Foils, yes or no? Material: Impact on sales & marketing?

It is clearly an option to not put foils on, as stated here:

My question is, what difference, if any, do you ITBers think it has on sales?

I’d suspect that it depends on your market, but what are your thoughts? Observations?

Who has changed to none?

Anyone change back?

We eased our way to none - first with just a few on the low end. Now we just bottled a top tier wine with a capsule and fancy pants label. Sounds like a couple more will get that treatment out of about 20 wines. Not a decision us lackeys have anything to do with, but it’s in response to what some specific accounts want. Namely, some high end restaurants. Also, since they are age worthy wines, the packaging should reflect the quality and price.

Personally, I think the label is great and accomplishes that. Looks good with and without a capsule.

If you look at a label like Cellars 33 - clean red and black on white, dark glass, no capsule, branded cork - there’s an elegance to that. It would be hard find a capsule that wouldn’t be detrimental to that.

I don’t use them and won’t. Granted I’m only two vintages in, but in that time not a single customer at any level of distribution has even mentioned foil or lack-of. Personally, I like the clean look of the bottles without them. It seems to go well with our label and our philosophy of waste-not.

Cheers,
Bill

Obviously, I’m not ITB, but I imagine that as a winemaker I would be concerned with what customers think. Obviously some customers think that a bottle without a capsule is flawed/lesser in some way (perhaps not entirely dissimilar to the bias against Stelvin closures).

While I prefer no foil, I won’t make a purchasing decision based on whether a wine has a capsule. OTOH, I can see some folks who might go the other way.

Copain has been without foils/etc longer than anyone (that I can think of)…and it hasn’t held them back, including at high end restaurants. Educating folks about what you’re doing and why seems wise, but I don’t see anything preventing wineries from closing a bottle how they prefer.

As a customer, it does not influence my purchasing decision. I buy when I am tasting, and often the capsule has been removed.

I just returned from Oregon/Wine Country, and I think every single bottle I purchased from probably a dozen vendors has a capsule or waxed finish. A couple are screw-caps, and I guess a capsule is a necessity there [try the $18 (at retail shop) McKinlay Pinot Willamette - what a value!]

For myself as a producer, I like the finished look of not seeing bare cork.I use foil and will continue doing so.

I ditched foils with the 2005 vintage. I had one retailer object since then, but that was back with that first vintage and before it became more commonplace. I think you probably do need end-branded corks when you go w/o foils, and I found skinnier necked burg bottles didn’t look so hot w/o foils. For a while, I also went with longer corks, partly because they looked better w/o foils.

tasting room data point:

we (Enkidu Wine) haven’t used foils over the course of 14 vintages, and i’ve only heard positive comments, e.g. “you bottles have a really clean look,” about the package. most folks i speak to daily align on the No-Foil Is Fine side of the discussion.

Thanks for all of your comments.

It sounds like the bottle and cork will matter more if I don’t foil?

I rarely pay close attention to either. In fact, the only time I ever notice the bottle is when it is abnormally heavy.

if you have the ways and means, a branded cork may give the package a bit more “polish”.

I think Stewart’s advice is good - end-printed corks (either branding or vintage) and thicker-neck glass.

As a simple consumer I appreciate any identifying info that can be put on top of the bottle. Even a plain cork often says more about what winery it is, than a generic foil.

have never used them. That said we print along the sides and brand the ends of the cork. I would offer that a bit more thought about the cork/closure you use is warranted if you are going without a foil. I think where we netted out is actually a lot nicer than foil. Folks do comment on the design of our corks.

Consumer here, from back in the days when Champagne was “string-tied”, then came “wire-ties.” Lead foil was on every reputable wine, then aluminum (or some such metal), then plastic, now screw-caps…I don’t give a hoot in Hell about enclosures, so long as the enclosure will keep the wine in top shape for however long it takes to “age” or not age.

Thanks for your input, everyone.

I am probably thinking too hard about this.

It seems like the conclusion is that real wine people don’t care if there is a foil.

For the general market like on a shelf in a store, it might be that if there is no foil, it might be nice to have a nicer cork and/or bottle?

I had been having a problem with my foils going on and it was slowing down my bottling line. That problem seems to be at least partially solved.

I am working on a new brand, and I think I’ll do it with no foil.

I leave foils off my rosé - I love to see the natural fire-branded cork through the glass. Not using a foil gives me an excuse for investing in a better quality cork for a wine not really intended to age beyond two years. I’m old-fashioned and love beautiful, dense/quality corks. Now…wondering if there’s a correlation between this post and the one about the foiler acting up? I do know a winery mechanic who lives in Redding area; he’s the guy who tunes up the bottling line at Krug. He’s renting my guesthouse this month. I don’t know how far you are from Redding, or if he can/would come and help you service your line, but PM me if you want me to give him your phone number or vice-versa.

I will add that one customer, retailer in SoCal, sent me a video of himself explaining that no self-respecting customer would ever buy a bottle of wine that is missing its foil. Funny, but other than his shop, so not true. This wine has grown in sales 20+% year over year for six years now, and frankly for a wine not built to age over two years, a foil seems silly.