I have found a place right near my house that’s within my budget but the problem is that it doesn’t have a floor drain. Its a small space so I can squeegee outside when needed but Im worried the ABC or TTB would nix the place when they do an inspection. Anyone have any experience with this?
Any other TTB or ABC inspection snafus I should watch out for?
I’ve been helping out at a winery here in livermore, no floor drains there. It a real PITA to not have them.
Glad to hear there is a precedent
Not surprised to hear it, but Im not going to get everything on my wishlist and this place is something I can afford
Berry, in our neck of the woods the agency that regulates that type of issue is the Health Department and/or the Water Utilities due to discharge issues. Might be worthwhile to check who is the agency that regulates in your county.
Carlos–You beat me to that answer.
Bruce
Thanks. I’ve already reached out to the county on this issue and I’m waiting to hear back. My challenge with the ABC in particular is that this location will not give me a conditional lease based on ttb and abc approval and that takes months so I don’t want to sign unless I’m sure there are no major ttb or abc gotchas. It’s probably worth it for me to use a compliance person but I was hoping to avoid that.
The Zoning Affidavit , which is part of your ABC application, and which must be certified by the controlling authority (City or County) will be the issue.
They wont sign it unless there is a Use Permit, and getting a use permit brings in every cursed bureaucracy you could imagine.
I just corresponded with the planning department and luckily I don’t need a use permit. I can have a winery in that location “by right” due to zoning
What surrounds you? The regional water quality board would have a very big problem with this. I would not suggest to any government agency that this is the plan.
Ok, thanks. I use a mop then.
What do I tell gov’t people when they ask how I clean fermenters and the crusher/destemer? Every winery I have hung out at takes equipment outside and washes them off with a hose. Do you think it would be a problem if I told them that was the plan?
Not every winery does that, but those that do have a drain or drains outside. Is there an outside drain at the place you’re looking at?
I know of at least two that don’t. Its gravel where they wash things. They are probably breaking the rules.
Its a parking lot that has a drain. I would guess the drain does not go the sewer system.
Welcome to the world of the commercial winery! More people wanting to keep an eye on you than you can shake a stick at.
Discharging process waste (ie any water that remotely even touched juice or wine or something that processed juice or wine) would be what they would deem a “non-stormwater discharge”. A big no-no…at least in my neck of the woods.
I hope anyone washing their equipment outside is doing so over a process waste drain…or that they never get caught doing it. Big-time fines and you’ll be in the paper as someone polluting the bay.
I don’t know what to tell them…that you somehow collect the wastewater and ship it elsewhere?
May or may not come up, but they will look at you awfully funny if someone asks and you say you intend to squeegee it outside to a stormwater drain.
Thanks. I think I’m just going to pay a bit more and get the place with the floor drain. Gives me more room to grow anyway
As most have stated not so much ABC or TTB but local compliance. In this county no floor drain will not let you get the county to sign off on a 02. The guy at the planning office has worked in the wine business so he has a keen eye for what makes a working winery and who just wants to open up a tasting room on residential/ag land with a fake show winery.
I have worked out of a place without a floor drain, don’t do it. Such a mess every time you do anything even something as simple as topping. Very hard to keep clean for producing unfiltered wines.
Is that something not allowed?
Thanks. I’m going to pay more and get the bigger location with the floor drain.
In this county lots of folks have tried to open a tasting room in a barn or house which is illegal if its not a 02 wine producing bonded facility in regards to any zoning but commercial. Many have tried to bond buildings/rooms that are not really used for winemaking with 3 phase power and floor drains.
You have to make 200+ gallons to be commercial any less than that and the feds just classify you as a home winemaker as up to 200 gallons (83.3 cases) is the limit for home wine per household. You may be able to get away with less for a couple years as “weather related” small production but 200+ gallons is what they want to see for a commercial venture.
Just signed the lease for the place with the floor drain. Both exciting and scary at the same time.
Congratulations berry. I hear you on the excitement and scary part.
What are your plans at this point? I remember threads about you trying to get bonded in your garage.