2011 Maison Ilan

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CWun
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#1 Post by CWun » February 11th, 2014, 4:01 pm

Not beating a dead horse, just curious why Ray changes his mind all the time, especially when his first email implies bottling is actually "underway".

On Dec 18, 2013 he sent this out:
"2011 bottling underway

Happy Holidays everyone!

We are closing out the end of year activities here at Maison Ilan. We have had a full 2013 (more on that later). Why not close it out with bottling the 2011s? The wines are tasting, well, as they should be. The extra time in barrel has given the wines more time to settle. Prior to the extended aging, while there were a few barrels which were somewhat reduced, we were terribly happy with all of them. I personally don't view reduction at lower levels to be of concern. However, these reductions are best to be resolved inside of the Barrel than inside of the bottle. You never know when someone might have the thought to open a one year old Grand Cru after all. ;) As it turned out, the reductions passed without racking them, adding copper or anything else. Time sorted it for us"

Then today:

"2011 will be bottled shortly. This has been a topic of great interest for some. In short, a longer time in barrel provides the wines with more time to mature in one place without movement. It is an added benefit for the wines, especially those intended for a long evolution. In making this decision we have considered the patience involved and we appreciate your understanding that we do things quite differently here at Maison Ilan. We don't take the short cuts. Every decision is made based upon sheer intuition. The goal is to work as simply as we can while giving respect to these vineyards that have been cherished for numerous centuries. To that end, we allow the wines to move at their own pace not the pace of our modern times. Wines of this level do best when given time to express what makes them unique. Thank you for understanding that this is an essential part of our wines.
"
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#2 Post by Nathan L » February 11th, 2014, 5:48 pm

"Not beating a dead horse"?!? This horse is dead, reincarnated, and beaten to death again.
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#3 Post by c fu » February 11th, 2014, 6:16 pm

CWun wrote:Not beating a dead horse, just curious why Ray changes his mind all the time, especially when his first email implies bottling is actually "underway".

On Dec 18, 2013 he sent this out:
"2011 bottling underway

Happy Holidays everyone!

We are closing out the end of year activities here at Maison Ilan. We have had a full 2013 (more on that later). Why not close it out with bottling the 2011s? The wines are tasting, well, as they should be. The extra time in barrel has given the wines more time to settle. Prior to the extended aging, while there were a few barrels which were somewhat reduced, we were terribly happy with all of them. I personally don't view reduction at lower levels to be of concern. However, these reductions are best to be resolved inside of the Barrel than inside of the bottle. You never know when someone might have the thought to open a one year old Grand Cru after all. ;) As it turned out, the reductions passed without racking them, adding copper or anything else. Time sorted it for us"

Then today:

"2011 will be bottled shortly. This has been a topic of great interest for some. In short, a longer time in barrel provides the wines with more time to mature in one place without movement. It is an added benefit for the wines, especially those intended for a long evolution. In making this decision we have considered the patience involved and we appreciate your understanding that we do things quite differently here at Maison Ilan. We don't take the short cuts. Every decision is made based upon sheer intuition. The goal is to work as simply as we can while giving respect to these vineyards that have been cherished for numerous centuries. To that end, we allow the wines to move at their own pace not the pace of our modern times. Wines of this level do best when given time to express what makes them unique. Thank you for understanding that this is an essential part of our wines.
"
They do things differently there at Maison Ilan. [snort.gif]
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#4 Post by Leah Amir » February 11th, 2014, 6:19 pm

Ray must own a lot of barrels...

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#5 Post by CWun » February 11th, 2014, 6:35 pm

Nathan L wrote:"Not beating a dead horse"?!? This horse is dead, reincarnated, and beaten to death again.

Just what issue do you as see as settled?

The larger story still continues...
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#6 Post by Nathan L » February 11th, 2014, 6:45 pm

CWun wrote:
Nathan L wrote:"Not beating a dead horse"?!? This horse is dead, reincarnated, and beaten to death again.

Just what issue do you as see as settled?

The larger story still continues...
By now we all know that Ray will release the wines when he feels they are ready. He may (and probably will) change his mind as many times as to what ready means. If you buy his wines you have to accept you have no control over when the wines come in. He is more great but eccentric artist than businessman.
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#7 Post by A Yambor » February 11th, 2014, 6:48 pm

Having been to Maison Ilan personally and seen "all" (according to Ray at the time) of his 2011s in barrel, having a case of these 2011s on order, the delays (delays and more delays) of bottling and the large number of people I personally know that have paid him for wine upfront (myself included), I will be very interested to see how this plays out. There just wasn't that much wine in the cellar.

I personally know individuals who in 2010 were shorted bottles they prepaid for (I found this out after a friend and I paid for a split a case of 2011s).

If Ray is just now bottling his 2011s, he is among the very, very, very last to bottle (outside of experimental projects).
Last edited by A Yambor on February 11th, 2014, 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#8 Post by A Yambor » February 11th, 2014, 6:50 pm

Nathan L wrote:
CWun wrote:
Nathan L wrote:"Not beating a dead horse"?!? This horse is dead, reincarnated, and beaten to death again.

Just what issue do you as see as settled?

The larger story still continues...
By now we all know that Ray will release the wines when he feels they are ready. He may (and probably will) change his mind as many times as to what ready means. If you buy his wines you have to accept you have no control over when the wines come in. He is more great but eccentric artist than businessman.
Nathan,

Care to explain what in the hell the bolded text above means?
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#9 Post by Rick.T » February 11th, 2014, 7:04 pm

I could really care less if I get them this week or in Dec; they will just be moved to offsite storage where they will sit for many years before I decide to drink them.
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#10 Post by CWun » February 11th, 2014, 7:13 pm

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Last edited by CWun on February 11th, 2014, 7:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#11 Post by Wes Barton » February 11th, 2014, 7:14 pm

The problem is him publishing predictions, not the "changing of the mind" which is really more using his best judgment to gauge timing. Having his own bottling equipment is a luxury that means he can optimize the timing for each wine, and make fairly last moment judgment calls. Normally, a small winery has to group wines together to bottle to keep costs down, but that involves a certain degree of compromise on timing, and the call has to be made somewhat far out due to scheduling with the bottler (plus it's subject to that person's previous bookings).

He did post rain was a factor in the delay. Not clear to what degree. Of course, if you want an actual complete answer you're quite free to ask him. He has email, a blog, a facebook page...
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#12 Post by Randy Bowman » February 11th, 2014, 7:24 pm

[popcorn.gif]
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#13 Post by Rick.T » February 11th, 2014, 7:27 pm

CWun wrote:
Rick.T wrote:I could really care less if I get them this week or in Dec; they will just be moved to offsite storage where they will sit for many years before I decide to drink them.
I think you're missing the bigger picture. As far as the wine itself yes, I'm sure most of us won't be opening them for a long time.
I'm not missing the big picture, I just really don't care if the wines are late; I would rather end up with a wine that is ready to bottle vs one that was bottled prematurely to placate some pissed off buyers and meet a self imposed deadline. Does Ray need to think twice before he posts these dates....yes.
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#14 Post by CWun » February 11th, 2014, 7:39 pm

Wes Barton wrote:....
He did post rain was a factor in the delay. Not clear to what degree. Of course, if you want an actual complete answer you're quite free to ask him. He has email, a blog, a facebook page...
Fair enough. I'm not facebook friends with Maison Ilan, so all I have to go by is his email he sends to his customers...which I logically assumed would contain similar information...

If his email just said, "hey guys, we had rain for the past month and a half. I have to carry my wine bucket by exposed bucket up the steps to my tank and I don't want rain to get in it" Then I would have shut up. Instead his email just mentions more about doing things the right way.
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#15 Post by Wes Barton » February 11th, 2014, 7:48 pm

Rick.T wrote:I'm not missing the big picture, I just really don't care if the wines are late; I would rather end up with a wine that is ready to bottle vs one that was bottled prematurely to placate some pissed off buyers and meet a self imposed deadline. Does Ray need to think twice before he posts these dates....yes.
You see, most winemakers aren't so open and honest. When the show enthusiasm, it's purely manufactured. Ray needs to hire a PR consultant so he'll learn how to construct a charming facade. They'd teach him how to lie to his customers, to tell them what they want to hear instead of the raw truth, so they'll be happy chowing down on bullshit instead of trying to micromanage/second-guess his business for him online, like some nerd playing fantasy football or something.
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#16 Post by David K o l i n » February 11th, 2014, 8:00 pm

Non-issue for me

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#17 Post by Randy Bowman » February 11th, 2014, 8:08 pm

Image
IN THE BUSINESS SHILL: An associate of a person selling goods, who pretends no association to the seller and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer.

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#18 Post by Rick.T » February 11th, 2014, 8:08 pm

Wes Barton wrote:
Rick.T wrote:I'm not missing the big picture, I just really don't care if the wines are late; I would rather end up with a wine that is ready to bottle vs one that was bottled prematurely to placate some pissed off buyers and meet a self imposed deadline. Does Ray need to think twice before he posts these dates....yes.
You see, most winemakers aren't so open and honest. When the show enthusiasm, it's purely manufactured. Ray needs to hire a PR consultant so he'll learn how to construct a charming facade. They'd teach him how to lie to his customers, to tell them what they want to hear instead of the raw truth, so they'll be happy chowing down on bullshit instead of trying to micromanage/second-guess his business for him online, like some nerd playing fantasy football or something.
+1

Exactly! How many other Burgundy producers try to honestly keep you in the loop, TRY to answer emails, etc. I'm sure he learned quite a bit this year that will help drive his future business plan.
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#19 Post by Ed Murray » February 11th, 2014, 8:11 pm

Randy Bowman wrote:Image
LOL! [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] LOL!
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#20 Post by Beau Carufel » February 11th, 2014, 8:13 pm

Well played, Randy.
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#21 Post by rfelthoven » February 11th, 2014, 8:24 pm

If people who have paid for their wines are satisfied then Ray is doing his job well enough. If they feel deceived in a consistent basis they should spend their wine dollars elsewhere. What else to say? If they believe information is slow coming and this thread provides relief then it appears to have value as well.
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#22 Post by A Yambor » February 11th, 2014, 9:59 pm

Ray Walker wrote:

"The 2011s will indeed be bottled shortly and shipped out to the US before the end of November. I make it a point to not speak about my views on my own wines but I can say that I believe they are what they should be and that the time has treated them well.

If anyone has further questions please don't hesitate to contact me. I don't have staff to answer emails, never have, so I thank you for your patience in my time responding."

"November" above referred to November of 2013.
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#23 Post by T. Altmayer » February 11th, 2014, 10:20 pm

I don't feel deceived, but when someone relatively inexperienced keeps changing his mind and is keeping the wine in barrel far longer than the norm, it makes you wonder whether something is wrong.
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#24 Post by Tom Moore » February 11th, 2014, 10:59 pm

This is sounding more and more like a winery Premiere Cru should be handling, sell it first then figure out how to fill it second!

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#25 Post by Erich Sachse » February 12th, 2014, 4:01 am

I gott he same wording from Ray in his original 2013 release email on November 9th:

"2011 will be bottled shortly. This has been a topic of great interest for some. In short, a longer time in barrel provides the wines with more time to mature in one place without movement. It is an added benefit for the wines, especially those intended for a long evolution. In making this decision we have considered the patience involved and we appreciate your understanding that we do things quite differently here at Maison Ilan. We don't take the short cuts. Every decision is made based upon sheer intuition. The goal is to work as simply as we can while giving respect to these vineyards that have been cherished for numerous centuries. To that end, we allow the wines to move at their own pace not the pace of our modern times. Wines of this level do best when given time to express what makes them unique. Thank you for understanding that this is an essential part of our wines."

He is also announcing the Abbaye for the second time -- I take this as him resending the release email, not that the 2011s are yet to be bottled. I don't have any confirmation of this, just my hunch.

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#26 Post by Bill Bøykin » February 12th, 2014, 4:29 am

"He’s got everything he needs, he’s an artist, he don’t look back"............

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#27 Post by Howard Cooper » February 12th, 2014, 10:42 am

The incentive is to bottle earlier. Wine takes up space at a winery. A lot of wineries bottle based on room - getting room for the next vintage. Also, wine evaporates some in barrel. That is why wineries top up (or add marbles or something to the barrel). So, the longer you wait to bottle, the less wine you have to sell.

I am not sure what the incentives are to holding up bottling other than an artistic judgment that the wine is not ready. Would someone please tell what "larger story" they think is going on here.

I think these threads will teach other wineries the lesson to never discuss what they are doing and why. Anyone who sees what Ray has gone through for being open and then changing his mind (or whatever) would never utter a public word about their plans.

So, what you guys have accomplished is to drive Ray from wine boards and to discourage any other winery from being public about their thought processes. Congratulations.
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#28 Post by Merrill Lindquist » February 12th, 2014, 11:05 am

Howard Cooper wrote:The incentive is to bottle earlier. Wine takes up space at a winery. A lot of wineries bottle based on room - getting room for the next vintage. Also, wine evaporates some in barrel. That is why wineries top up (or add marbles or something to the barrel). So, the longer you wait to bottle, the less wine you have to sell.

I am not sure what the incentives are to holding up bottling other than an artistic judgment that the wine is not ready. Would someone please tell what "larger story" they think is going on here.

I think these threads will teach other wineries the lesson to never discuss what they are doing and why. Anyone who sees what Ray has gone through for being open and then changing his mind (or whatever) would never utter a public word about their plans.

So, what you guys have accomplished is to drive Ray from wine boards and to discourage any other winery from being public about their thought processes. Congratulations.
Howard - I don't think it is that clear cut. And I am not talking about Ray Walker and Maison Ilan, specifically. I am talking about what it is for wineries to be involved in these public forums.

On the positive side: wineries here (and on the other boards) mostly receive respect. Publicity. Connections with potential customers. Connections with people who share our passion/interest in wine - after all, most of us wineries are also (as people) consumers, geeks, collectors and into all things wine. Not all of us, but I would say most of us. And for me one of the largest pluses: we get to meet and develop relationships with incredible people from so many different places.

But the negatives to being transparent, available, and for sharing our thoughts and methods is that what we do, as a winery (and sometimes privately, as an individual), is leave ourselves open to perhaps more discussion than we intended, more criticism than we hoped for, and the occasional onslaught of judgement that cuts to the core. Sometimes there are people on these boards who appear to "cheerlead" too much for their favorite wineries or labels. Or, the inverse, tend to display something that can feel like they have an axe to grind.

I say it is all part of it. Participation on wine boards is, for everyone, - wineries included - voluntary. If it detracts from your business or your own sense of well-being, then it is time to re-evaluate that participation.
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#29 Post by David K o l i n » February 12th, 2014, 11:07 am

His blog states (from an entry last week) that "Each 2011 terroir has been bottled and is ready to go besides the three grands crus." and should ship to importers this week.

http://blog.maison-ilan.com/2014/02/07/ ... rush-rain/

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#30 Post by billnanson » February 12th, 2014, 11:19 am

I have to say, I like an artist doing what they think is right. What would Pollack or Dali have produced if working by concensus?

The problem is telling everybody, because you can always find 10 people who disagree, and in this internet-age - highly publicly. Ray would surely have communicated differently if he'd hired a PR pro. But it seems you get what you see.

The wines will be what they will be be, let's see then...
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#31 Post by C 0 R E Y M. » February 12th, 2014, 11:30 am

Howard Cooper wrote:The incentive is to bottle earlier. Wine takes up space at a winery. A lot of wineries bottle based on room - getting room for the next vintage. Also, wine evaporates some in barrel. That is why wineries top up (or add marbles or something to the barrel). So, the longer you wait to bottle, the less wine you have to sell.

I am not sure what the incentives are to holding up bottling other than an artistic judgment that the wine is not ready. Would someone please tell what "larger story" they think is going on here.

I think these threads will teach other wineries the lesson to never discuss what they are doing and why. Anyone who sees what Ray has gone through for being open and then changing his mind (or whatever) would never utter a public word about their plans.

So, what you guys have accomplished is to drive Ray from wine boards and to discourage any other winery from being public about their thought processes. Congratulations.
The irony is thick here. If there's one business lesson for other wineries to learn from the Maison Ilan story it's about the power of internet marketing. I'd be hard-pressed to think of another winery that has benefited more from the existence of internet wine boards than Maison Ilan. There probably wouldn't be a Maison Ilan without internet wine boards.
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#32 Post by Craig G » February 12th, 2014, 11:30 am

I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.
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#33 Post by Scot H. » February 12th, 2014, 11:32 am

Talk about mass confusion. It is clear to me that Ray simply resent the earlier offer email (presumably to wider distribution). Here is the email from the OP (I received it too yesterday). Note the bolded section.
2013 Maison Ilan Offer (please disregard this section if you have previously received a related email)

Hello everyone
it's that time of year again. 2013 will mark our 5th vintage in Burgundy. There are lots of updates that will be fleshed out in the coming days but this email is to focus on three things.

1) 2010 & 2011 delivery

[...]

2011 will be bottled shortly.
I went back and found the same email (with the comment about the 2011s) sent on November 9, 2013.
2013 Maison Ilan

Hello everyone
it's that time of year again. 2013 will mark our 5th vintage in Burgundy. There are lots of updates that will be fleshed out in the coming days but this email is to focus on three things.

1) 2010 & 2011 delivery

[...]

2011 will be bottled shortly.
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#34 Post by Howard Cooper » February 12th, 2014, 11:42 am

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
Howard Cooper wrote:The incentive is to bottle earlier. Wine takes up space at a winery. A lot of wineries bottle based on room - getting room for the next vintage. Also, wine evaporates some in barrel. That is why wineries top up (or add marbles or something to the barrel). So, the longer you wait to bottle, the less wine you have to sell.

I am not sure what the incentives are to holding up bottling other than an artistic judgment that the wine is not ready. Would someone please tell what "larger story" they think is going on here.

I think these threads will teach other wineries the lesson to never discuss what they are doing and why. Anyone who sees what Ray has gone through for being open and then changing his mind (or whatever) would never utter a public word about their plans.

So, what you guys have accomplished is to drive Ray from wine boards and to discourage any other winery from being public about their thought processes. Congratulations.
Howard - I don't think it is that clear cut. And I am not talking about Ray Walker and Maison Ilan, specifically. I am talking about what it is for wineries to be involved in these public forums.

On the positive side: wineries here (and on the other boards) mostly receive respect. Publicity. Connections with potential customers. Connections with people who share our passion/interest in wine - after all, most of us wineries are also (as people) consumers, geeks, collectors and into all things wine. Not all of us, but I would say most of us. And for me one of the largest pluses: we get to meet and develop relationships with incredible people from so many different places.

But the negatives to being transparent, available, and for sharing our thoughts and methods is that what we do, as a winery (and sometimes privately, as an individual), is leave ourselves open to perhaps more discussion than we intended, more criticism than we hoped for, and the occasional onslaught of judgement that cuts to the core. Sometimes there are people on these boards who appear to "cheerlead" too much for their favorite wineries or labels. Or, the inverse, tend to display something that can feel like they have an axe to grind.

I say it is all part of it. Participation on wine boards is, for everyone, - wineries included - voluntary. If it detracts from your business or your own sense of well-being, then it is time to re-evaluate that participation.

Fair enough. But I would like to see more participation from winemakers like you. I like to learn on these wine boards rather than prove how much I know.
Howard

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#35 Post by Merrill Lindquist » February 12th, 2014, 11:52 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
Merrill Lindquist wrote:
Howard Cooper wrote:The incentive is to bottle earlier. Wine takes up space at a winery. A lot of wineries bottle based on room - getting room for the next vintage. Also, wine evaporates some in barrel. That is why wineries top up (or add marbles or something to the barrel). So, the longer you wait to bottle, the less wine you have to sell.

I am not sure what the incentives are to holding up bottling other than an artistic judgment that the wine is not ready. Would someone please tell what "larger story" they think is going on here.

I think these threads will teach other wineries the lesson to never discuss what they are doing and why. Anyone who sees what Ray has gone through for being open and then changing his mind (or whatever) would never utter a public word about their plans.

So, what you guys have accomplished is to drive Ray from wine boards and to discourage any other winery from being public about their thought processes. Congratulations.
Howard - I don't think it is that clear cut. And I am not talking about Ray Walker and Maison Ilan, specifically. I am talking about what it is for wineries to be involved in these public forums.

On the positive side: wineries here (and on the other boards) mostly receive respect. Publicity. Connections with potential customers. Connections with people who share our passion/interest in wine - after all, most of us wineries are also (as people) consumers, geeks, collectors and into all things wine. Not all of us, but I would say most of us. And for me one of the largest pluses: we get to meet and develop relationships with incredible people from so many different places.

But the negatives to being transparent, available, and for sharing our thoughts and methods is that what we do, as a winery (and sometimes privately, as an individual), is leave ourselves open to perhaps more discussion than we intended, more criticism than we hoped for, and the occasional onslaught of judgement that cuts to the core. Sometimes there are people on these boards who appear to "cheerlead" too much for their favorite wineries or labels. Or, the inverse, tend to display something that can feel like they have an axe to grind.

I say it is all part of it. Participation on wine boards is, for everyone, - wineries included - voluntary. If it detracts from your business or your own sense of well-being, then it is time to re-evaluate that participation.

Fair enough. But I would like to see more participation from winemakers like you. I like to learn on these wine boards rather than prove how much I know.
Thank you, Howard. On Monday, I just finished my tasting/blending trials for my 2012s. I and the couple of people who tasted my final cuts were so excited - euphoric, almost! And I was tempted to start a thread about this kind of excitement, and some of the realizations we all had while doing this rather involved exercise (that as a winery, I will live with until the last bottle of this vintage is sold). But after weighing out the gains versus the pains of laying out this stuff "to the world," I decided I wasn't ready for that kind of exposure...that kind of questioning that can lead to questions I don't feel it is best to answer. And I know there are likely some people out there who will make me wish I had not said anything at all.

As I said before, it is all "part of it."
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#36 Post by Howard Cooper » February 12th, 2014, 12:01 pm

Merrill, I find that very sad and I feel like I am losing out on a lot of interesting information because of a few people who want prove how important they are.
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#37 Post by Gobindjit S. Dhaliwal » February 12th, 2014, 12:03 pm

Check out Ray's Instagram, here are a couple of videos and pics of the wines being bottled... not sure if this will clear things up?

video:


pics:


ITB

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#38 Post by CWun » February 12th, 2014, 12:11 pm

fine. fine. everything is copacetic. okay?
Apparently Ray understands how to use web 2.0 tools like instagram, facebook and a blog, but can't get his story straight in emails.

I choose not to follow everyone on instagram, facebook and blogs so I apparently miss out on how he carries his wine up the cellar stairs two buckets by two buckets exposed to the sky before dumping them into his bottling tank.
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#39 Post by Brady Daniels » February 12th, 2014, 12:37 pm

Just chill, C. You judge Ray, and others judge you. What outcome were you hoping for?
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#40 Post by c fu » February 12th, 2014, 12:39 pm

Brady Daniels wrote:Just chill, C. You judge Ray, and others judge you. What outcome were you hoping for?
I think Cary needs a Howard Cooper in his corner [snort.gif]
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#41 Post by CWun » February 12th, 2014, 12:41 pm

Charlie Fu wrote:
Brady Daniels wrote:Just chill, C. You judge Ray, and others judge you. What outcome were you hoping for?
I think Cary needs a Howard Cooper in his corner [snort.gif]
maybe a bill klapp [cheers.gif]
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#42 Post by CWun » February 12th, 2014, 12:42 pm

Brady Daniels wrote:Just chill, C. You judge Ray, and others judge you. What outcome were you hoping for?
I don't mind the judging. What else is the internet for?
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#43 Post by Mark C » February 12th, 2014, 12:46 pm

Craig Gleason wrote:I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.
[winner.gif] Thanks, Hal! Now, can you please open the pod bay doors, I need to move a foudre.
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#44 Post by Paul Jaouen » February 12th, 2014, 1:08 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:The incentive is to bottle earlier. Wine takes up space at a winery. A lot of wineries bottle based on room - getting room for the next vintage. Also, wine evaporates some in barrel. That is why wineries top up (or add marbles or something to the barrel). So, the longer you wait to bottle, the less wine you have to sell.
The incentive should be to bottle when ready. If I recall correctly, Galloni ripped the 2009 Lignier wines for being kept in barrel too long. I have no clue about Ray's wines. I am just saying that longer barrel aging is not always a good thing.
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#45 Post by billnanson » February 12th, 2014, 1:13 pm

Paul Jaouen wrote:
Howard Cooper wrote:The incentive is to bottle earlier. Wine takes up space at a winery. A lot of wineries bottle based on room - getting room for the next vintage. Also, wine evaporates some in barrel. That is why wineries top up (or add marbles or something to the barrel). So, the longer you wait to bottle, the less wine you have to sell.
The incentive should be to bottle when ready. If I recall correctly, Galloni ripped the 2009 Lignier wines for being kept in barrel too long. I have no clue about Ray's wines. I am just saying that longer barrel aging is not always a good thing.
But Kellen also told me that she felt pressured to show them, and much sooner after bottling than she wished - based on the results, she clearly should have just said no. As Ray does ;-) I never did get my mixed case of 09s, so can't make up my own mind on that...

I've drunk Ray's 2010 Corbeaux and I'm 100% sure it would have been better if he'd forced the malo a little and bottled (at least!) 6 months earlier. But it's still a good wine, and those 10s were far from bad value...
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#46 Post by Craig G » February 12th, 2014, 1:18 pm

M Champney wrote:
Craig Gleason wrote:I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.
[winner.gif] Thanks, Hal! Now, can you please open the pod bay doors, I need to move a foudre.
I can't allow you to jeopardize this mission, Mark. I'll take care of the foudre myself.
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#47 Post by scamhi » February 12th, 2014, 1:24 pm

I received a refund for the 2010 corbeaux and my case of 2011's purchased and not delivered. It took Ray Walker 3 weeks to make the wire transfer of my money plus 20%. However he did short me $30.00 on the 20%.

Good luck to everyone that is still wanting those wines. I called it.
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#48 Post by Corey N. » February 12th, 2014, 1:34 pm

scamhi wrote:I received a refund for the 2010 corbeaux and my case of 2011's purchased and not delivered. It took Ray Walker 3 weeks to make the wire transfer of my money plus 20%. However he did short me $30.00 on the 20%.

Good luck to everyone that is still wanting those wines. I called it.
Just a guess, he didn't factor in the cost of the wire.
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#49 Post by Dale Bowers » February 12th, 2014, 1:41 pm

I don't get the angst here folks. I have a case or two of 2011 burgundy on pre-order, none of which has been delivered.
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#50 Post by Peter C. » February 12th, 2014, 4:16 pm

scamhi wrote:I received a refund for the 2010 corbeaux and my case of 2011's purchased and not delivered. It took Ray Walker 3 weeks to make the wire transfer of my money plus 20%. However he did short me $30.00 on the 20%.

Good luck to everyone that is still wanting those wines. I called it.
Hopefully he delivers the Barolo, Champagne and Sauternes I ordered from him newhere
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