It's been too long! Pizza!

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Larry P
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It's been too long! Pizza!

#1001 Post by Larry P » June 8th, 2016, 5:31 pm

P. Willenberg wrote:
rfelthoven wrote:Larry -- incredible pizzas. You are the god of this thread. I bow down in honor!
I thought we were friends Ron
[rofl.gif] Thanks Ron!

I'll defer to Paul and Bill as the true masters here.
Last edited by Larry P on June 8th, 2016, 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#1002 Post by Larry P » June 8th, 2016, 5:39 pm

Last night I made an attempt at Detroit-style pizza, using residual heat in my oven from firing the night before. The oven was at about 400ºF which is a little cooler than I would have liked, but it is what it is.

Dough was 100% King Arthur Bread Flour, 77% spring water, 3% EVOO, 2.5% salt, 3.5% Camaldoli sourdough. I was targeting 275g dough ball, but this wet sticky dough caused me more waste than I'm accustomed to, and I ended up at 255g. Rose at room temp for 18 hours then punched down and pressed into a steel pan from Detroit Style Pizza Co, greased with coconut oil, and let rise another 6 hours. Cheese is a mix of low-moisture mozzarella, muenster, and mild cheddar. Sauce is Bianco di Napoli tomatoes, reduced with garlic, oregano, salt, pepper, and basil. Also added "field roast" which is a vegetarian Italian sausage substitute. This took about 18 minutes in the oven and popped right out of the pan. Not bad, actually the crusty cheese which is signature of the style was downright delicious, but the dough was a little flat and a little chewy.
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It's been too long! Pizza!

#1003 Post by P. Willenberg » June 8th, 2016, 6:19 pm

Did you remove it to a bakers rack? That might prevent the dough from steaming itself after cooking.

For example: https://www.instagram.com/emmysquaredpizza/
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#1004 Post by Larry P » June 8th, 2016, 11:04 pm

P. Willenberg wrote:Did you remove it to a bakers rack? That might prevent the dough from steaming itself after cooking.

For example: https://www.instagram.com/emmysquaredpizza/
Ah, I'm kicking myself. I came across that exact advice in my studies, but it had somehow left me by last night. Thanks Paul.

Four [swearing.gif] ingredients, what could go wrong?
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#1005 Post by P. Willenberg » June 9th, 2016, 6:52 am

I haven't even tried adding fat to the dough. Maybe once I perfect the 3 ingredient dough which I thought I had done, then you shook my foundation with the room temp vs fridge temp ferment.

I always remove all breads and pizza to a baker's rack.
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#1006 Post by Larry P » June 9th, 2016, 8:42 am

I don't add oil ever to my Neopolitan dough, but every Detroit Style recipe called for it. Not sure what it's bringing. Maybe I'll try it next time without the oil.
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#1007 Post by P. Willenberg » June 9th, 2016, 1:23 pm

Larry P wrote:I don't add oil ever to my Neopolitan dough, but every Detroit Style recipe called for it. Not sure what it's bringing. Maybe I'll try it next time without the oil.
I'm out of my element but I think the oil adds tenderness to the dough. Think about what it does to a pastry like a pie crust.
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#1008 Post by ybarselah » June 19th, 2016, 7:16 am

finally got a chance to play with the nerd chef pizza steel on a gas grill. added some wood on either side for additional heat and some flavor. These cooked in about 2 minutes at around 800F.

Classic Marg:

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White Clam (Franny's Style). This was off the charts.

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#1009 Post by Larry P » June 19th, 2016, 10:37 am

Looks excellent Yaacov. What are the details on the clam pizza?
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#1010 Post by ybarselah » June 19th, 2016, 10:39 am

thanks larry - basically this:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/clam ... ecipe.html

takes a lot longer to reduce, but otherwise really easy and insanely flavorful.
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#1011 Post by M.Kaplan » June 19th, 2016, 11:26 am

Yaacov,
The perfect summer evening accompaniment to those excellent pizzas would be smoked negronis. Hint hint.
---Mark

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#1012 Post by ybarselah » June 19th, 2016, 11:45 am

M.Kaplan wrote:Yaacov,
The perfect summer evening accompaniment to those excellent pizzas would be smoked negronis. Hint hint.
i hear you - i'm overdue this year. really slacking.
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#1013 Post by Michael Bowden » June 19th, 2016, 11:50 am

Those look excellent.
I'm taller than Zach Lang.

It's Michael.....not Mike, Mark, Mick, Mikey...get it? got it? good.

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#1014 Post by Sherri S h a p i r o » June 19th, 2016, 2:26 pm

That clam pie looks amazing!

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#1015 Post by Victor Hong » June 19th, 2016, 6:49 pm

Grilled Block Island clam and bacon pizza.
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#1016 Post by Larry P » June 19th, 2016, 10:37 pm

ybarselah wrote:thanks larry - basically this:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/clam ... ecipe.html

takes a lot longer to reduce, but otherwise really easy and insanely flavorful.
Thanks. Pretty close to the one I made a few pages back.
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#1017 Post by Kenny H » June 20th, 2016, 12:28 pm

Gorgeous YB. And thanks for the tip on the nerdchef steel, I LOVE mine.
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#1018 Post by P. Willenberg » June 20th, 2016, 2:28 pm

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#1019 Post by Kenny H » June 20th, 2016, 4:23 pm

Taco pizza. I use a black bean sauce and hummus for topping.

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#1020 Post by Scott Butler » June 20th, 2016, 5:01 pm

That Detroit style is my favorite, need to try and make it. Larry where did you get the pan?
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#1021 Post by M.Kaplan » June 20th, 2016, 10:05 pm

P. Willenberg wrote:Nice article on Neapolitan pizza

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... d3416b20b/
Neapolitan and pizza are redundant.
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#1022 Post by Larry P » June 20th, 2016, 11:09 pm

Scott Butler wrote:That Detroit style is my favorite, need to try and make it. Larry where did you get the pan?
http://www.detroitstylepizza.com/shop

I'm going to try another one tomorrow if all goes well with my dough.
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#1023 Post by Larry P » June 20th, 2016, 11:21 pm

Tonight's with roasted artichokes, dry-cured olives, cherry tomatoes, and fresh mozarella, then smoked salmon, basil, and EVOO post-bake. Inspired by a Carlo Sanmarco video on Facebook:


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#1024 Post by scamhi » June 21st, 2016, 4:47 am

really nice dough video demo from Joe Heffernan of Seattle. on Chef Steps.
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/li ... -131264733
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#1025 Post by Larry P » July 8th, 2016, 3:11 pm

Time for a bump!

Here's a few from the 4th:

#1 Margherita
#2 Figs, mozz, chevre, and post-bake chives and honey-balsamic reduction
#3 Mushrooms, roasted artichokes, garlic, fresh thyme, fontina, tallegio, and post-bake baby arugula
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#1026 Post by Dennis Atick » July 10th, 2016, 10:17 am

Wow. Larry! Outstanding.
Want!
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#1027 Post by Larry P » July 10th, 2016, 11:41 am

Thanks Dennis!
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#1028 Post by Larry P » July 10th, 2016, 11:43 am

Kenny H wrote:Taco pizza. I use a black bean sauce and hummus for topping.

Image
Gorgeous pie! Sorry I missed it until now. A pizza place outside Detroit used to have a black bean Southwestern-style pie that was phenomenal. We've tried to reproduce it but never get it right.
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#1029 Post by Kenny H » July 11th, 2016, 9:39 pm

Larry P wrote:
Kenny H wrote:Taco pizza. I use a black bean sauce and hummus for topping.

Image
Gorgeous pie! Sorry I missed it until now. A pizza place outside Detroit used to have a black bean Southwestern-style pie that was phenomenal. We've tried to reproduce it but never get it right.
Heck Larry, I missed your 4th pizzas until now. Holy cow. Un-be-liev-a-ble. Can't build my oven soon enough.

I'll PM you on the sauce. It's a bit of process on the black bean side, however, you can cheat with Trader Joe's spicy black bean dip. But yeah, as far as the taco style goes, it's tough to beat. I typically do it vegetarian and I've had people ask what's in the meat. There is none!
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#1030 Post by Matt Thomas » July 13th, 2016, 12:06 pm

For those of you who make really hydrated doughs, how do you get them off your peel, without having an excess of flour on the bottom of your pizza?

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#1031 Post by P. Willenberg » July 13th, 2016, 1:01 pm

Matt Thomas wrote:For those of you who make really hydrated doughs, how do you get them off your peel, without having an excess of flour on the bottom of your pizza?
yes, lots of flour. don't forget most comes off on the stone anyhow but the most important area to flour is the area between the front edge of your pizza and the front edge of the peel

other tricks:
- don't drop the dough until it's fully formed, keeping it in the air and on your hands until it's ready to top
- work FAST
- jiggle/jerk during topping phase at least once to certify you're still able to move it, adding heaviest toppings last and/or sparsely
-blow a pocket of air under the dough just before launch
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#1032 Post by rfelthoven » July 13th, 2016, 2:17 pm

Using semolina or even rice flour can also help keep things loose if you're not a fan of a lot of white wheat flour on the bottom.

And sorry, Paul, about calling Larry the king of this thread. Your input is awesome and you've shared the most by far. And we are friends!! But Larry's execution is amazing!
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#1033 Post by P. Willenberg » July 13th, 2016, 2:50 pm

rfelthoven wrote:Using semolina or even rice flour can also help keep things loose if you're not a fan of a lot of white wheat flour on the bottom.

And sorry, Paul, about calling Larry the king of this thread. Your input is awesome and you've shared the most by far. And we are friends!! But Larry's execution is amazing!
Cheers Ron and your suggestion of a low moisture absorbing flour is a good one.
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#1034 Post by M Passo » July 13th, 2016, 3:10 pm

I took the tip from Chefsteps to toast white flour at 450 degrees for 15-20 minutes. Worked great to both work dough into pie and dust peel. Maybe it was the dehydration that gave it that extra easy release into the oven.
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#1035 Post by Larry P » July 13th, 2016, 4:35 pm

I was having a lot of problems with stuck pizzas earlier this year. I don't know why but my GI.metal peel for some reason all of a sudden seemed to be coated with pizza glue. I found myself caking flour on top of the peel, which was counter to the original reason I got the peel in the first place.

So, I went back to an old-fashioned wood peel, with a light dusting of flour. It's been great so far, and very little flour is necessary.

I start by tossing my dough ball in a bowl of flour. I then take it out and form it on my granite counter with little to no flour. Outdoors I use a marble pastry board. Similar to this video of the late, great Luigi of Da Michele; see how he starts in a pile of flour, then moves the dough to a clean area to finish it:

[youtube][/youtube]

Here is another one:

[youtube][/youtube]
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#1036 Post by scamhi » July 14th, 2016, 10:20 am

I love the motion of the stretching at Nella's. using one arm and the hand of the other.
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#1037 Post by Larry P » July 16th, 2016, 6:33 pm

scamhi wrote:I love the motion of the stretching at Nella's. using one arm and the hand of the other.
Not exactly pizza but a similar technique, and this guy has some mad skills:

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]
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#1038 Post by MBerto » July 25th, 2016, 9:41 am

First time I got the Egg real hot and tried pizza:

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#1039 Post by Larry P » July 26th, 2016, 12:16 pm

Looks great Matt! Some will dislike the pineapple but I think it has its place.
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#1040 Post by Kenny H » August 5th, 2016, 7:49 pm

Chinese eggplant pizza from the garden. For the base I steeped ginger garlic scallion and lemongrass in olive oil then smeared all over. The eggplant was charred over open flame to lend smoke, skinned after steaming in foil, then tossed in the wok n scorched w miso shallot oil tahini fish sauce rice vinegar and sriracha . If you close your eyes it tastes like stir fried pork!

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#1041 Post by rfelthoven » August 8th, 2016, 12:39 pm

Recent pizzas...
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#1042 Post by Kenny H » August 20th, 2016, 8:46 am

Miso butter and lemongrass sauce. Kimchee, heirloom pancetta, fried chinese eggplant.

The cooked pic is never as good as the raw w these.

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#1043 Post by Victor Hong » August 21st, 2016, 4:56 pm

Grilled clam pizza, using Block Island clams and Vidalia onions.
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#1044 Post by Sherri S h a p i r o » August 22nd, 2016, 5:15 am

That clam pie looks delicious, Victor!

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#1045 Post by Victor Hong » August 22nd, 2016, 7:14 am

Thank you. The secret is to par bake the blind crust in the oven,
sitting atop silicone paper to prevent any sticking.
Then, flip it bare onto a hot grill for toasting and charring on both sides.
The final step is spreading already hot toppings or sauce onto it.
The result is crispy, light, and hot.
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#1046 Post by Ramon C » August 22nd, 2016, 7:23 am

Agree. That clam pizza looks yummy!
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#1047 Post by mattcitrang » August 22nd, 2016, 8:51 am

Did you use Block Island clams because you're on Brock Island?

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#1048 Post by Victor Hong » August 22nd, 2016, 9:02 am

Here every August. Sometimes also June, for sailboat regatta.
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#1049 Post by Scott Sutherland » August 24th, 2016, 9:41 pm

So I usually use a Peter Reinhardt recipe for pizza dough but I decided to branch out and try the Jim Lahey dough recipe:

500g AP flour
1g (1/4 tsp) active dry yeast
16g sea salt
350g water

Basically mix and let rise for 18-24 hours.

This was one of the wettest, slackest, most difficult to work with doughs ever. I've heard great things about his approach and his breads but man this was a challenge.

Is this a highly hydrated dough? How do I determine that %? Could I just add less water?

Or just scrap it and try something else?

Thanks

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#1050 Post by P. Willenberg » August 25th, 2016, 7:51 am

Percent is just water by weight if flour weight is 100. So this is 70%. Slack indeed. Start with 62 and work your way up, or don't. There are lots of techniques to increase water absorption but that doesn't sound like your goal.
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