A few questions for those who have gone through this process, or are in the business:
I am looking at converting a basement room into a wine cellar. My wife’s colleague is moving and will cell us his racking/whisperkool unit. We have had his contractor give us an estimate. Our room is 9x11. We live in Appleton, WI, and I believe the basement is about 10 ft below ground.
The contractor was proposing to build up the floor with 2x4 and blown insulation below a tile floor. He was concerned that if we did not do this, we would have a problem with condensation. In looking at other cellar building threads, I saw a few experts state that this is unnecessary in a Wisconsin climate. If not necessary, I would certainly prefer to put a membrane on the concrete with tile on top, rather than build up the floor.
Another question: The racking/Whisperkool unit we are looking at buying is from 2008. Any thoughts on what would be reasonable depreciation? We need to arrive at a reasonable price.
As long as you get a good vapor barrier seal on the concrete slab, I see no need to build up and insulate as condensation should not be a problem. Also, at 10 feet below grade in Wisconsin the cooling loss thru the floor will be very low.
As for a 6 year old WhisperKool (depending on how much it ran) I might “guess” at 25% of replacement cost. The racking might hold more of its retail value, but it’s a very limited market. If the seller is moving and doesn’t what to pay to have them shipped, I would offer a low number and go from there.
Thanks Dale. That was my gut feeling regarding the cellar floor, but I have no background in construction.
Coming up with the rack/cooling unit pricing is difficult, as the owner is moving, but is a friend of ours. Therefore, want to find a reasonable price.
I would be more worried about the concrete slab being a heat source in the summer that condensation. My cellar is almost your size and I do not have anything on the floor but tile. I have no issues. Insulate the crap out of the ceiling. 2 X 6 walls and you will be fine with a decent cooling unit.
Is an expected life span for a cooling unit really only 5 years? I’m not questioning you so much as surprised that something costing $2000+ would be expected to last only that long (obviously results may differ, and I understand your point is that it’s pretty much fully depreciated already).
Racks are all-heart redwood Platinum series from International Wine Accessories (not sure if that is helpful). I’m just looking for a relative percentage discount from retail that would seem fair.
At 10’ below grade you slab will stay around 55 degrees (the earth’s core soil temp). If you plan on you cellar being around 53, they the differential will not be enough to require a floor, a good vapor barrier (seamless if possible) would do the job
Do you have “basement smell” - if so I would insulate the floor just to prevent that smell in the wine cellars. We have built two temperature-controlled wine rooms and in both we built-up the floor with 2x6 framing. If you are using 2x6 on the walls (which I would recommend for strength and depth for insulation) building up the floor should not add a lot of money or time to the project. If you do decide to build up the floor, I would recommend wood flooring rather than tile to eliminate any cracking due to the weight of the racking and bottles on the sub-floor. We found installing wood flooring to be much easier than putting down tile so you may want to consider even if you don’t build up the floor. Lumber Liquidators (no affiliation) offers a broad range of engineered products in all price ranges. (BTW when I say we built two cellars - we actually did the construction and I am very proud to say I installed the flooring.)
If you have “basement smell” that’s likely mildew from some humidity. That’s why I would never put a wood floor in a basement in WI. It’s not as dry as it is in Napa. I had a cellar in NYC with concrete. Insulated the walls and ceiling and could keep it passive for five months out of the year. It maintained a steady temp of 60 with no cooling. I got it cooler with a unit. WI is much colder.
Obviously, the cooling system is the heart of any non-passive cellar. Size does matter as well as configuration. If using a through the wall style, you need a large (some say twice as large as the cellar itself) space for ventilation, and even then you deal with the noise and heat. I have a split system and have never regretted the decision. While it might be tempting to use an available used system, I would only do so if it genuinely met my needs. When going through the time and expense of constructing a cellar, you don’t want to compromise on its heart.
We didn’t have basement smell in either residence but know others who built a cellar and do (they have cinder block walls not poured concrete). They wish they had built up the floor before the walls were finished - I toss this out only as a suggestion for the OP.
Indeed, I’m not sure how building up the floor will prevent that smell. It could make it worse if moisture is trapped in the space below the floor and above the slab. If you have a cooling unit that should help control the humidity anyway.
If you have “basement smell”, then you should get a dehumidifier for the entire basement.
No issues with basement smell. The basement is around 80% finished and we use a dehumidifier in the summer. I just got the initial proposal back from the contractor and was disappointed by the price - so far the estimate is around $19k without the racking/cooling unit. In our area we don’t have dedicated wine cellar companies, so you take your chance with a contractor.
Last night I was perusing Craigslist and found this “wine room” for sale locally. It is around two years old and selling for around $2k. http://www.finewinecabinets.com/wine-room-1300. It is making me wonder if it is worth the extra $20-25k to build the cellar!
Yes, it is worth it. Actually, I don’t know that, but I’m having one built right now, so have to say that. But really, it is just so fun to be finally building the wine cellar that I can’t imagine it won’t be worth it.
$19K! That seems really expensive if no racks/cooling.
The work involves framing some walls, insulation, drywall (or some sort of paneling), and flooring. Materials on that for the size your after is <$2000, unless you go for some really expensive tiles. The door can be as expensive as you like, but shouldn’t be more than $2000, which is what a nice looking exterior door would cost.
In my case, the racks were easily half the materials cost.