Dominique Laurent

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#1 Post by dcornutt » July 6th, 2013, 4:12 pm

I had some wines today double blind from 1999 though 2006 from Dominque Laurent.
These wines were tremendous. I loved them.
No overt oak.
The wines were very red fruited and intense like DRC or Rousseau. Impressive.
Is my palate starting to go?

( I know the answer here. These wines were just darn good! )
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#2 Post by Paul Savage » July 6th, 2013, 4:15 pm

I'm a fan, though I haven't had anything more recent than '96!

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#3 Post by Jeremy Holmes » July 6th, 2013, 4:24 pm

I'm a big fan of their 96's and 99's, have not had many of the recent wines though. They tend to have an undeserved reputation as being over-oaked.
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#4 Post by jcoley3 » July 6th, 2013, 4:57 pm

Jeremy Holmes wrote:I'm a big fan of their 96's and 99's, have not had many of the recent wines though. They tend to have an undeserved reputation as being over-oaked.
Worst thing Laurent ever did was talk about his "magic barrels." The hyperbole did more damage to his wines than the actual oak regimen.
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#5 Post by Nick Ryan » July 6th, 2013, 4:58 pm

They don't appear to be imported any longer so I suppose this is all just for historical curiosity.
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#6 Post by Roger Nellans » July 6th, 2013, 5:15 pm

I've not had many Don, but those that i have had, have not been over oaked per se...
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#7 Post by Paul Savage » July 6th, 2013, 6:15 pm

I see that www.premiercru.net has some 2010s on "prearrival".

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#8 Post by MarkW » July 6th, 2013, 7:06 pm

Had a 93 Charmes a couple of months back that was excellent.
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#9 Post by Jim Cowan » July 6th, 2013, 8:37 pm

'Have a friend who is every bit as enthusiast as you about this producer.
Every once and a while we have dinner and he brings the wines - and often apologies for them.
'Glad you enjoyed - not for me.
Best, Jim

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#10 Post by G. Bienstock » July 6th, 2013, 8:39 pm

Having worked for a Laurent importer I got to taste many of his wines. 01 Grands Echezaux put a big smile on my face.

A 99 Vaucrains is in the queue in a couple of weeks while on a camping vacation.
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#11 Post by Tom Blach » July 6th, 2013, 11:19 pm

Jim Cowan wrote:'Have a friend who is every bit as enthusiast as you about this producer.
Every once and a while we have dinner and he brings the wines - and often apologies for them.
'Glad you enjoyed - not for me.
Best, Jim
That's the thing-I love his wines from bottom to top but so often when I open them for friends they don't want to show themselves. I've come to realise that the extreme high toast they can sometimes show is a reduction phenomenon and the 'Fourrier shake' can work miracles, much better than extended decanting.

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#12 Post by Robert Grenley » July 7th, 2013, 1:18 am

Interesting thread. As you know, from early on the Laurent's were rated highly by Steve Tanzer but not frequently reviewed by Burghound, Gilman, or others to any great degree. Tanzer is really the only writer I am aware of that continues to consistently review the Laurent wines, but since he does not really do retrospective tastings I am not sure what he thinks of how the highly praised wines have aged over the years. The wines have usually been well-priced, except at the highest level, and they have not held much value on the secondary market and perhaps that is why you do not see many older vintages offered. it is interesting to hear from some dedicated Burgophiles on these boards that they have been generally quite pleased with how a number of the Laurent wines are drinking now, and that, at least in their experience, the supposed "oakiness" of the wines has not been an issue.

I would love to hear from others as to their Laurent experiences.
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#13 Post by Ian Dorin » July 7th, 2013, 2:37 am

Nick Ryan wrote:They don't appear to be imported any longer so I suppose this is all just for historical curiosity.
Martin Scott brings them in for NY/NJ/CT
The issue is that there isn't much wine that comes in. We buy and sell a decent amount of wines.
The Suchots TVV is stunning, as is the Fixin Hervelets. I think only Gelin is making better Fixin.
There is also a crazy old vine Bourgogne Rouge (marked with roman numerals, it's like 1926 or 1928 planted?) that they make that is also a steal.
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#14 Post by dcornutt » July 7th, 2013, 2:40 am

The wines I had were the 99 Gevrey Chambertin Clos St Jacques, 2005 Charmes Chambertin and a 99 Corton Dr. Peste Hospice elevaged by Laurent. All were better than good.

The 05 Charmes is showing so much right now. I guess that high toast and extra oak is a way to get the 05 vintage kickstarted. The most forward 05 I have tasted. I was shocked by this one.
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#15 Post by Carlos Delpin » July 7th, 2013, 5:15 am

Their Richemone is delicious!

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#16 Post by Tom Blach » July 7th, 2013, 5:25 am

The Laurent Charmes is really outstanding, up there with the best. I've been greatly enjoying the Hospice Corton Dr. Peste 98 recently.

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#17 Post by Jim Cowan » July 7th, 2013, 6:37 am

dcornutt wrote:The wines I had were the 99 Gevrey Chambertin Clos St Jacques, 2005 Charmes Chambertin and a 99 Corton Dr. Peste Hospice elevaged by Laurent. All were better than good.

The 05 Charmes is showing so much right now. I guess that high toast and extra oak is a way to get the 05 vintage kickstarted. The most forward 05 I have tasted. I was shocked by this one.
Don,
Any idea who he bought the St. Jacques fruit from?
He does not own land there.
Best, Jim

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#18 Post by Brad England » July 7th, 2013, 6:44 am

Hi Don,
Haven't had many Laurent, but recently had the 02 Beaumonts and the 02 RSV. Loved them both, and it encouraged me to buy some 09's. Plan on opening the 02 Richebourg with some Berserkers in a couple of weeks. Will report back on that.
Looking at my notes, you and I had a 93 Mazis at Mitch's mini-Paulee.
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#19 Post by F.Daner » July 7th, 2013, 7:14 am

HDH has a few of the 05 Charmes. Going to give it a shot but will have to wait for cooler shipping weather. Pretty attractive pricing for an 05 GC. I have a feeling the style will be up my alley.
dcornutt wrote:The wines I had were the 99 Gevrey Chambertin Clos St Jacques, 2005 Charmes Chambertin and a 99 Corton Dr. Peste Hospice elevaged by Laurent. All were better than good.

The 05 Charmes is showing so much right now. I guess that high toast and extra oak is a way to get the 05 vintage kickstarted. The most forward 05 I have tasted. I was shocked by this one.
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#20 Post by C 0 R E Y M. » July 7th, 2013, 7:16 am

Jim Cowan wrote:
dcornutt wrote:The wines I had were the 99 Gevrey Chambertin Clos St Jacques, 2005 Charmes Chambertin and a 99 Corton Dr. Peste Hospice elevaged by Laurent. All were better than good.

The 05 Charmes is showing so much right now. I guess that high toast and extra oak is a way to get the 05 vintage kickstarted. The most forward 05 I have tasted. I was shocked by this one.
Don,
Any idea who he bought the St. Jacques fruit from?
He does not own land there.
Best, Jim
Probably Esmonin. Laurent and Sylvie Esmonin have been a couple for a long time.
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#21 Post by dcornutt » July 7th, 2013, 7:21 am

Jim Cowan wrote:
dcornutt wrote:The wines I had were the 99 Gevrey Chambertin Clos St Jacques, 2005 Charmes Chambertin and a 99 Corton Dr. Peste Hospice elevaged by Laurent. All were better than good.

The 05 Charmes is showing so much right now. I guess that high toast and extra oak is a way to get the 05 vintage kickstarted. The most forward 05 I have tasted. I was shocked by this one.
Don,
Any idea who he bought the St. Jacques fruit from?
He does not own land there.
Best, Jim
Jim,
I haven't the slightest idea. I know it has to be from one of the five. The above guess is probably the most educated since Dominque Laurent and Sylvie are close.
Cheers and my best to you.
Hope your wine projects are going well.
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#22 Post by Robert Panzer » July 7th, 2013, 7:30 am

Sylvie Esmonin is indeed where the Clos St Jacques comes from; his long time partner.....
Laurent only "owns" land in a few appellations, when he bought the Haegelen Jayer estate a few years ago. Otherwise, he has long term lease contracts.
I've always been a fan of the wines, strongly defending them from the "boogie man" mythic grotesque oak treatment that is purported. With age, they're gorgeous.
I put out an offer on the '11s on Berserkers over a year ago, with little to no response. If people got a chance to taste these wines, they would judge for themselves and find them chock full of substance.
I think that his rather strong personality has kept much of the press at bay. Tanzer obviously makes a point to go and visit, out of his personal long term appreciation/interest in the wines.
I think that I will have to wait until '13 to make another offering, provided that there is enough wine made......
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#23 Post by Stephen Williams » July 7th, 2013, 7:57 am

These were my (extremely positive) experiences from a tasting last year:

Bonnes Mares 1997/ 8/ 9 Dominique Laurent - I put on this mini vertical as I have quite a few Laurents and have shied away from them in recent years due to their oakiness. Served blind. All very typical of their vintages and none carrying an excessive oak signature. One of the guests thought this was a vertical of DRC GE from the 1990s which indicates how well they were received. The 97 showed beautifully from the start, with the 99 showing its breed and potential after a couple of hours. The 98 while extremely good was outflanked by its siblings
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#24 Post by Ian Fitzsimmons » July 7th, 2013, 8:15 am

I've only had his 2006 Corton, which was fine, if too young. I researched web notes about him once, and the general drift was that the wines showed very well with decent aging. I also read somewhere that the original high-oak treatment was an attempt to get around excessive SO2 as a preservative; somewhat analogous to Fourrier's bottling with C02. PC usually carries his wines about every year.

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#25 Post by Roger Nellans » July 7th, 2013, 9:39 am

To add to the data base, my notes on the few that I have had:

1997 NSG Les St Georges - 12/9/11 (tasted twice) Very big perfume of dark fruit, herbs, and floral notes. A little 'greenness' which was not bothersome . I wonder if some stems in this? One of the bottles had some VA initially, but blew off. Good depth and balance on the palate. Still sweet fruit and a nice finish with some dusty tannins still present. This should continue to improve with more bottle aging. 92 pts
2002 Mazis-Chambertin - 10/1/10 Dark color. Rustic wine. Some burg funk initially. Not a lot of fruit evident in nose, but a fair amount of oak present. There is a big void in the mid-palate. Dusty tannins on back end in so so finish. 88 pts.
Gevrey-Chambertin Estrournelles St Jacques - 12/15/09 Medium ruby with some amber on the rim. Nice nose of raspberry and earth. Medium bodied. Nice balance. Very enjoyable. 91 pts.
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#26 Post by Robert Panzer » July 7th, 2013, 9:54 am

Fwiw, most of Laurent's wines are vendange entier, aka whole cluster.
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#27 Post by John J. Vachon » July 7th, 2013, 12:47 pm

Not a big fan of Laurent's 05 Charmes(had a few). But decided to try another tonite.

Found it on the sweet side with some reduction-not for me.

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#28 Post by NickC » July 7th, 2013, 1:13 pm

had the 97 bonnes mares at ma cuisine last april, and thought it was great.
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#29 Post by paul hanna » July 7th, 2013, 5:37 pm

Glad lots have enjoyed their wines, personally I have never had one I liked, out of maybe 18-20 bottles....

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#30 Post by Keith Levenberg » July 7th, 2013, 5:42 pm

Is Laurent doing his own farming/fermentation now? My understanding from a few years back was that he was bottling mostly purchased wines.

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#31 Post by Robert Panzer » July 7th, 2013, 7:48 pm

Yes, the Domaine wines are the Haegelen Jayer vineyards. Great Clos Vougeout, adjoining the Chateau.
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#32 Post by Kevin Harvey » July 7th, 2013, 8:10 pm

Robert Panzer wrote:Yes, the Domaine wines are the Haegelen Jayer vineyards. Great Clos Vougeout, adjoining the Chateau.
The Clos Vougeot is the Laurent wine that has most impressed me. The old vine Haegelen Jayer parcel is very well located (high) and the wine can be fantastic. The '99 was our blind tasting favorite across a broad range of Clos Vougeots.
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#33 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » July 8th, 2013, 6:38 am

The guy had amazing sources for most of his cuvees. He paid high prices to the vignerons to sell him specific barrels so he could transport and "raise" them in his cellar. He did himself no favors by bragging about "200% new oak" and other chararacteristics of his elevage, as many people dismissed him as a showman. A shame, as his sources were so good and what he was doing was not enough to ruin them, as many feared.

Of course, as a result of the hype, the cost of securing portions of winemakers' most prestigious holdings, etc....his prices were often multiples of the same bottlings of those from whom he had purchased. Did he add that much value to his neigbhors' , the Chevillons' wines? I think not...nor to others. But....that was very different from making bad wines that were too stylized for their own good. I don't think he really did that...though...he inartfully rode the line between hucksterism (ie, justifying a premium for his input) and the "truth" of what he mainly did.....cherry pick great barrels by paying premium prices to the winemakers early enough to get those barrels.

I was always satisfied with Robert Chevillon's versions...and those of Bernard Maume and others....they always seemed better values to me.

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#34 Post by Kevin Harvey » July 8th, 2013, 6:54 am

That's a pretty good summary Stuart.
In a side by side I preferred the Chevillon rendition of Les St George as it showed less oak (Assuming his Les St George source was Chevillon, does anyone know?)
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#35 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » July 8th, 2013, 7:12 am

Les St. Georges, Pruliers and Vaucrains vielles vignes....all came from Chevillon at various times. In some vintages, I think, particularly with the Pruliers, Laurent bought all they had, they told me. He might have bought other things, too...there was no "standing" purchase...the guy came (in their case from a few houses away) tasted and bought.

Whether Laurent also had other sources, I don't know. I know he did for Mazy Chambertin in addition to the Maume version. I think he used to call them "A" and "B" or something equally clever.

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#36 Post by Ian Fitzsimmons » July 8th, 2013, 7:48 am

I have some 05 DL Chaignots - also Chevillon grapes?

Who does his Corton come from?

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#37 Post by Robert Panzer » July 8th, 2013, 9:52 am

In speaking w Dominique at his winery, he declared the Mazis and Clos de la Roche as "house specialties". Two cuvees of each produced each year.
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#38 Post by Tom Blach » July 8th, 2013, 9:59 am

Kevin Harvey wrote:
Robert Panzer wrote:Yes, the Domaine wines are the Haegelen Jayer vineyards. Great Clos Vougeout, adjoining the Chateau.
The Clos Vougeot is the Laurent wine that has most impressed me. The old vine Haegelen Jayer parcel is very well located (high) and the wine can be fantastic. The '99 was our blind tasting favorite across a broad range of Clos Vougeots.
There are at least three Laurent Clos Vougeots-are they all from the Haegelen-Jayer plot(s)?

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#39 Post by Robert Panzer » July 8th, 2013, 10:04 am

The Haegelen CV is now titled Sui Generis, and bottled as Laurent Pere et Fils (all domaine wines bottled that way)
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#40 Post by Tom Blach » July 8th, 2013, 10:07 am

Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:The guy had amazing sources for most of his cuvees. He paid high prices to the vignerons to sell him specific barrels so he could transport and "raise" them in his cellar. He did himself no favors by bragging about "200% new oak" and other chararacteristics of his elevage, as many people dismissed him as a showman. A shame, as his sources were so good and what he was doing was not enough to ruin them, as many feared.

Of course, as a result of the hype, the cost of securing portions of winemakers' most prestigious holdings, etc....his prices were often multiples of the same bottlings of those from whom he had purchased. Did he add that much value to his neigbhors' , the Chevillons' wines? I think not...nor to others. But....that was very different from making bad wines that were too stylized for their own good. I don't think he really did that...though...he inartfully rode the line between hucksterism (ie, justifying a premium for his input) and the "truth" of what he mainly did.....cherry pick great barrels by paying premium prices to the winemakers early enough to get those barrels.

I was always satisfied with Robert Chevillon's versions...and those of Bernard Maume and others....they always seemed better values to me.
You're right, Stuart, but at least on this side of the pond the wines fell so far out of favour that for a while they could be acquired extremely inexpensively at which point they were terrific value. Much confusion was caused by the use of new barrels but I think what people didn't really understand was the low sulphur/high CO2 regime. What's always impressed me particularly have been the stunning 'little' wines, including the best passetoutgrains of all, great Bourgogne, village old vine Savigny and Marsannay as well as grander village cuvees which can be a kind of quintessence. I will say that that my enthusiasm for these wines has raised eyebrows very high among the most informed burgundy lovers of my acquaintance.

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#41 Post by Tom Blach » July 8th, 2013, 10:08 am

Robert Panzer wrote:The Haegelen CV is now titled Sui Generis, and bottled as Laurent Pere et Fils (all domaine wines bottled that way)

Thanks Robert, presumably that applies to the historic 'sui generis' label too? I've only had the 99, a sensational wine.

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#42 Post by Robert Panzer » July 8th, 2013, 10:11 am

I can't speak to that Tom. But I would presume so .
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#43 Post by RyanC » July 8th, 2013, 10:29 am

Tom Blach wrote:
Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:The guy had amazing sources for most of his cuvees. He paid high prices to the vignerons to sell him specific barrels so he could transport and "raise" them in his cellar. He did himself no favors by bragging about "200% new oak" and other chararacteristics of his elevage, as many people dismissed him as a showman. A shame, as his sources were so good and what he was doing was not enough to ruin them, as many feared.

Of course, as a result of the hype, the cost of securing portions of winemakers' most prestigious holdings, etc....his prices were often multiples of the same bottlings of those from whom he had purchased. Did he add that much value to his neigbhors' , the Chevillons' wines? I think not...nor to others. But....that was very different from making bad wines that were too stylized for their own good. I don't think he really did that...though...he inartfully rode the line between hucksterism (ie, justifying a premium for his input) and the "truth" of what he mainly did.....cherry pick great barrels by paying premium prices to the winemakers early enough to get those barrels.

I was always satisfied with Robert Chevillon's versions...and those of Bernard Maume and others....they always seemed better values to me.
You're right, Stuart, but at least on this side of the pond the wines fell so far out of favour that for a while they could be acquired extremely inexpensively at which point they were terrific value. Much confusion was caused by the use of new barrels but I think what people didn't really understand was the low sulphur/high CO2 regime. What's always impressed me particularly have been the stunning 'little' wines, including the best passetoutgrains of all, great Bourgogne, village old vine Savigny and Marsannay as well as grander village cuvees which can be a kind of quintessence. I will say that that my enthusiasm for these wines has raised eyebrows very high among the most informed burgundy lovers of my acquaintance.
Yes, Laurent's basic Bourgogne is very good. A couple years ago I picked up a case of the Bourgogne Haute cote de Nuits from PC for $10/per, and they were really quite nice.
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#44 Post by George Chadwick » July 8th, 2013, 10:54 am

His Vougeot was terrific in 1999 and 2002. It's a bargain. I think he does more than one bottling of Vougeot, a sui generis and a vielles vignes.

I'd avoid all of his 1995's. All of them.

His Series Rares are a fun idea. A gimmick -- six bottles from a single commune in a single vintage, each from a different vineyard, with a big boy as the big gun (eg Morey: Roche; Gevry: Charmes Chamb) -- but a fun idea. One barrel (25 cases) made per wine.

I'm the guy who keeps bringing Laurent so I can apologize to Jim Cowan. I'm a fan.

I did not like his Chambolle VV 2005, a straightforward simple wine. But a few weeks ago I had the Vosne Romanee Suchots 1999 and it's in my top three wines of the year, the other two also being Burgs (Lambrays 2002 and Vogue Amoureuses 2003). OTOH Laurent's 96 Suchots was tired and green, and the 2003 starts out wonderfully then a big shot of alcohol at the end. (His 2003 Ruchottes though was almost ethereal in its floral perfume and gentle liqueur like red flavors.)

Tanzer loves, loves his recent Clos de la Roches.

I think his sources for his super-grands-crus are really special but I don't know what they are, similar to Le Moine. RSV, Musigny, and Richebourg. But priced way out of my range.

By the way, Robert, I think there was minor interest in your 2011 Laurent offering solely because at that time we were apprehensive about the vintage, with some quite negative reports. If they had been 2010's at those prices I would have bit hard.

He's very honest with Tanzer about his sources; he will tell Tanzer when he has permanently lost a source for a wine and the replacement source isn't as good. That's really unusual. He's no huckster IMO.

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RyanC
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Dominique Laurent

#45 Post by RyanC » July 8th, 2013, 11:29 am

With all the talk of how good Laurent's 1999 Clos Vougeot is, I looked it up and HDH has more than 5 cases of it offered for $115/per if anyone is interested:

http://www.hdhwine.com/retail-wine-deta ... ugeot/1678
C@ughey

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Dominique Laurent

#46 Post by Robert Panzer » July 8th, 2013, 11:29 am

I've always found it interesting the amount of pseudo misinformation about Laurent.
It's nice to co-construct a more coherent picture, good or bad.
Thanks guys.
I T B - Down to Earth Wines

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Dominique Laurent

#47 Post by Tom Blach » July 8th, 2013, 12:22 pm

AFAIK there's a non VV, a VV and a 'Sui Generis' CV 99. It would be interesting to know which is being offered.
I've had some exquisite 95s, from Marsannay to Musigny.

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Marshall Gelb
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Dominique Laurent

#48 Post by Marshall Gelb » July 8th, 2013, 1:55 pm

Interesting thread as I just picked up a few bottles of the '10 Chambolle Musigny "Les Fuees."

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John J. Vachon
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Dominique Laurent

#49 Post by John J. Vachon » July 8th, 2013, 3:48 pm

His 2002 Richebourg and Musigny were both so-so. I was very disappointed.

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Dominique Laurent

#50 Post by A Fenster » July 8th, 2013, 4:18 pm

Tom Blach wrote:
Robert Panzer wrote:The Haegelen CV is now titled Sui Generis, and bottled as Laurent Pere et Fils (all domaine wines bottled that way)

Thanks Robert, presumably that applies to the historic 'sui generis' label too? I've only had the 99, a sensational wine.

Ahh. I have a couple of bottles of the 99 "sui generis". Tried one a couple of years ago and it was wonderful. Didn't know that the bottling contained Haegelyn Jayer CdV, of which I have had the 93 and 95, both of which are excellent but still young.
Al Fenster

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