Say "GOODBYE' to coravin capsules

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John Steach
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Say "GOODBYE' to coravin capsules

#1 Post by John Steach » February 20th, 2018, 7:37 am

Last edited by John Steach on December 19th, 2018, 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

AlexM
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Say "GOODBYE' to coravin capsules

#2 Post by AlexM » February 20th, 2018, 7:39 am

That should last a bit. Wonder how much a tank will go for?
Alex M!n|<

John Steach
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Say "GOODBYE' to coravin capsules

#3 Post by John Steach » February 20th, 2018, 7:46 am

Its a small oxygen medical cylinder, 2.2 cubic feet. Used tank $30.00 to 40.00. Cga 580 valve $25.00 . UHP argon $40.00 to fill.
Holds about 40 cartridges . Same size as wine bottle, couple inches taller.

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Andrew Dodd
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#4 Post by Andrew Dodd » February 20th, 2018, 9:18 am

Looks awesome!

Knowing myself I'd find a way to blow up my kitchen with this thing

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#5 Post by Eric Michels » February 20th, 2018, 10:10 am

John - How did you make the connection from the hose to the Coravin device itself?

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#6 Post by John Steach » February 20th, 2018, 10:35 am

I machined a tube to the same specs as a cartridge. Machined a quick release on the hose side. 3d printed a handle.

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Matthew Brown
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#7 Post by Matthew Brown » February 20th, 2018, 10:44 am

Andrew Dodd wrote: Knowing myself I'd find a way to blow up my kitchen with this thing
At least the crime scene would be preserved.
The Chav who mostly isn't.

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PeterJ
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#8 Post by PeterJ » February 20th, 2018, 3:52 pm

Would you please post the technical specs, especially for the connection and quick release, before the letter from Coravin’s attorney arrives? Thanks.
Peter J@ckel

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#9 Post by Eric Michels » February 20th, 2018, 4:45 pm

Thanks John. I've seen these commercially available but for a price that I consider a bit rough. The hard part has always been the connection to the Coravin itself - that's what made me interested when you pegged the price at $65. You, though, have a much better complement of tooling than do I to make that reality. Well done.

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#10 Post by John Steach » February 20th, 2018, 4:54 pm

I have a Provisional Patent on the adapter. AS for the attorneys. I made a accessory for their device. I did not change or modify their product.
Much like auto acessory's. Bolt on wheels, exhaust. The technical specs cost me time and money. I willing to sell whatever you need. I field
tested the device for 2 years and are rock solid. Everything is lead free and/or food grade materials.

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#11 Post by Lonnie F. » February 20th, 2018, 6:08 pm

John Steach wrote:I machined a tube to the same specs as a cartridge. Machined a quick release on the hose side. 3d printed a handle.
I love the 3d printed handle
Lonnie Fuller

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#12 Post by PeterJ » February 21st, 2018, 3:55 pm

Cool. So when/how can we get these parts?
Peter J@ckel

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#13 Post by PeterJ » February 21st, 2018, 4:00 pm

Cool. So when/how can we get these parts? Seriously!
Peter J@ckel

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#14 Post by John Steach » February 21st, 2018, 5:19 pm


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Peter Tryba
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#15 Post by Peter Tryba » February 23rd, 2018, 3:23 am

Matthew Brown wrote:
Andrew Dodd wrote: Knowing myself I'd find a way to blow up my kitchen with this thing
At least the crime scene would be preserved.
Bravo
ITB
kidney fund: youcaring.com

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#16 Post by JonF » February 28th, 2018, 11:52 am

Interesting. Always though it would be interesting to experiment with jamming my TIG back purge hose down into a half drunk bottle before recorking to see if that was effective "enough" for a couple day hiatus. Seeing that you specify UHP argon, i went and checked the difference between it and industrial quality. Discounting the sterility of the container/regulator, the difference is 20 thousanths of a percentage (99.997 vs 99.999%) in favor of the UHP gas itself. Other elemental inclusions are higher by a few PPM according to 1 local supplier. What does Coravin supply in thier cartidges?

I can see this being super hand for those Napa wine bars that run a fleet of coravins. 40-60 bottle sample menu and at least %50 are coravin only.
Futej

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#17 Post by John Steach » February 28th, 2018, 5:14 pm

I believe they are manufactured by ISI in Austria.
From their web site.

Not all Argon Gas
is Born Equal.

Coravin Gas Capsules go beyond the Highest Quality Standards.

Ultra-Pure Argon Gas
Filled with 99.99% argon gas, Coravin Capsules will preserve the life and flavor of your wine like no other capsule. There is no reaction with the wine, no effect on the flavor profile. Just the perfect pour every time.

Patented Cap & Seal Technology
Never worry about gas leakage or flavor changes. Our patented technology ensures that no argon escapes, and that nothing will spoil the taste of your wine, even after many years.

Highest Manufacturing Standards
Specifically made in Austria, Coravin Capsules are produced with the latest manufacturing processes and deep cleaning techniques that exceed food-grade standards.

Multi-Glass Capacity
With the power to pour up to 15 glasses of wine, one capsule goes a long way in extending your wine experience from bottle to bottle.

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#18 Post by PeterJ » March 2nd, 2018, 10:02 am

JinF -“Interesting. Always though it would be interesting to experiment with jamming my TIG back purge hose down into a half drunk bottle before recorking to see if that was effective "enough" for a couple day hiatus.”

The device I used to make (and still use) does essentifally that, and I’ve spoken to at least one Winery owner who does what you’re suggesting in his tasting room. As with many other things the success rate depends on the Wine and who is drinking it.

Because the bottle has been opened, and if it is allowed to sit any length of time before argon is injected, this method is not the best compared to Coravin. I’d venture, though, that it IS good enough for the vast majority of people. Maybe not a vast majority of those on these boards however. IMHO the same would be true if the difference between industrial and food grade argon.
Peter J@ckel

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#19 Post by John Steach » March 2nd, 2018, 10:29 am

You are correct!!!!! Peter
The difference in price between industrial and food grade is very nominal, 15 to 20 dollars a cylinder. Finding it is a little harder. Some of the
gas company's want to sell certified argon as food grade, beware is very pricey, just for some paper work.

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#20 Post by PeterJ » March 2nd, 2018, 2:30 pm

I used to use Air Liquide. Got it through a welding supply place which ordered it for me. The real difference, AFIK, is ‘provinance’. The food grade came with the top wrapped securely and Aiir Liquide told me it was to certify that nothing else had been in that cylinder.
Peter J@ckel

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#21 Post by Gary Schulte » March 8th, 2018, 4:20 pm

Is this thing legal.......not covered under current patents?

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#22 Post by M a t t W e i n s t e i n » March 11th, 2018, 2:36 pm

Is this thing legal.......not covered under current patents?
I'm reluctant to comment specifically as I am a practicing patent attorney. But I will say the following:

It seems from this thread that the user still has to purchase a Coravin device at retail to use with the modified gas source.

There is a concept in patent law called "patent exhaustion" that limits the extent to which patent holders can control an individual article of a patented product after an authorized sale. If anybody wants some light reading, suggest looking up some commentary about the Supreme Court's 2017 decision regarding this concept in Lexmark.

I am not sure if they have a patent that specifically covers some aspect of the cylinder that the maker had to replicate (i.e., one that may not be exhausted by the retail sale of the device -- think of the K-Cup).

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#23 Post by Geoff K » April 7th, 2018, 1:35 pm

Very interesting! :)
K e @ h

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#24 Post by ssukhots » April 22nd, 2018, 3:04 pm

What’s a cool idea. Maybe more suitable for commercial use though
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#25 Post by A. Bohr » April 23rd, 2018, 7:07 am

Wonderful idea. Clearly a boon for wine bars/restaurants, but also the consumer who enjoys wine each night. As someone who would like to have open 4-8 wines at any given time (for variety on hand) I think tis is wonderful!
A s c h e r

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#26 Post by A. Bohr » April 23rd, 2018, 7:09 am

QUESTION: Now that your invention has had some time for real world testing have you found any drawbacks? Is the pressure of the tank greater than that pf the capsules - such that seals or internals would have the potential to leak? Or worse? Any cons?
A s c h e r

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#27 Post by John Steach » April 24th, 2018, 6:41 am

A. Bohr wrote:QUESTION: Now that your invention has had some time for real world testing have you found any drawbacks? Is the pressure of the tank greater than that pf the capsules - such that seals or internals would have the potential to leak? Or worse? Any cons?
Great question: The only real draw back would be the portability, having a hose and cylinder attached to it. A argon cartridge has 2600 psi and
is converted by the Coravin to 25 psi. My Argon adapter has a 2200 psi cylinder and I have install a preset regulator to 75psi. The 75 psi regulator
is used for safety. If the hose is cut or disconnected there is no chance of it flying around. Have you ever seen a fire hose get away !!!
Using a 75psi regulator does slow down the flow of wine from the Coravin, It adds aprox. 2 seconds more to a 6 oz pour. 1 note: you can speed up the flow of the coravin by holding the argon release button for a few seconds. The major benefit is if you are pouring from a 20CF or larger cylinder at a pennys a glass. Using one cartridge a week, it will pay for itself in less then a year !!!!

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#28 Post by John Steach » May 16th, 2018, 1:15 pm

I have been trying to figure out a way to increase the psi on the regulator to speed it up the flow and found out that a slightly stiffer hose allows me
increase my psi to 150-175 without any hose whip if hose comes loose or cut. Same flow speed as coravin No draw back now.

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#29 Post by PeterJ » May 19th, 2018, 4:51 pm

How’s the flexibility of the stiffer hose compared with the one you’ve been using...... and would length affect the pressure delivered to the Coravin?
Peter J@ckel

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#30 Post by PeterJ » May 19th, 2018, 4:51 pm

John.......How’s the flexibility of the stiffer hose (ease of movement) compared with the one you’ve been using...... and would length affect the pressure delivered to the Coravin?
Peter J@ckel

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#31 Post by John Steach » May 19th, 2018, 10:54 pm

Hi Peter, the hose I have been using for the last couple of months is the one I tested at the higher pressure.
The delivery pressure loss for hose under 10 feet is negligible at the worst is would be 1 psi every 2 feet. Higher
pressure drops happen after 30 feet. Called dirty 30.

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#32 Post by David DG » June 19th, 2018, 6:58 pm

This is the coolest freaking thing... been wanting to save on these damn cylinders for a while now. Thought of printing an adapter for it but have not gotten round to it. It's in my watchlist on eBay now!
D. De Gendt

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#33 Post by John Steach » June 30th, 2018, 7:43 am

There is a few issues with printing just the adapter. #1 is sealing it so it doesn't leak. I tried around 15 different filament and all leak.
#2 finding a non toxic sealer that can be used. My Product and stainless steel. Lead free brass and food grade materials. The hardest
part was making it non toxic.

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#34 Post by PeterJ » July 4th, 2018, 9:40 am

John Steach wrote:I have been trying to figure out a way to increase the psi on the regulator to speed it up the flow and found out that a slightly stiffer hose allows me
increase my psi to 150-175 without any hose whip if hose comes loose or cut. Same flow speed as coravin No draw back now.
John just replaced the regulator on our unit with the 150psi model. We are now very happy campers with the Coravin working at pretty much the same flow rate it did with capsules..... and NO CAPSULES TO REPLACE!!!
Peter J@ckel

Andy Ryle
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Re: Say "GOODBYE' to coravin capsules

#35 Post by Andy Ryle » August 26th, 2018, 4:05 pm

There are cheaper ones on Amazon than the Coravin capsules.

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Re: Say "GOODBYE' to coravin capsules

#36 Post by Steve Gower » January 14th, 2019, 9:43 am

Its not at all difficult to build your own Coravin adapter. I spent less than $20 on pieces not including bottle, regulator, and hose quick connect. The only fab work was drilling out the cartridge holder and tapping some threads in a stainless pipe nipple. I guess I should take some photos and post.
Steve Gower - Crux Winery

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Re: Say "GOODBYE' to coravin capsules

#37 Post by Al Osterheld » January 14th, 2019, 11:55 am

If the Coravin limits the pressure to 25 psig, why do you need 150 psig to get the same flow rate?

-Al

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Re: Say "GOODBYE' to coravin capsules

#38 Post by John Steach » January 18th, 2019, 5:04 pm

More volume of argon.

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