It's been too long! Pizza!

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K_F_o_l_e_y
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1401 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » July 7th, 2020, 7:11 pm

Bill Ackerman wrote:
July 7th, 2020, 6:13 pm
I had the cloth on a Superpeel ignite into flames once in my WFO. Use with care near a live fire.
Even better, looks like you would have to stick your arm into a WFO to use it!
Cheers,
/<evin


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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1402 Post by Bill Ackerman » July 7th, 2020, 7:54 pm

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
July 7th, 2020, 7:11 pm
Bill Ackerman wrote:
July 7th, 2020, 6:13 pm
I had the cloth on a Superpeel ignite into flames once in my WFO. Use with care near a live fire.
Even better, looks like you would have to stick your arm into a WFO to use it!
Elbow-length firefighters' gloves.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1403 Post by Michae1 P0wers » July 8th, 2020, 11:18 am

Brian Tuite wrote:
July 7th, 2020, 6:54 am
I’ve had issues dealing with the dough sticking to my peel. I can’t find the right combo to get it to slide off unless I overdo cornmeal or flour as can be seen from the pic in my last post. Using a metal peel. Does wood work better for releasing the dough?
Brian, as many have said, wood releases much better, while metal is better for pulling the pizzas out of the oven. I've compromised with a composite peel.

A few things that have helped me with sticking.

First, I find that using cold sauce, having it refrigerated until use, helps. I often made sauce the same day I made the pizza. If it was still warm the dough would get very sticky from the warmth and moisture.

Second, and this is maybe obvious, but shake the pizza often on the peel. After you stretch it, give it a shake; after you sauce it, give it a shake; after you top it give it a shake. If any part sticks you can use a touch more flour there. As Bill says, work quickly too once you start.

Finally, I've started putting my pizzas on a baking cooling rack when they come out, the kind with the wire grid, to cool for a couple of minutes. This helps the crust stay crisper than if it cools on a flat surface, because there isn't any moisture trapped underneath the crust. This has the added benefit that a slight shake will take off excess flour or cornmeal. I worked at a pizza place when younger where we would give the pizzas a shake on fine, round screens when they came out to remove any excess. That's what gave me the idea.

I don't think I could transfer peels like Bill does in that video! Even if I did I'm not sure why it would particularly stick less to the second peel...

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1404 Post by Mike Davila » July 8th, 2020, 1:11 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
July 7th, 2020, 6:54 am
I’ve had issues dealing with the dough sticking to my peel. I can’t find the right combo to get it to slide off unless I overdo cornmeal or flour as can be seen from the pic in my last post. Using a metal peel. Does wood work better for releasing the dough?
We have both wood and composite peels, and the composite one is far superior when it comes to sticking. Also agree with the above recommendations to work fast and shake it often.
https://www.mugnaini.com/product/peel-1 ... composite/

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1405 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » July 10th, 2020, 7:06 am

I aged some fresh Colombian water buffalo mozzarella 3 months until it turned to the consistency of stracciatella and used it on a sourdough crust with spicy-garlicy San Marzano sauce, basil, chili flakes, black pepper, EVOO...very tasty
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1406 Post by Ken Strauss » July 11th, 2020, 6:07 pm

Dough from Whole Foods
Garlic and herb rub base with olive oil
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1407 Post by Ken Strauss » July 11th, 2020, 6:10 pm

White pizza
Fresh mozzarella and fresh ricotta in the wood fired grill.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1408 Post by mike pobega » July 14th, 2020, 7:19 am

Best dough I have EVER made, hands down. (And I have made some good ones). Proprietary blend from unnamed source but as best I can tell it's a duram, soy and rice mixture (bag says Pinsa). 70% hydration. 2 hour rest and then a 6 day cold ferment.
Topped with pomodoro, mozzarella and half with LaFrieda hot Italian sausages and marinated Calabrian peppers.

My latest dough journey has taken 19 months with tremendous experimenting resulting in some very good results and a few that flew into garbage can. This last dough just proves how little I have learned. It shows me that dough ain't so precious when you get to understand it. Must have tried 30 different flours and even more combinations. The proprietary Pinsa flour out of the bag is the perfect fit and while I can't purchase it myself in this country, I assure myself that once the 10 kilos that were gifted to me from a trusted source is gone, I will find more.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1409 Post by aaronhooker » July 17th, 2020, 3:23 am

I make pizza. But I do not know where do I lack. It looks good the texture but the taste, it is not as I expect it to be.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1410 Post by mike pobega » July 17th, 2020, 5:12 am

aaronhooker wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 3:23 am
I make pizza. But I do not know where do I lack. It looks good the texture but the taste, it is not as I expect it to be.
Hi Aaron, and welcome.
You could break it down to the ingredients. Always use the best available.
What is your topping/tomato game look like?
Whose dough are you using, store or your own?
Cheese?
I am actually speaking of a basic red cheese pie which I feel is where you can experiment with and compare easily. Once you have mastered those three and then the heat source, you will be happy.
PM me if you would like some help.
Mike

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1411 Post by Brian Tuite » July 17th, 2020, 6:48 am

aaronhooker wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 3:23 am
I make pizza. But I do not know where do I lack. It looks good the texture but the taste, it is not as I expect it to be.
If you’re referring to your crust you should try more salt. Face it, salt makes everything taste better. My last batch my salt was at 15% and the flavor was real good.
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1412 Post by mike pobega » July 17th, 2020, 6:56 am

Brian Tuite wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 6:48 am
aaronhooker wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 3:23 am
I make pizza. But I do not know where do I lack. It looks good the texture but the taste, it is not as I expect it to be.
If you’re referring to your crust you should try more salt. Face it, salt makes everything taste better. My last batch my salt was at 15% and the flavor was real good.
Brian, can that be right? Salt percentages should fall between 1.7% & 2.1%.. My 800gr flour gets 2.75% and even that is riding high.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1413 Post by Brian Tuite » July 17th, 2020, 7:09 am

mike pobega wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 6:56 am
Brian Tuite wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 6:48 am
aaronhooker wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 3:23 am
I make pizza. But I do not know where do I lack. It looks good the texture but the taste, it is not as I expect it to be.
If you’re referring to your crust you should try more salt. Face it, salt makes everything taste better. My last batch my salt was at 15% and the flavor was real good.
Brian, can that be right? Salt percentages should fall between 1.7% & 2.1%.. My 800gr flour gets 2.75% and even that is riding high.
Oops, 3% or 15 grams per 500 grams flour. Thanks for the math check Mike. The 15% was starter.
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

”Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my shit.” ~ Alfert

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1414 Post by T. Altmayer » July 17th, 2020, 8:39 am

Does the additional salt affect the rise? I’ve been wary about too much salt somehow impacting the yeast’s ability to do its thing.
Tom

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1415 Post by mike pobega » July 17th, 2020, 10:42 am

Tom, I have not noticed it. I no longer put salt I to water but add only after mixing half the flour with all the water and letting it sit for 5 minutes. No more salt vs yeast fights....lol

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1416 Post by Michae1 P0wers » July 17th, 2020, 11:52 am

mike pobega wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 7:19 am
Best dough I have EVER made, hands down. (And I have made some good ones). Proprietary blend from unnamed source but as best I can tell it's a duram, soy and rice mixture (bag says Pinsa). 70% hydration. 2 hour rest and then a 6 day cold ferment.
Topped with pomodoro, mozzarella and half with LaFrieda hot Italian sausages and marinated Calabrian peppers.

My latest dough journey has taken 19 months with tremendous experimenting resulting in some very good results and a few that flew into garbage can. This last dough just proves how little I have learned. It shows me that dough ain't so precious when you get to understand it. Must have tried 30 different flours and even more combinations. The proprietary Pinsa flour out of the bag is the perfect fit and while I can't purchase it myself in this country, I assure myself that once the 10 kilos that were gifted to me from a trusted source is gone, I will find more.
Looks phenomenal Mike.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1417 Post by T. Altmayer » July 17th, 2020, 1:13 pm

mike pobega wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 7:19 am
Best dough I have EVER made, hands down. (And I have made some good ones). Proprietary blend from unnamed source but as best I can tell it's a duram, soy and rice mixture (bag says Pinsa). 70% hydration. 2 hour rest and then a 6 day cold ferment.
Topped with pomodoro, mozzarella and half with LaFrieda hot Italian sausages and marinated Calabrian peppers.

My latest dough journey has taken 19 months with tremendous experimenting resulting in some very good results and a few that flew into garbage can. This last dough just proves how little I have learned. It shows me that dough ain't so precious when you get to understand it. Must have tried 30 different flours and even more combinations. The proprietary Pinsa flour out of the bag is the perfect fit and while I can't purchase it myself in this country, I assure myself that once the 10 kilos that were gifted to me from a trusted source is gone, I will find more.
For your six day ferment, are you just letting it rest at room temp for 2 hours to get the rise started and them putting it in the fridge? W
Tom

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1418 Post by Brian Tuite » July 17th, 2020, 1:35 pm

T. Altmayer wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 8:39 am
Does the additional salt affect the rise? I’ve been wary about too much salt somehow impacting the yeast’s ability to do its thing.
What do you think?

The only leavening I use is sourdough starter.
4B9654CC-287F-42F0-9D0B-5ACCE29F3F90.jpeg
81860FE7-7DA9-4081-9ADA-CDF2CF46953F.jpeg
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1419 Post by Brian Tuite » July 17th, 2020, 1:38 pm

mike pobega wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 10:42 am
Tom, I have not noticed it. I no longer put salt I to water but add only after mixing half the flour with all the water and letting it sit for 5 minutes. No more salt vs yeast fights....lol
I add the salt to the flour before ever mixing in water, starter or EVOO.
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

”Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my shit.” ~ Alfert

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1420 Post by T. Altmayer » July 17th, 2020, 1:38 pm

Looks great, love the rise on the edges and looks perfectly colored.
Tom

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1421 Post by mike pobega » July 17th, 2020, 2:06 pm

T. Altmayer wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 1:13 pm
mike pobega wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 7:19 am
Best dough I have EVER made, hands down. (And I have made some good ones). Proprietary blend from unnamed source but as best I can tell it's a duram, soy and rice mixture (bag says Pinsa). 70% hydration. 2 hour rest and then a 6 day cold ferment.
Topped with pomodoro, mozzarella and half with LaFrieda hot Italian sausages and marinated Calabrian peppers.

My latest dough journey has taken 19 months with tremendous experimenting resulting in some very good results and a few that flew into garbage can. This last dough just proves how little I have learned. It shows me that dough ain't so precious when you get to understand it. Must have tried 30 different flours and even more combinations. The proprietary Pinsa flour out of the bag is the perfect fit and while I can't purchase it myself in this country, I assure myself that once the 10 kilos that were gifted to me from a trusted source is gone, I will find more.
For your six day ferment, are you just letting it rest at room temp for 2 hours to get the rise started and them putting it in the fridge? W
Yes. mix, fold, rest 2 hr, cut and fold 6-7 times again. Then into fridge for cold nap

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1422 Post by Tony C » July 18th, 2020, 5:50 pm

Hi Mike - what difference have you found going from 3 days to 6 days cold ferment? Also, I noticed you went from 77% to 70% hydration. Any reason?

Thanks
mike pobega wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 7:19 am
Best dough I have EVER made, hands down. (And I have made some good ones). Proprietary blend from unnamed source but as best I can tell it's a duram, soy and rice mixture (bag says Pinsa). 70% hydration. 2 hour rest and then a 6 day cold ferment.
Topped with pomodoro, mozzarella and half with LaFrieda hot Italian sausages and marinated Calabrian peppers.

My latest dough journey has taken 19 months with tremendous experimenting resulting in some very good results and a few that flew into garbage can. This last dough just proves how little I have learned. It shows me that dough ain't so precious when you get to understand it. Must have tried 30 different flours and even more combinations. The proprietary Pinsa flour out of the bag is the perfect fit and while I can't purchase it myself in this country, I assure myself that once the 10 kilos that were gifted to me from a trusted source is gone, I will find more.
C @ r u c c !

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1423 Post by mike pobega » July 19th, 2020, 4:17 am

Hi Tony, the extra fermentation creates more depth of flavor are positive bread-like aromatics. My latest dough is best between 4-6 days in its current proportions.
The 77% was very wet and I did not notice any advantages to that added wetness. Trial and error has zeroed me into my latest and what I can say my best dough yet.
I have nearly eliminated 00 flour in my process and now use it mixed with white corn meal on the work bench when making the pizzas for the oven. I like the exterior texture.

If I needed pizza for tomorrow in a pinch, I would use my standby Manitoba flour mixed with the Caputo Americana. with less hydration and more yeast. Different pizza for sure but a pinch is a pinch.

Interestingly enough, I had a conversation with a well known pizza maker who told me that many professionals outside of Naples and not in the Vera Pizza Napoletana have moved away using 00. He mentioned carcinogens. I only trust Caputo now and when that is gone I will no longer replenish. I have about 8 pounds left.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1424 Post by Tony C » July 19th, 2020, 8:37 am

Thank you Mike. I’ve had great success following your method. 77% hydration has worked for me but I am using pans (Detroit & Al Taglio) at 550 degrees.

Also, I just purchased Manitoba flour which I am unfamiliar with. Why are you blended it with Caputo?

Thanks again.
mike pobega wrote:
July 19th, 2020, 4:17 am
Hi Tony, the extra fermentation creates more depth of flavor are positive bread-like aromatics. My latest dough is best between 4-6 days in its current proportions.
The 77% was very wet and I did not notice any advantages to that added wetness. Trial and error has zeroed me into my latest and what I can say my best dough yet.
I have nearly eliminated 00 flour in my process and now use it mixed with white corn meal on the work bench when making the pizzas for the oven. I like the exterior texture.

If I needed pizza for tomorrow in a pinch, I would use my standby Manitoba flour mixed with the Caputo Americana. with less hydration and more yeast. Different pizza for sure but a pinch is a pinch.

Interestingly enough, I had a conversation with a well known pizza maker who told me that many professionals outside of Naples and not in the Vera Pizza Napoletana have moved away using 00. He mentioned carcinogens. I only trust Caputo now and when that is gone I will no longer replenish. I have about 8 pounds left.
C @ r u c c !

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1425 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » July 19th, 2020, 1:27 pm

TONIGHT'S PIZZA: Spicy-garlicy San Marzano sauce, fresh Colombian water buffalo mozzarella, sliced garlic, chili flakes, black pepper, EVOO
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2020-0719 Breville Pizzaiolo #10.1 (buffalo mozz, garlic).jpg
Cheers,
/<evin


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~ Boëthius, in Consolation of Philosophy

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1426 Post by mike pobega » July 19th, 2020, 3:23 pm

Tony C wrote:
July 19th, 2020, 8:37 am
Thank you Mike. I’ve had great success following your method. 77% hydration has worked for me but I am using pans (Detroit & Al Taglio) at 550 degrees.

Also, I just purchased Manitoba flour which I am unfamiliar with. Why are you blended it with Caputo?

Thanks again.
mike pobega wrote:
July 19th, 2020, 4:17 am
Hi Tony, the extra fermentation creates more depth of flavor are positive bread-like aromatics. My latest dough is best between 4-6 days in its current proportions.
The 77% was very wet and I did not notice any advantages to that added wetness. Trial and error has zeroed me into my latest and what I can say my best dough yet.
I have nearly eliminated 00 flour in my process and now use it mixed with white corn meal on the work bench when making the pizzas for the oven. I like the exterior texture.

If I needed pizza for tomorrow in a pinch, I would use my standby Manitoba flour mixed with the Caputo Americana. with less hydration and more yeast. Different pizza for sure but a pinch is a pinch.

Interestingly enough, I had a conversation with a well known pizza maker who told me that many professionals outside of Naples and not in the Vera Pizza Napoletana have moved away using 00. He mentioned carcinogens. I only trust Caputo now and when that is gone I will no longer replenish. I have about 8 pounds left.
The Caputo Americana is a special blend made for 500-550 American ovens. Good browning from added malt.
I would try adding 10% spelt or farro flours to the Manitoba.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1427 Post by aaronhooker » July 20th, 2020, 11:56 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 6:48 am
aaronhooker wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 3:23 am
I make pizza. But I do not know where do I lack. It looks good the texture but the taste, it is not as I expect it to be.
If you’re referring to your crust you should try more salt. Face it, salt makes everything taste better. My last batch my salt was at 15% and the flavor was real good.
Thank You so much.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1428 Post by Brian Tuite » July 21st, 2020, 6:44 am

aaronhooker wrote:
July 20th, 2020, 11:56 pm
Brian Tuite wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 6:48 am
aaronhooker wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 3:23 am
I make pizza. But I do not know where do I lack. It looks good the texture but the taste, it is not as I expect it to be.
If you’re referring to your crust you should try more salt. Face it, salt makes everything taste better. My last batch my salt was at 3% or 15grams per 500grams flour and the flavor was real good.
Thank You so much.
Edited!
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

”Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my shit.” ~ Alfert

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1429 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » July 21st, 2020, 3:24 pm

Trenton NJ-style mustard pie, a la Papa's Tomato Pies in Robbinsville NJ, the oldest pizzeria in the US.

Mustard (Schwerter Senfmuehl Adrian), grated low-moisture mozz, tomato sauce on top, pecorino romano, black pepper, EVOO.
Attachments
IMG_1894.jpg
Cheers,
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~ Boëthius, in Consolation of Philosophy

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1430 Post by Tom DeBiase » July 22nd, 2020, 3:28 pm

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 3:24 pm
Trenton NJ-style mustard pie, a la Papa's Tomato Pies in Robbinsville NJ, the oldest pizzeria in the US.

Mustard (Schwerter Senfmuehl Adrian), grated low-moisture mozz, tomato sauce on top, pecorino romano, black pepper, EVOO.
Used to get that pie a lot when we lived in NJ. The Trenton location was the best.

Tom

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1431 Post by stevetimko » July 22nd, 2020, 10:40 pm

Anyone make Chicago thin crust pizza as is shown in this video?
Illegitimati non carborundum

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1432 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » July 23rd, 2020, 4:24 am

stevetimko wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 10:40 pm
Anyone make Chicago thin crust pizza as is shown in this video?
This is what we called "Tavern-style" in Chicago.

I took a Zoom pizza-making class from Leo Spizzirri and this was one of the pizzas he made. He used pork lard and malt in the dough (he was using the same dough recipe to make deep dish too). Also, after rolling out the dough half way, he let it sit between parchment paper for 1 hour and then finished stretching with his hands, rotating while it lay flat on the counter. He said this would preserve more air bubbles in the crust than rolling it out all the way, and would result in a crispier crust. He topped it with slices of mozz on the bottom, then sauce on top of the cheese. Finally, he cooked it on some sort of a square sheet so that the topping along the edge wouldn't dribble down and burn onto the stone. I need to figure out where he got these sheets...he said some place like "Bakery Supply".
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1433 Post by scamhi » July 23rd, 2020, 4:58 am

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 4:24 am
stevetimko wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 10:40 pm
Anyone make Chicago thin crust pizza as is shown in this video?
This is what we called "Tavern-style" in Chicago.

I took a Zoom pizza-making class from Leo Spizzirri and this was one of the pizzas he made. He used pork lard and malt in the dough (he was using the same dough recipe to make deep dish too). Also, after rolling out the dough half way, he let it sit between parchment paper for 1 hour and then finished stretching with his hands, rotating while it lay flat on the counter. He said this would preserve more air bubbles in the crust than rolling it out all the way, and would result in a crispier crust. He topped it with slices of mozz on the bottom, then sauce on top of the cheese. Finally, he cooked it on some sort of a square sheet so that the topping along the edge wouldn't dribble down and burn onto the stone. I need to figure out where he got these sheets...he said some place like "Bakery Supply".
Kevin,

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1434 Post by Linda Baehr » July 23rd, 2020, 4:28 pm

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 4:24 am
stevetimko wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 10:40 pm
Anyone make Chicago thin crust pizza as is shown in this video?
This is what we called "Tavern-style" in Chicago.

I took a Zoom pizza-making class from Leo Spizzirri and this was one of the pizzas he made. He used pork lard and malt in the dough (he was using the same dough recipe to make deep dish too). Also, after rolling out the dough half way, he let it sit between parchment paper for 1 hour and then finished stretching with his hands, rotating while it lay flat on the counter. He said this would preserve more air bubbles in the crust than rolling it out all the way, and would result in a crispier crust. He topped it with slices of mozz on the bottom, then sauce on top of the cheese. Finally, he cooked it on some sort of a square sheet so that the topping along the edge wouldn't dribble down and burn onto the stone. I need to figure out where he got these sheets...he said some place like "Bakery Supply".
You could use heavy duty foil.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1435 Post by R Roberts » July 23rd, 2020, 7:27 pm

I tried 10% spelt, the remainder Caputo 00. Lots of other variables however, including the ferment time and % hydration, so the results were inconclusive. What I found interesting is several of the bubbles collapsed 1-2 minutes after it was pulled from the oven. I've never seen that before. Any ideas as to the cause? Underdeveloped gluten?

Not the best photo, but you can see some moon surface like cratering in places:
IMG_9908.jpg
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1436 Post by mike pobega » July 24th, 2020, 9:21 am

R Roberts wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 7:27 pm
I tried 10% spelt, the remainder Caputo 00. Lots of other variables however, including the ferment time and % hydration, so the results were inconclusive. What I found interesting is several of the bubbles collapsed 1-2 minutes after it was pulled from the oven. I've never seen that before. Any ideas as to the cause? Underdeveloped gluten?

Not the best photo, but you can see some moon surface like cratering in places:
IMG_9908.jpg
How did it taste?
Looks good

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1437 Post by R Roberts » July 24th, 2020, 9:31 am

mike pobega wrote:
July 24th, 2020, 9:21 am
R Roberts wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 7:27 pm
I tried 10% spelt, the remainder Caputo 00. Lots of other variables however, including the ferment time and % hydration, so the results were inconclusive. What I found interesting is several of the bubbles collapsed 1-2 minutes after it was pulled from the oven. I've never seen that before. Any ideas as to the cause? Underdeveloped gluten?

Not the best photo, but you can see some moon surface like cratering in places:
IMG_9908.jpg
How did it taste?
Looks good
Thanks, it was tasty though think I need to ferment cooler and longer next time.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1438 Post by mike pobega » July 24th, 2020, 1:49 pm

R Roberts wrote:
July 24th, 2020, 9:31 am
mike pobega wrote:
July 24th, 2020, 9:21 am
R Roberts wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 7:27 pm
I tried 10% spelt, the remainder Caputo 00. Lots of other variables however, including the ferment time and % hydration, so the results were inconclusive. What I found interesting is several of the bubbles collapsed 1-2 minutes after it was pulled from the oven. I've never seen that before. Any ideas as to the cause? Underdeveloped gluten?

Not the best photo, but you can see some moon surface like cratering in places:
IMG_9908.jpg
How did it taste?
Looks good
Thanks, it was tasty though think I need to ferment cooler and longer next time.
Can you share your process? I am curious.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1439 Post by R Roberts » July 24th, 2020, 3:58 pm

mike pobega wrote:
July 24th, 2020, 1:49 pm
Can you share your process? I am curious.
I fire my pizzas in an Ooni Koda, and use Caputo 00 flour.

The process varies a bit- sometimes I'll add more or less yeast depending on how much time I have to ferment. Sometimes I'll ferment at kitchen temp, sometimes cellar temp, sometimes fridge temp (tho that's very rare for me lately). Typically I aim for a 36 hour ferment, though that's not based on a ton of experimentation- its just what I've currently arrived at that seems to be a sweet spot between logistical simplicity, good flavor development, and not worrying about the dough being overproofed.

The dough is 500g flour, 310g water, 9g salt, and maybe 3g yeast depending on the above. Combined in a stand mixer with a dough hook until its well combined, usually 1-2 minutes. Punched down once about half way through. Divided into 4 panetti an hour or two before stretching.

I launch with a cheap wooden peel, dusted with semolina. While I have a cheap round turning peel, these days I use a slotted Ooni peel, which seems to help purge some of the excess semolina I've come to rely on because my dough transfer and launching skills suck.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1440 Post by mike pobega » July 24th, 2020, 4:38 pm

Thanks for sharing. I think you may be using too much yeast for 500g flour hence the bubble-pop. You are 6% and probably should be closer to 2%, especially with a 36 hour rise. I would change that one thing alone and see using all else as normal. Once you get that in place lock down your fermentation. From my own experimenting, a 6 hour room temp 2nd fermentation is about the same as a 42 hour cold, and my fridge is cold. The only difference is the flavor. For me, the long cold is much better. As an example, I just made a great pizza with a dough that had spent 2 weeks in the fridge. I used .25% yeast. Yeah, WAY down but it works. I use 70% hydration, 2.875% sea salt and .75% olive oil.
Seems like you are on the right path and having fun with it.
Cheers!

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1441 Post by R Roberts » July 24th, 2020, 6:19 pm

Interesting, thanks for the suggestions. I'll give that a shot next time. I could certainly see an extended ferment, as well as a "strained" one in colder temps adding complexity. Its probably similar to winemakers letting wines ferment without added yeast, though I think a lot of them do it for the romantics/marketing and don't seem to understand the dynamics as to what's happening.

When you have a ferment that goes that long, how do you know when its in the ideal window for pizza making? And how long is the window in your experience? 70% hydration sounds really fluid. When you're ready to form panettis, do you toss them with flour, semolina, something else?
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1442 Post by mike pobega » July 24th, 2020, 6:46 pm

I mix white corn meal with any 00 I have around, maybe a 50/50 mix. Its wet, so I use a lot.
I get great texture with this technique.
I too don't fully understand the dynamics, I just find what works for me.

800 gr Flour
565 ml cold water
2 grams fresh yeast
6 grams olive oil
23 grams pink sea salt

I bloom the yeast for 5 minutes and add 50% of the flour and mix by hand. Its like pancake mix at this point. I let sit 5 minutes.
I then add the balance of the flour and use the KA with dough hook for 8 minutes. At the 2 minute mark I add the salt. At the 4 minute mark, the oil.
I rest it for a few and pour onto deck. With two paddles, I stretch, fold and spin/repeat for 9-10 times.
Place the whole ball into a bowl and cover for 2 hours, room temp.
I pour out and split 4 ways getting each ball into the 345 gr neighborhood.
Each goes into a Rubbermaid 1/6 size container with a loose fitting lid and into fridge they go.
On the day I intend to use them, 2 hours before I light oven I remove and split into 2 parts and roll into balls with some 00 on deck. (this is new to me but works really well, so I keep it).

I use the 50/50 mix and build my pie on the super peel. I have tremendous luck with that and do not need excess cornmeal/semolina etc, which does burn and is bitter.
That's my Neapolitan process. If making Roman or Detroit pizza I put the whole dough (Bulk cold ferment) into fridge and only after 2 full days do I split into 3 equal and back in for at least another day or two.

Cheers

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1443 Post by mike pobega » July 31st, 2020, 2:14 pm

Today's half Margherita and half zucchini flowers with yellow datterino tomatoes.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1444 Post by Dennis Atick » July 31st, 2020, 2:40 pm

mike pobega wrote:
July 24th, 2020, 6:46 pm
I mix white corn meal with any 00 I have around, maybe a 50/50 mix. Its wet, so I use a lot.
I get great texture with this technique.
I too don't fully understand the dynamics, I just find what works for me.

800 gr Flour
565 ml cold water
2 grams fresh yeast
6 grams olive oil
23 grams pink sea salt

I bloom the yeast for 5 minutes and add 50% of the flour and mix by hand. Its like pancake mix at this point. I let sit 5 minutes.
I then add the balance of the flour and use the KA with dough hook for 8 minutes. At the 2 minute mark I add the salt. At the 4 minute mark, the oil.
I rest it for a few and pour onto deck. With two paddles, I stretch, fold and spin/repeat for 9-10 times.
Place the whole ball into a bowl and cover for 2 hours, room temp.
I pour out and split 4 ways getting each ball into the 345 gr neighborhood.
Each goes into a Rubbermaid 1/6 size container with a loose fitting lid and into fridge they go.
On the day I intend to use them, 2 hours before I light oven I remove and split into 2 parts and roll into balls with some 00 on deck. (this is new to me but works really well, so I keep it).

I use the 50/50 mix and build my pie on the super peel. I have tremendous luck with that and do not need excess cornmeal/semolina etc, which does burn and is bitter.
That's my Neapolitan process. If making Roman or Detroit pizza I put the whole dough (Bulk cold ferment) into fridge and only after 2 full days do I split into 3 equal and back in for at least another day or two.

Cheers
Mike- So when you say 800 gr of flour, that is actually 400g of corn meal/400gr of flour? And...At What weight are you baking? You say you split the dough 4 ways to around 345 each before cold ferment. Then, each of those pieces gets split in 2? So you are rolling out a pie around 170g? That seems light. Or I am confused?. I'd like to try your ratios and process, so I'm curious.
Thanks.
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1445 Post by mike pobega » July 31st, 2020, 2:52 pm

Dennis, no. The flour I am using now is a proprietary blend from Italy that is unavailable unless you are a pizzeria/volume buyer. (duram, soy and rice flours)
I start 800 grams. Once added to the 565 ml (which happens to weigh 565 grams) and add 23 grams salt and 6 grams oil, lets call it 348 grams per ball. Since the pandemic has myself and the wife home, yes, I do split that when I make pizza. I like it a bit darker, so my pie goes last. So each of those weigh about 225 grams.
The cornmeal is used only on the bench minutes before making the pizza. I like the texture when mixed with 00
Cheers brother.

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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1446 Post by Dennis Atick » July 31st, 2020, 6:26 pm

Gotcha. Thanks Mike!
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1447 Post by Marshall Manning » August 5th, 2020, 6:39 pm

I used Mike Pobega's basic recipe to make my first dough in years on Monday, and made the first pie tonight. I slung pies for over 5 years in high school and college, but the dough recipes were "family secrets" so I've only made my own dough a few times and it's been years. For the first time, this turned out really well, with more chew than the fresh, local store-bought dough I've been using, and more bready, yeasty flavor. It started out on the wet side, so I had to use about 100g more flour than his initial recipe, and that made it more workable. I might like a little more air and bubbles throughout the crust, but I'm not one who likes the really thick outside crust...I want my toppings going almost to the edge. Here's our prosciutto, coppa, green olive and basil pie with red sauce and fresh mozzarella:
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IMG_0599.jpg
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1448 Post by Brian Tuite » August 5th, 2020, 9:23 pm

Mike I don’t understand how you get away with 70% hydration, I’m at 63% and my dough is sticky and wet. I made three pies last night and the first two didn’t cook enough and were doughy. The last one was better but I nearly had to burn it to get there. Rough night. 63% hydration 80% Caputo 00, 20% AP. 3% salt 2% EVOO, 20% sourdough starter. 96hr cold ferment.

B91F45AB-F546-4587-8B67-C10AADB67A9A.jpeg
E3C0744E-4298-4224-8709-46B61A62F71E.jpeg
66123B25-F62C-4962-A0F1-826F053FC3B6.jpeg
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1449 Post by Linda Baehr » August 5th, 2020, 9:38 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:23 pm
Mike I don’t understand how you get away with 70% hydration, I’m at 63% and my dough is sticky and wet. I made three pies last night and the first two didn’t cook enough and were doughy. The last one was better but I nearly had to burn it to get there. Rough night. 63% hydration 80% Caputo 00, 20% AP. 3% salt 2% EVOO, 20% sourdough starter. 96hr cold ferment.


B91F45AB-F546-4587-8B67-C10AADB67A9A.jpegE3C0744E-4298-4224-8709-46B61A62F71E.jpeg66123B25-F62C-4962-A0F1-826F053FC3B6.jpeg
Do you factor in the water in your sourdough starter in your hydration calculation?
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Re: It's been too long! Pizza!

#1450 Post by mike pobega » August 6th, 2020, 2:40 am

Marshall Manning wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 6:39 pm
I used Mike Pobega's basic recipe to make my first dough in years on Monday, and made the first pie tonight. I slung pies for over 5 years in high school and college, but the dough recipes were "family secrets" so I've only made my own dough a few times and it's been years. For the first time, this turned out really well, with more chew than the fresh, local store-bought dough I've been using, and more bready, yeasty flavor. It started out on the wet side, so I had to use about 100g more flour than his initial recipe, and that made it more workable. I might like a little more air and bubbles throughout the crust, but I'm not one who likes the really thick outside crust...I want my toppings going almost to the edge. Here's our prosciutto, coppa, green olive and basil pie with red sauce and fresh mozzarella:
Marshall, that is a pizza I could love. Good job!
If you are low on yeast, maybe boost a bit but be mindful of the longer cold fermentation because at some point it be become 'boozy'. I went 17 days with mine before it became unusable.
Try the high hydration again and use flat edge paddles and not your hands. More folding than kneading. I only rouch my dough after the full fermentation and it has been treated outside only with my 50/50 flour mix right before making it.
Last edited by mike pobega on August 6th, 2020, 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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