Question about Pressing

For all of the wine making pros out there, I’m curious about your opinion in the situation described below.

This past vintage ('08), I purchased 1000lbs of syrah from a vineyard in the Los Alamos/Santa Maria Valley area.

After pressing using a standard bladder press, I produced 88 total gallons of juice.

Here’s my very general question; does 88 gallons sound high? Low? Average?

I was anticipating producing slightly over a barrel’s worth of juice, but 88 (in my limited experience) sounds like a lot.

Thanks in advance for your comments!

Cheers,
Brett

Sounds like perhaps a touch better than average but far from out of the realm of possibility. How well measured was your 1000lbs starting quantity? Depending on who was measuring / how things were done, you could have been off by a sizable percentage on your 1000 lbs starting quantity. Like if 1000lbs means “a full 1/2 ton pick bin as picked in the field” maybe it was 925 lbs, maybe it was 1143 lbs you know? Even if it was weighed, if therewasn’t anywhere else to put any overage, why take it out of the bin?

We get as low as 135-140 gals/ton from our basket press to 160-180 gals/ton from the bladder press. Seems within reason.

Seems within the normal limits, but on the higher end of the range. That’s pretty impressive for such a small amount of grapes. In my experience with bladders, yields get better as the size of the load approaches the capacity of the press.

You sound a little worried about it? If you were working for someone else, you’d be getting a raise :wink:

Great question about the accuracy of the weight and the point that bladder presses give better yields than baskets.

Do you remember how dry the press cake was when you were finished? I usually press so lightly, after we’re done pressing you can still squeeze wine out of the pomace with your fist. I’ve had interns/assistants in the past tell me that I’m wasting wine. I’ve told them, “If you want to keep pressing, you can have the rest.” But my usual yield is 150 to 160 gallons/ton in a bladder–on the lower end for reds and higher end for whole cluster Chard.

But to keep pressing past that point produces more bitterness in the juice, is that right Ed? How do you know when to stop - i.e. can each clone of PN take different pressures?

This. Right here. You can get the proverbial blood from the turnip, but it comes at a high cost. We average around 140 gal/ton on all our reds because we use a 1-ton basket press. You can always get more, but you don’t necessarily want what you get. I think if his 88gal is representative of a true 1000lbs, it’s a bit high but not outside reality.

Maybe another important question would be how long was the red press cycle? What pressure did it top out at and for how long? Not all bladder presses are created equal.

“You can always get more, but you don’t necessarily want what you get.”

I’ll be quoting Jeff Brinkman from now on during harvest. Good one, Jeff. Still need to come visit you.

Eric, I’ve never pressed different clones at different pressures/lengths of time, but it seems that some vintages yield more wine than others, free run and press.

I would expect a vintage like 2008 to yield less juice per ton than average. My first thought is that you were delivered a half ton bin and so far, I’ve never had a half ton bin that had a full 1000 lbs in it.

I plan on releasing a book before harvest this year called “The Quotable Jeff Brinkman”. Unfortunately most of the quotes will be either embarrassing or nonsensical, but there will be a few gems in there. :roll:

Come visit anytime!

One thing more that wasn’t mentioned, and I don’t think (hope!) it was a factor in Brett’s case is whole cluster. You always get less out of the press when you ferment whole cluster.

Thanks all for the info so far, very helpful!

Here are a few more details.

The syrah grapes were delivered directly from the vineyard in a half ton bin and then weighed on a calibrated scale; they were never removed from the bin, but went straight to sorting.

I’m almost positive the weight of the grapes was a half-ton because I thought to myself, wow, how often do does a half bin come in at exactly 1000lbs?

As for the bladder, I don’t recall offhand how long the pressing cycle went nor the exact level(s) of pressure applied. I think we went through about 3-4 cycles in total, but I’ll check my notes to see if I wrote down the specifics.

True, I’m a little anxious. My concern is the point that Eric mentioned about “over pressing” and ending up with bitterness in the juice.

It sounds like that’s not a real concern for me so I feel better now [dance2.gif]

On the bright side you have plenty of wine to top your barrel.

One important question. How does it taste?
[d_sunny.gif]

Geez, guys. Call me nuts, but why throw wine away?

If the options are:
A. Run the press to pressure A, leave the cake wet and compost it.
B. Run the press to pressure B, get a dry cake and blend all the wine together
C. Run the press to pressure A, make a cut, run to pressure B, get a dry cake and sell the cut off in bulk

I’ll be doing C every time?

Am I missing something? That extra 20 gal/T at, say, $20/gallon adds up.

I know, I know, extra costs to run the press, labor, storage and the hassle of selling bulk wine, but if you do 100T, that’s $40K in revenue?

You’re right, that’s all that really matters.

Honestly, I’m really pleased with the results so far and am overdue for another barrel sample.

Nate,

I’d be with you all the way on option C, but it’s amazing how option C can easily turn into option B, 10 to 18 months later, when owners, accountants and CFOs get involved. So just to keep the wine as I want it, I choose A, or if someone is there to take the heavy press wine right away, option C is okay.

I’m impressed by anyone who gets over 150- we usually get 135-140 ish. Although like Ed (gee I can’t believe I get to say I’m like Ed!) I stop pressing pretty darn early- I think the big guys would consider our “press” wine to be damn near free run.

I did have a zin this year came outr at about 118gl/ton- I keep wondering if the grower siphoned a LOT of gas out of his truck before going back to the scale for the tare weight…

Option A reflects a concious effort by the winemaker to always adhere to the best possible practices.

Option B reflects a concious effort by the winemaker to always adhere to the best possible practices.

Option C reflects a concious effort by the winemaker to always adhere to the best possible practices.

That should be the title of your book.

Nate,

I’d be with you all the way on option C, but it’s amazing how option C can easily turn into option B, 10 to 18 months later, when owners, accountants and CFOs get involved. So just to keep the wine as I want it, I choose A, or if someone is there to take the heavy press wine right away, option C is okay

But you’re Ed K? Ed K!! They can’t tell Ed K what to do! :wink:

Seriously, though, I feel you.

I guess it depends on the situation. Everywhere I’ve been in my career, I’d get a funny look if the yields were too low (118 gal/T, John? Fail), but can’t imagine ever being told (and have never been instructed against my will) to blend in an inferior press wine to stretch a volume.

I always feel good inside when the bulk purchase contracts are signed and I feel I’ve done my employer a solid.