Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

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T. Altmayer
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1101 Post by T. Altmayer » June 26th, 2020, 11:16 pm

c fu wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 11:05 pm
T. Altmayer wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Perle, a new French restaurant just opened in Pasadena and I’ve heard good things about the Chef. We badly need a good French restaurant on this side of town.
the menu looks so typical pasadena. Really basic french food. Miso Salmon, Coq au vin, steak frites.
I wonder if they changed it because the menu they first posted was a bit different. There was no Coq au vin. They had a duck and veggies in Aspic Jelly and the salads had chicken liver, etc. Maybe they panicked and went more traditional for the opening.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1102 Post by Frank Z » June 27th, 2020, 6:31 am

Vince L. wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 10:17 pm
Sorry but am I the only who feels this way?

I am amazed by people's urge to eat out at a proper restaurant that even with the news that COVID cases are rising and you're complaining about a spoon vs a fork?

Incredible people's priorities these days.
Thank you for your thoughts, and I respect your opinion. However, I do think that service is an integral part of the meal, especially when dining in. Otherwise, why not just stick to take out food then?

To provide some more details, we were seated in the corner table away at the very front of the restaurant away from the main dining area. The meal should not have lasted nearly 4 hours (probably 2.5 hours was average for other tables that were seated at the same time as us) if they were more observant and had more wait staff working. I wouldn’t call this complaining, but I just wanted to point these small things out in my review, especially since by the time I asked someone to bring us spoons, the fish soup had already become cold. I hope you would agree that 1. it isn’t proper to drink soup by lifting the bowl directly, and that 2. soup should be served warm.

If I truly wanted to complain - I would have complained about the corkage to the GM. If I had knew about corkage prior to arriving at the restaurant, I would have brought a different bottle. However, given that I fully understand that during these uncertain times, a lot of things are still up in the air, I recognize that they’re doing the best they can.

Ultimately, bottom line, I enjoyed the meal and was able to connect with the wait staff, and thus I look forward to returning.
Frank Zhang

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1103 Post by Philip Liao » June 27th, 2020, 9:20 am

c fu wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 11:05 pm
T. Altmayer wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Perle, a new French restaurant just opened in Pasadena and I’ve heard good things about the Chef. We badly need a good French restaurant on this side of town.
the menu looks so typical pasadena. Really basic french food. Miso Salmon, Coq au vin, steak frites.
Yeah the menu seems a little early 2000's, a la Balthazar. But if it's done right, bistro cuisine is always welcome, especially since not much great bistros/brasseries in LA. Steak frites, sole meunier - that's what people want. Doubt many people would even try something like andouillette. This just makes me want to go back to France, but Americans are banned....Le sigh.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1104 Post by M. Meer » June 30th, 2020, 2:42 pm

Any opinions on Fishwives?
TIA.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1105 Post by c fu » June 30th, 2020, 10:16 pm

M. Meer wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 2:42 pm
Any opinions on Fishwives?
TIA.
it's aight. i've been a few times. Their seafood is fine. The cooking is kinda simple. But we don't really have a ton of options in the area for that type of food. Very wine friendly tho!
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1106 Post by M. Meer » July 1st, 2020, 12:15 pm

c fu wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 10:16 pm

it's aight. i've been a few times. Their seafood is fine. The cooking is kinda simple. But we don't really have a ton of options in the area for that type of food. Very wine friendly tho!
Aha, many thanks. Will give it a try and tread carefully through the menu.

Wish we had something like Bar Crudo.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1107 Post by J. Rock » July 1st, 2020, 6:02 pm

I just had Dialogue's 7 course (plus a slice of ridiculously amazing cheesecake) summer prologue tasting menu and was blown away. I expected the food to taste great, but wasn't really sure how their concept would translate to takeout. Not only was the food generally incredible, but you could tell that the staff put so much thought into the menu and specifically how to execute it very well in a takeout format. My wife and I were really impressed and I highly recommend trying this out if you're in the mood for something that's a bit more sophisticated than your traditional takeout.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1108 Post by Peter Simpson » July 1st, 2020, 7:26 pm

Talking about Pasadena, my wife's sister lives in Sierra Madre, and every time we visit her we have dinner at Altaeats on Allen Drive on the East side of Pasadena. Probably eaten there half a dozen times over the last year or two and never been disappointed. Curbside pickup only currently.

https://altaeats.com/menu Their Beef Wellington is fantastic!
Cheers, Peter

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1109 Post by Philip Liao » July 3rd, 2020, 10:20 am

Benny P wrote:
August 8th, 2019, 5:58 pm
A little off the beaten path but there's Babita restaurant in San Gabriel about 10 or so miles east of Downtown LA if craving elevated Mexican food. It's been awhile so not sure how it is these days, but a change of pace from the various taco shops and more casual restaurants in the area.
Babita is a gem - great little Mexican/French bistro drawing from Sinaloa, Mexico City, and California. Love the Chiles en Nogada with pomegranate, beef cheek barbacoa, and habanero shrimp, but everything is pretty good. They also have a nice wine list with a lot of Valle de Guadalupe. Flavors remind me of Maximo Bistrot in CDMX but less hip. It's really just honest cooking from Chef Roberto.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1110 Post by johngonzales » July 7th, 2020, 6:35 pm

Philip Liao wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 10:20 am
Benny P wrote:
August 8th, 2019, 5:58 pm
A little off the beaten path but there's Babita restaurant in San Gabriel about 10 or so miles east of Downtown LA if craving elevated Mexican food. It's been awhile so not sure how it is these days, but a change of pace from the various taco shops and more casual restaurants in the area.
Babita is a gem - great little Mexican/French bistro drawing from Sinaloa, Mexico City, and California. Love the Chiles en Nogada with pomegranate, beef cheek barbacoa, and habanero shrimp, but everything is pretty good. They also have a nice wine list with a lot of Valle de Guadalupe. Flavors remind me of Maximo Bistrot in CDMX but less hip. It's really just honest cooking from Chef Roberto.
Good summary, though I don’t think “French” really fits at all. It’s pretty much elevated Mexican, meaning just a bit of Euro technique. I LOVE the Chile’s en Nogada there. We’ve tried our best to replicate. They often don’t have it, in which case I lean toward a shrimp dish. Roberto likes some good tequila.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1111 Post by B. Buzzini » July 9th, 2020, 8:58 pm

APL Hollywood takeout? Be there sat...worthy...or should I just do in-n-out?
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1112 Post by Philip Liao » July 10th, 2020, 9:54 am

B. Buzzini wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 8:58 pm
APL Hollywood takeout? Be there sat...worthy...or should I just do in-n-out?
APL is great - it’s Adam perry Lang and Jimmy kimmel’s joint. Lang of le cirque, Daniel, Daisy Mays fame. Their take out plates are good like chicken fried steak with mash, greens, and gravy. They also do a great matzo ball soup and wedge salad. The BBQ is legit, brisket, ribs, pulled pork - he is a grand champion and in the bbq hall of fame after all. Steaks of course are good but I haven’t gotten it with takeout. My favorite was the 150+ day dry-aged tomahawk. I don’t think anywhere in LA is offering that length of age, and it’s all done in-house.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1113 Post by johngonzales » July 11th, 2020, 3:51 pm

We did an offline at APL with a wide range of agings. I can’t recall exactly which durations but I think we did something around 100 and something closer to 200. I thought the longest aged one was like an interesting experiment but not really tasty. The next in duration was better, but really didn’t seem as good to me as the few we had that were around 30 days.
Interestingly, I don’t think much at APL s actually prime.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1114 Post by c fu » July 12th, 2020, 10:14 pm

johngonzales wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 3:51 pm
We did an offline at APL with a wide range of agings. I can’t recall exactly which durations but I think we did something around 100 and something closer to 200. I thought the longest aged one was like an interesting experiment but not really tasty. The next in duration was better, but really didn’t seem as good to me as the few we had that were around 30 days.
Interestingly, I don’t think much at APL s actually prime.
all the stuff we had was prime, but they stopped their dry aging sales for take out =(

That was a fun dinner.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1115 Post by c fu » July 13th, 2020, 4:56 pm

Sqirl in a jammy situation

https://la.eater.com/2020/7/13/21322591 ... geles-news
Nationally-known Virgil Village restaurant Sqirl came under fire over the weekend after allegations of questionable food handling practices and mistreated employees found their way to social media. Owner Jessica Koslow spent at least a portion of the weekend defending her mega-popular daytime spot — known for its toasts, jams, sorrel pesto rice bowls, and long lines, even during the pandemic — from online allegations that the company’s well-known jams were not stored properly, leading to thick layers of mold atop open containers. Employees were reportedly told to scrape the mold off before serving it in the restaurant. Sqirl eventually turned off comments to its Instagram posts, and the account seems to have blocked several former employees across social media.
Koslow responded
With bulk jam, the product is poured into containers hot, cooled completely, and then stored in the walk-in. With this bulk jam, over time, mold would sometimes develop on the surface that we handled with the guidance of preservation mentors and experts like Dr. Patrick HIckey, by discarding mold and several inches below the mold, or by discarding containers altogether.
But as it blew up and more experts chimed in.. she issued an apology

https://la.eater.com/2020/7/13/21323422 ... -moldy-jam
I take the safety and health of my staff and customers seriously. All of the retail jam we have ever sold—which is to say the jam in jars that is bought from us and at stores—is pasteurized and canned with the “hot pack” method that makes the growth of mold basically impossible. That same recipe is used in the restaurant, but because the jam is low in sugar and we don’t use chemicals or preservatives there were occasional instances where mold would develop on the surface.

When this happened we would remove it. To guide this practice I relied on the research and guidance of health experts and to my knowledge thought it was safe.

I eat the same jam I serve my customers, family and friends and would never knowingly serve any food that would put their health at risk. I realize that I was wrong and I am sorry.

We have already thrown out any jam with mold on it and will continue to do so moving forward. Jam with mold will not be permitted in any of our kitchens or our restaurant.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1116 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » July 13th, 2020, 5:10 pm

Some people are too dumb to be allowed to eat in good restaurants.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1117 Post by Adam Frisch » July 14th, 2020, 5:46 am

APL is great. But it's very pricy. If I'm just having a nice steak, I prefer to just go across the street to Musso & Frank's and get 90% of the quality for 50% of the price.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1118 Post by saul_cooperstein » July 14th, 2020, 10:39 am

That was a fun offline. We had steaks ranging from 50 days (ribeye) to ~100 (tomahawk), 200+ (porter house) to 1yr+ (NY strip). Wines also showed very well from what I remember without any bad bottles
c fu wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 10:14 pm
johngonzales wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 3:51 pm
We did an offline at APL with a wide range of agings. I can’t recall exactly which durations but I think we did something around 100 and something closer to 200. I thought the longest aged one was like an interesting experiment but not really tasty. The next in duration was better, but really didn’t seem as good to me as the few we had that were around 30 days.
Interestingly, I don’t think much at APL s actually prime.
all the stuff we had was prime, but they stopped their dry aging sales for take out =(

That was a fun dinner.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1119 Post by johngonzales » July 14th, 2020, 3:14 pm

saul_cooperstein wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 10:39 am
That was a fun offline. We had steaks ranging from 50 days (ribeye) to ~100 (tomahawk), 200+ (porter house) to 1yr+ (NY strip). Wines also showed very well from what I remember without any bad bottles
c fu wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 10:14 pm
johngonzales wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 3:51 pm
We did an offline at APL with a wide range of agings. I can’t recall exactly which durations but I think we did something around 100 and something closer to 200. I thought the longest aged one was like an interesting experiment but not really tasty. The next in duration was better, but really didn’t seem as good to me as the few we had that were around 30 days.
Interestingly, I don’t think much at APL s actually prime.
all the stuff we had was prime, but they stopped their dry aging sales for take out =(

That was a fun dinner.
Hmm. I thought someone told me APL didn’t do prime. My bad. That was definitely a fun dinner. Saul getting sun the hook-up made it a great qpr. I can’t recall the wine theme, aside from having brought an old Bordeaux.

I’m going out tonight to a restaurant for the first time in four months.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1120 Post by Philip Liao » July 14th, 2020, 3:43 pm

c fu wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:56 pm
Sqirl in a jammy situation

https://la.eater.com/2020/7/13/21322591 ... geles-news
Nationally-known Virgil Village restaurant Sqirl came under fire over the weekend after allegations of questionable food handling practices and mistreated employees found their way to social media. Owner Jessica Koslow spent at least a portion of the weekend defending her mega-popular daytime spot — known for its toasts, jams, sorrel pesto rice bowls, and long lines, even during the pandemic — from online allegations that the company’s well-known jams were not stored properly, leading to thick layers of mold atop open containers. Employees were reportedly told to scrape the mold off before serving it in the restaurant. Sqirl eventually turned off comments to its Instagram posts, and the account seems to have blocked several former employees across social media.
Koslow responded
With bulk jam, the product is poured into containers hot, cooled completely, and then stored in the walk-in. With this bulk jam, over time, mold would sometimes develop on the surface that we handled with the guidance of preservation mentors and experts like Dr. Patrick HIckey, by discarding mold and several inches below the mold, or by discarding containers altogether.
But as it blew up and more experts chimed in.. she issued an apology

https://la.eater.com/2020/7/13/21323422 ... -moldy-jam
I take the safety and health of my staff and customers seriously. All of the retail jam we have ever sold—which is to say the jam in jars that is bought from us and at stores—is pasteurized and canned with the “hot pack” method that makes the growth of mold basically impossible. That same recipe is used in the restaurant, but because the jam is low in sugar and we don’t use chemicals or preservatives there were occasional instances where mold would develop on the surface.

When this happened we would remove it. To guide this practice I relied on the research and guidance of health experts and to my knowledge thought it was safe.

I eat the same jam I serve my customers, family and friends and would never knowingly serve any food that would put their health at risk. I realize that I was wrong and I am sorry.

We have already thrown out any jam with mold on it and will continue to do so moving forward. Jam with mold will not be permitted in any of our kitchens or our restaurant.
Always disliked Sqirl, went there once and never again. But good to know that the retail jam didn't have mold, only people that ate at the restaurant got to enjoy the mold.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1121 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » July 14th, 2020, 4:12 pm

Right, because mold is obviously, unequivocally and always an evil sign of unsanitary conditions. That's why I never eat cheese or dry aged meat, or take penicillin.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1122 Post by Philip Liao » July 14th, 2020, 7:43 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:12 pm
Right, because mold is obviously, unequivocally and always an evil sign of unsanitary conditions. That's why I never eat cheese or dry aged meat, or take penicillin.
Wow I don’t get why you are defending spoiled jam. If you want to risk it that’s on you but Sqirl is a restaurant that serves the public.

Also obviously not all molds are the same. Yeah you can cut off mold from cheese or preserved meats but The USDA says:

“jam mold could be producing a mycotoxin. Microbiologists recommend against scooping out the mold and using the remaining condiment.”
https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fs ... _/ct_index

The National Center for Home Food Preservation also says to check homemade jam for “mold or yeast growth” and “discard the product immediately if any signs of spoilage are detected.”
https://nchfp.uga.edu/questions/FAQ_jellied.html

Michigan State University also says: “If your jam or jelly has mold, throw it out. Low or no-sugar jellied products and those that were improperly processed are more likely to ferment because of yeast growth. Throw anything out that is fermented.”
https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/preserve_ ... nd_jellies

As for the mycologist that Koslow said told her it was ok to scrape off the mold, he claims to have never spoken to her:

“Reached by phone in Edinburgh, Scotland, Hickey — a mycologist who studies the structures of mold growth — seemed perplexed that Koslow would drop his name. He does not recall having ever met or spoken to her, he said.
He did give a 2014 interview to the BBC in which he suggested that some moldy items found in people’s home refrigerators, including jam, would probably be safe to eat with the mold removed. But a commercial operation is far different, he noted in an interview.
For one thing, he said, there’s no way of knowing how much of the jam below the surface has been contaminated. “There’s a danger that the toxins could build up in that jam and diffuse down deeper,” he said. Another risk is to people working around the area where the scraping was done, he added. While most people breathe in plenty of mold in their everyday lives, scraping mold off — and depositing it into a bucket — could create high concentrations.
Depending on the type of mold, the spores could cause infections, particularly in immunocompromised people, he noted.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v ... t-approve/

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1123 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » July 15th, 2020, 4:48 am

Glad to see you had that much time on your hands.

I've never been to Sqirl, nor am I in favor of mold, but I do think this particular kerfuffle is ridiculous. I'm sick of people getting hysterical. Food safety regulations always err on the side of caution, based on tiny possibilities of risk, and I think a lot of the measures in the name of commercial safety are stupid. Food safety rules also tell you to cook pork to the point where it's totally dead, insist that restaurants refrigerate cheese at all times, and won't allow cheese to be aged on anything made of wood because of overly zealous concerns about "safety." Because of the "risk," 3/4 of French cheese is illegal to import into the US and I'm sure you could find at least as many warning little quotations as you found about jam concerning why raw milk cheese is so dangerous. People get hysterical over anything that doesn't appear sterile or perfect, and certainly love the chance to bring someone down with a smear like this.

So yeah, I think getting all upset about scraping off some mold is dumb.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1124 Post by johngonzales » July 15th, 2020, 10:35 am

The issue is that mold is somehow integral and beneficial to cheese. It isn’t with jam. So I’ll have the fresh jam. It doesn’t taste any better because of the mold. Even without preservatives or excessive sugar it can be prepared to prevent mold growth. Easily. She’s not making a better product by having mold on it, she was just making it convenient for herself.
This isn’t some referendum on cheese import laws. It’s moldy jam which doesn’t need to be, and it’s employing a practice which is not sanitary or safe. Yes, food safety and health laws can be stringent. It’s hard to argue against them and pick/choose when you get to violate them. Note that she admittedly was using a kitchen area that she never got permitted, though she says the jam was not made there there. It all reflects upon discipline. I have employees and wouldn’t have them scraping off that much mold without wearing a mask, so that’s a potential issue as well.

I don’t know about others, but I’m not “hysterical”. Sounds like she has some other issues which I don’t care as much about. I actually think the place is over-rated and don’t go, mostly due to crowd and proximity. But I’m glad she realizes she was wrong and is changing practice. I don’t really know that the mold discussion itself was “bringing her down”. She was doing something that the health dept and many customers find objectionable. It’s her own doing. Making it public is just reality and actually got her to change. Now she gets to move on, with the correction completed. She doesn’t “deserve” to have people act like it never happened. But she deserves whatever goodwill she built with her customer-to counteract the mold issue.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1125 Post by Philip Liao » July 15th, 2020, 11:12 am

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 4:48 am
Glad to see you had that much time on your hands.

I've never been to Sqirl, nor am I in favor of mold, but I do think this particular kerfuffle is ridiculous. I'm sick of people getting hysterical. Food safety regulations always err on the side of caution, based on tiny possibilities of risk, and I think a lot of the measures in the name of commercial safety are stupid. Food safety rules also tell you to cook pork to the point where it's totally dead, insist that restaurants refrigerate cheese at all times, and won't allow cheese to be aged on anything made of wood because of overly zealous concerns about "safety." Because of the "risk," 3/4 of French cheese is illegal to import into the US and I'm sure you could find at least as many warning little quotations as you found about jam concerning why raw milk cheese is so dangerous. People get hysterical over anything that doesn't appear sterile or perfect, and certainly love the chance to bring someone down with a smear like this.

So yeah, I think getting all upset about scraping off some mold is dumb.
Lol ok. It’s not that hard to google something. And you can stop with your whataboutisms.

It seems like you’re the one getting hysterical. People are just pointing out that moldy jam is not ok to eat or serve the public. She admitted to serving the moldy jam - naturally people will be repulsed. The very mycologist she cited denies ever telling her it’s ok. And Sqirl was built on this jam.

Also agree with what John said: don’t see how mold in jam improves the product.....she’s serving old spoiled jam!!!

And I purposefully didn’t bring up the slew of other allegations as well which I don’t want to get into.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1126 Post by J. Rock » July 27th, 2020, 12:30 pm

RIP Trois Mec :( I realllly hope Petit Trois can hang in there. https://la.eater.com/2020/7/24/21337846 ... virus-news
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1127 Post by T. Altmayer » August 3rd, 2020, 6:39 pm

c fu wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 11:05 pm
T. Altmayer wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Perle, a new French restaurant just opened in Pasadena and I’ve heard good things about the Chef. We badly need a good French restaurant on this side of town.
the menu looks so typical pasadena. Really basic french food. Miso Salmon, Coq au vin, steak frites.
So did take out on Saturday. Yes, it is a fairly basic bistro menu, but it is done very well (ala Bouchon). Not something to make a special trip for, but I sure hope they last in Pasadena because it is a step up from Entre Nous, the only other restaurant that claims to be French in Pasadena. They also have a pretty decent wine list given their size.

Had the Yellow Gazpacho and surprisingly it was one of the better soups I've had this year (obviously not getting out a lot). Very aromatic with light and delicate flavors. I would not have called it a Gazpacho because I don't think it does the soup justice. The Moules and Frites were very nice, although I would have done the frites with a little less time in the fryer. For Pasadena, this is a step up for French food, but not innovative or outside the box. That being said, gotta take what you can get in this food desert and this is a welcome addition.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1128 Post by alan weinberg » August 4th, 2020, 8:27 pm

Bazaar closing.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1129 Post by saul_cooperstein » August 4th, 2020, 8:44 pm

The closing of bazaar and Somni are devastating.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1130 Post by c fu » August 4th, 2020, 10:47 pm

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1131 Post by Robert Dentice » August 5th, 2020, 8:00 am

And Broken Spanish

https://la.eater.com/2020/8/4/21354073/ ... n-downtown

I only went once recently, I think February of this year, and the Chef took amazingly good care of us and I was excited to go back.

LA citizens - It seems to me high-end restaurant closures are hitting LA moreso than Chicago, NY or SF. Any thoughts as to why?

One thought is that it is just a matter of time before it hits other cities.

Another is that higher-end restaurants were struggling more pre-COVID in LA. I went to Angler either late last year or early 2020, definitely pre-COVID and it was 1/5 full on a Friday night at 8:00.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1132 Post by T. Altmayer » August 5th, 2020, 8:21 am

DTLA is a bad place to be for restaurants right now and for near future. My wife’s firm said they may be out of their DTLA office until next June. Restaurants like Broken Spanish just can’t take the risk that DTLA will be back any time soon.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1133 Post by Adam Frisch » August 5th, 2020, 6:57 pm

Yeah, I think it relies so heavily upon the office/business crowd that with that in shambles, there is a more exaggerated drop. And those living DTLA, probably preferring to dine in. I live only 10-15 mins away, and although we used to go quite a bit, it's still an undertaking, so with all this going on, it's hard to pull in people from outside.

One more thing - LA and CA has probably the most fickle dining scene. Crowds embrace things fast here, smother it almost, but then they also move on pretty fast. I think many hospitality entrepreneurs has this as a calculated model - they go in big, lavish, knowing they will probably just have a 5 year run and then sell/move on. Now, with the prospect of 2 years out of that life cycle gone, it's hard to eat those big overheads. Just a guess.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1134 Post by Robert Dentice » August 5th, 2020, 7:26 pm

I hear you on DTLA however Trois Mec, Bazaar, Somni and Auburn, among others were not in DTLA.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1135 Post by Vince L. » August 5th, 2020, 8:44 pm

Adam Frisch wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 6:57 pm
One more thing - LA and CA has probably the most fickle dining scene. Crowds embrace things fast here, smother it almost, but then they also move on pretty fast. I think many hospitality entrepreneurs has this as a calculated model - they go in big, lavish, knowing they will probably just have a 5 year run and then sell/move on. Now, with the prospect of 2 years out of that life cycle gone, it's hard to eat those big overheads. Just a guess.
This.

I've been to places where after a few years it's a new joint. I walk in and notice its the same people. I asked them once, and they flat out said people in LA get bored. So they run with a concept for a couple years, then rebrand etc.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1136 Post by Adam Frisch » August 5th, 2020, 9:01 pm

Vince L. wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 8:44 pm

This.

I've been to places where after a few years it's a new joint. I walk in and notice its the same people. I asked them once, and they flat out said people in LA get bored. So they run with a concept for a couple years, then rebrand etc.
It's the same with people here - you throw a party, send out e-invitations where 100 people confirm they're coming - then 30 turn up. And when you see them the next day and ask them what happened, they're like "oh, we decided to go surfing instead". I'd be mortified if I'd confess to that so openly, but here nobody bats an eyelid (as everyone does it). Short attentions spans and always looking for something more "fun".

Either that, or I really throw shitty parties... [wink.gif] [tease.gif]
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1137 Post by c fu » August 5th, 2020, 9:54 pm

Robert Dentice wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 8:00 am
And Broken Spanish

https://la.eater.com/2020/8/4/21354073/ ... n-downtown

I only went once recently, I think February of this year, and the Chef took amazingly good care of us and I was excited to go back.

LA citizens - It seems to me high-end restaurant closures are hitting LA moreso than Chicago, NY or SF. Any thoughts as to why?

One thought is that it is just a matter of time before it hits other cities.

Another is that higher-end restaurants were struggling more pre-COVID in LA. I went to Angler either late last year or early 2020, definitely pre-COVID and it was 1/5 full on a Friday night at 8:00.
Angler was struggling from the get go cause the location was terrible. No one wants to go to Beverly Center. It's 20+ minutes away after you get off the freeway. They picked such a bad location just because rent was basically free. Probably another reason why they aren't doing any food out of the restaurant right now, costs are limited if no staff.

Broken Spanish had a similar issue, i don't think it was ever full in the times i've been.

Bazaar/Somni was a relationship issue with the hotel owners. It would have kept going if the hotel owners didn't want to cut bait.

Trois Mec was already trending down in business and I guess Ludo was reluctant to do take out. I felt like he could have easily done take out style, it wasn't like he was serving 200 seats a night.

Auburn.. they spent too much money opening the place. They couldn't survive without having a full house dining in every night and no one wanted to give them a life line with the amount of money they owed still.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1138 Post by Philip Liao » August 6th, 2020, 2:30 pm

Adam Frisch wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:01 pm
Vince L. wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 8:44 pm

This.

I've been to places where after a few years it's a new joint. I walk in and notice its the same people. I asked them once, and they flat out said people in LA get bored. So they run with a concept for a couple years, then rebrand etc.
It's the same with people here - you throw a party, send out e-invitations where 100 people confirm they're coming - then 30 turn up. And when you see them the next day and ask them what happened, they're like "oh, we decided to go surfing instead". I'd be mortified if I'd confess to that so openly, but here nobody bats an eyelid (as everyone does it). Short attentions spans and always looking for something more "fun".

Either that, or I really throw shitty parties... [wink.gif] [tease.gif]
Ha that's pretty typical LA until you are the hot new thing and then everybody wants a piece.

Nicole Rucker did an interview for Good Food (I think) and basically said that she had to close Fiona because there weren't enough repeat customers. When they first opened, people would just come in, order food, take pictures, and then leave. Without eating!

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1139 Post by c fu » August 6th, 2020, 5:57 pm

Philip Liao wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 2:30 pm
Adam Frisch wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:01 pm
Vince L. wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 8:44 pm

This.

I've been to places where after a few years it's a new joint. I walk in and notice its the same people. I asked them once, and they flat out said people in LA get bored. So they run with a concept for a couple years, then rebrand etc.
It's the same with people here - you throw a party, send out e-invitations where 100 people confirm they're coming - then 30 turn up. And when you see them the next day and ask them what happened, they're like "oh, we decided to go surfing instead". I'd be mortified if I'd confess to that so openly, but here nobody bats an eyelid (as everyone does it). Short attentions spans and always looking for something more "fun".

Either that, or I really throw shitty parties... [wink.gif] [tease.gif]
Ha that's pretty typical LA until you are the hot new thing and then everybody wants a piece.

Nicole Rucker did an interview for Good Food (I think) and basically said that she had to close Fiona because there weren't enough repeat customers. When they first opened, people would just come in, order food, take pictures, and then leave. Without eating!
I have a tough time believing that. Fiona aint that special
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1140 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » August 6th, 2020, 6:16 pm

c fu wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:54 pm
Robert Dentice wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 8:00 am
And Broken Spanish

https://la.eater.com/2020/8/4/21354073/ ... n-downtown

I only went once recently, I think February of this year, and the Chef took amazingly good care of us and I was excited to go back.

LA citizens - It seems to me high-end restaurant closures are hitting LA moreso than Chicago, NY or SF. Any thoughts as to why?

One thought is that it is just a matter of time before it hits other cities.

Another is that higher-end restaurants were struggling more pre-COVID in LA. I went to Angler either late last year or early 2020, definitely pre-COVID and it was 1/5 full on a Friday night at 8:00.
Angler was struggling from the get go cause the location was terrible. No one wants to go to Beverly Center. It's 20+ minutes away after you get off the freeway. They picked such a bad location just because rent was basically free. Probably another reason why they aren't doing any food out of the restaurant right now, costs are limited if no staff.

Broken Spanish had a similar issue, i don't think it was ever full in the times i've been.

Bazaar/Somni was a relationship issue with the hotel owners. It would have kept going if the hotel owners didn't want to cut bait.

Trois Mec was already trending down in business and I guess Ludo was reluctant to do take out. I felt like he could have easily done take out style, it wasn't like he was serving 200 seats a night.

Auburn.. they spent too much money opening the place. They couldn't survive without having a full house dining in every night and no one wanted to give them a life line with the amount of money they owed still.
broken spanish was in the old rivera spot right? That place churned constantly.

As far as bev center goes, i agree that no one wants to go there, but then again, 3rd st and restaurant row are right next to there, so, not 100% sure.

Even without covid even popular LA places would go down, often it's creative stuff between the investors and chef (leona, brilliantshine, etc)

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1141 Post by c fu » August 6th, 2020, 6:23 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 6:16 pm
c fu wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:54 pm
Robert Dentice wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 8:00 am
And Broken Spanish

https://la.eater.com/2020/8/4/21354073/ ... n-downtown

I only went once recently, I think February of this year, and the Chef took amazingly good care of us and I was excited to go back.

LA citizens - It seems to me high-end restaurant closures are hitting LA moreso than Chicago, NY or SF. Any thoughts as to why?

One thought is that it is just a matter of time before it hits other cities.

Another is that higher-end restaurants were struggling more pre-COVID in LA. I went to Angler either late last year or early 2020, definitely pre-COVID and it was 1/5 full on a Friday night at 8:00.
Angler was struggling from the get go cause the location was terrible. No one wants to go to Beverly Center. It's 20+ minutes away after you get off the freeway. They picked such a bad location just because rent was basically free. Probably another reason why they aren't doing any food out of the restaurant right now, costs are limited if no staff.

Broken Spanish had a similar issue, i don't think it was ever full in the times i've been.

Bazaar/Somni was a relationship issue with the hotel owners. It would have kept going if the hotel owners didn't want to cut bait.

Trois Mec was already trending down in business and I guess Ludo was reluctant to do take out. I felt like he could have easily done take out style, it wasn't like he was serving 200 seats a night.

Auburn.. they spent too much money opening the place. They couldn't survive without having a full house dining in every night and no one wanted to give them a life line with the amount of money they owed still.
broken spanish was in the old rivera spot right? That place churned constantly.

As far as bev center goes, i agree that no one wants to go there, but then again, 3rd st and restaurant row are right next to there, so, not 100% sure.

Even without covid even popular LA places would go down, often it's creative stuff between the investors and chef (leona, brilliantshine, etc)
Yep - old rivera spot. I think investors keep thinking it's so close to Staples Center and it'll get that traffic, but most people aren't dining in for long dinners pre/post game.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1142 Post by saul_cooperstein » August 6th, 2020, 7:15 pm

Things to be aware of with respect to restaurants these days:

1) Los Angeles minimum wage at $15 flat vs Chicago and NYC which provide tip credit offset for good portion of FOH wages

2) One of primary drivers of performance has been location and more specifically the percentage of area population that is transient (tourist + business) vs residential...this is likely why DTLA has been hit so hard

3) Los Angeles industries have also been harder hit i believe - particularly entertainment where challenges with agency (going back to writer representation issues beginnning a while ago) and networks not being able to go into production for shows

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1143 Post by J. Rock » August 8th, 2020, 9:33 am

DTLA dining will be particularly devastated with no after work and work lunch crowd. I'm surprised Nick + Stef's hasn't closed for good yet (though, I'm happy they haven't) since I don't believe it's considered a particularly trendy or cool spot, and I thought it survived off of the work crowd.

I'm really bummed about Somni (and Bazaar), but that is a legal dispute.

I'm really hoping Dialogue, Vespertine and Scratch don't close, but I know it must be brutal right now, even though restaurants seem to be hanging in there a bit better on the West Side for the time being.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1144 Post by Philip Liao » August 8th, 2020, 12:15 pm

J. Rock wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 9:33 am
DTLA dining will be particularly devastated with no after work and work lunch crowd. I'm surprised Nick + Stef's hasn't closed for good yet (though, I'm happy they haven't) since I don't believe it's considered a particularly trendy or cool spot, and I thought it survived off of the work crowd.

I'm really bummed about Somni (and Bazaar), but that is a legal dispute.

I'm really hoping Dialogue, Vespertine and Scratch don't close, but I know it must be brutal right now, even though restaurants seem to be hanging in there a bit better on the West Side for the time being.
Vespertines been doing takeout and I think it’s sold out every week. They also did a pop up recently with 2 hour lines. I’ve actually been enjoying the takeout more than the old dine in menu. Seems more soulful and who he is, particularly with the Savannah and Cuban series.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1145 Post by M. Meer » September 4th, 2020, 9:23 pm

I ended up doing take out at Fishwives today. It was good overall; we liked some things more than others.

Salmon temaki were great. I could eat those all day. I would skip that blue crab, in fact. Mixed greens, very nice. The produce seemed of notable quality, and the salad wasn't just an afterthought. Fried oysters/deviled eggs were done just right. The dungeness in the crab roll was way better than the quality of the blue crab but overall just good. Fries were okay, too. I dunno if things just needy some salt, but I didn't have any with me.

Charlie's review was pretty spot on. I might not rush back tomorrow per se -- well, maybe for the salmon -- but I would go back and try a few more things.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1146 Post by Adam Frisch » September 7th, 2020, 7:05 pm

Been meaning to try forever, but just finally had L'Antica Pizzeria da Michele as a takeaway. As far as I understand, this is the first ever satellite of the famous da Michele pizzeria in Naples (which claim to be the birth place of pizza, pretty much). Contrary to that one, who only serve Margherita and Marinara, this one had wider options, but still in very traditional vein. I had a Capricciosa (which you don't see much here in the US) and it was excellent. Wife had a spicy soppressata and it was also very nice - a flirt with the US pepperoni crowd, no doubt. It compares very well with the best NY old world traditionalists. Restaurant also had a nice modernist vibe with outdoor seating, I'd love to come back and dine in one day.
Last edited by Adam Frisch on September 7th, 2020, 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1147 Post by Barry L i p t o n » September 7th, 2020, 7:12 pm

Milan has an outpost

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1148 Post by Philip Liao » September 8th, 2020, 6:32 pm

Adam Frisch wrote:
September 7th, 2020, 7:05 pm
Been meaning to try forever, but just finally had L'Antica Pizzeria da Michele as a takeaway. As far as I understand, this is the first ever satellite of the famous da Michele pizzeria in Naples (which claim to be the birth place of pizza, pretty much). Contrary to that one, who only serve Margherita and Marinara, this one had wider options, but still in very traditional vein. I had a Capricciosa (which you don't see much here in the US) and it was excellent. Wife had a spicy soppressata and it was also very nice - a flirt with the US pepperoni crowd, no doubt. It compares very well with the best NY old world traditionalists. Restaurant also had a nice modernist vibe with outdoor seating, I'd love to come back and dine in one day.
Outdoor space is very nice. Pizzas pretty good, not quite like Naples - the one here uses cow's milk mozzarella instead of bufala.

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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1149 Post by Adam Frisch » September 8th, 2020, 6:39 pm

Philip Liao wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 6:32 pm


Outdoor space is very nice. Pizzas pretty good, not quite like Naples - the one here uses cow's milk mozzarella instead of bufala.
And if I may nitpick, the dough was slightly undercooked. But now that I know how they roll, I can probably ask for 1min more hang time, next time around.

It's funny. When I moved to LA 10 years ago, this was where death warmed over got passed as pizza. The pits. Even the worst NY pizzerias beat everything hands down here. Last 5 years it's shaped up really nicely and now there are a number of really good spots. [thumbs-up.gif]
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Re: Eating and Drinking in Los Angeles

#1150 Post by Philip Liao » September 8th, 2020, 6:48 pm

Adam Frisch wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 6:39 pm
Philip Liao wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 6:32 pm


Outdoor space is very nice. Pizzas pretty good, not quite like Naples - the one here uses cow's milk mozzarella instead of bufala.
And if I may nitpick, the dough was slightly undercooked. But now that I know how they roll, I can probably ask for 1min more hang time, next time around.

It's funny. When I moved to LA 10 years ago, this was where death warmed over got passed as pizza. The pits. Even the worst NY pizzerias beat everything hands down here. Last 5 years it's shaped up really nicely and now there are a number of really good spots. [thumbs-up.gif]
I agree. Roberta's opened up a few years back and now you can even get squares at places. And Prince Street is opening up here.

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