A friend emailed me last night. Said he’d been to a wine dinner and had some '99 Rousseau ‘Chambertin’ and ‘Beze’ and ‘CSJ’ and ‘Ruchottes’. He asked me if I knew much about this producer, and if the wines represented good ‘value’ in Burgundy.
I of course answered that I knew about Rousseau, I gave my friend some info about the domaine, the holdings, how it’s one of the most revered domaines in Burgundy, etc.
I wasn’t sure how to answer the ‘value’ question, though. While the wines are very expensive, ‘Value’ is a relative term. Relative to DRC ‘La Tache’, and Roumier ‘Bonnes Mares’, and say Leroy ‘Chambertin’, i might be willing to state that Rousseau, even in the secondary market, represents ‘Value’.
To me, Fourrier’s CSJ is a lot like Rousseau’s CSJ, so maybe Fourrier is ‘Value’ for CSJ?
I would tell them that at the exalted level in Burgundy the value idea is not really applicable.
I think roussseau is a value. Imho, the chambertin is the most consistently spectacular wine made in burgundy. Of course it is not cheap, but the best wines never are.
Yeah, I think they are good value…never seem to be bad either, very consistent.
Drinking the Fourrier and Rousseau CSJ 99s side by side a couple of weeks ago the wines appeared very different indeed, the Rousseau overwhelmed by its elevage and the Fourrier just a little vegetal though seemingly a much purer expression. I suspect that this is yet another demonstration that 99s on the whole should be left well alone.
For that vintage they were immense value - you could buy the Chambertin from cavistes in France for under €100. Those were the days…!
Until recent times, I personally (and as Tom also alludes) found the Rousseau and Fourrier CSJs very different. As a baby the Rousseau could almost seem soupy due to its oak, yet with a real impact. Fourrier, always seemed more graceful, jabbing rather than punching. I haven’t tasted any recent vintages side-by-side since Rousseau scaled the oak back a little…
In conversations like this I always find myself wondering not if a producer’s wines represent value, but which specific wines do. I think we can each answer the question independently as to if they as a group do, but I would love to hear where in the lineup others find the maximum value.
From above, my sense is the chambertain is the consensus answer.
Balla.
I agree though, I’ve never had a bottle of the chambertin that didn’t wow me. If I guess I was looking for consistency of greatness, it would be a “value” compared to the other big shot wines in burgundy
I think the real “value” in the Rousseau lineup is the Clos des Ruchottes, the Clos de la Roche, and , especially, the Mazy…which has been one of my favorite wines in Burgundy since the 1988 vintage…
IMO, the CSJ is good…but a poor “value”…and over-revered by Charles Rousseau, who was emotionally over-attached to this holding, which he added himself (his first addition to the impressive base holdings he inherited). The result is that he lavished too much oak for its relatively meager skeleton, vis a vis the two Chambertins.
Can’t compare “values” on trophy wines of Burgundy; trophies have never been my focus/interest, but…as posited, the Chambertin (and the CdBeze) are almost always great wines…and are certainly cheaper than other trophy wines…from DRC/Leroy/Vogue/Ponsot…that seem to be the focus of so much attention on WBersekers…If you buy it on its intitial sale at a store, it’s a great “value” IMO, for this sort of wine…and never disappoints (though I’m uncertain about the 1990 vintage of Chambertin.)
Well, I am pretty sure what the friend was asking was whether these really good wines were also reasonably priced, as in maybe wines that he should buy in some quantity? Ha. Haha.
I love Rousseau, the Chambertin is my favorite Burg and that is saying something. What others in this thread are discussing is whether even at ridiculous prices the Rousseau’s offer “value” in that they are so consistent. I think this is a slightly different interpretation of “value” Burgundy than what the friend is asking. If I find bottles of Rousseeu Chambertin through normal retail channels in the $450-550 range, I snap them up. When I see them offered online (never below the $1200-1500 range) I pass. This strategy netted me NO bottles of 2005 and a whopping ONE bottle of 2009. DID net a couple each of Beze and CSJ in 2009.
You know, I am not sure ANY wine is really a “value” at $500, let alone $1000plus, regardless of how consistently great it is or how well it can compare with Leroy or DRC at much higher prices. It is so easy to get sucked into paying higher and higher prices for the wines you love, but there has to be a point where it just ain’t worth it for one bottle of wine, no matter how delicious. I spend that much, and that is my particular sickness. But I am not sure it makes any sense.
I would love to see what the rest of you paid for your last bottle of recent vintage Rousseau Chambertin. I told you mine! Roughly $500 for a 2009, normal channels, one bottle, no more to be found. (Could have put together a case from various online offers at $1200-1500.)
A bit off topic but have the 10’s been released yet? Don’t they normally come on the heels of the DRC offering?
High 3s for 09. Highest paid was 600 per for 6.
Rousseau is released in the fall. Wildman used to release around now, but weather was warm during shipping and people complained, I believe. I have bought some 10s in Europe already. Getting more pricey.
I saw the wholesale prices in Seattle for the 2009’s, and the Chambertin was like $390. So either you bought it overseas, or you bought it wholesale, or your wholesale on the East coast is a lot lower than that on the West Coast.
Perhaps it would be interesting if people mentioned WHERE they bought them (not store, but USA vs Europe, or West Coast vs. East, store vs. online, etc.) just so the pricing makes more sense and can be placed into perspective.
$450 for both 09 Chambertin and Beze for me. But it was part of a Rousseau bundle that I had to buy which included some of their less highly lauded Climats. My source gets his '10s in the fall. I’m sure they will either be too expensive for me to buy or I will get offered nothing. I love Rousseau, but not at $1000+. USA source.
Fred wants the mazi, village, cdlr… Ill take the csj , chamb and cdb 
For '09, I was only successful in finding the Beze, got a 6-pack for $380 each.
For '08, paid $350 each for 6 packs of Chamb and Beze
For '07, paid $225 each for 6 packs of Chamb and Beze and $160 for 6 pack of CSJ
For '06, paid $300 for 9 Beze, got no Chamb, and $160 for a 6 pack of CSJ
For '05, from a variety of sources and prices, I averaged about $525 per for 1.5 cases of Chamb and 2 cases of Beze, and $200 for a case of CSJ
For '04, got a mixed 6 pack of Beze and Chamb for $145 per
For '03, got 9 bottles each of Chamb and Beze for $225 each
For '02, got a case each of Chamb and Beze for $212 each
For '01, got a case each of Chamb and Beze for $152 each
For '99, got 14 bottles of Chamb, average price of $212 each (prob some later purchases) and 14 bottles of CSJ for an average of $111 each
All prices are a mix of London and US prices, all prices include all costs to get the wine through the cellar door.
Unfort, all my direct suppliers are now gone, the last little bit came in '09, doubt I’ll see any in '10.
“(though I’m uncertain about the 1990 vintage of Chambertin)”
Stuart, did you mean to single out this vintage of Rousseau Chambertin as problematic? I have a few…just wondering. I don’t buy them anymore as they are beyond my normal budget.
There is value with respect to other similar wines.
There is value within the line-up from a given producer.
There is value with respect to ones discretionary spending.
I greatly appreciate the consistency, style, and quality of Rousseau: one of the best producers in the world IMO. But…to me, they are not great value.
-mark
90 Chamb and Beze were $100/b retail.
alan
Those were the days!
…and there is value now and value then 
.
Verset, Gentaz, and Truchot used to be great value…not so today.
-mark