Purchase expectations

would love to get some feedback on this … don’t know if the ITB forum is the right place to ask, but figured all the right people are looking here, so here it goes … if the powers that be think this should be Maoved, so be it …


Please fill in the blank:

I am disappointed when someone/group visits my tasting room and doesn’t purchase at least ___ bottles/cases per person.


Sometimes I feel guilty about buying only a couple bottles after an extensive tasting (oftentimes including barrel tasting), but this is usually because I don’t have the money and/or storage space to purchase any more than a couple … should I not avail myself to such generosity if I’m not willing or able to reciprocate with a purchase of a particular amount?


I am truly interested in honest answers to this … don’t pull any punches … and yes, I do realize that joining the mailing list or wine club is obviously the ideal situation, but at what point are you disappointed?

As a customer, I will buy at least one bottle of wine from a tasting room that I visit…unless it is a winery where I already purchase directly from a mailing list and/or am a member of their wine club. Then it would have to be something that was only available at the winery…large format, library, small production, etc.

I think that as wine geeks, we need to support places that we visit even if a tasting fee is charged. I know lots of folks just make the rounds on Hwy 29 and The Silverado Trail and treat it like a pub crawl to get boozed up. If I make the effort to get an appointment and drive up a winding road, I am gonna get something for the effort.

I look forward to reading this thread…

Okay, I guess I’ll jump out there.

First, I want to say that NO ONE should buy our wines if they don’t like them. Period. Not out of guilt, not out of courtesy. Second, we’re primarily a pinot label, in the heart of Oregon Pinot country, so usually it’s clear to people walking in that we do Pinot.

So if I’ve spent time with a group, especially a group that is wine-wise, and they’ve talked about how much they love our pinots, and I’ve opened up bottles especially for them, etc. etc., it does disappoint me if they then buy a bottle of our very-low-margin $15 dollar table wine instead of our Pinot because they are “out of room for pinot”.

Note, I said “disappoint”. It doesn’t make me mad–people have different reasons for passing on a purchase (especially in this economy!), but I will admit to feeling that sad sense of a lost sale. This is definitely balanced out by the positives of hearing that they liked our wines, and usually these types of folks offer excellent end-customer feedback which has its own intrinsic value. I do hope in those circumstances that we’re building future customers, so I imagine it all works out in the end.

When we’re open to the public, I don’t worry about it, because almost everyone buys. [berserker.gif]
When we’re closed to the public, I don’t worry about it, because if anyone calls for an appt. I ask who referred them, if they are looking for something in particular, etc. A winery referral won’t do, it will need to be a referral from a big buyer or a steady retailer. It isn’t necessary to purchase if you have a good referral because I consider it a cost of supporting that customer. And if someone asks to come by and pick up an order, I will always offer to open something.

To be honest, before I started vetting callers, I’ve had the strangest experience with appointment requests. On the days that we are open to the public, almost everyone buys! On the days I have hosted a group or couple by appointment, they almost never buy. It’s as if they just wanted to add a special treatment to some private bucket list. This may sound weird, but I’ve begun to suspect there is a type of wine country visitor that likes to make private appointments just for the ego rush. Is that possible?

On the practical side, our tasting room is also a wine work space, and on the days we are closed (mon-wed) it also becomes a very messy shipping area. So to host an appt. I need to set aside a block of time from work or personal plans, clean up the tasting room, and open fresh bottles. These will be bottles that cannot be poured for anyone else but the appointment group, so if the group doesn’t buy, that’s a waste of product that could have been sold, or at least sampled to 12-20 actual buyers. A winery that is building their brand or is in a remote location will probably be more flexible.

To those looking for by-appointment tastings, I recommend adding some information about yourself to your request … how you learned about the winery, your level of interest, what you would like to try, any referrals or connections, that sort of thing. For public tastings, I wouldn’t worry about it at all. It’s up to the winery to impress or not, and even the best wineries understand that their wines may not please all palates.

I am interested in these thoughts also as I don’t visit as much as I might like to because sometimes I just want to check out the operation, visit with the proprietors and taste a little even if I know I can’t buy. I don’t want to waste anyone’s time either but as a wine geek sometimes the visit is a big deal to me whether I have the wines or not. Because of that sort of avoidance I tend to only visit wineries where there is a personal relationship and/or I am on the mailing list so buying wine that day is not even an issue.

Great post Brian.

If I’m not familiar with the winery to begin with then the whole point of visiting is to discover the wines. If the winery expects me to buy something in exchange for a visit, they should tell me upfront. That way, I won’t bother visiting. [diablo.gif]

If the wines are to my liking, I’ll buy some. If not, I won’t.

On the professional side, what do you winery folks think about situations like this:

We spent four hours (and were served a nice lunch) with an Amarone producer (at THEIR invitation) last year at their estate and, while the wines were very nice, they were overpriced by half (we were never told pricing till the end and we asked several times) and we did not even consider making an order. We had a frank discussion about the market and left on friendly terms.

Sounds to me like they were enjoying your company. [cheers.gif]

Because I am ITB, I am really torn on the whole issue. I want to visit wineries to stay current and establish a relationship so when my clients (see: buyers) come into town, I know the best places to send them. That said, I am ITB, which means I am just above the poverty line and often can’t afford the juice I’d love to take home and call my own. I’d love to support the people making great wine and taking time out of their days to taste me through their line-ups, but right now, I’ve got rent and a dying car that take precedence.

From long, long ago. When finishing up at one tasting room, it was suggested that we ought to try a small family’s operation nearby. “You should try xx, they’re open today.” Sure, we thought. So, a few miles later down a couple of dirt and gravelly roads we arrive. There was a small old house off the road, with a barn around the back. Figuring that must be the tasting room, we drove back and sat there, waiting for signs of life. A lady in the kitchen had seen us arrive and came out to welcome us. (If you’re trying to get out of buying something in this kind of scenario, you’re walking down a dead-end alley.) She lead us into the barn, where she poured us 4 wines - nothing very earth moving. Moving on the uncomfortable moment, we asked water-treading questions like, “What’s the retail on these?” and “are these distributed in Southern California?” Mid $20s was the answer (probably about $35 in today’s $$), and no, the wines didn’t find their way down south. What to do, what to do. Do we make a “courtesy buy” or just ask what we owe, say thank you and slither away. We slithered, but I vowed never to put myself in that predicament again.

As a consumer who likes to visit wineries:

  • If I am on their mailing list I do not feel compelled to buy but often will.
  • If a winery charges a tasting fee which is not taken off a purchase I will not buy (unless I really like the wine)
  • If a winery doesn’t charge a tasting fee or the tasting fee is taken off purchases then I will buy something. If I don’t really like anything I will buy a single bottle of something on the cheaper side. If I find wines I like I’ll buy more (although I have very limited cellar space so many wines I buy are often on the drink earlier side).

yeah, but you show up with beautiful women, so you’re always welcome regardless.

I feel like this is one of those threads where it can be dangerous to participate for a winery because you’re going to piss somebody off.

We don’t do a lot of tastings… I probably average less than one per week. I live down in the East Bay and when I conduct tastings, it’s up in St Helena, so unless I am going up there anyway, it’s a 140+ mile round trip for me for the tasting. Probably 9 out of 10 tastings I schedule are with current customers who sometimes bring their friends along. I certainly don’t expect the current customers to make an extra purchase that day but usually their friends order at that time. The rare, remaining tastings are with regular mailing list members or even with someone who contacted me out of the blue. Like I believe Mary described, I try to sort of “prequalify” these contacts before making the appointment. After all, I am taking several hours out of my day, inviting these folks into my kitchen, and opening several hundred dollars worth of wine. I don’t expect folks to buy wine they don’t like, but I have enough confidence in my wine that if you like Cabernet, you’re going to like mine.

If you can’t afford the wine at the time, I would hope you wouldn’t arrange for the tasting. So here is the pissing off part: If a winery goes to special lengths to entertain you and share with you about their wines, buy something. If you like it, buy a lot. If you don’t, buy a token. If you are not in the position to make a purchase, don’t accept the extra hospitality. There are plenty of tasting rooms open to the public that are staffed and equipped to let you try wines. Offlines and big wine tastings give you a chance to try wines that don’t have a public tasting room. ITB folks who may not be able to personally afford the wines are the exception. Usually wineries want to entertain them as they are hoping to foster a mutually beneficial relationship between the two businesses.

Do you contact a real estate agent and have them make an appointment to escort you to see a house even when you’re not in that market? I’d hope not. You go see the house when it is “Open.” Do you go to the luxury car dealer and arrange for a test drive, even if you aren’t in the market for a new car of this caliber? I’d hope not as well. You wait for the opportunity to steal your friend’s car. [tease.gif]

Not pissed off here Randy. That’s EXACTLY the kind of response I would love to see. Thank you!

I’m just lucky that I have friends that have friends that have Ferraris.

I think this may be one of those questions that doesn’t have a standard answer, depending on a variety of factors.

We have a tasting room for three primary reasons:

  1. Direct sales opportunities: FOB is 50%, Wholesale is 70%, and direct sales are closer to 100% (barring case discounts or specials). My pricing is based on a model that requires a certain level of direct sales. If I don’t get them, I need to raise my prices to accommodate a higher FOB/Wholesale model.

  2. Name Recognition: We are new in the market (our first offering is a 2005), and we are quite small (still under 1000 cases). We need to be available so people can begin to learn about us, pass along our name to their friends, ask for our wines in other retail outlets, etc.

  3. Direct Customer Interaction: It’s very important to me to get that face time with my customers, not through a rep, not through an employee. I want to hear what they like, what they don’t, how my price point works for them, etc. This is extremely valuable information to me for my business.

I’m happy if I meet any of these objectives. I have built in to my model a fairly high sample budget for the first several years. I am assuming I’ll be out there pouring a lot of wine while we establish ourselves in this business, and that these pours often won’t be compensated through either direct sales or tasting fees. That’s just (to me in my model) a cost of doing business.

My feeling is that if someone who is truly interested in tasting my wines takes the time to come and visit me, I’m happy to pour for them without an expectation that they buy, hoping that one of my other objectives is met.

Now, not every business will approach their business the same way, and they may not have built in the same allowances into their budget. So I completely respect the expectations of other merchants out there. I just wanted to share my take on it, from my tiny little place in the universe.

'Coals to Newcastle, John.

About the question;
I have seen winemakers enraged by the fact that they spent time doing a tasting and then no one bought. I never quite understood that - some folks just don’t like your wine enough to buy - 'pretty much their decision if you ask me.
Of course, I have yet to do it from the winery perspective so maybe my tune will change. Although, I’m such a small operation, I not only don’t have a tasting room, I don’t have many samples.
Best, Jim

as a NITB consumer who has had the pleasure of visiting with Randy in St Helena i would suggest picking a pretty day and going up there keesh-in-hands; he’s great, the wines better and the setting glorious indeed.

If I have to pay for the tasting I buy if I like it and don’t like it I don’t buy-period, if I’m paying. If I am already on their mailing list, and buy a fair amount, I don’t buy anything when I’m there. Since I already support their wines I don’t see the need. If I’m on the list and I’m tasting barrel samples or future releases it is to the benefit, if the winery/wine maker is confident in his/her product, I’m only going to buy more. In short, if I’m spending thousands or even several hundred dollars per year with them, I should be worth their time. If I’m not on their list I definately buy.

If its a wine that I sell or buy from a wholesaler I don’t buy either since I can just buy it through the normal channels. If it is large winery and I sell the wine I don’t expect to pay, either.

John