Third Party Shipping - DTC fulfillment

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Dan R
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Joined: June 24th, 2010, 5:52 pm
Location: Philo, CA

Third Party Shipping - DTC fulfillment

#1 Post by Dan R » January 9th, 2019, 12:41 am

Hi all,

In advance of #BD10, we're looking to hone our shipping strategy. Who do you work with / recommend as a third party agent? One that doesn't require a state-specific winery DTC shipping license on file.

Thank in advance!
D Rivin
Princess and the Peasant

Mich@el Ch@ng
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Re: Third Party Shipping - DTC fulfillment

#2 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » January 9th, 2019, 3:19 am

Check out vingo

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Dan R
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Joined: June 24th, 2010, 5:52 pm
Location: Philo, CA

Re: Third Party Shipping - DTC fulfillment

#3 Post by Dan R » January 10th, 2019, 12:11 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
January 9th, 2019, 3:19 am
Check out vingo
Thanks Michael, I will
D Rivin
Princess and the Peasant

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Steve Gower
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Location: Windsor, CA

Re: Third Party Shipping - DTC fulfillment

#4 Post by Steve Gower » January 13th, 2019, 7:45 pm

Well somebody needs the state shipping license if you want it to be compliant. We use use VinoShipper which isn't a shipper but a third party that handles billing, taxes, and licensing. You still use UPS to ship. Not sure if that answers your question. We are fairly new to VinoShipper but pleased so far. And shipping almost everywhere is pretty cool for a tiny winery.
Steve Gower - Crux Winery

BenjaminL
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Re: Third Party Shipping - DTC fulfillment

#5 Post by BenjaminL » March 14th, 2019, 8:50 am

I spoke with a seasoned alcoholic beverage lawyer here in California who said as long as you don't promote in other states, if people are coming to your website to buy wine, they are, in effect, 'coming to California to do business'. By disclosing that the customer has to ensure it is legal for them to import wine into their state, he said the 'legal theory' is that you only need to comply with California state law. That assumes 'Title to, and ownership of, all wine passes from seller to buyer in the State of California'.
The second you go do a wine dinner in another state, or send mailers out out of state, that legal theory falls apart.
B Leachman

GregP
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Re: Third Party Shipping - DTC fulfillment

#6 Post by GregP » March 14th, 2019, 11:14 am

BenjaminL wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 8:50 am
I spoke with a seasoned alcoholic beverage lawyer here in California who said as long as you don't promote in other states, if people are coming to your website to buy wine, they are, in effect, 'coming to California to do business'. By disclosing that the customer has to ensure it is legal for them to import wine into their state, he said the 'legal theory' is that you only need to comply with California state law. That assumes 'Title to, and ownership of, all wine passes from seller to buyer in the State of California'.
The second you go do a wine dinner in another state, or send mailers out out of state, that legal theory falls apart.
Not sure this is correct. "Visitation wise" part, maybe, and still debatable. But one still needs to use UPS/FedEx to make a delivery in most states, and they can refuse if you do not have alc/wine shipping license in that state. They may not even accept the package in the first place.
G r e g P i a t i g o r s k i
I T B - i s k a r a n u w i n e

BenjaminL
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Re: Third Party Shipping - DTC fulfillment

#7 Post by BenjaminL » March 18th, 2019, 9:20 am

GregP wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 11:14 am
BenjaminL wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 8:50 am
I spoke with a seasoned alcoholic beverage lawyer here in California who said as long as you don't promote in other states, if people are coming to your website to buy wine, they are, in effect, 'coming to California to do business'. By disclosing that the customer has to ensure it is legal for them to import wine into their state, he said the 'legal theory' is that you only need to comply with California state law. That assumes 'Title to, and ownership of, all wine passes from seller to buyer in the State of California'.
The second you go do a wine dinner in another state, or send mailers out out of state, that legal theory falls apart.
Not sure this is correct. "Visitation wise" part, maybe, and still debatable. But one still needs to use UPS/FedEx to make a delivery in most states, and they can refuse if you do not have alc/wine shipping license in that state. They may not even accept the package in the first place.
What part don't you think is correct? and is that different than what is legal?
B Leachman

GregP
Posts: 218
Joined: October 15th, 2018, 4:59 pm

Re: Third Party Shipping - DTC fulfillment

#8 Post by GregP » March 18th, 2019, 12:59 pm

Both parts.

Don't care how you nor your friend attorney see the "I placed an order by visiting the web site", you may be right, "may" being a very loose way of facing attorney bills in trying to prove the case in court if some state AG decides to make an example of you. And you yourself point out that its just a "legal THEORY". Have no idea why you advise someone to act on a theory of any sort.

UPS and FedEx would really need to see your filing with states you ship to before they even accept a package. Have no idea what is so hard to understand with the clear cut rules, and have no idea how else to explain any of this to you. A winery sans legal filings with particular state is no different than a private party shipping wine, pretty much illegal.
G r e g P i a t i g o r s k i
I T B - i s k a r a n u w i n e

BenjaminL
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Re: Third Party Shipping - DTC fulfillment

#9 Post by BenjaminL » March 18th, 2019, 4:10 pm

Hey GregP, thanks for taking the time to respond to my question. I agree, the legal 'theory' needs to be proven in court. I do believe it is the new world order, however, as beverage law matures. Try this- google "Title to, and ownership of, all wine passes from seller to buyer in the State of California". You'll get innumerable wine websites using this legal 'theory' to conduct business.
I think you're probably right regarding UPS and FedEx- not sure how 3rd party shippers deal with this (or maybe they don't and let a lot of things slide).
B Leachman

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