Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

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Doug Besterman
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Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#1 Post by Doug Besterman » March 22nd, 2015, 9:27 am

Apologies if I'm asking a question that has been asked and answered before - still getting the hang of searching for earlier threads on the boards...

I've been wondering lately about the upside and downsides of ordering wine online (as opposed to purchasing locally). Some of the wine sites offer a curated wine shopping experience - and I've been interested in trying some of the wines they offer in their newsletters and email blasts. While I'm tempted to buy the wines recommended by a well-known wine merchant or a panel of wine buyers, wine sales are a business - and I'm skeptical about being coerced into spending my wine dollars helping someone unload some of their slower-moving inventory!

Curious what your experiences have been? Do most of you buy locally - or do you shop online as well? Is the added cost (and risk) of shipping worth the convenience (and access to wines less readily available in your area)?

On a related topic...what about wines offered by smaller importers who sell directly to consumers? We won a wine-tasting in an auction few months back and had a great in-home tasting with some friends - and predictably, we all bought some wine. Naturally, these folks are trying to sell the wines they import - how do these types of importers compare to a reputable wine store in terms of quality and variety? Can you pick up real gems from them...or are they just unloading wines they got at a good price to consumers who don't know any better (we liked the wine, by the way)? Would love your thoughts...

Finally...would love to know where my fellow LA members buy their wine locally, whether from importers or wine shops.

Regards,

Doug Besterman
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Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#2 Post by NED VALOIS » March 22nd, 2015, 9:35 am

At the Vineyard (mailing lists for hard to get) & on line & auctions are the best for me, period .

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Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#3 Post by RyanC » March 22nd, 2015, 9:42 am

If I lived in NY, LA, or SF, I'd buy a lot of wine locally. Maybe Chicago or DC as well. But by searching around (e.g., with wine-searcher pro), I can usually find the best pricing and availability online, and the vast majority (almost all) of the wine I purchase is from retailers online (aside form winery direct purchases). If you stick to good shipping windows, it's a painless process. If you're looking more for someone to educate you about wines and suggest wines as well as sell them to you, it's hard to beat the in-store experience. But the problem is, you need the right store. Most people are clueless. Certain online retailers fulfill that function as well. For example, by reading emails from Crush, Chambers Street, and (to a lesser extent) Envoyer, you can learn a fair bit about interesting wines and regions.
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Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#4 Post by Kevin Lancelotta » March 22nd, 2015, 12:45 pm

I have purchased from at least 10 different online retailers. If you count retail brick-and-mortar shops that post to Wine-searcher, that number probably doubles.

I have never had any problem with "online" purchases at all. Most of the vendors offer great customer service. Even if they didn't, I would feel protected by my credit card company.

As the previous poster mentioned, online purchases provide a way to easily find otherwise difficult to source bottles at the best prices in the country

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#5 Post by Jud Reis » March 23rd, 2015, 1:58 pm

Doug - it is a good question. I would personally only use online resources for wines I had already tried and knew I wanted to purchase. Buying wines based on what the retailer wants to offer is more of a crap shoot and depending on the retailer you may well end up with wines they are trying to offload. If you are still in the process of figuring out what wines you want to buy, nothing is more important than doing as much tasting as you can to see what you like, and finding a local retailer that hosts a lot of tastings and doing business with them is the best way to get started.

if you do know what wines you want to buy, a search of the board here will give you some good info from the members about their experience with most of the big online purveyors, as there is a thread on most major retailers.

Good luck with the exploration - it is a fun journey!

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Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#6 Post by Doug Besterman » March 23rd, 2015, 2:30 pm

Just popped on to say thanks for the responses. Jud, I'm on the mailing lists for a few local LA vendors who host wine tastings, and I know that will be a good way to broaden my horizons. I've already done a bit of online ordering, and I'm not particularly concerned about fraud (any more than I am from any other retailer) - more concerned about whether I'm getting good advice from the online vendors in terms of what to buy - caveat emptor, as they say. I'll look into the threads about the major retailers - will be a good way to get some basic info - many thanks again.
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Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#7 Post by Dennis Kanagie » April 4th, 2015, 9:47 pm

There are some very good resellers / consignment sites on the internet. Hart Davis Hart, Benchmark Wine Group, and K&L have all been very good when I've ordered from them. I did get a corked bottle from BWG but they took care of me on the next purchase.

If you shop locally, try to talk to the wine manager of the store(s) you go to. In a short time you'll find out who gives you good recommendations and who doesn't. Even though I pass at least 2 dozen liquor stores on the way, I drive 20 minutes to Wine Works because Charlie has always done me solid.
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#8 Post by Chris Presutti » April 5th, 2015, 6:27 am

Dennis Kanagie wrote:Even though I pass at least 2 dozen liquor stores on the way, I drive 20 minutes to Wine Works because Charlie has always done me solid.
Wineworks is my favorite brick and mortar wine store too. I was there yesterday, in fact. And I agree that Charlie Beatty is a good guy. I got to know him when he was across Route 70 at Canal's Bottlestop for many years.

To the OP, I haven't bought a bottle of wine at retail in the state of Ohio in years due to their archaic three tier system and their "state minimum pricing" b.s. With the exception of occasional bottle or three from Wineworks, all of my domestic wine purchases are through direct mailers and everything else is from on-line purchases such as Wine Library, Vinopolis et al. Wine Searcher Pro is a gem. My favorite source in recent years has been Rob Panzer's Down to Earth.

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#9 Post by Robert B. » April 20th, 2015, 6:25 am

I do not purchase via auction. I purchase almost 100% online from either the winemaker or reputable online wine merchants from all over the country and overseas.
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#10 Post by Drew Goin » April 28th, 2015, 6:09 am

I buy locally (NW Louisiana) and direct from the winery websites. I used K&L once recently, and they were fast and reliable.

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#11 Post by C Chen » April 28th, 2015, 9:41 pm

K&L has some pretty crazy prices. Never bought from them, but nice to see someone say they're fast and reliable.
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#12 Post by Dennis Kanagie » April 29th, 2015, 7:44 am

Curtis C wrote:K&L has some pretty crazy prices.
If it's an out of stock wine, I think there might be some games going on with lowering the price to make them appear dirt cheap when an internet search is done. It is possible to pay to up your placement in a Google search. Other than that, I buy from them relatively often because their prices are decent but not crazy low.
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Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#13 Post by P_WythesJr » April 30th, 2015, 6:44 am

I was very apprehensive about buying wine online, but now it's how I buy most of my wine. Except for several mailing lists where I buy directly from the winery, I find buying online is a great way to get those bottles I can't get at a local retailer.

I highly recommend Wine Searcher Pro. I don't know of any other way to get the best price for any given wine.

And most importantly, the wine I've ordered online has been in excellent shape. At first my concern was that some retailer somewhere else in the country wouldn't care if they sent me a skunked or otherwise flawed bottle. With Wine Searcher, these guys now have a national presence and therefore a national reputation to maintain. My experience is that retailers are doing an excellent job of selling wines in great shape.
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Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#14 Post by C Chen » April 30th, 2015, 7:16 am

Dennis Kanagie wrote:
Curtis C wrote:K&L has some pretty crazy prices.
If it's an out of stock wine, I think there might be some games going on with lowering the price to make them appear dirt cheap when an internet search is done. It is possible to pay to up your placement in a Google search. Other than that, I buy from them relatively often because their prices are decent but not crazy low.
That makes more sense.
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Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#15 Post by Brian Tuite » May 4th, 2015, 6:31 am

Doug,

Retailers are in the business to sell wine. Look at LastBottle. Every wine they sell is a "knockout", "gem", "fantastic", "incredible", "highly recommended", "don't miss out", "going to sell out fast", "don't hesitate" wine. The marketing hype needs to be taken with a few grains of salt. You need to know what you like stylistically, varietally and purchase basepd on that rather than someone else's hype.

I think the biggest thing is to not feel the need to build a cellar too quickly or you end up with a bunch of duds and/or wines who, by the time you open them, are not in your wheelhouse any longer. That's where buying back vintages at auction or retail from reputable sources comes in handy. Patience is rewarded.
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#16 Post by Siun o'Connell » May 4th, 2015, 7:36 am

Don't underestimate as well how many sources you'll learn about just by reading here. I am quite new to buying wine beyond picking up bottles at the local shop but from WB discussions, I've discovered a number of wines I never would find locally - Matthiasson Vermouth and Rose, Bill Hooper's new Paetra Riesling, so many during the Wine Beserkers sale this year. I now only go to my local shop for tastings.

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#17 Post by steve hans » June 1st, 2015, 5:15 pm

jacksreacher10 wrote:Yes, K&L have very high prices of wine flavors this is also one of the reason why, I started ordering wine online from jacksny.
So, I checked out Jack's Sliders and Sushi's wine menu out of curiosity. They have a total of 12 bottles on their menu. Nothing interesting. And, everything is substantially more expensive than K&L (e.g. Hess Chardonnay for $40, which is 4x retail).

What am I missing? Are you the owner or connected to the business?

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#18 Post by scamhi » June 1st, 2015, 7:25 pm

I purchase mostly based on pricing. As a result I buy from all over. I like my local stores Flatiron , Chambers Street and Crush but when I am searching for a bottle-producer and or vintage wine-searcherpro fills an important need.

or and ignore jacksreacher10 he is a spamster for Jacks Sushi and Sliders and the wineberserkers moderators have done nothing about him.
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#19 Post by Cris Drugan » July 20th, 2015, 12:03 pm

I too have bought online for years...K&L and JJ Buckley. No problems with either. JJ Buckley will hold your purchase free for 6 months if it's summer or winter. That is a nice option when you live in the Northeast like me.

Smaller importers selling direct to consumer...They may have good wines, but they seem to be very limited not only in quantity but from vintage to vintage. They'll have a wine one year and not the next. I say if you find something they like buy a few bottles and don't count on seeing it again.
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#20 Post by kiaraajohnson » July 21st, 2015, 9:45 pm

Online wine purchasing is good. I will recommend to purchase red wine.

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#21 Post by Drew Goin » July 22nd, 2015, 10:49 am

Where I live, there are two good wine shops, five or six with grocery store-type wines, and regular liquor stores.

I am often looking for wines that are not available around here, and K&L, WineBid, Benchmark, and direct orders from wineries are my go-to online sources.

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#22 Post by Chris Sihler » July 30th, 2015, 11:49 am

I do 90% of my purchasing online, though honestly it is mainly through mailing lists. The problem with local purchasing is that you are extremely limited by the inventory they stock. Only problem I have with online is that I can't receive shipments in the summer and sometimes winter if it is really cold en route.

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#23 Post by Doug Besterman » July 31st, 2015, 8:51 pm

Haven't checked back here for a while - many thanks to all who have posted with advice.

In the four months since I began this thread, I have gotten familiar with a number of online outlets (including K&L, BWG, Zachy's), some list-based resellers (Garagiste), direct purchasing from vineyards via mailing lists (Carlisle, Qupé, Bedrock) - and I've even worked directly with an importer who posts here on WB. I've been buying in small quantities - mainly to taste - and only holding a bottle or two of some things I like to see how they develop in a year or so. I've gone deepest into the 2010 Brunellos - but deep for me is only about a case...total. I haven't been doing this long enough to have a long range goal - still discovering what I like.

Wine House in West LA has become my local store - they're close to me, parking is easy, and the place doesn't feel overwhelming. I've had some nice advice from the salespeople, who've turned me on to some southern Rhônes and a couple of starter Burgundies that I wouldn't have found on my own.

Thanks again for all the thoughts and advice -

Doug
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#24 Post by Michael Davidson » July 31st, 2015, 8:55 pm

Dennis Kanagie wrote:It is possible to pay to up your placement in a Google search.
Old thread, sorry for reviving, but this is false. You can pay for an ad (which has the ad icon beside it so you know), but you can't pay for a bump in ranking. Anyone who tells you otherwise likely also has a bridge to sell you.

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#25 Post by Randy Bowman » July 31st, 2015, 9:08 pm

If it helps any, we own a wine shop.

Yes, we buy direct from some wineries and wholesale through distributors, BUT, there is a good portion of wine we buy online for ourselves because it's the only way we can get it AND for customers who just can't their hands on the wine or won't take the time to go on line and hunt down the wine.

Wine Access and Wine Library occasionally come up with and sell wines cheaper than we pay wholesale. Obviously, we drop those wines as a retailer, but there are some great buys out there.

Costco is also another resource. I've run across wines there that tax included were cheaper than what I paid wholesale 3 months prior.
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#26 Post by Jeff Vaughan » August 3rd, 2015, 6:13 pm

Chris Presutti wrote:
Dennis Kanagie wrote:Even though I pass at least 2 dozen liquor stores on the way, I drive 20 minutes to Wine Works because Charlie has always done me solid.
Wineworks is my favorite brick and mortar wine store too. I was there yesterday, in fact. And I agree that Charlie Beatty is a good guy. I got to know him when he was across Route 70 at Canal's Bottlestop for many years.

To the OP, I haven't bought a bottle of wine at retail in the state of Ohio in years due to their archaic three tier system and their "state minimum pricing" b.s. With the exception of occasional bottle or three from Wineworks, all of my domestic wine purchases are through direct mailers and everything else is from on-line purchases such as Wine Library, Vinopolis et al. Wine Searcher Pro is a gem. My favorite source in recent years has been Rob Panzer's Down to Earth.
Wine Works, Canal's, Wine Library, and Down to Earth is where I would shop. But I live in PA where retail shipping is a no no. [cry.gif]
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#27 Post by dsGriswold » August 16th, 2015, 8:52 pm

Online buying is a great marketing tool! I always buy more with a keystroke than when you have to carry it out to your car. I bought a lot from KLwines.com when I was buying South Am, French and Italian, bought some from Wine.com before discovering Garagiste.com for the French stuff & WineLibrary.com for Italian, then FullPull.com for the WA wines. Finally ended back up in OR where I buy from SecWines.com and Vinopolis.com with occasional forays down to StoryTellerWines.com. Local pickup now and I can get most anything I want. Further, the best deals are on Berserker Day, where I can buy a year's supply if I do not watch myself closely. I usually pick up some new producers to try and then sneak back on the computer and buy some holdover offers from some favorites.
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#28 Post by Eric San d a y » August 31st, 2015, 12:48 pm

Chris Presutti wrote:
Dennis Kanagie wrote:Even though I pass at least 2 dozen liquor stores on the way, I drive 20 minutes to Wine Works because Charlie has always done me solid.
Wineworks is my favorite brick and mortar wine store too. I was there yesterday, in fact. And I agree that Charlie Beatty is a good guy. I got to know him when he was across Route 70 at Canal's Bottlestop for many years.

To the OP, I haven't bought a bottle of wine at retail in the state of Ohio in years due to their archaic three tier system and their "state minimum pricing" b.s. With the exception of occasional bottle or three from Wineworks, all of my domestic wine purchases are through direct mailers and everything else is from on-line purchases such as Wine Library, Vinopolis et al. Wine Searcher Pro is a gem. My favorite source in recent years has been Rob Panzer's Down to Earth.
I ordered a case last Monday online from Wineworks, I said the temps were fine "now". The order was filled and shipped on Wednesday without checking with me, which I thought was odd given that it would sit at the UPS depot over the weekend, and it wasn't established that someone would be there on Monday (today, 8/31/15). The temps at the destination are now in the mid-eighties, so the wine is on a truck today and maybe tomorrow in that kind of heat, since in fact nobody was there to receive the wine today. I wrote two emails last week indicating my dissatisfaction and a third email requesting that the wine be delivered to a UPS store. The third email was bounced back to me three times, and the original two emails were not answered. So I feel that there is a good chance that ordering from Wineworks online is a bad idea. I've ordered about 20-30 cases online and never had anything like this happen. I realize that nobody on this board was suggesting that I order from Wineworks online, but when I looked on this thread before ordering, I didn't read these positive comments in that way. I thought I should offer another perspective. I hope these comments are measured, I intend them to be.

I second the vote for Panzer, Down to Earth Wines.

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#29 Post by jhemming » September 15th, 2015, 3:14 am

I think there is / needs to be a big distinction made between online retailers (often with b&m store) and the ubiquous flash sites or equivalents of. There are plenty of reputable online merchants with excellent service and great selection and price - perfect for purchasing specific sought after wines. Stick to the ones mentioned above or elsewhere on WB. I am a bit more weary of flash sites with deals too good to be true because in the end they often are. As a beginner (still not too far away) they are a very tempting way to purchase wine in a manner that becomes overdone and not necessarily the best in building a cellar or exploring the wine world / developing a palate.

A very good LWS is worth it's price in gold (often the markup seems that way) for the both the beginner and more advanced drinker if you use their expertise and advice.
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Re: Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#30 Post by D. Mowe » August 15th, 2018, 8:32 pm

Randy Bowman wrote:
July 31st, 2015, 9:08 pm
If it helps any, we own a wine shop.

Yes, we buy direct from some wineries and wholesale through distributors, BUT, there is a good portion of wine we buy online for ourselves because it's the only way we can get it AND for customers who just can't their hands on the wine or won't take the time to go on line and hunt down the wine.

Wine Access and Wine Library occasionally come up with and sell wines cheaper than we pay wholesale. Obviously, we drop those wines as a retailer, but there are some great buys out there.

Costco is also another resource. I've run across wines there that tax included were cheaper than what I paid wholesale 3 months prior.
Was thinking of plugging Carrie and randy when reading the posts before this one. If it’s good, they usually carry it and have very reasonable prices.

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Re: Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#31 Post by Christopher Knittel » October 30th, 2018, 6:35 pm

This is a great source of information. I was curious about the online options (other than wine.com) for Massachusetts residents, especially auctions.

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Re: Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#32 Post by kris_lelis » October 31st, 2018, 1:10 pm

For the past three years I have been living in Piedmont ,Italy in the area where they produce Barolo/Barbaresco and even if nearly evey Wine imaginable is available on any corner I still find myself ordering wine online every other week. The reason being that I’m always looking for something new something that I have not yet tried. Be it a old vintage or a little lnow producer the online wine world is just amazing.

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Re: Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#33 Post by jhemming » November 3rd, 2018, 8:24 pm

Christopher Knittel wrote:
October 30th, 2018, 6:35 pm
. I was curious about the online options (other than wine.com) for Massachusetts residents, especially auctions.
Open an UPS box in a neighboring state.
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Re: Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#34 Post by Jeff P » November 26th, 2018, 8:27 am

I use JJ Buckley and have had very good success with them and usually a lot cheaper than buying retail in my state
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Re: Thoughts about online wine purchasing?

#35 Post by dsGriswold » December 2nd, 2018, 11:30 am

Most of my purchases are online. We have two good online stores in town for local pick up. Berserker and emails fill in the blanks along with Full Pull and Last Bottle.
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