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LisaMTaylor
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Wine Collection

#1 Post by LisaMTaylor » February 9th, 2017, 7:22 pm

My uncle passed away leaving behind a great collection of wines from his travels as an opera singer all over the world. I was advised to seek some help from this site or shall I say guidance. I am looking to sell his entire collection and need to know how to go about doing this. There are 240 bottles red and whites mixed. I made a list the best I know how to do and am hoping there is help here.

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Chuck Miller
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#2 Post by Chuck Miller » February 9th, 2017, 9:31 pm

Lisa, welcome to the board. You may get lots of advice, including people interested in 'cherry picking' from the list. Since you want to sell the entire collection, you would probably be best off sending the list to several auction houses who can then give you estimates. This assumes you are the executor of the estate, or inherited the wine.
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Ian Sutton
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#3 Post by Ian Sutton » February 10th, 2017, 4:03 pm

Hi Lisa
Welcome indeed. Never the best of circumstance, but I hope the site is useful / interesting.

There is a useful free resource that will help alert you to bottles that may be valuable to sell vs. bottles that are probably just best shared with family / friends as a at to remember your uncle. Do save at least some of them to do this, as they seem to be very deeply appreciated by those invited to share the bottle.

Anyway, Wine-Searcher is the resource.

They make their money by only listing certain sellers, but will always return a selling price for the wine / vintage - just not always the cheapest. Subscription fees open up all the sellers.

This is free version is useful to you because it will flag up relative value. It's worth bearing in mind that what you see listed is not what you'd get for selling it, because:
- As mentioned, they may only list one or two sellers, others may be asking much less
- What people are asking for, isn't necessarily what it will sell for.
- Selling wine usually loses you a big cut of what the buyer pays, either in auction fees on buyer and seller, or for a broker to take their cut
- Merchants will be expected to take returns for faulty wine, so factor this into their prices

Note also that some prices will be listed with or without sales tax applied (it's a frustrating inconsistency)

Overall, don't be surprised if you receive half or less of what the price is listed as.

If you can't find the wine/vintage in your country, use the dropdown to select all countries. It's not ideal, but can be a way to get a price for a rarer / lesser seen wine.

_____________________________________________________

Anyway, that's Wine Searcher covered. The question most buyers should ask is around 'provenance'. By this it's how was the wine stored (in a cool underground cellar, wine fridge, or elsewhere), do you still have the evidence of purchase to help reassure buyers. The latter isn't expected or indeed likely, but if you do have it, it can be useful (see Rudy Kurniawan thread for why buyers of wine get twitchy).

It will be a lot of work checking prices, but 2-3 of you could do so pretty quickly using different pc / laptops.

______________________________________________

Selling
The US has rules I don't profess to understand, however options include:
- Auction houses (often the easy option, with clear margins that may be too high, but you'll not expect a $200 wine to go for $20 at a reputable auction house). They do like cherry picking, so may take half and leave you the rest... or bundle cheaper wines into large mixed lots. There are online as well as traditional auction houses
- Fine Wine brokers - even more keen on cherry picking than the auction houses. They typically take a smaller cut than the auction houses
- Wine shops. Certain wine shops play the secondary (re-sale) wine market, so would be interested in buying wine from you. Again there might be quite a bit of cherry picking going on. With this option, you really need to do your homework on Wine Searcher, as some will try on a low ball offer - you may need to negotiate with some knowledge.
- specialist wine traders. Often the characters loitering at the back of wine auctions, a friend used to do this, and would buy the odd cellar in addition to his usual trading. I can only speak for him, but he used to get some purchases on the basis that he didn't cherry pick, and would clear everything, making it much simpler for the family/estate. If you're prepared to put the effort in yourself, I don't think this is a great option, as often such traders will merely package it up for auction themselves, so their cut comes out of your proceeds. However if it's too much effort, I'd say they are a great option, though possibly hard to find - he seemed to get most of such business through word of mouth.
- Commerce corner on this site. It saves a lot of money by cutting out all the fees. However it does require effort to post on the site with the price you're looking for, managing the responses, packing and shipping the wines (again those arcane shipping laws don't help). Similar to the wine merchants, get enough of a feel for prices to articulate a reasonable price - they will expect you to set an asking price, and also say whether delivery is at cost or you include that in the price (a rough guideline on a similar UK site is sellers typically ask for LOWEST available WS price, less 30%. So if using the free wine searcher, you may be looking at that price less 40%. However this is just a ballpark. Some would fly away at 20% below the WS price, whilst some might never sell at 50% below it. Wine enthusiasts are fickle bunch!

Hopefully others who have actually used the commerce corner forum, will add additional advice.

Good luck, whichever option you choose.

regards
Ian
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Glenn L e v i n e
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#4 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » February 10th, 2017, 6:39 pm

At 240 bottles in total there are certainly individuals here who could afford and take the entire parcel en masse.
"Never lose sight of the fact that it is just fermented grape juice" - a winemaker and negotiant in Napa Valley, CA

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#5 Post by Chuck Miller » February 10th, 2017, 9:24 pm

Glenn, that assumes someone has an interest in all the bottles. We know nothing about the inventory, provenance, etc. In my experience, it is extremely rare, even with higher end wines, that someone has an interest in the complete cellar. Affording it isn't the problem.
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Steve Slatcher
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#6 Post by Steve Slatcher » February 12th, 2017, 2:39 am

If your list is in electronic form, why not post it here? I am sure that we could give you a quick and rough idea how much the bottles are worth, which will help you decide what to do with them.

Unless they are very valuable, you might well find the most sensible solution is simply to toast your uncle and drink them.

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#7 Post by LisaMTaylor » February 20th, 2017, 2:54 pm

well i am the executor/administrator to his estate but these are what i chose to take as personal items. My uncle led a secluded life after his partner passed and all of the bottles were stored in a dark room in his apartment on racks and they are now in my cellar on the racks in a closed room. Yes some have sediment in them and some are perfect condition. None of the bottles are leaking and the caps/corks are intact. But I am not a wine drinker so I was told about this site and figured I would try it out.
there are 4 lists and one list is actually an offer i received and just ave not decided yet as to if i should or not.Making a decision is hard because I am not sure the value.

This list is the offer I received:
Vintage Vineyard Size Qty Notes Offer Total
1987 Carruades De Lafite Rothschild 750ml 1 $99.00 $99.00
1982 Chateau Beausejour 750ml 1 $35.00 $35.00
1983 Chateau Brane-Cantenac Margaux 750ml 1 $42.00 $42.00
1982 Chateau Gazin 750ml 1 $74.00 $74.00
1995 Chateau Gloria St Julien 750ml 2 $25.00 $50.00
1982 Chateau Gruaud Larose Cordier 750ml 1 $140.00 $140.00
1983 Chateau La Fleur De Gay 750ml 1 $49.00 $49.00
1985 Chateau Lynch-Bages 750ml 1 $80.00 $80.00
1987 Chateau Lynch-Bages 750ml 1 $63.00 $63.00
1983 Chateau Margaux Pavillion Rouge 750ml 1 $90.00 $90.00
1999 Grand Vin De Bourgogne 1er Cru-Les 750ml 1
1979 Les Fort De Latour 750ml 1 $58.00 $58.00
1981 Les Fort De Latour 750ml 2 $59.00 $118.00
1982 Les Fort De Latour 750ml 1 $125.00 $125.00
1983 Les Fort De Latour 750ml 1 $100.00 $100.00
1980 Moulin Des Carruades 750ml 1 $94.00 $94.00
1981 Moulin Des Carruades 750ml 1 $60.00 $60.00
1982 Moulin Des Carruades 750ml 1 $125.00 $125.00
1982 Recolte Grand Vin D'Leoville 750ml 1 $180.00 $180.00 Priced as Leoville Las Cases

21 $1,582.00

Vintage Vineyard Size Qty Notes Offer Total
1981 Les Forts De Latour Pauillac 750 2 $59.00 $118.00
1982 Les Forts De Latour Pauillac 750 3 $125.00 $375.00
1983 Les Forts De Latour Pauillac 750 1 $100.00 $100.00
1989 Chateau Sociande Mallet 750 1 $28.00 $28.00
1985 Chateau Sociande Mallet 750 9 $35.00 $315.00
1990 Chateau Sociande Mallet 750 1 $54.00 $54.00
1980 Ridge Monte Bello 750 1 $70.00 $70.00
1982 Chateau Lynch Bages Grand Vin 750 1 $130.00 $130.00
1984 Chateau La Lagune 750 1 $34.00 $34.00
1981 Pavillon Rouge Du Chateau Margaux 750 1 $44.00 $44.00

21 $1,268.00


this is the Champagnes he had
La Grande Folie Brut 1 750ml
Moet & Chandon White Star 1 750ml
A. Cahrbaut et Fils Demisec 1 750ml
Charbaut Freres Blanc De Blancs 1986 1 750ml
Charbaut Freres Blanc De Blancs 1 375ml

this is the reds

Les Forts De Latour Pauillac 1981 2 750ml
Les Forts De Latour Pauillac 1982 3
Les Forts De Latour Pauillac 1983 1
Chateau LaTour St. Bonnet 1979 1
Chateau LaTour St. Bonnet 1982 1
Chateau LaTour St. Bonnet 1989 2
Chateau LaTour St. Bonnet 1990 1
Chateau LaTour St. Bonnet 1994 2
Chateau LaTour St. Bonnet 1995 8
Chateau LaTour St. Bonnet 1996 5
Chateau LaTour St. Bonnet 1998 1
Chateau LaTour St. Bonnet 2000 3
Chateau LaTour St. Bonnet 1986 1
Chateau Sociande Mallet 1989 1
Chateau Sociande Mallet 1985 9
Chateau Sociande Mallet 1979 1
Chateau Sociande Mallet 1990 1
Colosi Sicilia 1999 1
Colosi Sicilia 2002 2
Chateau Lafon Rochet 1981 1
Duckhorn Vineyars Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon 1982 1
Brolio Vin Santo 1980 1 A lot of sediment
Chateau Petit Village Pomerol 1983 1
Chateau De Sales Pomerol 1976 1
Casa Castillo Jumilla Monastrell 2000 1
Grand Vin De Bourgogne 1999 1
Gustave Niebaum Commerorative Napa Valley Black Label Claret 1993 1
Chateau Cantemerle 1979 1
Chateau Gundet Le Franc Grace Diru St. Emilion Grand Cru 1979 1
Chateau Bellegrave Pomerol 1982 1
Markham Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon 1979 1
Ridge Santa Cruz Mtns Monte Bello Cabernet Sauvignon 1980 1
Ridge California York Creek Cabernet Sauvignon 1977 1
Marques De Riscal Rioja 2003 2
Monte Real Rioja Reserva 2000 1
Cordier Chateau Lafaurie Peyraquey 1985 1
Azienda Agricola Grasso Barolo Monforte D'Alba Italia 1982 1
Weinert Carrascal 2005 1
Markham Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon 1982 1
Aqua De Piedra Gran Reserva Malbec 2009 1 Signed by Jimena Lopez
Clos De Los Piete by Michael Rolland #7 inside Star Argentina 2007 1
Clos Du Clocher Pomerol 1983 1
Cartlidge & Browne Pinot Noir 1996 1
Cartlidge & Browne Cabernet Sauvignon 2004 1
Chateau Lascombes Grand Cru Classe Margaux 1975 1
Domaine Tempier Bandol 1985 1
Chateau Du Gavin Canon Fronsac Bordeaux 2000 1
Cavas De Weinert Gran Vino 1997 1
Graffigna Malbec 1999 1
Chakana Malbec Reserve 2006 1
Cuvee Du Belvedere Le Bouneou Chateauneuf Du Pape 1986 1
Les Cailloux Chateauneuf Du Pape 1978 1
Vincent Arroyo Winery Napa Valley Petite Syrah 1997 1
Vincent Arroyo Winery Napa Valley Blue Portuguese 1995 1
Vincent Arroyo Winery Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon 1990 1
Vina Alarba 2000 1
Rosso Italy Lost Vineyards 1
Vino De Mesa Rose Portugal Lost Vineyards 1
Grand Cru Classe Pauillac Chateau Lynch Bages Grand Vin 1982 1
Chateau La Lagune Haut Medoc 1984 1
Pavillon Rouge Du Chateau Margaux 1981 1
Chateau De Sales Pomerol 1983 1
Chateau De Fieuzal 1975 1 Label Lifting at base of neck

these are the whites
Cru Les Folatiers Puligny Montrachet 1986 white France 1 750ml
Cru Les Folatiers Puligny Montrachet 1987 white France 2 750ml
Les Champs Gain Puligny Montrachet Les Champs Gain 1986 France 2 750ml
Meursault Leroy 1983 white France 1
Meursault Genevrieres 1982 white France 1 750ml
Vaillons Moreau-Nadet Chablis 1998 white France 1 750ml
Leroy Auxey-Duresses 1983 white France 1 750ml
Premier Cru Les Vaillons Chablis 1998 white France 1 750ml
Grgich Hills Chardonnay 1985 white California Napa 1 750ml
Alsace Tokay Pinot Gris 1995 white 1 750ml
Hugel Gentil Hugel 1997 white 1 750ml
Lost Vineyards Chardonnay white 1 750ml
Laboure-Roi St. Armond Macon Blanc Village Chardonnay 2001 white France 1 750ml
Folonari Pinot Grigio 2004 white Italy 1 750ml
Vin D'Alsace Altenberg De Bergheim Lorentz Reisling 1995 white France 2 750ml
Cuvee Prestige Reisling 2001 white 1 750ml
Alsace Crustaces Dopff & Irion white 1 750ml
Jean Baptiste Adam Reserve Reisling 2004 white France 1 750ml
Gentil Alsace Pfaff 2008 white 1 750ml
Willm Vin D'Alsace 2004 white 1 750ml
Willm Vin D'Alsace 1999 white 1 750ml Willm Vin D'Alsace Pinot Blanc 2004 white 1 750ml Vin D'Alsace Pinot Blanc 1998 white 1 750ml
Lost Vineyards Imported Spanish Sangria White Wine white 1 750ml
Mason Louis La Tour Bataro Montradut Appelation Controlee 1986 white 1 750ml
Chateau Pouilly Fuisse 1986 white 1 750ml
Cru La Romanee Chassagne-montrachet Grand Vin De Bourgogne 1983 1 750ml
Vin D'Alsace Willm Pinot Gris 1997 white 1 750ml
Vin D'Alsace Willm Pinot Blanc 2004 white 1
Vin D'Alsace Willm Gentil 2002 white 1 750ml
Vin D'Alsace Willm Gentil 2000 white 1 750ml
Lorenz Reisling 1995 white 2 750ml
Recolte Premier Cru Vaugir Aut Chablis 2000 white 1 750ml
Meursault-Goutle D'Or 1985 white 1 750ml
Le Mont Demi-Sec Vouray 1985 white 1 750ml
Les Verges Muscadet Sevre et Main 1985 white 1 750ml
Vin D'Alsace Daniel Ruff 1999 white 1 750ml
Alsace Gewurztraminer Blanck 2002 white 2 750ml
Alsace Gewurztraminer pinot blanc 2004 white 1 750ml
Henri Bourgeois Pouilly- Fume 2000 white 1 750ml
Casa De Campo Chardonnay 2003 white 1 750ml
La Brasserie French Country Wine white 1 750ml
Chereau Carre Chateau De Chassdoir 2002 white 1 750ml
Vouvray Menmousseau 2001 white 1 750ml
Domain La Prevote Sauvignon 2000 white 1 750ml
Rancho Zabaco Dancing Bull Sauvignon Blanc 2002 California 1 750ml
Lost Vineyards Chardonnay white Argentina 1 750ml
Vignes De Nicole Les Domaines Paul Mas 1998 white 1 750ml
Bergheim Vendages Tardives Marcel Deiss 1994 white 1 750ml
Chassagne-montrachet Premier Cru Ler Morgeots 1987 white 1 750ml
Premier Cru Montu De Tonnerre Chablis 2000 white 1 750ml
Leroy Cote De Nuits Villages 1972 white 1 750ml
Chassagne-Montracher Clos Pitois 1983 white 1 750ml
Meursault 1st Cru Clos Des Poruzots Louis Pierre & Fils 1985 white 1 750ml
Meursault Les Narraux 1985 white 1 750ml
1er Cru Fourchame Chablis 1999 white 1 750ml
Saint Aubin 1st Cru 1983 white 1 750ml
Vendage Tardive Domaines Schlumberger Pinot Gris 1996 white 1 750ml
Val De Loire Chateau Touraine Sauvignon Blanc 2002 white 1
Roux Pere & Fils Macon Villages 2002 white 1
Sanford Central Coast Sauvignon Blanc 2001 white 1
Alsace La Cuvee Leon Beyer 1996 white 1
La Chasse Du Pape Prestige Cotes Du Rhone Bouteille #05948 Series D 2001 1
Catena Mendoza Chardonnay 2004 white 1
Vin D'Alsace Kirrenburg Tokay Pinto Gris 2000 white 1

Domune De Pouy Vin De Pays Des Cotes Des Gascogne 1


like i stated before my uncle traveled all over and collected some great things other than just the wine. I just need to know if it is worth it for me to do this. I have had a friend of mine tastes some of the reds from 79,85,90,2000 and he said it was the best wine he has tasted so I know there are good ones. I did the lists the best way i knew how.

thanks

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#8 Post by Chuck Miller » February 20th, 2017, 8:30 pm

Lisa, thanks for getting back to us. Your description of the storage conditions (aka provenance) leaves something to be desired, but sounds 'average'. A dark room is important, but far and away the most important factor is a relatively constant and cool temperature. Room temperature is not ideal, especially over many years.

You mention that 'some bottles have sediment and others are perfect'. Sediment (in a red wine) is normal. Not to worry.

Your prices seem to be reasonable, even in some cases on the low side. For example, the 1982 Les Forts de Latour currently sells at auction for around $220 for a hammer price (before both you and the buyer pay commissions). You might net $175 after commissions, insurance and shipping costs. The offer for $125 would be low if the wine had been in a cool cellar for the past 30 years, but might be fine given actual storage conditions.

The biggest issue with your list is that for many of the red and white burgundies, your list doesn't include the most important detail, namely the producer's name. Even some of those that do, such as Leroy (one of the top producers in all of Burgundy) your list doesn't say if it is Domaine Leroy (the estate wines), or Maison Leroy (wines made as a negociant using non-estate, i.e. purchased, grapes). The difference in value can be significant.

Last thing I might suggest is that you may want to let us know the general area/city where the wines are. The reason for that is someone in the area, either an individual or possibly an auction house, might be willing to to a quick inspection of some of the wines and make some recommendations after seeing them. You certainly have some wines with commercial value.
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Ian Sutton
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#9 Post by Ian Sutton » February 21st, 2017, 4:29 am

Hi Lisa
Yes certainly value in there. There are some wines in the secondary red/white lists that won't attract much of an offer, but that does give you the chance to retain some (still interesting) bottles to share with friends / family. A few may be a little old / tired, but less so than is often the case in such circumstances. As expected, many buyers will wish to cherry pick the wines of high value, the lower value wines being more effort / less profit to re-sell than they would wish.

Worth comparing those offers already received with Wine Searcher and judge whether you think the overall offer is fair. If wishing to sell en-bloc, then still worth comparing, as if a few look like lowball offers then you can pushback on the overall offer by quoting those.

My gut feel, without checking myself, is that the offers look low, but not an attempt at theft and not at all surprising. However checking on wine searcher is important for you to get a more up to date and informed opinion.

regards
Ian
Normal for Norfolk

LisaMTaylor
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#10 Post by LisaMTaylor » February 22nd, 2017, 4:15 am

I live in Walden NY which is basically the Hudson valley.
the prices on the list were not my prices that was an offer i received from a company in NY

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#11 Post by cjsavino » February 22nd, 2017, 5:24 pm

Ian Dorin with heritage auctions in NYC may be able to help, he posts here
Chris
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