Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

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keith reame
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#51 Post by keith reame » March 4th, 2012, 6:23 pm

Mel, it looks outstanding.Eleven layers really? Sweet! We use spinach and ricotta in our raviolis as well.

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#52 Post by Mel Hill » March 4th, 2012, 6:48 pm

made a white sauce 2 tbs butter + 2 tbs spoons flour then 1 C whole milk and 1/2 a shallot a little grating of nutmeg and a bag of spinach that I micro'ed for 5 min and squeezed out the water then chopped. That was good for a few layers and the ricotta and mozz. was good for a few and then use the meat sauce for the others. a but of mozz on each layer too. The only problem was that the mozz was kind of salty and I had seasoned each of the sauces so wife and daughter felt it was over salted a touch... meh could have been worse... Next time I'm going to taste the cheese before I salt the sauces.

I made this in a bread pan so I could use single sheets of pasta for each layer and really up the count. This was done mostly for the photo but I'd serve this as a course for a dinner for 6 no problem.

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#53 Post by Paul Bacino » March 5th, 2012, 4:42 am

Keith,

Welcome,

I used to remember hunting with my Grandpa, brings back memories of my first shot gun. It was a 410 single shot. Which.. I still have it to this day.

Cheers Bro

Paul

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#54 Post by Rich Sutton » March 7th, 2012, 6:15 am

This thread finally reminded me of this recipe.

http://www.westcoastwine.net/ubbthreads ... 4#Post8114

The only times I've made gravy were based on this. I thoroughly enjoyed the meals and the style in which the recipe was written.

Much to my surprise, a number of the contributers here were over at wcwn a decade ago. Hard not to see Frank Deis, Jimmie Wellman, and Mel Hill's names while chasing down this rcp. Thanks for your inspiration both then and now.

I think I'll make a gravy this weekend.

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#55 Post by Mark.Ricca » March 7th, 2012, 9:36 am

Hey,
What do you guys stuff your braciole wit?
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#56 Post by Paul Bacino » March 7th, 2012, 10:20 am

Mark,

Mine usually ends up with-- garlic, onion, Pancetta/Prosciutto or bacon, Parsley/Basil or Spinach, cooked egg, home-made bread crumbs ( seasoned ), cheese ( romano, asiago, parm what ever ), salt and pepper-- usually 1-2 eggs to bind.

Around a Round-- or what ever I find in the freezer or store !! Pork, veal

Curious on every-one else too!!

Paul

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#57 Post by mike pobega » March 7th, 2012, 11:18 am

Cheese, parsley, toasted pignolis-crushed, salt & pepper, basil, more cheese.
Parm-reggiano & locatelli

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#58 Post by T. Melloni » March 7th, 2012, 12:12 pm

For Grandma's braciole (this is from a fading memory):
Beef flank, bread crumbs, Parsley, Pecorino-Romano (Locatelli); egg to bind; olive oil and a few spoonfuls of gravy for moisture. They were usually held together with toothpicks, and not tied.

I don't remember them having pignolia nuts, raisins or prosciutto, which are often found in other recipes.

I wish Grandma was here to show me how to make this and teach me other recipes.
I miss you Grandma.
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#59 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » March 7th, 2012, 12:47 pm

Paul's method in his OP is scary-similar to what I do for my red sauce (I'm not Italian, so don't feel comfortable calling it "gravy"), as vaguely outlined below:

I usually use one pot.

To start, I melt a pat or two of butter in a pan and mix in some olive oil (maybe a T?), and saute some diced onions therein. Once lightly browned/carmelized, I'll add some minced shallot -- maybe a Tablespoon, or two. If I'm having red wine with the meal, I'll skip garlic. If I'm having white wine with dinner, I'll add 1 or 2 cloves of minced garlic. If I'm not having any wine with dinner, I'll add 3 or 4 minced cloves of garlic. I'll sweat these aromatics for a few minutes, then add the meat.

I prefer spicy Italian sausage, but am willing to do ground beef, ground pork, or ground turkey. If I have no other meat option avail. to me, I'll even sometimes do cubed chicken. I'll brown the meat with the aromatics (if using chicken, I'll cook the chicken at least half way through at this stage).

Then, I'll add the following:
1 big can of Hunt's tomato sauce (prob. the 29 oz.'er?)
1 can of diced or crushed tomatoes, with their liquid
sometimes I'll throw-in some tomato paste, too (1 - 3 T.)

I'll cook this for as long as my wife allows, throwing in some water from time to time if the sauce is thickening too much (but no water additions in the last 45 min. to hour). I try to keep it below a simmer.

During the last 30 - 45 min., I'll sometimes throw-in a splash of vodka.

Any dried herbs I use get added with about one hour left. I usually add some more diced onions at this point, and sometimes some bell pepper, too. If I'm going to use any fresh tomatoes in the sauce, I'll add them at this point (mostly for texture, rather than taste). I like to add some combination of the following dried herbs/spices (but never add all of them -- honestly, I rarely use more than 3 of these at any one time):
thyme (always use this)
ground fennel seeds (almost always)
oregeno (sometimes)
basil (sometimes)
marjoram (sometimes)
crushed red pepper flakes (sometimes; never if having red wine with dinner)
sage (rarely)
tarragon (rarely)

Any fresh herbs that I add are added instead of their dried counterpart, and are added in the last 10 min to 60 min., depending on herb. I'll sometimes add some thick-sliced white mushrooms at this point, too. Will sometimes use any of the following fresh herbs:
Basil
Tarragon
Rosemary

If I'm doing an orange sauce, I'll make the following changes:
......... on second thought, that's probably left to another thread! [cheers.gif]
Last edited by Brian G r a f s t r o m on March 7th, 2012, 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#60 Post by Peter Muto » March 7th, 2012, 1:03 pm

T. Melloni wrote:For Grandma's braciole (this is from a fading memory):
Beef flank, bread crumbs, Parsley, Pecorino-Romano (Locatelli); egg to bind; olive oil and a few spoonfuls of gravy for moisture. They were usually held together with toothpicks, and not tied.

I don't remember them having pignolia nuts, raisins or prosciutto, which are often found in other recipes.

I wish Grandma was here to show me how to make this and teach me other recipes.
I miss you Grandma.
Ditto. My nonna and mom make it with beef or veal flank, lot's of sprigs of parsley and then like a really fatty piece of skin or something, rolled and held together with a toothpick. Then they just get thrown in the sauce. I haven't had any in awhile, thanks for making me think of it.

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#61 Post by Robert.Fleming » March 7th, 2012, 1:10 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: If I'm having red wine with the meal, I'll skip garlic.
How come?

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#62 Post by Jorge Henriquez » March 7th, 2012, 1:47 pm

Robert.Fleming wrote:
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: If I'm having red wine with the meal, I'll skip garlic.
How come?
Not enough hop flavor. neener
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#63 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » March 7th, 2012, 1:58 pm

Robert.Fleming wrote:
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: If I'm having red wine with the meal, I'll skip garlic.
How come?
garlic sits on my palate like a wet wool blanket; absolutely kills red wine for me, and any more than a little will kill white wine for me, too.

This sucks, as I absolutely *love* garlic, but I'm not about to let garlic ruin a nice red wine and I don't think it's necessary for red sauce. I will, however, sometimes say, "Screw it," add ever how much garlic I want, open a cheap bottle of red, and not worry about it. I find shallots to be a good substitute for garlic when I'm looking to avoid garlic for wine-pairing purposes.

That said, I'm starting to truly believe that a dry mineral-laden white is a better match to red sauce than is most red wine.


Jorge,
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#64 Post by T. Melloni » March 7th, 2012, 4:20 pm

Peter Muto wrote:
T. Melloni wrote:For Grandma's braciole (this is from a fading memory):
Beef flank, bread crumbs, Parsley, Pecorino-Romano (Locatelli); egg to bind; olive oil and a few spoonfuls of gravy for moisture. They were usually held together with toothpicks, and not tied.

I don't remember them having pignolia nuts, raisins or prosciutto, which are often found in other recipes.

I wish Grandma was here to show me how to make this and teach me other recipes.
I miss you Grandma.
Ditto. My nonna and mom make it with beef or veal flank, lot's of sprigs of parsley and then like a really fatty piece of skin or something, rolled and held together with a toothpick. Then they just get thrown in the sauce. I haven't had any in awhile, thanks for making me think of it.
Peter - As I recall, your family (your mom) was from Bari - which is where my grandmother was born. So I suspect our recipes might be quite close. Although your family headed to Canada and my family settled in the Bronx, I guess that somewhere along the line we have some family connection.

Just by chance - do you have a small birthmark in the shape of a bird on your left hip?

T.
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#65 Post by Peter Muto » March 7th, 2012, 9:16 pm

T. Melloni wrote:
Peter Muto wrote:
T. Melloni wrote:For Grandma's braciole (this is from a fading memory):
Beef flank, bread crumbs, Parsley, Pecorino-Romano (Locatelli); egg to bind; olive oil and a few spoonfuls of gravy for moisture. They were usually held together with toothpicks, and not tied.

I don't remember them having pignolia nuts, raisins or prosciutto, which are often found in other recipes.

I wish Grandma was here to show me how to make this and teach me other recipes.
I miss you Grandma.
Ditto. My nonna and mom make it with beef or veal flank, lot's of sprigs of parsley and then like a really fatty piece of skin or something, rolled and held together with a toothpick. Then they just get thrown in the sauce. I haven't had any in awhile, thanks for making me think of it.
Peter - As I recall, your family (your mom) was from Bari - which is where my grandmother was born. So I suspect our recipes might be quite close. Although your family headed to Canada and my family settled in the Bronx, I guess that somewhere along the line we have some family connection.

Just by chance - do you have a small birthmark in the shape of a bird on your left hip?

T.
My mom is from Sannicandro di Bari, just outside Bari and I bet there are a lot of similarities in cooking but of course every family does things a little differently; that's Italy. It made me laugh in another thread when Paul mentioned 'some people even put raw meatballs into the sauce'. That would be my family!

I'm not sure what you mean by the birthmark reference....

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#66 Post by Mark.Ricca » March 8th, 2012, 5:33 am

My Mom used to make braciole all the time when we were kids. I actually had to call her and ask her what she stuffed it with. I can't believe I've never made it at home.
I know she used herbs like parsley (which was curly back then) and seasoned bread crumbs and cheese. I'm going to make some this Sunday. I can't wait.
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#67 Post by mike pobega » March 8th, 2012, 5:59 am

Sorry, I don't ever get the seasoned breadcrumb thing.
I make mine from old bread. I can season alongside it as need be.

:)
Cheerio!

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#68 Post by Mark.Ricca » March 8th, 2012, 6:28 am

Well,
There are a few thing she did that I have improved upon such as College Inn chicken broth, canned beans, Hormel Pepperoni, but as I said, back in the day you had to struggle to find other than curly parsley in most supermarkets.

We save all the bread ends.
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#69 Post by Paul Bacino » March 8th, 2012, 8:23 am

Mike,

Seasoned bread crumbs ( to me ) is like the ying and yang. dried and ( I will always add ) fresh!!
So..No big deal for me, its all home-made, any hoot.

Again I wish I had paid more attention, when I was a kid!!

Paul

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#70 Post by T. Melloni » March 8th, 2012, 2:05 pm

Peter Muto wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by the birthmark reference....
it was a joke - as if we were related and shared some common birthmark.
(Apparently it wasn't a funny joke; I'll still be here all week, however).

Grandma was from Toritto, which is near Altamura.

We did not do the raw meatballs. Grandma cooked the meatballs along with the braciole, the lamb, the pork and the sausages (2 sweet; 1 hot).

For my family, a popular feast day was the Feast of Quasano - which we referred to in Italian-American Barese dialect as Qwaz-Ann. The Feast is celebrated the Third Sunday in June; we used to travel to some field in New Jersey for the Feast. The men would carry around a life size statute of the Virgin Mary and people would tack dollar bills to it. The best part (for me as a young kid) was the lamb and cheese sausgae we would pick up from Ottomanelli Meats on York Avenue in Manhattan. The smell of the grilled lamb sausage is intoxicating. Brings me back to my childhood.
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#71 Post by Peter Muto » March 8th, 2012, 5:25 pm

I thought that might be what you were referring to but the specificity of it made me unsure.

That's not very far but in Italy 50km can make a world of culturual difference sometimes! I think the raw meatballs may even just be my mom's own little invention; my other nonna used to fry meatballs first but she was from Calabria, they fry everything!

It sounds like you enjoyed salsiccia Barese, a mostly lamb, with parsley and herbs sausage put in a very small casings, like a ring finger at most. Often come in long coils or mini-coils held together with a toothpick.

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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#72 Post by Mark.Ricca » March 9th, 2012, 5:54 am

THREAD DRIFT!

Ottomanelli's rocks. We use Florence Meat Market also. Great lamb sausages.
It's cool too because it's on the wife's way home from work.
Last edited by Mark.Ricca on March 9th, 2012, 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#73 Post by T. Melloni » March 9th, 2012, 10:19 am

Peter Muto wrote:It sounds like you enjoyed salsiccia Barese, a mostly lamb, with parsley and herbs sausage put in a very small casings, like a ring finger at most. Often come in long coils or mini-coils held together with a toothpick.
The sausage was called "Chivalet" which was likley Barese dialetc for chevrilade. I thought the Salsiccia Barese used pork along with lamb. The sausage I had, which like a ring finger in diameter, used lamb and cheese and parsley but did not have pork. It did come in long coils; we would cut the sausage and make min-coils and hold them together with toothpicks.
I last picked them up on Arthur Avenue oin the Bronx.
I need to go to Ottomanelli's. I think they will make them but you need to pre-order the sausage.
Mark.Ricca wrote: Ottomanelli's rocks.
I like the Ottomanelli's on York Avenue, although I have not been there in years.
The Ottomanelli's down in the Village - meh - not so much.
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#74 Post by Peter Muto » March 9th, 2012, 11:03 am

T. Melloni wrote:
Peter Muto wrote:It sounds like you enjoyed salsiccia Barese, a mostly lamb, with parsley and herbs sausage put in a very small casings, like a ring finger at most. Often come in long coils or mini-coils held together with a toothpick.
The sausage was called "Chivalet" which was likley Barese dialetc for chevrilade. I thought the Salsiccia Barese used pork along with lamb. The sausage I had, which like a ring finger in diameter, used lamb and cheese and parsley but did not have pork. It did come in long coils; we would cut the sausage and make min-coils and hold them together with toothpicks.
I last picked them up on Arthur Avenue oin the Bronx.
I need to go to Ottomanelli's. I think they will make them but you need to pre-order the sausage.
I think it's another one of those every town makes it a little different. I think Barese sausage frequently has some pork in it but our grocer who's from another town just outside Bari, uses 100% lamb. Some put cheese, some don't, or different herbs. We've tried making our own but have never gotten the recipe exactly from anyone and haven't been able to re-produce it adequately.

My favourite in spring time is "gnumaridde." Not sure hot spell it, it's a dialect word. I love them on the wood BBQ.

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Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#75 Post by Benjamin Sullivan DNA » November 2nd, 2014, 12:17 pm

Image

Image

Image
One Reality: Truth.

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Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#76 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » November 2nd, 2014, 3:50 pm

Well done! What dice game do you play with such regularity that you have a specialized dice holder on your table, Ben?
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Re: Sunday Gravy-- My Red Sauce

#77 Post by Michae1 P0wers » December 30th, 2018, 9:20 am

Thought I'd revive this thread since I'm planning to make a Sunday sauce tomorrow. I'm not in any way Italian, so have no childhood associations, nor learned any tricks from grandparents. I don't have pork necks bones on hand but I do have some marrow bones so I'll likely use those, as many recipes, including Richard Blais', suggest using those in the sauce anyway. Otherwise it will be meatballs, locally made sausages, and homemade braciola. I always brown the meat first, set aside, onions and garlic, deglaze, add whole canned tomatoes and paste, then put the meat back in and let it go for several hours. I don't add herbs at all because I enjoy this dish for the pure tomato and meat harmony. I always finish with some butter in the sauce, though it might not be necessary with the marrow bones.

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