Dominique Laurent

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
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Brad England
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#51 Post by Brad England » July 8th, 2013, 9:16 pm

Marshall Gelb wrote:Interesting thread as I just picked up a few bottles of the '10 Chambolle Musigny "Les Fuees."

Cheers! [cheers.gif]
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Marshall, I've got an 02 Richebourg on tap for when you're here.
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#52 Post by Peter Chiu » July 9th, 2013, 5:52 am

Stuart..... [welldone.gif]

I am not a fun ( of D. Laurent.) [cheers.gif]

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#53 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » July 10th, 2013, 6:03 pm

I am not either, Peter....I'm not a fan nor a critic. I have little experience with his products, and, frankly, never saw the value he really added to the wines he bought.....I was happy to get a Maume Mazis or any one of the Chevillons' wines he's bought right from their producers.

But....I think he tried too hard to portray himself as an oak magician...and came accross as a bit of clown...which is really too bad, as I think he is probably a serious negociant...though maybe the only one who started as a pastry chef. Maybe that's why he was so flamboyant...he thought oak was his icing.

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#54 Post by S. Lancaster » July 10th, 2013, 6:36 pm

Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:I am not either, Peter....I'm not a fan nor a critic. I have little experience with his products, and, frankly, never saw the value he really added to the wines he bought.....I was happy to get a Maume Mazis or any one of the Chevillons' wines he's bought right from their producers.

But....I think he tried too hard to portray himself as an oak magician...and came accross as a bit of clown...which is really too bad, as I think he is probably a serious negociant...though maybe the only one who started as a pastry chef. Maybe that's why he was so flamboyant...he thought oak was his icing.
That is awesome! "He thought oak was his icing". Funny.
On a side note...I've never thought his wine showed an extreme amount of oak....maybe a little on the oaky side, but nothing that would make me not purchase again because of that. Oak isn't the issue...I'd generally just rather buy other producers from the same vineyards as I've never had anything close to a wow Laurent wine.
-Scott

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#55 Post by T Wills » July 10th, 2013, 6:52 pm

Why are a few of his labels black with gold lettering while most are regular white labels with black/red lettering? It seems to convey some special bottling or something. These black label bottles are also heavier, thicker glass.
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#56 Post by Robert Panzer » July 10th, 2013, 8:36 pm

The black labels with gold lettering connote particularly OLD vines, like 90+ years old, as far as I can gather.
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#57 Post by john stimson » July 10th, 2013, 9:20 pm

Per Tanzer on his forum, the white labels are often wines that represent barrels that didn't make the final cut. the VV wines are the ones to seek--I'm presuming these wine labels are not white.

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#58 Post by Fred C » July 10th, 2013, 9:22 pm

Robert Panzer wrote:The black labels with gold lettering connote particularly OLD vines, like 90+ years old, as far as I can gather.
Tried the 1999 VR Suchots with that label last year. Got it for $70 at KL. Delicious stuff with nice fruit along with sandalwood and spice aromas.

Grabbed the NSG Chaignots (regular label) for $25. Also pretty tasty and steal at that price.

Don't have much experience with DL but these two bottles reminded me of aged Meo.
Ch!3n

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#59 Post by Ian Fitzsimmons » July 11th, 2013, 8:26 am

john stimson wrote:Per Tanzer on his forum, the white labels are often wines that represent barrels that didn't make the final cut. the VV wines are the ones to seek--I'm presuming these wine labels are not white.
The man has an interesting mind, in any event.

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#60 Post by Peter Chiu » July 11th, 2013, 8:43 am

Tom Blach wrote:
Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:The guy had amazing sources for most of his cuvees. He paid high prices to the vignerons to sell him specific barrels so he could transport and "raise" them in his cellar. He did himself no favors by bragging about "200% new oak" and other chararacteristics of his elevage, as many people dismissed him as a showman. A shame, as his sources were so good and what he was doing was not enough to ruin them, as many feared.

Of course, as a result of the hype, the cost of securing portions of winemakers' most prestigious holdings, etc....his prices were often multiples of the same bottlings of those from whom he had purchased. Did he add that much value to his neigbhors' , the Chevillons' wines? I think not...nor to others. But....that was very different from making bad wines that were too stylized for their own good. I don't think he really did that...though...he inartfully rode the line between hucksterism (ie, justifying a premium for his input) and the "truth" of what he mainly did.....cherry pick great barrels by paying premium prices to the winemakers early enough to get those barrels.

I was always satisfied with Robert Chevillon's versions...and those of Bernard Maume and others....they always seemed better values to me.
You're right, Stuart, but at least on this side of the pond the wines fell so far out of favour that for a while they could be acquired extremely inexpensively at which point they were terrific value. Much confusion was caused by the use of new barrels but I think what people didn't really understand was the low sulphur/high CO2 regime. What's always impressed me particularly have been the stunning 'little' wines, including the best passetoutgrains of all, great Bourgogne, village old vine Savigny and Marsannay as well as grander village cuvees which can be a kind of quintessence. I will say that that my enthusiasm for these wines has raised eyebrows very high among the most informed burgundy lovers of my acquaintance.
Hi Tom.....thanks for your comments re confusion caused by the use of new barrels...etc..etc.

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#61 Post by Mike Grammer » July 11th, 2013, 9:34 am

When I look at my notes, I think I've decided I haven't had enough Laurent yet! :)

From last year in Cleveland

1995 Dominique Laurent Clos de la Roche

Shy at first, with some swirling, very nice chambertin-like earth, game, black cherry, light spices. Lovely refinement to this, velvet sparkles on my tongue and great purity of sweeter raspberry, good acidity, back-end of chocolate-covered hazelnut. Even some citrus after a bit. Very fine indeed, and room still to develop. 92+.


Much further back, from a blind tasting in summer, 2008

#7 Dark, dark fruit, plum & blackberries. I catch some cumin here too. Very round dans la bouche, yet peppery too. This does have the savagery of NSG and such is my guess. I'm not wrong, but I like the 1996 Dominique Laurent Nuits St. Georges villages much more than many other NSGs. As to allegations of overoak, there was ZERO of that here. This benefitted from the most air time, but I will slot it in as a tie for #4 wine.

kwa heri,

Mike
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#62 Post by Joe M » July 11th, 2013, 11:48 am

99 Mazis a few years ago was cracking.

I've also had good luck with some of his Hospices wines - Corton Cuvee Dr Peste rings a bell...96 and 99, It's been a while though.

Tom's absolutely right - you could pick them up for peanuts in London until quite recently.
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#63 Post by k s h i n » July 11th, 2013, 2:00 pm

Some of you may remember DL along with Claude Duagt were in high demand during the 90s, e.g. C Dugat Charmes was more expensive than Rousseau Chambertin. The 95 Series Rares were once highly sought after. Since then Dominique Laurent “200% new oak” wines were trashed by many and can be often found in the end bins despite his wines no longer being terribly oaky.
  • 2006 Dominique Laurent Clos Vougeot Vieilles Vignes - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Clos Vougeot Grand Cru (6/7/2013)
    Purchased from PC. Expressive nose displaying mostly fresh strawberry, strawberry rhubarb tarts, mushroom and earth. Good concentration, piercing acidity and noticeable tannins that is slightly dry at the end. There is also a slight hint of oxidative note in the background that is not bothersome. It is starting to show some secondary notes but still has ample fruits. It is a big scale wine with dominant red/strawberry fruits, a bit chunky and rustic in style. Need time. If you are looking for elegance and subtlety, this is not for you. (91 pts.)
  • 2006 Dominique Laurent Bonnes Mares - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Bonnes Mares Grand Cru (5/10/2013)
    In my visit to Roberto Conterno, he used Zalto burgundy stems and I liked it so much that I bought a few. This has to be most unique and beautiful glass. The Riedel Sommelier Burgundy is beautiful but the large opening lessens the nose intensity. Pop and poured and served in a Zalto Burgundy. This has to be the greatest Burgundy glass, focused nose, so thin resulting in ideal expression of palate and almost airy in weight.
    Absolutely stunning showing, decadent yet delicate sweet red fruits, blackberries dominate, also black cherries, earth, mushroom, spicy spices, a slight hint of sous bois and a hint of sesame/toast. There is strong presence of floral note that is beguiling. The palate shows lovely tension, precision and mineral expression. Bright acidity that is slightly discordant but not terribly bothersome and still noticeable presence of tannins. This particular bottle is showing incredibly well, displaying finesse, firmness, precision and energy. Femininity and Masculinity coexist in this wine. I highly recommend, sub $150 at auction represents a great value for a great BM. (97 pts.)
  • 2006 Dominique Laurent Bonnes Mares - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Bonnes Mares Grand Cru (9/29/2012)
    I am not much of a terroirist but it is fascinating how Bonne Mares expresses masculinity and boldness where Musigny expresses tension and incredible inner energy not unlike Batard vs Chevalier.
    This is a very good expression of Bonne Mares. It is a masculine and bold in structure yet beautifully perfumed and warm in nose. Beautifully perfumed, dark cherry, strawberry and rhubarb tart, earth, toast/oak and dark spices. The palate is firm and precise with noticeable tannins. The expression is mostly secondary and open for business with generous fruits. Perhaps it is not polished and sophisticated for a Bonne Mares. A few more years will bring additional tertiary flavor. (94 pts.)
  • 1994 Dominique Laurent Bonnes Mares - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Bonnes Mares Grand Cru (3/15/2011)
    Consistent note, perhaps slightly less intensity.
    “A pleasant surprise. Sweet raspberry jam, dry red fruit, nutmeg, cinnamon, light caramel, earl grey and finishing with slight mushroom and damp leaves note. Nice medium weight palate with intense sweet fruit and bright acidity. The fruit expression is not extremely complex, meaning not so many layers but all coming in one shot. Intense red fruit driven, sweet wine with nice palate impression. This wine is drinking incredibly well. 94 pts" (93 pts.)
Posted from CellarTracker
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#64 Post by Blair Curtis » July 11th, 2013, 2:07 pm

I am no expert on these wines, but have tried about 12-18 examples over the years. The ones I had with some age on them showed surprisingly well. In particular, I tried a horizontal of Laurent 1997s that overcame my skepticism in this instance about (a) the oak treatment, and (b) the 1997 vintage...I am still no fan of 1997 generally, but this house did well with the vintage. With age, the oak does seem to integrate in these wines.

The Laurent wines I've tried young (ie. within 5 years) have all been unflattering and oaky without exception. I have a scattered few wines from this producer and I'm aging them all and hoping for the best.

Cheers,
Blair

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#65 Post by Mike Ripley-Lotee » July 11th, 2013, 2:46 pm

Laurent used to get several wines each year from Jacky Truchot - Gev Chamb Combottes and Morey Clos Sorbes for sure.
Never seen either sold in the US. I was at a visiting a French company south of Paris ~10 years ago and we had lunch at the executive cafe.
The managing director had me pick the wine and they had a Morey St. Denis on the carte - it turned out to be 1er Cru Clos Sorbe Laurent. It
was very nice with no heavy handed oak - very Truchot like - we had two bottles and the director was really surprised they had something this good
on the carte.

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#66 Post by Peter Chiu » July 11th, 2013, 2:52 pm

Kevin Shin wrote:Some of you may remember DL along with Claude Duagt were in high demand during the 90s, e.g. C Dugat Charmes was more expensive than Rousseau Chambertin. The 95 Series Rares were once highly sought after. Since then Dominique Laurent “200% new oak” wines were trashed by many and can be often found in the end bins despite his wines no longer being terribly oaky.
  • 2006 Dominique Laurent Clos Vougeot Vieilles Vignes - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Clos Vougeot Grand Cru (6/7/2013)
    Purchased from PC. Expressive nose displaying mostly fresh strawberry, strawberry rhubarb tarts, mushroom and earth. Good concentration, piercing acidity and noticeable tannins that is slightly dry at the end. There is also a slight hint of oxidative note in the background that is not bothersome. It is starting to show some secondary notes but still has ample fruits. It is a big scale wine with dominant red/strawberry fruits, a bit chunky and rustic in style. Need time. If you are looking for elegance and subtlety, this is not for you. (91 pts.)
  • 2006 Dominique Laurent Bonnes Mares - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Bonnes Mares Grand Cru (5/10/2013)
    In my visit to Roberto Conterno, he used Zalto burgundy stems and I liked it so much that I bought a few. This has to be most unique and beautiful glass. The Riedel Sommelier Burgundy is beautiful but the large opening lessens the nose intensity. Pop and poured and served in a Zalto Burgundy. This has to be the greatest Burgundy glass, focused nose, so thin resulting in ideal expression of palate and almost airy in weight.
    Absolutely stunning showing, decadent yet delicate sweet red fruits, blackberries dominate, also black cherries, earth, mushroom, spicy spices, a slight hint of sous bois and a hint of sesame/toast. There is strong presence of floral note that is beguiling. The palate shows lovely tension, precision and mineral expression. Bright acidity that is slightly discordant but not terribly bothersome and still noticeable presence of tannins. This particular bottle is showing incredibly well, displaying finesse, firmness, precision and energy. Femininity and Masculinity coexist in this wine. I highly recommend, sub $150 at auction represents a great value for a great BM. (97 pts.)
  • 2006 Dominique Laurent Bonnes Mares - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Bonnes Mares Grand Cru (9/29/2012)
    I am not much of a terroirist but it is fascinating how Bonne Mares expresses masculinity and boldness where Musigny expresses tension and incredible inner energy not unlike Batard vs Chevalier.
    This is a very good expression of Bonne Mares. It is a masculine and bold in structure yet beautifully perfumed and warm in nose. Beautifully perfumed, dark cherry, strawberry and rhubarb tart, earth, toast/oak and dark spices. The palate is firm and precise with noticeable tannins. The expression is mostly secondary and open for business with generous fruits. Perhaps it is not polished and sophisticated for a Bonne Mares. A few more years will bring additional tertiary flavor. (94 pts.)
  • 1994 Dominique Laurent Bonnes Mares - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Bonnes Mares Grand Cru (3/15/2011)
    Consistent note, perhaps slightly less intensity.
    “A pleasant surprise. Sweet raspberry jam, dry red fruit, nutmeg, cinnamon, light caramel, earl grey and finishing with slight mushroom and damp leaves note. Nice medium weight palate with intense sweet fruit and bright acidity. The fruit expression is not extremely complex, meaning not so many layers but all coming in one shot. Intense red fruit driven, sweet wine with nice palate impression. This wine is drinking incredibly well. 94 pts" (93 pts.)
Posted from CellarTracker

Kevin - thanks for posting the TNs, specially a 1994 red Burgundy.

I have been posting here for the last few years of my love towards LT 94 ( which was on fire-sale by LCBO ).

Producers, producers and producers. [cheers.gif]

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#67 Post by Mike Grammer » July 15th, 2013, 7:47 am

Fine notes, Kevin, para usuel, and you've intrigued me with your thoughts on the Zalto glass--I've never tried one of those (I do have the Riedel Somms)....looks like I need to expand my education in that field.

Sante,

Mike
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#68 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » July 16th, 2013, 4:56 am

Not Kevin (obviously), but time to "expand" , Mike. They are terrific.

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#69 Post by Mike Grammer » July 16th, 2013, 7:32 am

Done---I'll start searching right away. Thanks for the additional commendation, Stuart.
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#70 Post by Robert Grenley » July 16th, 2013, 7:36 am

Had the 1999 Laurent Clos Vougeot last weekend. Although lots of concentrated fruit, it was somewhat advanced and a bit chunky or foursquare and the fruit had more of a "compote" character with not enough balancing acidity to keep it fresh-tasting. Surprisingly forward for a 1999 and I would not be comfortable sitting on this in the cellar for very long. Could this be the bottle, or the Laurent style coming through? I have a few other Laurent 99's and I will be trying them sooner rather than later. Maybe not a fair comparison in terms of vintage characteristics, but the 2010 Lafarge Volnay Clos des Chenes and the 2010 Jadot Clos Vougeot were both singing.
I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff.
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#71 Post by john stimson » July 16th, 2013, 9:09 pm

White label, right?

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#72 Post by Robert Grenley » July 16th, 2013, 9:51 pm

I am confused as to the white (cream?) label vs. black label. The only Bonnes Mares, Chambertin Clos de Beze, Clos de la Roche, or Grand Echezeaux (the grand crus in the stable that have been, over the years, among his most highly rated...please note i said "among" as this is not an exclusive list) I have ever seen all have a cream colored label with red lettering. I have had a couple black labeled wines, among them, if I remember correctly, a Gevrey premier Cru (? CSJ perhaps) and maybe a Vosne suchots or a NSG Vaucrains or something. Never understood why some had black labels and some cream colored. Never saw a black label grand cru. Someone in the know...please explain this cream vs. black distinction.
I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff.
-Bob Dylan

"...what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it."

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#73 Post by T Wills » July 17th, 2013, 5:57 am

Robert Grenley wrote:............ Never understood why some had black labels and some cream colored. Never saw a black label grand cru. Someone in the know...please explain this cream vs. black distinction.
Robert,

I have a few NSG Vaucrains and CSJ with the black label/ heavy glass and they have been awesome. I've also seen a Beaune black label and there may be others, but this is not his VV indication as someone else mentioned. He bottles many vineyards with the 'regular juice' bottles and the 'VV' juice bottles (ie, Clos de la Roche 'Tradition' and 'VV'), but they all have the cream labels. The only difference I've noticed is the VV indicated on the label.

By the way the VV bottles have always had way more complexity and life than the regular ones IMO.
Tom

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#74 Post by Robert Grenley » July 17th, 2013, 8:02 am

Still confused. Do the Tradition bottles say "Tradition" on them?
My bottles in the cellar from 1996, 1999, 2002, and 2005 of variously Bonnes Mares, Grands Echezeaux, Clos de la Roche, etc. do not say "V.V." on the label.
But weren't the Tradition wines less expensive, and were there any Grand Crus that were "Tradition", and weren't the labels white as opposed to cream-colored, or were they the same?
When I bought these wines back then, the Tanzer reviews quoted were NOT for the tradition wines, and the prices, especially for the Bonnes Mares, were high.
Or was the "V.V." only used in cases where there were versions of BOTH Tradition and VV wines made, which may not have been the case for the Grand Crus?
(I note that a bottle of 2005 Volnay Clos des Chenes said "V.V.", whereas the grand crus do not).
I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff.
-Bob Dylan

"...what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it."

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#75 Post by T Wills » July 17th, 2013, 2:47 pm

Here are a few pics of some black labels, and of the Tradition vs. VV

Of the black labels, 05 CSJ and NSG Vaucrains:
Image


Of the regular 'Tradition' vs the 'VV' Clos de la Roche:
Image
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#76 Post by Tom Blach » July 17th, 2013, 3:23 pm

It's exceptionally confusing. I think that the black labels somehow signify 'house specialities' (and incidentally are obviously meant to look like pre-war labels) and in my experience they are all exceptionally fine. The Beaune VV and the Beaune 1er cru VV wear this label and are simply sensational for what they are, indeed the village wine has been taken for Grand Cru on more than one occasion in my experience.

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#77 Post by Robert Grenley » July 17th, 2013, 5:16 pm

So should I assume that the high prices I paid back in the day for 1996, 1999, 2002, and 2005 Bonnes Mares that do NOT have the "cuvee vieilles vignes" written up there were of the Tradition line and therefore those retailers ripped me off, since the Tanzer reviews for Bonnes Mares were quoted and the price was high?
I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff.
-Bob Dylan

"...what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it."

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#78 Post by Tom Blach » July 17th, 2013, 9:32 pm

I don't think so.

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#79 Post by John J. Vachon » July 18th, 2013, 7:08 am

My bottle of both 2003 and 2005 Bonnes Mares are VV.

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#80 Post by Robert Grenley » July 18th, 2013, 8:40 am

Does that mean that if my bottles of Bonnes Mares from 1999, 2002, and 2005 do not say "cuvee vieilles vignes" in small letters on the label, they are then the lesser Tradition bottlings?
I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff.
-Bob Dylan

"...what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it."

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#81 Post by John J. Vachon » July 18th, 2013, 10:08 am

I don't know of a T BM in 2005. I had T CV and CDR in 2005. But he has so many

different bottlings in 2005 who knows.

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#82 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » July 18th, 2013, 11:24 am

This whole offshoot is a riot..... [popcorn.gif]

People bought this guy's relabeled wines....and now have no idea what they bought? [oops.gif]

Laurent is the Johnny Walker of Burgundy....(though Ray is still the Ray).....?

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#83 Post by Tom Blach » July 18th, 2013, 12:08 pm

There is also some suggestion that he bottles barrel by barrel. The critics didn't like this because they thought it invalidated their precise evaluations and stopped visiting. Laurent subsequently claimed to have started egalisage but I'm not so sure...

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#84 Post by John J. Vachon » July 18th, 2013, 2:03 pm

Stuart:

What do you mean? Relabeled?

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#85 Post by Tom Blach » July 18th, 2013, 2:56 pm

Stuart's implying that Laurent buys bottled wine, a perfectly legitimate thing for a negociant to do, but I'd be surprised if it were true.

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#86 Post by Michael Twelftree » July 18th, 2013, 8:59 pm

Translated from Tanzer site, a email response for Dominque Laurent, I hope this help but it just sounds more confusing.

The vintage old vines in 1999 did not exist! I found the old labels that time: they do not mention are the old vines, but there was only one good year and, I guarantee, it was not until 2004 that the old vintages vines were formalized on the label due to vintages tradition or special wines (custom).

In conclusion, the appearance of markings old vines has been systematic from 2004 to reverse the crafty gray market achetaitent of cheaper wines to earn more! Older vintages are retrospectively contaminated with accuracy become mandatory to counter wines created only for the French market (retail) and is reflected in the export!

I became very alert to the boundless imagination of marketers!

For closed Vougeot is different, are marked by vintage "sui generis old vines" and also closed the rock marked "intramural old vines" for a very long time and have avoided the confusion - organized confusion by exporters dishonest!
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#87 Post by Robert Grenley » July 18th, 2013, 10:10 pm

Well, that certainly clears things up once and for all!
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#88 Post by Robert Grenley » July 18th, 2013, 10:13 pm

OK, has anyone seen a Tradition wine from Laurent, which were of course much cheaper...and are the Tradition labels exactly the same cream labels in appearance (just missing the small lettering of "cuvee vieilles vignes)? or are they white? or otherwise different?

Were there Tradition wines made of Bonne Mares, for example, or Beze?
I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff.
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#89 Post by Tom Blach » July 19th, 2013, 1:08 am

It certainly used to say 'cuvee tradition' on the label, I don't think that label applied to GCs but it's all very confusing in an appropriately Burgundian manner. I've been annoyed to find wines that I've had in storage for a long time that I thought were 'VV' have said no such thing on the label but they tend to be so splendid I don't feel that I can complain.

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#90 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » July 19th, 2013, 7:21 am

Tom Blach wrote:Stuart's implying that Laurent buys bottled wine, a perfectly legitimate thing for a negociant to do, but I'd be surprised if it were true.
Thanks for interpreting my imprecise English , Tom. What I really was trying to say is that he buys already-made wines and put his own label on the bottled product, which is often the same wine as in the bottles with the producers' own labels. I have never heard of his buying bottled wine.

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#91 Post by Keith Levenberg » July 19th, 2013, 7:26 am

Robert Grenley wrote:Well, that certainly clears things up once and for all!
[rofl.gif] I do think the massive amount of due diligence necessary to figure out what the heck it is that you're buying has at least as much to do with the house's reputation as any issues with oak or the winemaking process.

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#92 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » July 19th, 2013, 8:47 am

I think it adds to the mystique...or mistake.

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#93 Post by Robert Panzer » July 19th, 2013, 11:24 am

So here's a manual translation of what Dominique replied to Tanzer, cut and paste from Tanzer's site....auto translators are useful to a degree, but in the case of Twelftree translation, it came out all confused. I've done it paragraph by paragraph.....

"Les cuvées vieilles vignes en 1999 n'existaient pas! J'ai retrouvé des vieilles étiquettes de cette époque: elles ne portent pas la mention vieilles vignes, mais il n'y a eu qu'une seule et bonne cuvée, je le garanti, ce n'est que vers 2004 que les cuvées vieilles vignes ont été formalisées sur l'etiquette pour cause de cuvées tradition, ou des cuvées spéciales (sur mesure).

The old vine cuvees didn't exist in 1999! I found some old labels from that period: they had no mention of old vines, but there was only one single good cuvee, I guarantee it, it wasn't until 2004 that the old vine cuvees were formalized on the label due to the tradition cuvees, or the cuvees speciales.

En conclusion l'apparition des marquages vieilles vignes à été systematique à partir de 2004 pour contrer des petits malins du marché gris qui achetaitent des cuvées moins chères pour gagner plus! Les plus vieux millésimes en sont retrospectivement contaminés par cette précision devenu obligatoire pour contrer des vins crée uniquement pour le marché français (grande distribution) et qui se retrouve à l'export!

In conclusion the appearance of the old vine markings has been systematic since 2004 in order to counter the clever gray marketers that bought the less expensive cuvees to make more more (money)! The oldest vintages are thus retrospectively contaminated by this distinction that has become obligatory to counteract the wines that were created uniquely for the french market (large distribution) and then made their way to the export market!

Je suis devenu trés vigilant face à l'imagination sans limite des commerçants!

I have become very vigilant faced with the unlimited imagination of marketers!

Pour le clos vougeot c'est différent, il portent la mention de cuvée "sui generis vieilles vignes" et aussi les clos de la roche portent la mention "intra muros vieilles vignes" depuis trés longtemps et ont ainsi évité la confusion--confusion organisée par des exportateurs malhonnêtes!

For the Clos Vougeot it's different, it has carried the mention about the cuvee "sui generis VV" as well as the Clos de la Roche which has carried the mention "intra muros VV" for a very long time and have thus avoided any confusion--confusion created by dishonest exporters!!
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#94 Post by Ian Fitzsimmons » July 19th, 2013, 3:32 pm

Thanks, Robert.

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#95 Post by F.Daner » March 3rd, 2014, 3:38 am

I had my first Bonne Mares last night. It was the Laurent 1999 VV and it was outstanding. After 3 hours open it was just singing. Outstanding wine. It has years to go and i hope to be able to source another to try again in 5 years or so.

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#96 Post by George Chadwick » March 3rd, 2014, 9:33 am

My surprising experience recently with Laurent is that 1999 is by far his best vintage before 2005, which I have not tried (and anything younger than that is too young for me to judge).

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#97 Post by RyanC » March 3rd, 2014, 9:52 am

I recently picked up some D. Laurent '10 Reignots VV for a song. I'm hopeful that it will be a good, inexpensive way to get some of that rarely seen vineyard in my cellar without having to pay L-B or Arnoux prices.
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#98 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » March 3rd, 2014, 11:52 am

what/how much is a "song" in this context, Ryan? just curious what someone's "song" is these days...

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#99 Post by RyanC » March 3rd, 2014, 12:03 pm

Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:what/how much is a "song" in this context, Ryan? just curious what someone's "song" is these days...
Cost me about $64/bottle. Not cheap in an absolute sense, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a cheaper Vosne 1er in '10.
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#100 Post by George Chadwick » March 3rd, 2014, 12:05 pm

Ryan if you read Tanzer you might start hunting for the Beaux Monts (sp.?). The 99 Suchots is one of my wines of 2013; the 2003 not so much (like drinking a Guinness, I got tired halfway through) and the 1996 isn't good based on one bottle.

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