screwcaps=CHEAP

Rick Sanford, one of the founders of Pinot Noir here in Santa Rita Valley has filed bankruptcy.
In addition to lower demand for higher priced wines, he also cites his conversion to screwcaps. He feels (in hindsight) screwcaps project the image of a cheaper wine.

I can definitely see this as a marketing issue.

That is a shame to hear. I have never had a bad wine under screw cap.

This surprises me. Where/when did he verbalized this?

also I thought it was just Alma Rosa that filed for chapter 11? Also the article does not say anywhere that Sanford said screwcaps are cheap. It was Robert Szerwo their old business manager who said it. Your original post is chock full of errors

Charlie, you are right on both counts and the original post is incorrect. It’s only Alma Rosa that has filed for Chapter 11, not Richard Sanford. And it was not Richard Sanford who made the remark about screwcaps. The article posted above makes that very clear:
Alma Rosa Winery Files for Bankruptcy

Shocking.

“[W]e could not have anticipated the loss of value of land and wine inventories as a result of the global recession of 2008, nor the low-yielding crop years that immediately followed.”

The GFC was not caused by screwcaps Philip.

Very sorry to read how this vitner’s dedication to quality has not always paid off like it should.

In regards to screwcaps, out of personal experience I posted about on here previously, I now personally consider them superior to cork but they will always face an uphill battle in terms of acceptance until the wine world is shocked by a major player in the wine world converting their high end wines to screwcap.

Can you imagine what would happen if Yquem or Petrus or Symington Estates, for example, just announced one day that all of their wines would be screwcapped from now on and forever more?

I think the ‘problem’ with screwcaps is that some consumers associate them with cheaper wine, it certainly isn’t technical. And colleagues in the restaurant business tell me that there aren’t many people who object, these days. I love them.

I thought it was an interesting statement in the article - not a direct quote, though - from former Alma Rosa business manager Robert Szerwo that screwcaps “carry the stigma of cheapness with older wine drinkers.” I’m not up of studies of this - is there a greater acceptance of screwcaps by younger wine consumers and more resistance to them by older ones?

quote]
I thought it was an interesting statement in the article - not a direct quote, though - from former Alma Rosa business manager Robert Szerwo that screwcaps “carry the stigma of cheapness with older wine drinkers.” I’m not up of studies of this - is there a greater acceptance of screwcaps by younger wine consumers and more resistance to them by older ones?[/quote]

I find it an interesting assumption as well. First let me say that I personally prefer corks, but that has nothing to do with what follows. I like my corks and though ultra sensitive to TCA, I have very rarely opened a bottle from my cellar that was so tainted (3 times in 15 years). Maybe I have just been super lucky. I am not to the point of anti-screwcap. I feel that they will continue to improve to the point that all negative evidence will disappear.

If I try to reason Robert Szerwo’s comment to being correct it would follow these lines.

We drop out the 5% (us) that buy and store wine to drink after aging. Of the remaining 95% we will look at the older (47+ years of age) 50% or so and figure that virtually none of these people has ever had to endure a “corked” or oxidized bottle of wine that (they know of). Why would they see or care about any advantage of screwcaps over corks. To them wine is wine and invariably when the order a bottle it is about what they expect.

Now add to that the true history of screwcaps (used on very very low end product that was usually kept in a brown bag while being consummed) and there could easily be a detectable bias against screwcaps form this older group of consumers.

I find it an interesting assumption as well. First let me say that I personally prefer corks, but that has nothing to do with what follows. I like my corks and though ultra sensitive to TCA, I have very rarely opened a bottle from my cellar that was so tainted (3 times in 15 years). Maybe I have just been super lucky. I am not to the point of anti-screwcap. I feel that they will continue to improve to the point that all negative evidence will disappear.

If I try to reason Robert Szerwo’s comment to being correct it would follow these lines.

We drop out the 5% (us) that buy and store wine to drink after aging. Of the remaining 95% we will look at the older (47+ years of age) 50% or so and figure that virtually none of these people has ever had to endure a “corked” or oxidized bottle of wine that (they know of). Why would they see or care about any advantage of screwcaps over corks. To them wine is wine and invariably when the order a bottle it is about what they expect.

Now add to that the true history of screwcaps (used on very very low end product that was usually kept in a brown bag while being consummed) and there could easily be a detectable bias against screwcaps form this older group of consumers.

[/quote]

Times change so should attitudes.

Alma Rosa certainly wasn’t aiming for the highest priced/highest scored wines, but even at the $25-$50 range I think wineries are getting into that luxury good realm. Grocery store buyers are asking “why does the cost way more than my Apothic Red or Barefoot Moscato” while high end collectors are asking “why isn’t this 95+ points and in an awkwardly large bottle with wax seal and potentially destructive cork closer?”

So once you get near that Veblen good realm, logic flies out the window. Higher price = higher demand. Fault-prone closure = the way to do high end wine. Sometimes I think that the fact that corks cause both TCA infection and prem-ox (when the seal is not ideal) is a feature to collectors because it makes it even more costly to collect. One needs a case or more to age because cork-induced attrition wipes out a good number of bottles. The random factor is somehow romantic, and it keeps the non-ballers out of the bottle aging game to boot.

Just anecdotally, at my local shop/restaurant the wine director was commenting how he wanted an importer to bring in Stelvin closure wines. But the importer was probably not going to do it because they don’t sell as well. Clearly there is an anti-stelvin closure bias involved here. I forget what exactly we were talking about, but probably it was Piedmont Nebbiolo of some kind given I was there to pick up some Coste della Sesia wines.

Can you imagine Barolo collectors accepting Stelvin closures as an option? I can’t.

Agreed. Unfortunately, that paragraph is poorly written.

“Everybody drank down a little bit.” Noting the price of land and labor in California, Szerwo said it’s hard to pinpoint any single decision that doomed Alma Rosa. One emblematic decision, however, was to use screw-top bottles which are environmentally friendly and store better but carry the stigma of cheapness with older wine drinkers.

While I assume it was Szerwo who made this final comment, we can only assume - since the author’s lack of any clear attribution almost makes the comment sound editorial. It clearly wasn’t Richard Sanford, though.

Not much to add but I think the “bias” against screwcaps is in the head of the creditor, not the customer. Didn’t Plumpjack demonstrate that a long time ago, when they put 1/2 of their $100 wine in cork and 1/2 in screwcap and there was no shunning of one in favor of the other?

People who are going to spend money for a bottle of wine should know that there’s no “stigma” attached to a screwcap. Although I’d be kind of interested to know if there’s a dif at the $25 range, which isn’t really high-end but it’s not the $5 bottom either.

In any event, I don’t think the closure had anything at all to do with the bankruptcy. He sold his original winery in 2005. Then he opened this and three years in, gets hit with the recession. Maybe he would have survived, but given that he didn’t survive the last time, maybe it’s his management skills? And that’s not a put down at all. Running a business is not the same as making great wine and it’s a skill set that most people just don’t have, otherwise everyone would be Bill Gates. It’s why people partner with others who may have different skills.

Too bad for Sanford - I always liked his wines and hope he comes out of this all right.

Maybe. But, IIRC, back in '03 he brought in investors in order to finish building the current Sanford winery. Vineyard and production disagreements with those same investors is what forced the sale. To me, it was Mondavi déjà vu all over again. I don’t think it’s the same thing this time. But, I do share your sentiment about the man and his wines.

My anecdotal experience – largely earned by seeing other customer’s behavior at wine shops I frequent – is that most folks that aren’t wine geeks associate screw caps with cheap ass wine and won’t buy it unless it’s just something to take home and drink by themselves. If they’re buying anything to take to a friend’s house or for a gift, they won’t go for the screw cap wine – no matter how good or highly recommended it is.

definitely. I bring screwcap to dinner with friends who aren’t wine geeks and I always have to ensure them that it’s good wine.

Tran,

In answer to your last question - nothing would change. Those who do not believe that screwcaps are a ‘decent’ closure would continue to discount the value of the closure, regardless and despite the quality of the juice inside . . .

Cheers