Why sous vide?

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K_F_o_l_e_y
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Why sous vide?

#101 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » July 26th, 2018, 9:35 am

MY JOULE HAD A LITTLE BABY: And she is so adorable!
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Why sous vide?

#102 Post by TimF » July 28th, 2018, 11:40 am

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:You can surely make Mac & Cheese many ways, but it sure is easy using sous vide to prepare the cheese sauce.

MAC & CHEESE: Kerrygold Reserve Cheddar sauce, with roasted Granny Smith apples and smoked bacon.

Recipe adapted from (as suggested by Chris Freemott):

http://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/sil ... nd-cheese/

VIDEO: https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/ch ... eese-sauce

Basically the MC recipe, but using CS's sous vide and blender tricks.

I saved some of the sauce in the fridge to see how easily it reheats tomorrow.
I just made the modernist Mac and cheese. I followed the recipe as exactly as I could, weighing everything in grams. Out of the four of us we all agreed that the amount of noodles should be increased. I felt 50% more, my wife thought I should double them. My wife really didn’t like it as she felt the texture was similar to velveta. There is definitely a “plasticy cheese” consistency to it. I’m not sure if it’s the process or that I used mostly Monterey Jack with a small amount of cheddar. I thought it was good but I think I prefer a bechamel sauce. My son didn’t finish his and my daughter seemed to like it the most out of all of us.
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Why sous vide?

#103 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » July 28th, 2018, 12:36 pm

TimF wrote:I just made the modernist Mac and cheese. I followed the recipe as exactly as I could, weighing everything in grams. Out of the four of us we all agreed that the amount of noodles should be increased. I felt 50% more, my wife thought I should double them. My wife really didn’t like it as she felt the texture was similar to velveta. There is definitely a “plasticy cheese” consistency to it. I’m not sure if it’s the process or that I used mostly Monterey Jack with a small amount of cheddar. I thought it was good but I think I prefer a bechamel sauce. My son didn’t finish his and my daughter seemed to like it the most out of all of us.
Yes, I should have noted that it makes twice as much sauce as you need!

Your wife is right actually, it should have some similarity to melted Velveta, since melting salts like Sodium Citrate are exactly why Velvata, Kraft Singles, etc behave the way they do. But the flavor comes almost entirely from the cheeses you used. I only used boring grocery store cheddar because this was the first time I was making it and I didn't want to end up wasting $30 of great cheese. A béchamel is going to add very little flavor beyond butter, depending on how much you brown the roux, and I think would have more of a textual/mouth feel effect. You could certainly throw in some butter (I used browned Ghee in my "melty cheese slice" recipe). Sodium Citrate is almost tasteless, maybe a slightly sour flavor, but there is very little in the recipe, and it much less "salty" than Sodium Chloride.

If you wanted to, you could do the same thing using a dry, tannic white wine, which will have a similar effect as the melting salts.

But then it would be Fondue!
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Why sous vide?

#104 Post by Rob_S » July 30th, 2018, 8:03 am

I just undercook the pasta a little bit with extra sauce as it soaks up and makes the pasta itself more flavourful. It's also why you put them in small ovenproof containers and throw them under the broiler/salamander, it bubbles up and gets a nice crust.

It IS the difference between adult mac & cheese and kid's mac & cheese though. My kids like relatively dry and bland mac & cheese and I like a wetter and very sharp one with lots of brown bits on top...
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Why sous vide?

#105 Post by TimF » July 30th, 2018, 8:36 am

Rob_S wrote:I just undercook the pasta a little bit with extra sauce as it soaks up and makes the pasta itself more flavourful. It's also why you put them in small ovenproof containers and throw them under the broiler/salamander, it bubbles up and gets a nice crust.

It IS the difference between adult mac & cheese and kid's mac & cheese though. My kids like relatively dry and bland mac & cheese and I like a wetter and very sharp one with lots of brown bits on top...
I don't think I'm ever going to be a convert. I still remember my sister putting Kraft singles on bread and then into the toaster over. The result would look like plastic on the bread. I just can't get past the plastic/processed texture of the cheese. It's like you're taking great cheese and destroying it.

Anyone ever had Imo's Pizza in St. Louis? It is as if the Devil himself made anti-pizza. Processed cheese on pizza...
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Why sous vide?

#106 Post by MattB. » July 30th, 2018, 9:14 am

Personally, I think that sous vide makes sense for every meat except for beef tenderlion and large bone in cuts. Fillet is already tender and bone in cuts are a pain to fit in a bag. Sous vide works perfectly for any other cut because constant cooking temp makes the meat tender.
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Why sous vide?

#107 Post by Ron Slye » July 31st, 2018, 2:43 pm

We did boneless chicken breasts the other night, and they were fantastic. 142 degrees (recipe called for 140, for some reason I went a little hotter) for about 2 plus hours (meant 90 minutes per the recipe, but got distracted with two year old. Added olive oil, lemon juice, garlic, and fresh thyme (plus salt and pepper) in the bag. Then heated in hot pan on the stove -- then wine in the pan to get up the brown bits, and added the sous vide bag juice to make a lovely gravy. Really tender result. Much better than either grilling or roasting.

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Why sous vide?

#108 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » July 31st, 2018, 6:26 pm

MattB. wrote:Personally, I think that sous vide makes sense for every meat except for beef tenderlion and large bone in cuts. Fillet is already tender and bone in cuts are a pain to fit in a bag. Sous vide works perfectly for any other cut because constant cooking temp makes the meat tender.

I did a sous vide Flannery California Reserve filet mignon (129°F) at a wine dinner a few months ago, and a couple of members of this board declared, "Best Steak Evah." YMMV
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Why sous vide?

#109 Post by Jason T » August 9th, 2018, 2:25 am

Ron Slye wrote:We did boneless chicken breasts the other night, and they were fantastic. 142 degrees (recipe called for 140, for some reason I went a little hotter) for about 2 plus hours (meant 90 minutes per the recipe, but got distracted with two year old. Added olive oil, lemon juice, garlic, and fresh thyme (plus salt and pepper) in the bag. Then heated in hot pan on the stove -- then wine in the pan to get up the brown bits, and added the sous vide bag juice to make a lovely gravy. Really tender result. Much better than either grilling or roasting.
I’m still playing with the optimal temperature for breasts. I now think 140 may be high for me because I like to give them a couple minutes in a ripping-hot skillet afterwards to give them a nice sear. I’ve found that even just 2 minutes on one side and then 30 seconds on the other moves the final temp too high. Texture is still way better than if I’d tried to do entirely in skillet or in oven, but I think I can do better.

Next couple times I cook breasts I’m going to try lower temps - 138 and 136. Though I know chicken that is cooked at too low a temp will have a super-funky texture and I definitely find that offputting.
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Why sous vide?

#110 Post by Joe Chanley » August 9th, 2018, 5:41 am

Jason T wrote:
Ron Slye wrote:We did boneless chicken breasts the other night, and they were fantastic. 142 degrees (recipe called for 140, for some reason I went a little hotter) for about 2 plus hours (meant 90 minutes per the recipe, but got distracted with two year old. Added olive oil, lemon juice, garlic, and fresh thyme (plus salt and pepper) in the bag. Then heated in hot pan on the stove -- then wine in the pan to get up the brown bits, and added the sous vide bag juice to make a lovely gravy. Really tender result. Much better than either grilling or roasting.
I’m still playing with the optimal temperature for breasts. I now think 140 may be high for me because I like to give them a couple minutes in a ripping-hot skillet afterwards to give them a nice sear. I’ve found that even just 2 minutes on one side and then 30 seconds on the other moves the final temp too high. Texture is still way better than if I’d tried to do entirely in skillet or in oven, but I think I can do better.

Next couple times I cook breasts I’m going to try lower temps - 138 and 136. Though I know chicken that is cooked at too low a temp will have a super-funky texture and I definitely find that offputting.
i've been doing 150 for an hour....no complaints

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Why sous vide?

#111 Post by Steve Manzi » August 9th, 2018, 1:26 pm

Jason T wrote:
Ron Slye wrote:We did boneless chicken breasts the other night, and they were fantastic. 142 degrees (recipe called for 140, for some reason I went a little hotter) for about 2 plus hours (meant 90 minutes per the recipe, but got distracted with two year old. Added olive oil, lemon juice, garlic, and fresh thyme (plus salt and pepper) in the bag. Then heated in hot pan on the stove -- then wine in the pan to get up the brown bits, and added the sous vide bag juice to make a lovely gravy. Really tender result. Much better than either grilling or roasting.
I’m still playing with the optimal temperature for breasts. I now think 140 may be high for me because I like to give them a couple minutes in a ripping-hot skillet afterwards to give them a nice sear. I’ve found that even just 2 minutes on one side and then 30 seconds on the other moves the final temp too high. Texture is still way better than if I’d tried to do entirely in skillet or in oven, but I think I can do better.

Next couple times I cook breasts I’m going to try lower temps - 138 and 136. Though I know chicken that is cooked at too low a temp will have a super-funky texture and I definitely find that offputting.

Have you tried an ice bath for a bit and then the sear?
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Why sous vide?

#112 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 9th, 2018, 1:48 pm

Anova just released a smaller immersion circulator called the Nano:

https://anovaculinary.com/anova-precision-cooker/nano/

Significantly cheaper than Joule ($99 vs $179), but it is still wider, taller, heavier, with no magnet, only Bluetooth not wifi, slower heating, less heating capacity, and a lower top temperature than Joule (and I just bought a second Joule on sale for $129).
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Why sous vide?

#113 Post by Ron Slye » August 9th, 2018, 4:16 pm

Jason T wrote:
Ron Slye wrote:We did boneless chicken breasts the other night, and they were fantastic. 142 degrees (recipe called for 140, for some reason I went a little hotter) for about 2 plus hours (meant 90 minutes per the recipe, but got distracted with two year old. Added olive oil, lemon juice, garlic, and fresh thyme (plus salt and pepper) in the bag. Then heated in hot pan on the stove -- then wine in the pan to get up the brown bits, and added the sous vide bag juice to make a lovely gravy. Really tender result. Much better than either grilling or roasting.
I’m still playing with the optimal temperature for breasts. I now think 140 may be high for me because I like to give them a couple minutes in a ripping-hot skillet afterwards to give them a nice sear. I’ve found that even just 2 minutes on one side and then 30 seconds on the other moves the final temp too high. Texture is still way better than if I’d tried to do entirely in skillet or in oven, but I think I can do better.

Next couple times I cook breasts I’m going to try lower temps - 138 and 136. Though I know chicken that is cooked at too low a temp will have a super-funky texture and I definitely find that offputting.
Interesting that you say that. I found the chicken temp good. But I have that issue with steak. I now go pretty far into the rare category for sous vide, as I like to sear for a while to get the fat cooked, and find that cooks the meat a bit more. As with all cooking, there is a lot of experimenting and adjusting!

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Why sous vide?

#114 Post by Kenny H » August 9th, 2018, 8:08 pm

Ron Slye wrote:
Interesting that you say that. I found the chicken temp good. But I have that issue with steak. I now go pretty far into the rare category for sous vide, as I like to sear for a while to get the fat cooked, and find that cooks the meat a bit more. As with all cooking, there is a lot of experimenting and adjusting!
Ron, you will find for steak that reverse sear technique will solve that problem. With an oven time of 45min to 1 hour for a nice thick cut steak at 210F you will get significant fat break down. After that a very short sear on ripping cast will brown the fat nicely. I will even put the steaks on edge after the sides to get the fat cap and it works brilliantly. Connective tissue breaks down too, it is the way to go.
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Why sous vide?

#115 Post by Jason T » August 9th, 2018, 9:24 pm

Steve Manzi wrote: Have you tried an ice bath for a bit and then the sear?
Steve- no I hadn’t considered it. But that sounds like soemething I can certainly expirement with :). Thanks for the suggestion.
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#116 Post by Ron Slye » August 10th, 2018, 5:27 pm

Kenny H wrote:
Ron Slye wrote:
Interesting that you say that. I found the chicken temp good. But I have that issue with steak. I now go pretty far into the rare category for sous vide, as I like to sear for a while to get the fat cooked, and find that cooks the meat a bit more. As with all cooking, there is a lot of experimenting and adjusting!
Ron, you will find for steak that reverse sear technique will solve that problem. With an oven time of 45min to 1 hour for a nice thick cut steak at 210F you will get significant fat break down. After that a very short sear on ripping cast will brown the fat nicely. I will even put the steaks on edge after the sides to get the fat cap and it works brilliantly. Connective tissue breaks down too, it is the way to go.
Thanks for the tip -- I gather this is not using sous vide then, right?

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Why sous vide?

#117 Post by Kenny H » August 10th, 2018, 7:47 pm

Ron Slye wrote: Thanks for the tip -- I gather this is not using sous vide then, right?

Correct. I use sous vide a lot but based on your issue and the fact reverse sear is the best steak method, you should try it. Cook to 130 internal then sear ripping hot 30sec per side.
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#118 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 10th, 2018, 9:15 pm

Kenny H wrote:
Ron Slye wrote: Thanks for the tip -- I gather this is not using sous vide then, right?

Correct. I use sous vide a lot but based on your issue and the fact reverse sear is the best steak method, you should try it. Cook to 130 internal then sear ripping hot 30sec per side.
Here's ChefSteps' variation on this (you might need to have a premium account to see the video);

https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/beef-steak

BTW, if you want to produce multiple steaks cooked to different temps at the same time for a dinner party, you can put the steaks in the oven at different times, and take them all out at once (but you'll need to practice this to work out the times for your oven). Personally, I find sous vide a lot easier.

"1) Chill meat
It’s best to cool steak on a wire rack near the bottom of your fridge. Doing so facilitates cold airflow around the entire product, both cooling and drying all surfaces. You can also cool the steak on a plate, if you don’t have a wire rack. Don’t stress if you don’t have time to chill the meat—just move on to the next step and make a mental note to cool it next time.

2) Dry the meat
Blot your cold steak dry with a paper towel or clean rag.

3) Oil the meat
Apply oil directly to the meat itself. Don’t apply any seasoning yet.

4) Sear
Place in the heated pan, applying even pressure with a clean rag, paper towel, or fork. As a benchmark, a brown sear should occur after 2 minutes on each side—if it takes more or less time, adjust your burner accordingly next time. You can achieve a deeper crust by cooking meat a bit longer, but you’ll probably want to lower the heat a touch if you decide to do so.

5) Transfer to a cool plate; season
Transfer the meat immediately to a cool plate to minimize carry-over cooking. Season with salt, pepper, or other spices. Drizzle with oil or butter, if desired, baste with pan juices, or just leave it dry until service.

6) Pop in the oven or take a break
Now, a choice: You can cook the steaks in the oven right away, leave them at room temperature for about an hour, or pop them in the fridge (uncovered) to cook later tonight or tomorrow. Step-by-step cooking allows you to break up the steps without compromising the results.

7) Heat oven to 175 °F / 79 °C, and cook
The meat will cook nice and slow, so take your time preparing side dishes, setting the table, or just straight chillin’.
Heat to 225 °F / 107 °C if you’re in a hurry, or if you prefer medium-well or well-done steaks.

8) Remove from oven at desired doneness
It’s best to use a digital thermometer to measure internal temperature. Here are some general guidelines for internal temperatures of varying levels of doneness. Set oven to 175 °F / 79 °C

Rare: 120 °F / 49 °C to 127 °F / 53 °C
Medium-Rare: 129 °F / 54 °C to 136 °F / 58 °C
Medium: 138 °F / 59 °C to 144 °F / 62 °C
Set oven to 225 °F / 107 °C
Medium-Well: 145 °F / 63 °C to 151 °F / 66 °C
Well-Done: 153 °F / 67 °C +

If you heat the oven to 225 °F / 107 °C instead of 175 °F / 79 °C for rare to medium, decrease cooking times by about 50 percent, and be diligent about pulling them out on time; they’ll overcook much more quickly."
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Why sous vide?

#119 Post by Ron Slye » August 11th, 2018, 12:01 pm

Kenny H wrote:
Ron Slye wrote: Thanks for the tip -- I gather this is not using sous vide then, right?

Correct. I use sous vide a lot but based on your issue and the fact reverse sear is the best steak method, you should try it. Cook to 130 internal then sear ripping hot 30sec per side.
Will do -- thanks for the tip! I will report back, though it may be a while as we are eating less red meat these days....

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Why sous vide?

#120 Post by Kenny H » August 11th, 2018, 8:50 pm

I disagree with the above post that sears first. That is forward sear. It is technically much better to render fat and connective tissue at low temp before you do the maillard step. You get a far better fat result and flavor by creating the maillard after low temp treatment.
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Re: Why sous vide?

#121 Post by MitchTallan » August 13th, 2018, 4:53 pm

Last night we ate at a hip newer restaurant here in C-Bus called Service Bar. The "Chef's Special" was billed as an ultimate version of a McDonalds fish sandwich with sous vide cod, then fried. I liked it on first bite but after that, I found the texture of the fish off-putting. It had the texture of gelatin mixed with soft molten plastic. The flavor was intense and pure, but I like my fish flakey and this had no flake. My wife and son complained about the fishy smell. I have to bet the fish was as fresh as fish gets in the midwest which means typically shipped semi-frozen within 48 hours of being processed. The fries were also sous vide and then fried. The result was a better but again, the texture was off-the fries seemed to have a fried exterior containing potato cream goo inside. Reading through this thread, texture with animal proteins has been brought up repeatedly. Why all the fuss over a method that creates more flaws than it circumvents? Is it that hard to properly cook a tender piece of steak or fish in a pan or on a grill?

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Re: Why sous vide?

#122 Post by Steven Miller » August 13th, 2018, 5:47 pm

I've never tried doing sous vide fish in advance and then warming at the last second before plating. We've tried it 3 times so far with varying results. The big winner for us, is how little fish smell pervades the kitchen after dinner.
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Re: Why sous vide?

#123 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 15th, 2018, 1:28 pm

Kenny H wrote:
August 11th, 2018, 8:50 pm
I disagree with the above post that sears first. That is forward sear. It is technically much better to render fat and connective tissue at low temp before you do the maillard step. You get a far better fat result and flavor by creating the maillard after low temp treatment.
Take it up with the chefs at ChefSteps, which include the co-author of Modernist Cuisine, chefs who ran or worked in the kitchen labs for both Fat Duck and Mugaritz, and Douglas Baldwin, one of the most best known writers on sous vide.

The kitchen if full of anecdotes and old wive's tales. These are some of the people who are trying to apply real scientific principles to cooking (and being a scientist, I appreciate that), so I'm not going to dismiss them out of hand.

Personally, I like to do both pre- and post-sears on pork tenderloin (which is super easy to over-cook, so getting some good color on a cold piece of meat is an advantage, and then refresh it before serving), but I usually stick with just an post-sear for steak (I've never like the "forward" and "reverse" nomenclature, which seems non-sensical to me). There may also be an advantage to doing a pre-sear if you plan to make a sauce from the sous vide drippings. You will see some professional kitchens who do something similar ChefSteps approach (they didn't invented it). However, I think the particular point of their recipe was how it enables you too cook a larger number of steaks for a group, but still have each at the doneness you want (and not using sous vide).
Last edited by K_F_o_l_e_y on August 15th, 2018, 2:15 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Why sous vide?

#124 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 15th, 2018, 1:35 pm

MitchTallan wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 4:53 pm
Why all the fuss over a method that creates more flaws than it circumvents? Is it that hard to properly cook a tender piece of steak or fish in a pan or on a grill?
So you ate one thing you didn't like and want to throw the baby out with the bath water? Personally, sous vide is the only way I'll ever cook fish now that I've tried it (with some minor exceptions, like scallops).

10 years from now, immersion circulators will be as common as KitchenAid stand mixers in America's home kitchens. No serious amateur chef will be without one (or two in my case lol). There's a reason for that, and it's not because it "creates more flaws than it circumvents". But as I said earlier, it's just a tool, not a religion. Apply it where it benefits, and do something else where it doesn't.
Last edited by K_F_o_l_e_y on August 15th, 2018, 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why sous vide?

#125 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 15th, 2018, 1:47 pm

Steven Miller wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 5:47 pm
I've never tried doing sous vide fish in advance and then warming at the last second before plating. We've tried it 3 times so far with varying results. The big winner for us, is how little fish smell pervades the kitchen after dinner.
Given how quickly fish cooks sous vide, is there an advantage to cooking and then re-therming again just before serving? Why not just sous vide and serve? The times for cooking and re-therming will be pretty similar. Of course, you could sous vide, and then later sear the skin just before serving, but I'd be worried that a 1 min sear wouldn't sufficiently warm the fish. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you?

What I like best about sous vide fish is the precise temperature control, which gives me the exact doneness I want without risking over cooking (118F for Salmon, I like my fish on the rare side). Then 60 seconds to crisp up the skin, and mmmmmm....
Cheers,
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Re: Why sous vide?

#126 Post by Kenny H » August 15th, 2018, 7:54 pm

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 1:28 pm
Kenny H wrote:
August 11th, 2018, 8:50 pm
I disagree with the above post that sears first. That is forward sear. It is technically much better to render fat and connective tissue at low temp before you do the maillard step. You get a far better fat result and flavor by creating the maillard after low temp treatment.
Take it up with the chefs at ChefSteps, which include the co-author of Modernist Cuisine, chefs who ran or worked in the kitchen labs for both Fat Duck and Mugaritz, and Douglas Baldwin, one of the most best known writers on sous vide.

The kitchen if full of anecdotes and old wive's tales. These are some of the people who are trying to apply real scientific principles to cooking (and being a scientist, I appreciate that), so I'm not going to dismiss them out of hand.

Personally, I like to do both pre- and post-sears on pork tenderloin (which is super easy to over-cook, so getting some good color on a cold piece of meat is an advantage, and then refresh it before serving), but I usually stick with just an post-sear for steak (I've never like the "forward" and "reverse" nomenclature, which seems non-sensical to me). There may also be an advantage to doing a pre-sear if you plan to make a sauce from the sous vide drippings. You will see some professional kitchens who do something similar ChefSteps approach (they didn't invented it). However, I think the particular point of their recipe was how it enables you too cook a larger number of steaks for a group, but still have each at the doneness you want (and not using sous vide).
No need. I have read and follow the food science and I abide by it. On Food and Cooking by McGee should be a book in every cooks kitchen. The Food Lab by Kenji is an excellent supplement. I have been a test kitchen for nearly 10 years. I use classic technique but alter process to suit scientific results. No anecdotes here. So in the situation of the steak in this case, I still prefer reverse sear.
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Re: Why sous vide?

#127 Post by Steve Manzi » August 16th, 2018, 2:46 pm

Kenny,

I need to do some reverse sears again. I have gone to SO much sous vide and it works perfectly for me for so many reasons, that I forget how much I loved steaks reversed seared.

My only down side is that I love the ability to be so flexible with timing for dinner with sous vide.
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Re: Why sous vide?

#128 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 17th, 2018, 8:32 am

Steve Manzi wrote:
August 16th, 2018, 2:46 pm
Kenny,

I need to do some reverse sears again. I have gone to SO much sous vide and it works perfectly for me for so many reasons, that I forget how much I loved steaks reversed seared.

My only down side is that I love the ability to be so flexible with timing for dinner with sous vide.
Are you not doing a sear on your sous vide steaks at all? The most common thing to do is a post-sear (reverse sear) after taking the steak out of the water bath and just before serving it. There are endless, mind numbing debates online about the best way sear, but this is a fun video from Adam Savage and Kenji:



Personally, a screaming hot cast iron skillet on the stove is good enough for me. Since the steaks are all perfectly cooked to temp by sous vide, I don't find it that hard to pull 6 of them at once, quickly sear them 2 or 3 at a time and serve for a dinner party.
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Re: Why sous vide?

#129 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » August 17th, 2018, 11:21 am

Kenny H wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 8:08 pm
Ron Slye wrote:
Interesting that you say that. I found the chicken temp good. But I have that issue with steak. I now go pretty far into the rare category for sous vide, as I like to sear for a while to get the fat cooked, and find that cooks the meat a bit more. As with all cooking, there is a lot of experimenting and adjusting!
Ron, you will find for steak that reverse sear technique will solve that problem. With an oven time of 45min to 1 hour for a nice thick cut steak at 210F you will get significant fat break down. After that a very short sear on ripping cast will brown the fat nicely. I will even put the steaks on edge after the sides to get the fat cap and it works brilliantly. Connective tissue breaks down too, it is the way to go.
Totally agree with Kenny on all counts, and that is our method. So much of timing and temp to pull from the oven depends on the power of your heat source. For fun once we tried the final sear on our wok burner, which has 150K BTUs of power, and the meat was seared within seconds with zero impact on internal temperature. Since we'd been counting on it coming up a few degrees, it was actually a little underdone that time, but it was impressive.

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Re: Why sous vide?

#130 Post by Nola Palomar » December 14th, 2018, 12:42 pm

I just took the plunge. I’ll have to go back and read through everything here. Any super easy recipes to start off?
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Re: Why sous vide?

#131 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » December 14th, 2018, 7:48 pm

Nola Palomar wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 12:42 pm
I just took the plunge. I’ll have to go back and read through everything here. Any super easy recipes to start off?
Welcome to the club Nola!

I really like many of the recipes on ChefSteps.com (not all are sous vide, but they produce the Joule immersion circulator, so a lot of them are).

A good starting place is a series of video recipes they produced in the past year or so which combines a different sous vide protein plated on top of a quick salad and a vegetable puree. Quick, tasty and nice enough to serve to guests (I have):

https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/so ... let-mignon
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/cr ... -sous-vide
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/so ... -pork-chop
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/sous-vide-salmon

And for dessert, do something sous vide in a jar:

https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/fo ... eme-brulee
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/pot-de-creme
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/th ... cheesecake
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/pu ... e-in-a-jar
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/ba ... e-in-a-jar
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/ch ... g-in-a-jar

The pot de creme with maple syrup and black lava salt on top is to die for.
Cheers,
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Re: Why sous vide?

#132 Post by Mike Maguire » December 14th, 2018, 8:29 pm

I’m a rookie, my wife is worried about the chemical reaction of cooking in plastic.Cause for concern?

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Re: Why sous vide?

#133 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » December 14th, 2018, 10:10 pm

Mike Maguire wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 8:29 pm
I’m a rookie, my wife is worried about the chemical reaction of cooking in plastic.Cause for concern?
Stick with low density polyethylene bags. Name brand Ziplock bags are made out of LDPE and contain no plasticizers. In addition to "freezer grade" Ziplock bags (stronger than regular Ziplock bags so less likely to break at higher sous vide temperatures), I use 80% polyethylene/20% nylon bags with my chamber vacuum (which are strong enough to boil):

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/ary-va ... 30725.html

There is a bit of literature (Yang et al., 2011) suggesting that virtually all plastics, even the above can release chemicals with estrogenic activity, but this is controversial and of unknown significance.

Personally, I've got bigger things to worry about. Like the fact that the crust on my steak contains heterocyclic amines and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which are definitely carcinogenic.

Life is funny. Then you die.
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Re: Why sous vide?

#134 Post by Anton D » December 16th, 2018, 10:17 am

1) Welcome, Nola!

2) Carrots: get the small multicolored pretty ones in the organic department. Seal in your preferred bag with a pat of butter and a few big dashes of brown sugar. Sous Vide at 180 degrees for a couple of hours. be prepared to "force" the bag to remain submerged. I use a stainless steel pot on top of the bag. When ready to serve, pour of the liquid that has emerged fro the carrots and quickly "sear" to glaze in a hot pan...not to cook the carrots, just to make the glaze appear. Next, prepare to be asked for "More, please." So good.

3) Steak to 128 degrees! Then a 30 second sear in a way hot cast iron pan, preheated to painfully hot, so you almost feel sorry for the poor steak because it's so hot. I prefer the ribbed pans, for my pleasure. I like to make sear lines...15 seconds, rotate 90 degrees, 15 seconds, flip. Be sure to sear the sides!

4) Don't do shrimp, even just tails. If there is any remaining head part from processing, it contains a proteolytic enzyme that can make your shrimp mealy. (Not always, but I've been wrong twice and regretted it.)

5) Making sure you have no air in the bag and no leakage is crucial.

6) Mushrooms: mushrooms at 180-190 for an hour or two. Use the whole mushroom, add some butter and any seasoning you like. They stay nice and plump and develop perfect texture and concentrated mushroomy goodness.

7) Lamb "pops." These can actually handle a slightly higher temperature, we arbitrarily use 134 degrees. A few sprigs of rosemary is all we put in with them. 2-4 hours, sear 15 seconds per side, ten seconds, even.

All the best!
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Re: Why sous vide?

#135 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » December 16th, 2018, 12:21 pm

Anton D wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 10:17 am
Don't do shrimp, even just tails. If there is any remaining head part from processing, it contains a proteolytic enzyme that can make your shrimp mealy. (Not always, but I've been wrong twice and regretted it.)
Oh man, sous vide shrimp are one of the BEST things you can do! Try this recipe by Kenji Lopez-Alt.

https://www.seriouseats.com/2017/01/the ... hrimp.html
Attachments
2017-0207 Kenji's shrimp with paprika copy.jpg
Cheers,
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Re: Why sous vide?

#136 Post by Nola Palomar » December 16th, 2018, 2:12 pm

What about the Pot you cook it in? Seems like most of my pots are too shallow. Any inexpensive hacks?
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Re: Why sous vide?

#137 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » December 16th, 2018, 2:24 pm

Nola Palomar wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 2:12 pm
What about the Pot you cook it in? Seems like most of my pots are too shallow. Any inexpensive hacks?
The 12L Rubbermaid is a popular container (I have two, plus lids with fitted holes for my Joules and an insulated sleeve for long cooks):

Cheers,
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Re: Why sous vide?

#138 Post by Brad Kane » December 16th, 2018, 2:50 pm

Anton D wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 10:17 am

4) Don't do shrimp, even just tails. If there is any remaining head part from processing, it contains a proteolytic enzyme that can make your shrimp mealy. (Not always, but I've been wrong twice and regretted it.)
Agreed. The worst shrimp I've ever had was made sous vide. Just awful texture. There really is no need to cook shrimp using this method.

A side note about cooking multi-color carrots. Separate the purple ones from the others as the purple will bleed into and discolor them.
itb.

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Re: Why sous vide?

#139 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » December 16th, 2018, 2:54 pm

Brad Kane wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 2:50 pm
A side note about cooking multi-color carrots. Separate the purple ones from the others as the purple will bleed into and discolor them.
I do this all the time and never have a problem.
Cheers,
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Re: Why sous vide?

#140 Post by Brad Kane » December 16th, 2018, 2:57 pm

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 2:54 pm
Brad Kane wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 2:50 pm
A side note about cooking multi-color carrots. Separate the purple ones from the others as the purple will bleed into and discolor them.
I do this all the time and never have a problem.

Hmmm. I did it twice with them bleeding before I made the switch to separating them.
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Re: Why sous vide?

#141 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » December 16th, 2018, 3:48 pm

Brad Kane wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 2:57 pm
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 2:54 pm
Brad Kane wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 2:50 pm
A side note about cooking multi-color carrots. Separate the purple ones from the others as the purple will bleed into and discolor them.
I do this all the time and never have a problem.
Hmmm. I did it twice with them bleeding before I made the switch to separating them.
Hmmm...I've certainly heard people say that before. Maybe it is how I cook them: 194°F x 15 min under vacuum, with no oil or seasoning (season after).
Cheers,
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Re: Why sous vide?

#142 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » December 16th, 2018, 3:53 pm

I'm working my way through all 16 of the new "Joule Ready" pre-made sous vide sauces from ChefStep. My second sauce was "Creamy Carrot", which I used to prepare Islandic cod loin (sous vide 113°F x 50 min for 1 1/4" thick).

https://shop.chefsteps.com/products/creamy-carrot-sauce

Opening up the folded paper package, I found a sealed, strong ziplock bag containing the sauce. The top needed to be cut off. On the first screen of the Joule app there is a button that prompted me to scan the sauce label which linked me to a single recommended recipe for this sauce. As usual in the app, I could select from multiple proteins, and I chose Black Cod as presumably being reasonably close to my Atlantic Cod.

The recommended sides were a bed of red quinoa, and a quick salad made from julienned red bell pepper, cilantro, lemon, EVOO, S&P.

All-in-all it was a pleasant dish that was quick to prepare. However, the sides were so quick, I was left with a lot of free time that I could have used to prepare something more complicated while waiting for the cod to cook (not necessarily a bad thing).

In particular, the sauce had a nice medium carroty flavor, with no hint of store-bought canned flavor. There was some nice mild+ spice from the Aleppo peppers. However, in some ways this was more of a ginger sauce than a carrot sauce. Whether it is too strong on the ginger will depend on your palate.
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2018-1216 Sous vide Islandic cod loin with ChefSteps sauce.jpg
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Re: Why sous vide?

#143 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » December 17th, 2018, 5:12 pm

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 3:53 pm
I'm working my way through all 16 of the new "Joule Ready" pre-made sous vide sauces from ChefStep. My second sauce was "Creamy Carrot", which I used to prepare Islandic cod loin (sous vide 113°F x 50 min for 1 1/4" thick).

https://shop.chefsteps.com/products/creamy-carrot-sauce

Opening up the folded paper package, I found a sealed, strong ziplock bag containing the sauce. The top needed to be cut off. On the first screen of the Joule app there is a button that prompted me to scan the sauce label which linked me to a single recommended recipe for this sauce. As usual in the app, I could select from multiple proteins, and I chose Black Cod as presumably being reasonably close to my Atlantic Cod.

The recommended sides were a bed of red quinoa, and a quick salad made from julienned red bell pepper, cilantro, lemon, EVOO, S&P.

All-in-all it was a pleasant dish that was quick to prepare. However, the sides were so quick, I was left with a lot of free time that I could have used to prepare something more complicated while waiting for the cod to cook (not necessarily a bad thing).

In particular, the sauce had a nice medium carroty flavor, with no hint of store-bought canned flavor. There was some nice mild+ spice from the Aleppo peppers. However, in some ways this was more of a ginger sauce than a carrot sauce. Whether it is too strong on the ginger will depend on your palate.
The waiting part is aperitivo time.

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Re: Why sous vide?

#144 Post by Anton D » December 17th, 2018, 6:40 pm

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 2:24 pm
Nola Palomar wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 2:12 pm
What about the Pot you cook it in? Seems like most of my pots are too shallow. Any inexpensive hacks?
The 12L Rubbermaid is a popular container (I have two, plus lids with fitted holes for my Joules and an insulated sleeve for long cooks):

Bingo!

To take it up a notch, we also have a 20L, or so, and use two Anovas at a time for 180 degree preps...they don't have to work as hard. (I know that is crazy nerdish, but it works really well, and we got the second one as a gift.) We also routinely cook for 12 or more people, so use the larger water container.

The fitted lids save energy, as well!
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Re: Why sous vide?

#145 Post by Anton D » December 17th, 2018, 6:42 pm

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 3:53 pm
I'm working my way through all 16 of the new "Joule Ready" pre-made sous vide sauces from ChefStep. My second sauce was "Creamy Carrot", which I used to prepare Islandic cod loin (sous vide 113°F x 50 min for 1 1/4" thick).

https://shop.chefsteps.com/products/creamy-carrot-sauce

Opening up the folded paper package, I found a sealed, strong ziplock bag containing the sauce. The top needed to be cut off. On the first screen of the Joule app there is a button that prompted me to scan the sauce label which linked me to a single recommended recipe for this sauce. As usual in the app, I could select from multiple proteins, and I chose Black Cod as presumably being reasonably close to my Atlantic Cod.

The recommended sides were a bed of red quinoa, and a quick salad made from julienned red bell pepper, cilantro, lemon, EVOO, S&P.

All-in-all it was a pleasant dish that was quick to prepare. However, the sides were so quick, I was left with a lot of free time that I could have used to prepare something more complicated while waiting for the cod to cook (not necessarily a bad thing).

In particular, the sauce had a nice medium carroty flavor, with no hint of store-bought canned flavor. There was some nice mild+ spice from the Aleppo peppers. However, in some ways this was more of a ginger sauce than a carrot sauce. Whether it is too strong on the ginger will depend on your palate.
Wow!

I did not know about those sauces!

Thank you!

Time to go learn!
Anton Dotson

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Re: Why sous vide?

#146 Post by Milton Hudson » December 18th, 2018, 8:55 am

K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 1:47 pm
Steven Miller wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 5:47 pm
I've never tried doing sous vide fish in advance and then warming at the last second before plating. We've tried it 3 times so far with varying results. The big winner for us, is how little fish smell pervades the kitchen after dinner.
Given how quickly fish cooks sous vide, is there an advantage to cooking and then re-therming again just before serving? Why not just sous vide and serve? The times for cooking and re-therming will be pretty similar. Of course, you could sous vide, and then later sear the skin just before serving, but I'd be worried that a 1 min sear wouldn't sufficiently warm the fish. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you?

What I like best about sous vide fish is the precise temperature control, which gives me the exact doneness I want without risking over cooking (118F for Salmon, I like my fish on the rare side). Then 60 seconds to crisp up the skin, and mmmmmm....
I made a mistake letting my wife control the anova the other day. I asked her to put some frozen salmon in the bath and set the temp to 50 and turn on so that the salmon would defrost and i could grill when i got home. She just put the salmon in and turned on the anova at 120. By the time i got home from work the salmon was basically cooked and falling apart. So I thought for a minute and grabbed some jalapeno, scallion, egg and panko and made salmon "burgers." Put them on the grill to get a nice crust. Made a nice sauce of capers etc and plated on some greens to big applause. This gets around the texture thing mentioned above and worked out well enough that I might make the mistake again.
I found the sous vide works great to thaw stuff very quickly.

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Re: Why sous vide?

#147 Post by Anton D » December 18th, 2018, 3:47 pm

Milton Hudson wrote:
December 18th, 2018, 8:55 am
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 1:47 pm
Steven Miller wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 5:47 pm
I've never tried doing sous vide fish in advance and then warming at the last second before plating. We've tried it 3 times so far with varying results. The big winner for us, is how little fish smell pervades the kitchen after dinner.
Given how quickly fish cooks sous vide, is there an advantage to cooking and then re-therming again just before serving? Why not just sous vide and serve? The times for cooking and re-therming will be pretty similar. Of course, you could sous vide, and then later sear the skin just before serving, but I'd be worried that a 1 min sear wouldn't sufficiently warm the fish. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you?

What I like best about sous vide fish is the precise temperature control, which gives me the exact doneness I want without risking over cooking (118F for Salmon, I like my fish on the rare side). Then 60 seconds to crisp up the skin, and mmmmmm....
I made a mistake letting my wife control the anova the other day. I asked her to put some frozen salmon in the bath and set the temp to 50 and turn on so that the salmon would defrost and i could grill when i got home. She just put the salmon in and turned on the anova at 120. By the time i got home from work the salmon was basically cooked and falling apart. So I thought for a minute and grabbed some jalapeno, scallion, egg and panko and made salmon "burgers." Put them on the grill to get a nice crust. Made a nice sauce of capers etc and plated on some greens to big applause. This gets around the texture thing mentioned above and worked out well enough that I might make the mistake again.
I found the sous vide works great to thaw stuff very quickly.
Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat!

Kudos!
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Re: Why sous vide?

#148 Post by Nola Palomar » December 18th, 2018, 6:15 pm

Anton D wrote:
December 18th, 2018, 3:47 pm
Milton Hudson wrote:
December 18th, 2018, 8:55 am
K_F_o_l_e_y wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 1:47 pm


Given how quickly fish cooks sous vide, is there an advantage to cooking and then re-therming again just before serving? Why not just sous vide and serve? The times for cooking and re-therming will be pretty similar. Of course, you could sous vide, and then later sear the skin just before serving, but I'd be worried that a 1 min sear wouldn't sufficiently warm the fish. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you?

What I like best about sous vide fish is the precise temperature control, which gives me the exact doneness I want without risking over cooking (118F for Salmon, I like my fish on the rare side). Then 60 seconds to crisp up the skin, and mmmmmm....
I made a mistake letting my wife control the anova the other day. I asked her to put some frozen salmon in the bath and set the temp to 50 and turn on so that the salmon would defrost and i could grill when i got home. She just put the salmon in and turned on the anova at 120. By the time i got home from work the salmon was basically cooked and falling apart. So I thought for a minute and grabbed some jalapeno, scallion, egg and panko and made salmon "burgers." Put them on the grill to get a nice crust. Made a nice sauce of capers etc and plated on some greens to big applause. This gets around the texture thing mentioned above and worked out well enough that I might make the mistake again.
I found the sous vide works great to thaw stuff very quickly.
Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat!

Kudos!
If I could just make something like that from the massive jaws of defeat from fantasy football!! [help.gif]

Awesome, engineering something delicious out of the error!!
Nola
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K_F_o_l_e_y
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Joined: February 14th, 2009, 10:36 am
Location: Boston, MA USA

Re: Why sous vide?

#149 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » December 26th, 2018, 6:57 am

Continuing to work my way through ChefStep's new "Joule Ready" pre-made sous vide sauces. My third sauce was "Spicy Citrus BBQ", which is made with Korean gochujang. I used boneless, skinless chicken thigh, seared on one side and then sous vide at 149°F x 45 min, and served with grilled scallions, steamed sushi rice, quick vacuum-pickled carrots, and wrapped in butterhead lettuce.

https://shop.chefsteps.com/products/spicy-citrus-bbq

This is my favorite sauce so far: quite spicy (probably too spicy if you don't like spicy food), with an excellent, complex depth of flavors. If I served it to you, I'm sure you would think it was made from scratch. I could easily see this working well with pork or beef too. The accompanying sides from the recommended recipe in the Joule app were obviously very simple, so I added a quick pickle to make the lettuce wraps a bit more interesting.
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/<evin


"Ah! Dull-witted mortal, if Fortune stands still, she is no longer Fortune."
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Andrew M c C a b e
Posts: 89
Joined: June 20th, 2017, 5:52 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Why sous vide?

#150 Post by Andrew M c C a b e » December 26th, 2018, 8:48 am

Sous vide cheesecake jars were a hit at christmas dinner. Prebake graham cracker crusts at 350 in the oven for 10 min then fill with the filling. Made 8 4 oz jars. 1.5 hr at 176 deg and 4 hours in the fridge. Good stuff!
Andrew M.

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