Nebbiolo climate information

I am looking for climate information in Piemonte’s Barolo/Barberesco area. There really isn’t much out there (at least in English)!

Contrary to popular belief, I have a hunch that Nebbiolo is actually a very hot weather grape. This may have lead to many New World plantings in sites that are too cool (like ours). For example, in two cases where Nebb and Cabernet have been planted side by side in CA, the Nebb ripens after the Cabernet. Searching the web, the little information that I have found is in conflict.

This characterization of the climate in San Damiano d’Asti is cool - San Damiano d'Asti, Italy Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase)
With a 61.5F mean temp from April to Oct (about the same as Bordeaux), this would support a description of a relatively cool climate.

Meanwhile, this link - Zoover.nl - Meer dan 3,8 miljoen reviews - Vind & boek je ideale vakantie
describes a much warmer profile with a mean temperature of 67.7 (more than Avignon’s 66.5)!

And then the following paper describes a 64F mean (still quite warm) - Weiterleitungshinweis

Given the altitude,it seems very likely that Barolo has low diurnal shift (difference between high and low) which means that nights are warm. This makes it possible to accumulate a lot of heat without extremely high daytime peaks. This sort of climate can be found in California at >2000 ft and within about 20 miles of the ocean.

Any and all information or thoughts are appreciated!

Try this link: Meteo Italia for Alba

Yes, it’s in Italian. But use the drop down box for commune (if you want other locations in Piedmont) and also try the clima button. Hopefully that gets you closer to what you’re looking for.

RT

I have some annual graphs of temperature and rainfall somewhere. I’ll see if i can’t dig things up. You’re pretty much right about the diurnal shift, temperatures during the summer in Alba, at least during the periods I have been there, are similar to New York’s summer temps. It get’s plenty warm, and while i think Nebbiolo does like some heat, it is late ripening and seems to reach it’s peak of quality when it just barely manages to ripen through a cool autumn. Snow flurries with grapes still on the vine were not terribly unusual in the not to distant past.

Hmmmmmm…a Pinot producer asking about Nebbiolo…hmmmmmm. He just may be onto something here.

Kevin,
I’m having dinner tonight w/ Giorgio Rivetti/LaSpinetta tonight. I’ll ask him your questions & see if he has any insight.
I’ve been following Nebbiolo in Calif from the very start, the MartinBros '82 Nebbiolo. I’ve been heavily involved in organizing NAP#1 and NAP#2.
I can send you my reports if you’d like, Kevin.
So I can offer up some thoughts. Problem is, I don’t know jack-$hit about growing grapes. So probably not much help for you. If you’d like, I can send you
NickMartin’s e-mail, as he does know something about growing Nebb, though he’s now back in Kansas (uhhhh…not exactly within 20 miles of the ocean)
That first MartinBros came from grapes from an old vnyd over in the SanJoaquinVlly. Definitely hot-climate. It spoke pretty strongly of Nebb, but more
along the lines of those from CollineNovarese/OltropoPavese. Didn’t have the strident tannins & acidity of Barolo/Barbaresco. His first Estate Nebb '86
was from EastSide Paso, out near Eberle. Pretty hot-climate but cooler than SanJoaquinVlly. Much more perfume & fragrance & elegance & balance
(hmmmm…almost sounds like PinotNoir, doesn’t it? hmmmm…). But still not like B/B (that’s a plus in my book).
There are now several Nebb plantings in TempletonGap/SantaLuciaHighlands. About 20 miles from the Pacific, but not sure of the altitude. BrianHarrington
makes a mighty fine Nebb from those grapes.
EmilioCastelli has a vnyd in GreenVlly, about 20 miles from the Pacific, but at a low altitude. Farmed by Fukuoka, ugly vnyd, very good wine.
KenMusso has Nebb up in ElDorado (> 20 miles from Pacific, but high altitude). May be the closest to low diurnal shift in Calif.
Stolpman has Nebb and some at RanchoSisquoc, but low altitude.
Pietro Buttitta (familiar name…Nicole works at Ridge…related??..don’t know) has Nebb up in ClearLake, which probably has a low diurnal cycle.

I’m assuming you’re interested in growing Nebb in SCM from the nature of your questions?? You’d not be the first. PaxMahle/AdamLee are making Nebb. Good stuff.
I would suggest that you not look to B/B for a model, but more to CollineNovarese/OltropoPavese/Valtellina as more suitable for Calif.
I’ll see what Giorgio has to say tonight. PM if you want more of my thoughts…but they’re long/boring I must warn you.
Tom

Thanks Richard. That is very helpful.

Looking at that site’s information on Barolo. It does seem quite warm. The April-Oct means of 66.2 in 2006 (warm year) and 63.2 in 2008 (cool year) are both quite warm. It seems that Nebbiolo is pretty close to Grenache in overall heat needed though it may like a lower diurnal (lower high temps) climate.

Tom,
We have tried to ripen an acre of Nebbiolo for the last two years. It hasn’t gotten even close. The numbers above would explain why. Our vineyards average about 60.5F (compared to Burgundy’s 60.0) and we don’t have nearly enough heat. If Nebb can ripen in the SC Mtns I think it would need to be in the very warmest subregions. Maybe the Big Basin or Los Gatos areas…
FWIW, Paul Draper has a couple of vines (literally) and they ripen well after Cab on Monte Bello.

While you’re at it, ask him if he can taste the oak in his Barbarescos.

Seriously, a great guy and a very enthusiastic and passionate grower and winemaker. Unfortunately, he uses way too much new oak for my tastes.

You sure?

How about any and all thoughts not originating from a high maintenance winemaker?

Kevin,

I am no expert on climate or winemaking, but I have the impression that the climate in the Langhe Hills is unusual. It is a historical fact that Nebbiolo has always ripened quite late. In fact, until the middle of the 19th Century, Barolo and Barbaresco were generally sweet wines because by the time they ripened enough and began fermentation, it would get cold enough to stop fermentation.

The Frenchman Louis Oudart was brought to Barolo by the mayor Conte di Cavour to fix this. Late in the 19th C, Domizio Cavazza was brought to Alba to start the Oenology School, but lived in Barbaresco. He is credited with making the same changes that fixed this problem in Barolo. Unfortunately, I do not know what these changes were.

My point is that it is an unusual climate which does get cold in the winter. They have had much colder and snowier weather this year than we have had in the US Northeast.

It is also true that all the best Nebbiolo sites are generally south-facing with have significant sun exposure.

That’s why I thought it was a cold weather variety. When we visited there a couple of years ago, we were told by all of the growers about the need to plant on the south slopes and we happened to be there when there was snow on the ground, so the obvious conclusion is that it’s cold there all year. I think it’s clear that it is cold in the winter, but as Kevin’s homework is showing maybe not so much during the growing season.

there’s a forum for weather geeks over here http://www.wxforum.net

they’ll be able to help. there’s probably someone that has a station located in one of the vineyards or very close by.

Tom:
You must be mistaken; I farm my own vineyard, not Mr. Fukuoka, and it’s beautiful…
E

Beauty…all in the eyes of the beholder, Emilio. Good to hear from you again.
Tom

Huh? That’s like saying I went to Moscow in summer and it was hot therefore it must be hot all-year round. I’m not expert re: nebbiolo, but know it can ripen late. Isn’t most picked in Oct in the Piedmont?

I was there the second week of October last year and all the grapes were already long gone.

Posed the question to Giorgio last night. Not much help…on avg temp or the diurnal cycle.
But the wines were (mostly) good.
Tom

We get Nebbiolo for Harrington Wines from two vineyards on the Westside of Paso Robles. Climate and soil seem well-suited to Nebbiolo there. It’s always early to bud out and late to harvest, usually mid-October but last year the last pick was 10/31. It got hit particularly hard last year with the spring frost in the Paso area - we got way less fruit than usual in 2011.

Kevin - I wonder if the model for success for nebbiolo in a region like the SCM isn’t Barolo/Barbaresco, but a cooler nebbiolo region like Gattinara or the Valtellina. They manage to get the grapes ripe there, and the Valtellina has plenty of cool mountain vineyards. And both regions produce the kind of rockhead wines you’re gunning for.

I was chatting w/ Giorgio last night on that subject, Keith. He seemed to imply that the CollineNovarese was warmer than Barolo/Barbaresco, despite being further North.
But in the Valtelline, they really struggle to ripen the grapes. To give them a boost, I think most are trained up on the pergola system. Only pergola I’ve seen in
Calif is the Caymus Pinot vnyd up on TaylorRidge, and it’s pretty expensive I understand from KurtBeitler. In the Valtelline, they often make a Surfsat by drying
the grapes on trays, a la ReciotoValpilicella. Not a good place to be growing Nebbiolo, but if you can ripen them, they’re terrific.
Tom