Chambertin vs. Clos de Beze - Obvious or Subtle Stylistic Differences?

I am relatively new to the Burgundy learning curve but know that both these vineyards are considered top Grand Crus, being also next to each other. But do the resultant wines differ greatly, or more subtly. Is it differing producers that makes these changes more so than soil/location within the vineyards?

I think of them as the same terroir. In fact, they may be identical: wine made exclusively from Clos de Beze grapes can be labeled Chambertin.

Others with more tasting experience may have perceived differences, but not dramatic ones is my guess. Certainly they are no where near as different from each other as either of them is from, say, Mazi or Latricieres.

I consider them to be interchangeable, with producer being the differentiator. Perhaps someone who drinks a lot of Rousseau can opine on the difference, as that is the only producer I can think of that produces top drawer versions of both.

‘Lot’ is innacurate, but I’ve had a few opportunities. Still, they are very different chez Rousseau; the Bèze in my experience always wears its oak in a more subtle fashion and seems the more complex and mineral when young. The obviously vanilla-infused Chambertin needs many more years to taste of the vineyard (for me) - so I always prefer the Bèze when young. Not many comparisons of 20-year-olds have passed my glass I’m afraid…

I can’t recall ever having the two side by side, from the same producer and same vintage. Even in that case one would have to ask if the vines were of the same age in both cases. But based on the examples I have had I do think of them as being somewhat different, similar but a bit different. Maybe it is just the different producers or different vintages I have had. I think of Beze as being a bit more stylish, Chambertin a bit deeper and more masculine, but again maybe that is just based on the random samples I have had.

I’m more of a Beze guy, although their both great. What I love about Beze is that there’s a bit more spicy complexity on the back end. Just a bit more complex to me. Chambertin can be a bit more obvious, which isn’t a bad thing. Not as different on the same lines of of Richebourg vs. RSV, but they do differ a bit along that dimension (although of course very different flavor profiles).

Cheers,
-Robert

I too seem to prefer Beze…On looking at my notes, I’ve had both from the same producer/year several times, however never at the same time. Agree perhaps the Beze has a bit more spiciness and finesse than the Chambertin. Both are great however from the good producers.

There’s a bit of difference in the soil of the two, but what I’m not sure.

We just did 96 Rousseau Beze and Chambertin side by side. Chambertin open, juicy. Beze much more closed, austere, tannic, needed much more time. More spice though.

One of the really interesting things about Burgundy, wines side by side, made in the same manner, can be so different.

man i wonder when that 96 beze will ever open up!

Having tasted them side by side during visits to Rousseau numerous times, I can definitely say there is a difference…at least between them there. Sort of “obvious” differences…without going into what they are. (I almost always prefer the Chambertin…to the usually more “feminine” Clos de Beze, but have never done a side by side of them as they’ve gotten 20 years or more on them. Waiting for an opportunity, though…to go through that exercise. But, they are both so good…that throwing them into tastings is not really my goal with them. This one is very tempting, however.

During discussions with the various Rouussea family members…it does seem that the Beze will show better earlier…so…no idea on the '96 issue, which wouldn’t be what I’d have predicted. But…if it’s typical…of its showing…it does confirm that they are very different wines/holdings Chez Rousseau, despite the legal ability of the Beze to switch names to its more famous sibling. (And, historically any time a wine has "clos " in it…it usually meant it was , hisortorically, distinct from its surroundings…whether by mere ownership…or by other criteria.

Top of the game for both sites is Rousseau. Bouchard etc do make both wines but never as profound.

I have tasted both of them side but only as young wines i.e. < 20 years. Here the Clos de Beze does have an edge as it shows more finesse; Chambertin is more towering and masculine. Having said that the 1999 Rousseau Chambertin did look distinctly feminine when we tasted it next to 1999 Chambertin from Trapet. So producer is the game changer.

You know, as long there’s 96 Chambertin to drink, I could wait.

I love Meadow’s note on the wine - “One of the greatest wines of the vintage with one of the most complex and stunning panoply of young pinot fruit aromas I have ever experienced.

Just intoxicating…totally delicious…the reason you want to drink Burgundy. And totally the experience I’ve had with the wine.

That Beze though, you can sense there is something great coming…(or at least in my head I think I can!)

Not sure if other vintages are similar in comparison. Haven’t done any others with age side by side.

I did a very comprehensive and comparative tasting 3 years ago, with 14 Chambertin and Clos de Beze each …

see here: CHAMBERTIN & CLOS DE BEZE x 28 in Graz - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

While the differences between the producers and vintages were huge, quite often the participants guessed right if it was Chambertin or CdBeze - the former were more masculine, with more dark (than red) berries and more structure - while the latter often had kind of a velvety, more elegance and more red berries, the texture was softer and more feminine …
certainly all very generally spoken … (and in many cases it was unknown if it was 100% Chambertin without Beze).

Spot on Sanjay.

Our monthly “Monday table” group tastes the Rousseau pair each vintage in a line up of the tete de cuvee. Tasted blind at this very early stage the Beze is more approachable and preferred by the table showing more fruit than the sterner Chambertin. In 20 years you suspect the ratings would swap.

Anthony.

Yes,

Agree with all of this, and this is generally how they show, with that masculine/feminine definition.

Most of the time, but not always.

I can recall once or twice them looking the other way around, adn I think it was '06 that was the last vintage to do so…

Check out Dan Bailey’s tasting note on cellar tracker for the '96 chambertin and beze that he had side by side – his experience matches Ben’s. And I had the same match-up recently (haven’t posted my tasting note for the Chambertin to cellar tracker quite yet, but you can see I compare the two in my tasting note for the beze on cellar tracker.

I wonder whether people think the Beze is problematic, ie, one of those '96 wines where the acidity was too much for the fruit level? Or…just more backward?

Like I said, though, I don’t have lots of experience with Rousseau Chambertin/Clos de Beze under 20 years old…so…I can’t argue or even be skeptical. I surely believe what is described. I’m just a little puzzled about why it is…and unwilling to open my meager holdings of them to figure it out.

stuart. regarding the fruit issue, Ive had the 96 Chambertin and the CSJ recently, and there was a ton of fruit present. So lush, but with excellent acidity. My notes state ‘wow’ on the CSJ! Unfortunately , I’ve not had the Beze.

Doesn’t seem problematic to me, just needs some time to show its best.

No indication from the bottle I had that the fruit will fade before the acid and tannin calms.

The Chambertin I’ve had twice within the past year. Both showed exactly the same, a very hedonistic wine. This was my only 96 Beze.