KAAP
52% cold water
5% pork lard
2.57% salt
1% non-diastaic malt powder
0.57% IDY

5 hr RT bulk ferment; 350g balls; 19 hr cold ferment; RT temper 90m; partially roll out; 1h proof; press into carbon steel pan

19 min on Pan Pizza setting in Breville Pizziaolo (pepperoni added with 4m to go), top control =1
This looks amazing, and I'm not really a Chicago Style fan. Going to have to put together some dough this weekend and fire up the oven!

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1466 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » September 3rd, 2020, 7:58 am

Pat Esposito wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 7:54 am
This looks amazing, and I'm not really a Chicago Style fan. Going to have to put together some dough this weekend and fire up the oven!
I'll send you a PDF of the recipe, from the head of a pizza cooking school in Chicago (also have a video, although there are some difference between the verbal and written recipes, and I followed the former for the most part).
Cheers,
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1467 Post by Pat Esposito » September 3rd, 2020, 7:59 am

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 7:58 am
Pat Esposito wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 7:54 am
This looks amazing, and I'm not really a Chicago Style fan. Going to have to put together some dough this weekend and fire up the oven!
I'll send you a PDF of the recipe, from the head of a pizza cooking school in Chicago (also have a video, although there are some difference between the verbal and written recipes, and I followed the former for the most part).
Appreciate it thanks!

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1468 Post by Linda Baehr » September 3rd, 2020, 2:08 pm

Pat Esposito wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 7:54 am
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
August 25th, 2020, 12:18 pm
Chicago-style deep dish with pepperoni, spicy-garlicy San Marzano sauce, sliced lmps-mozzarella, Parmigiano-Reggiano

100% KAAP
52% cold water
5% pork lard
2.57% salt
1% non-diastaic malt powder
0.57% IDY

5 hr RT bulk ferment; 350g balls; 19 hr cold ferment; RT temper 90m; partially roll out; 1h proof; press into carbon steel pan

19 min on Pan Pizza setting in Breville Pizziaolo (pepperoni added with 4m to go), top control =1
This looks amazing, and I'm not really a Chicago Style fan. Going to have to put together some dough this weekend and fire up the oven!
"Real" Chicago style deep dish pizza crust has a small amount of corn meal in it, though.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1469 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » September 3rd, 2020, 2:32 pm

Linda Baehr wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 2:08 pm
"Real" Chicago style deep dish pizza crust has a small amount of corn meal in it, though.
So you are going to tell Leo Spizzirri, a native Chicagoan who grew up in his family's Italian bakery, was the former executive chef at Giordano's (my favorite stuffed pizza in Chicago), and is founder of Chicago's North American Pizza & Culinary Academy where he teaches classes on how to make Chicago-style pizzas, that he's doing it wrong?

Better you than me (also an ex-Chicagoan).

[pillow-fight.gif]

By the way, I didn't use the Ceresota AP flour he actually recommended, which I think is higher protein.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1470 Post by Victor Hong » September 3rd, 2020, 4:40 pm

Linda is correct, as two black chefs began that ingredient practice.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1471 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » September 3rd, 2020, 7:02 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 4:40 pm
Linda is correct, as two black chefs began that ingredient practice.
Here's a whole page on the subject lol (who really gives a @#$% as long as it has pork fat in it???).

http://www.realdeepdish.com/2009/05-06- ... g-you-out/
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1472 Post by stevetimko » September 6th, 2020, 9:42 am

Typically what is the gluten content of the flours used to make these pizza doughs?
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1473 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » September 6th, 2020, 5:48 pm

stevetimko wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 9:42 am
Typically what is the gluten content of the flours used to make these pizza doughs?
Depends on the recipe and style. That Chicago-style was made with King Arthur All Purpose, which is 11.7%. I most commonly use King Arthur Bread Flour, which is 12.7%. Caputo Blue for Neapolitan is 12.5%. NY-style can use flours in the 13-14% range like All Trumps.

I did make a cauliflower dough pizza recently, which was 0%. But it's pushing it to call that dough lol.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1474 Post by J a y H a c k » September 7th, 2020, 1:45 pm

I know this is no big deal to you pizza experts, but to those of us who are pizza-challenged and who took a course in pizza making at the Culinary Inst. in Hyde Park (and would have gotten the grade of F if there had been grades), this is the greatest pizza ever made. Homemade sauce from San Marzano tomatoes, covered with pepperoni, a layer of shredded mozzarella, followed by a second layer of pepperoni. My grandson, who thinks that pizza is the only food better than McDonald's French fries, said it was very good.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1475 Post by Victor Hong » September 7th, 2020, 2:01 pm

J a y H a c k wrote:
September 7th, 2020, 1:45 pm
I know this is no big deal to you pizza experts, but to those of us who are pizza-challenged and who took a course in pizza making at the Culinary Inst. in Hyde Park (and would have gotten the grade of F if there had been grades), this is the greatest pizza ever made. Homemade sauce from San Marzano tomatoes, covered with pepperoni, a layer of shredded mozzarella, followed by a second layer of pepperoni. My grandson, who thinks that pizza is the only food better than McDonald's French fries, said it was very good.

Pizza.jpg
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1476 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » September 9th, 2020, 11:59 am

Cheated (this is Wegmans "White Pizza Dough"), but it actually tastes much better if you let the dough cold ferment for 24 hr first. Unfortunately, not very extensible.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1477 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » September 11th, 2020, 2:36 pm

In case anyone is interested, the legendary Peter Reinhart is doing a 2-hour Zoom pizza cooking demon at 3PM EDT next Friday Sept 18th, sponsored by Breville ($25).

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/virtual-pi ... linesearch

I attended one today by Ken Forkish, author of "Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast".
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1478 Post by ChrisL » September 14th, 2020, 12:49 pm

I was recently gifted this https://www.breville.com/us/en/products ... pz820.html, does anyone have experience with it? We have used the dough recipe that is included in the materials and it comes out decent but not quite the neopolitan chew I am looking for. The dough recipe that came with it calls for bread flour?
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1479 Post by ClarkstonMark » September 14th, 2020, 1:06 pm

ChrisL wrote:
September 14th, 2020, 12:49 pm
I was recently gifted this https://www.breville.com/us/en/products ... pz820.html, does anyone have experience with it? We have used the dough recipe that is included in the materials and it comes out decent but not quite the neopolitan chew I am looking for. The dough recipe that came with it calls for bread flour?
scroll through this thread, backwards, and you'll find lots of dough recipes.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1480 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » September 14th, 2020, 2:10 pm

ChrisL wrote:
September 14th, 2020, 12:49 pm
I was recently gifted this https://www.breville.com/us/en/products ... pz820.html, does anyone have experience with it? We have used the dough recipe that is included in the materials and it comes out decent but not quite the neopolitan chew I am looking for. The dough recipe that came with it calls for bread flour?
Score! I have one and it is a fantastic oven. You might check out the various Breville Pizzaiolo threads with 1000s of posts on PizzaMaking.com for guidance (WB's very own BillA is one of the resident experts on this oven).

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index ... ic=62536.0

I haven't tried the included recipe. The best pies I've made were based on King Arthur Bread Flower (this recipe: https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/li ... t-pizzeria), but I've been playing around with Caputo Blue recently, but it's still not where I want it. Here's my current recipe (made this pie for lunch today):

100% Caputo Pizzeria (Blue)
62% water (71°F)
2.9% salt
0.17% IDY

Dissolve salt in water; add 60% of flour/yeast; mix for 5m in KA on 1 while gradually adding remaining flour; hand kneed 5 min; FDT= 77°F; bulk ferment 74°F x 1h; ->3 x 250g balls; 41°F x 48hr (can do 24hr, but tastes much better at 48); proof/temper RT x 2h.

750°F deck/750°F° (top control = 5), open oven door for 15s about 2m before launching to kick temp >800°F, bake x 120s in '820 model, rotating 1X

I think I'll try upping the hydration a bit next time to try to get a puffier and softer crust (maybe increase the ball weight a bit too).
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1481 Post by mike pobega » September 21st, 2020, 4:44 pm

Just a bump. Detroit pie is where its at.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1482 Post by mike pobega » September 21st, 2020, 4:47 pm

Another bump. Pizza Margherita is where its at! (made with La Pinsa flour)
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1483 Post by Craig G » September 21st, 2020, 8:34 pm

Mike, that Detroit pie looks wickedly good (and I’m a thin crust person).
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1484 Post by Kenny H » September 22nd, 2020, 6:07 am

mike pobega wrote:
September 21st, 2020, 4:44 pm
Just a bump. Detroit pie is where its at.
Nice lines, very contemporary.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1485 Post by Scott Brunson » September 24th, 2020, 4:47 pm

The pizza dough from Geshem, our natural yeast sourdough starter, is working the slow rise in the fridge and will be ready on Sunday.
We’re cooking in the Ooni and are looking for some fun topping ideas; we like everything.
I have homemade hot sausage in the freezer.
Fresh fall tomatoes are not ripe yet.
We are open to new ideas.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1486 Post by cjsavino » September 24th, 2020, 5:32 pm

Scott Brunson wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 4:47 pm
The pizza dough from Geshem, our natural yeast sourdough starter, is working the slow rise in the fridge and will be ready on Sunday.
We’re cooking in the Ooni and are looking for some fun topping ideas; we like everything.
I have homemade hot sausage in the freezer.
Fresh fall tomatoes are not ripe yet.
We are open to new ideas.
Fresh ricotta,
Couple egg yolks with bacon sprinkled on it
Capicola
Eggplant
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1487 Post by Linda Baehr » September 24th, 2020, 6:57 pm

Scott Brunson wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 4:47 pm
The pizza dough from Geshem, our natural yeast sourdough starter, is working the slow rise in the fridge and will be ready on Sunday.
We’re cooking in the Ooni and are looking for some fun topping ideas; we like everything.
I have homemade hot sausage in the freezer.
Fresh fall tomatoes are not ripe yet.
We are open to new ideas.
I know this won't be something everyone will do, but I did a five day ferment of a bunch of tomatoes, and I did another of some mushrooms I grew. I did a pizza the other day with those two ingredients, plus some caramelized onions and bleu cheese, and holy umami bomb! It was good.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1488 Post by cjsavino » September 25th, 2020, 2:56 pm

C2B1CF24-C40D-4138-AE8C-AB683F875825.jpeg
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1489 Post by Victor Hong » September 25th, 2020, 4:20 pm

I see Jesus there.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1490 Post by mike pobega » September 26th, 2020, 4:49 am

My latest, documented here. It is exactly where I wanted my pizza to be and it only took about 10 years to get here. lol
I use La Pinsa flour for this Neapolitan/New York hybrid pie and it tastes just about exactly to my favorite in my neighborhood, Giove. Giorgio Giove the did help me very much get here and I am grateful to him. I will share it here with you pizza maniacs.

700 grams of Molino Dallagiovanna La Pinsa flour
480 ml coldest water
2.25 grams Paneangeli Mastro Fornaio for pizza
6 grams olive oil
20.5 grams sea salt, I use the pink


I weigh out the water with a large handful of ice cubes. I add the yeast and just about when the ice is fully melted I add 400 grams of flour, mix well and let sit for 30 minutes (Autolyse method). Once the 30 minutes are up I add the balance of flour and place into my Kitchenaid with dough hook for 10 minutes on #3 which as you know is higher than most recommend. What I have learned is the dough temperature while being made is a very important detail that helps the longs (48-96 hours cold ferment). After 3 minutes I add the salt. After 3 more I add the oil. I stop to scrape bottom if needed and continue to full time. Once done I oil the work area with a bit of olive oil and put some oil on my hands. I take dough onto deck and do the aggressive lift/fold/turn repeat process for 3-4 times. It goes back into bowl and gets covered at room temperature for two hours. I then cut into 300 +/- gram balls and fold once more and place into lidded container. Into the fridge they go. I have found that at two days they are just starting to rise and if cooked will not have the full character I see. On day four they are perfect and will last until 7 days which is only when I sense some extra wetness and a riper smell. Days five and six are Xanadu. If I have the forethought I will take one of these balls out 2-3 hours before cook and roll again and store at room temp. I find they gain a softness which I like working with and seem to tighten the gluten just a bit more.

The difference in this pizza process is the cold flour (which I store in fridge as well), the ice water, the no flour deck and 'oiled hands and deck' instead process.
This picture is last nights seven day dough, grated mozzarella, passata with just a bit of salt and dried oregano and a combo of Pecorino Romano and Parmigiano Reggiano and just a swirl of olive oil.

I do not wait for my weber with stone to come to full (700ish) temps but now start when it hits 550. I let this cook for 2-3 minutes spinning a bit and when the bottom starts to get the char spots I lif off the stone and put a screen under it and let it cook another 3-4 minutes until top goes golden crunchy like in photo. If there is anything not clear, please message me.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1491 Post by mike pobega » September 26th, 2020, 4:52 am

And Victor, in honor of the week we are in, I see a Shofar in my pie...

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1492 Post by Linda Baehr » September 26th, 2020, 5:08 am

I find the ice water interesting because in winemaking you want to acclimate your yeast to cold must gradually, and you generally don't want to add below mid ~50's without a loooong acclimation time.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1493 Post by Victor Hong » September 26th, 2020, 5:53 am

mike pobega wrote:
September 26th, 2020, 4:52 am
And Victor, in honor of the week we are in, I see a Shofar in my pie...
Well, Jesus was Jewish, no?
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1494 Post by mike pobega » September 26th, 2020, 6:02 am

Linda Baehr wrote:
September 26th, 2020, 5:08 am
I find the ice water interesting because in winemaking you want to acclimate your yeast to cold must gradually, and you generally don't want to add below mid ~50's without a loooong acclimation time.
So did I. It really slows down the process on the first 2 hour rest. Which I forgot to add.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1495 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » September 26th, 2020, 7:41 am

mike pobega wrote:
September 26th, 2020, 4:49 am
My latest, documented here. It is exactly where I wanted my pizza to be and it only took about 10 years to get here. lol
I use La Pinsa flour for this Neapolitan/New York hybrid pie and it tastes just about exactly to my favorite in my neighborhood, Giove. Giorgio Giove the did help me very much get here and I am grateful to him. I will share it here with you pizza maniacs.

700 grams of Molino Dallagiovanna La Pinsa flour
480 ml coldest water
2.25 grams Paneangeli Mastro Fornaio for pizza
6 grams olive oil
20.5 grams sea salt, I use the pink


I weigh out the water with a large handful of ice cubes. I add the yeast and just about when the ice is fully melted I add 400 grams of flour, mix well and let sit for 30 minutes (Autolyse method). Once the 30 minutes are up I add the balance of flour and place into my Kitchenaid with dough hook for 10 minutes on #3 which as you know is higher than most recommend. What I have learned is the dough temperature while being made is a very important detail that helps the longs (48-96 hours cold ferment). After 3 minutes I add the salt. After 3 more I add the oil. I stop to scrape bottom if needed and continue to full time. Once done I oil the work area with a bit of olive oil and put some oil on my hands. I take dough onto deck and do the aggressive lift/fold/turn repeat process for 3-4 times. It goes back into bowl and gets covered at room temperature for two hours. I then cut into 300 +/- gram balls and fold once more and place into lidded container. Into the fridge they go. I have found that at two days they are just starting to rise and if cooked will not have the full character I see. On day four they are perfect and will last until 7 days which is only when I sense some extra wetness and a riper smell. Days five and six are Xanadu. If I have the forethought I will take one of these balls out 2-3 hours before cook and roll again and store at room temp. I find they gain a softness which I like working with and seem to tighten the gluten just a bit more.

The difference in this pizza process is the cold flour (which I store in fridge as well), the ice water, the no flour deck and 'oiled hands and deck' instead process.
This picture is last nights seven day dough, grated mozzarella, passata with just a bit of salt and dried oregano and a combo of Pecorino Romano and Parmigiano Reggiano and just a swirl of olive oil.

I do not wait for my weber with stone to come to full (700ish) temps but now start when it hits 550. I let this cook for 2-3 minutes spinning a bit and when the bottom starts to get the char spots I lif off the stone and put a screen under it and let it cook another 3-4 minutes until top goes golden crunchy like in photo. If there is anything not clear, please message me.
Do you know what your final dough temperature is (when done mixing/folding)?
Cheers,
/<evin


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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1496 Post by mike pobega » September 26th, 2020, 10:33 am

I will check that next time, Kevin. its a good data point to have.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1497 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » September 26th, 2020, 12:47 pm

mike pobega wrote:
September 26th, 2020, 10:33 am
I will check that next time, Kevin. its a good data point to have.
My impression (but I'm not an expert) is that cooling the flour, water, etc is usually done to keep the final dough temp <80°F (I believe the maximum growth rate for baker's yeast is at ~79°F). In particular, using a mixer will increase the dough temp above this due to friction, unless the water (at least) starts at a lower temp. Obviously the rate of fermentation is also affected by the ambient temp (and dissolving the salt also significantly changes the temp). I've been tracking this and also sticking a probe into the dough ball during bulk fermentation just to see what happens (apparently small dough batches are dominated by the FDT and ambient, whereas big batches generate their own heat). If you are starting with ice water, you are probably getting a lot less growth during the initial 2h RT bulk step, and the dough will last longer in the fridge.

The "Dough Doctor" (Tom Lehmann) on PizzaMaking.com says FDT is one of the most critical parameters to follow and adjust to achieve consistent dough performance (but he's coming at this from a commercial perspective).
Cheers,
/<evin


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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1498 Post by mike pobega » September 30th, 2020, 3:34 pm

Kevin, this makes more sense now. My latest batch temped at 79 degrees F after the 2 hour first rest. The ice and cold flour temped 68 degree before the mixer stage. The ice cube cold water thing works for me with the long 4 plus day cold ferment. Homerun.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1499 Post by stevetimko » October 2nd, 2020, 8:42 pm

A guy I know who makes good pizza said the secret is using about 40 percent semolina and 60 percent all purpose flour. I searched through this thread. Some people use a smaller amount of semoloina. Often semolina is used for coating or dusting. What are the thoughts about semolina? Are there other flours used here not called semolina that perform much like semolina?
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1500 Post by mike pobega » October 3rd, 2020, 6:58 am

Steve, Durum wheat, I believe. The last La Pinsa proprietary blend I spoke of above has a listed durum wheat in ingredients.
I have used alongside flour one way or another to date:
semolina flour
soy flour
spelt flour
garbanzo flour
white and brown rice flours
whole wheat flour
Einkorn flour

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