Newbie cellar guy

Hi Beserkers

Thanks for allowing me to join your forum. I have been looking for an active wine forum for quite some time now, and happily and pretty randomly stumpled upon WineBerserkers.

I just started to tidy up my cellar so much that I can have some wine stored there. The temperature is pretty steady so I think the cellar is an okay place for some wines.

However, I have a really difficult time finding out what kind of wines to store. Can you say anything in general about what kinds of wines to store? Some say it doesn’t make any sense at all to store wines in price ranges below 20$ a bottle - is that correct? For instance, I just bought 2 bottles of Bourgogne Georges Vasseur 2010 Pinot Noir at a local supermarket for 12$ pr bottle but I guess they won’t improve in time? But which wines actually will? I have been thinking about buying some Bordeaux wines en primeur bot does buying en primeur wines mean that one can expect to get wines that are actually worthwhile to cellar store for some years?

Hope you can give me some general comments - and pardon my newbie level…

Steffen -
Aarhus, Denmark

Hi and welcome Steffen,

Your question is very general and hard to answer not knowing you. What kind of wines do you like? Have you had older wines? Which wines and at what age? Did you like them?

I don’t know about Aarhus, but here in Northern Germany there is very rarely anything in the supermarket worth aging. Even if they are acceptable wines, they are meant for immediate drinking. Supermarket Bourgogne tends to be dire stuff. If you’re lucky it will have good fruit and bright acidity (2010 being a good year), and I think it should probably be enjoyed ASAP.

Do you have some good wine shops in town? Any where you can trust the opinions offered there?

As far as Bx en primeur goes, yes, you can get wonderful age-worthy wines that way. Very generally the prices will be better than buying in the stores later. I’d say that before you jump into that, you should be sure what you like (which Chateaux, or even which appellation).

Good point, Henry. Hmm, what do I like. Hard to answer actually. Pinot Noir, wines from Savigny-lès-Beaune has made good impressions on me. I have also enjoyed some aged Margaux wines. But do you mean more specific, like a certain brand, chateau or?

Steffen, I think there’s certainly no harm in storing wines that perhaps are not terribly age-able in your cellar, but I wouldn’t strive for it. What I presume will happen - as has happened with just about everybody else here - is that you start with the less expensive wines, then you develop a taste for the finer wines, then you begin to buy those wines, and the spaces taken by less expensive wines starts to be taken over by the more expensive wines…and it snowballs from there!

I wouldn’t use price as a determining factor in decided whether to store a wine. Some cheaper wines will age quite well while some $20-$30 bottles may be best consumed young. I’d ask you what you really mean by ‘storing wine.’ Do you mean holding onto the bottles for weeks, months, years? If you aren’t talking about at least a few years, I wouldn’t worry at all about what you put down there. I’d buy what you like and try a range of wines. If you want to try older wines, it might be best to pursue these via auction or retail. But, again, it depends what you mean by older/aged wine…

OK, I’ll bite. Do you use Wine-Searcher? For example, in Savigny I like Simon Bize (among others). Here are some available in Denmark:

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/savigny-l�s-beaune+bize/1/denmark

Prices have gone up, but still under €50.

For Margaux, I have had good value from DuTetre, D’Arsac, Ferriere, and Siran. All age-worthy and not expensive. Try Wine-Searcher for these in Denmark (they are available).

Use the search feature here to find out what WBers have to say. Check out CellarTracker for opinions.

Happy hunting!

+1 on Cellartracker. It will give you drinking windows so you’ll at least have a starting point for deciding if aging will be of benefit to your wines.

Great and very useful comments, everyone.

@Pat Burton: By storing, I mean for some years actually.

@Pat Burton: you mention that if I mean “at least a few years” you wouldn’t worry at all about which wines to put in the cellar, but isn’t it so that some wines don’t age well at all and actually go bad within a few years (or even some months)?

I must not have been clear. Yes, some wines don’t age well and there are plenty of exceptions to any sweeping generalization. That being said, ‘most’ wines can handle 2-3 years in the cellar without too much concern (assuming new releases and avoiding rose wines, maybe some cheaper whites). If you are planning to hold the wines for closer to five or more years, I’d argue it matters far more which wines you are going to stick in the cellar.

Ok, thanks. Pat. Yes, we are probably talking abut storage for at least 2-3 years but other wines perhaps more like 5-8 years

As a retailer, I get asked this a fair bit. Since you live in Europe I won’t address specific brands, but I can give some general impressions.

First, invest a little time into finding a good wine shop that can give you hands on advice. If they are doing their job, they will be the ones to uncover the gems that will be worth cellaring. Talk to them, let them make recommendations, and if you like what they pick it will be well worth building the relationship to get wines that make you happy years down the road.

Bordeaux is still one of the great values in the world when it comes to cellaring wines, as long as you don’t get too hung up on specific producers. There is plenty of good juice out there in the really good vintages, and in weaker vintages you can be patient and wait for slow moving old stock to drop in price. Try a bottle of anything you’re interested in, play with it over 2-3 days without preserving it in the bottle, and see how it evolves. That’s usually a fair sign of its aging potential over 8-10.

I’ve been a big fan of the Rhone/Languedoc/Roussillon because there have been so many really good vintages recently and there are literally hundreds of good labels out there if you like the style. Lots of Village designated Rhones, Gigondas, etc in that $20 range that can easily evolve 5-7+years. If you can find a cuvee that has higher % of Syrah and/or Mourvedre, those have better acidity than Grenache and can have a better potential to live longer; not an absolute, mind you, but a fair rule of thumb.

Lots of stuff from Italy, as the major growing regions have had mostly strong vintages over the last 3-5 years. Have found a lot more really good Nebbiolo Langhe wines that can do a beautiful job with a decade in the cellar, and much better quality Rosso Toscanas and Montepulciano d’Abruzzi. Even down south you can get some very reasonable Aglianico that can shock you with their ageworthiness. Channeling my inner Roberto, Teroldego from Trentino and Gaglioppo from Calabria can be surprises as well.

Good Rioja and Ribera del Duero can cellar very well, but the regions can be a bit of a minefield as there are a lot more ‘drink now’ styled wines than there used to. All the more reason to taste a few and get a good relationship going with a retailer that can help guide you and your choices.

Hope that helps. Let me know if I need to add to any of this.

@Matthew: great input, thanks. What do you mean by suggesting to play with the wine 2-3 days but not having it in the bottle?

Sorry, that was clearer in my head than it was in real words. I meant that with a young wine you should leave it in the bottle without using any of the preserving gasses or vacuum pumps, allowing the wine to oxidize slowly and naturally. It’s not an exact correlation to the aging process, but if the wine evolves well over the course of 2-3 days like this, it’s usually a good sign that the wine will do well in the cellar.