RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Message
Author
User avatar
Don Cornwell
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1748
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 1:24 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9051 Post by Don Cornwell »

I will respond to Mr. Levy’s principal arguments, and remind everyone of some of the absolutely false statements made in his initial post in this thread, viewtopic.php?p=2983581#p2983581 which statements he has now conveniently omitted in his second post after having been caught lying previously:
[Jef Levy:] 1. Martine Saunier wrote me that: "CONSOLIDATED NEVER IMPORTED LEROY."
This is completely false. I immediately followed up with Martine after Mr. Levy initially posted his allegations in this thread about Hart Davis Hart, Allan Frischman and former Assistant US Attorney Jason Hernandez. Martine told him that Consolidated did not import Leroy during the period that Martine was the importer for Leroy, which was from September 1987 onward.

The bottle in question, which had an import strip listing the fluid quantity as 730 ml, meaning that the bottle was imported in the 1974-77 time frame, was imported at least ten years before Martine became Leroy’s official importer. Martine Saunier did not tell Mr. Levy that Consolidated did not import the wine prior to the time period that Martine became Leroy's exclusive reporter.

Prior to 1982, Leroy and DRC were generally co-marketed in the US through the same authorized importers. Thus, if you look at the available photos on the web, you can find bottles of Leroy SA wines from vintages in the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and 70’s which bear the strip labels from the following DRC importers: Wilson-Daniels (1979 to 1982), Domaine Chandon, Lastella Importing, de Villaine & Leroy (based in NY), and Wine Marketing Ltd. (Rhode Island). You can also find myriad bottles of Leroy SA wines from the 50’s and 60’s bearing the strip labels of all of the usual gray market importers, including Wine Cellars, Ltd, Allyn & Scott (same owner as Wine Cellars, Ltd.), Atherton Wine Imports and Connoisseur Wine Imports.

On December 17, 1981, Lalou Bize Leroy and her family formed a California corporation named Leroy, Inc., which is engaged in business as an importer and distributor of wines. Leroy, Inc. was located, and still is located, in San Rafael California. Beginning in 1982, the Leroy wines were separately imported and distributed apart from DRC. Martine’s Wines became the exclusive importer in September 1987 and had the same warehouse address as Leroy, Inc. in San Rafael.

During the period from at least 1966 through 1978, Consolidated Distilled Products, based in Chicago, was one of the largest DRC importers. In 1978, Wilson-Daniels became the exclusive US importer of DRC and also imported Leroy. It is my understanding that Consolidated Distilled Products imported Leroy in addition to DRC like most of the other official DRC importers of that era, but I do not have any photographic proof of that statement other than the bottle sold by HDH to Jef Levy. There is absolutely no reason to believe, based on that strip label, that the bottle is counterfeit – and Martine Saunier never told Jef Levy otherwise.
[Jef Levy:] 2. The #1 BURGUNDY EXPERT IN THE WORLD wrote me that:

A. In the hundreds/thousands of Leroy bottles he has examined he has never seen a CONSOLIDATED strip and it is "totally incorrect"
Once again Mr. Levy purports to rely on alleged unnamed experts who supposedly told him things. There is no more reason to believe this statement is true than the clearly false statements he attributed to Martine Saunier and Lalou Bize Leroy, or his absolutely false statement that the Acker auction tag had been removed from the bottle prior to its sale to him. See below
[Jef Levy:] B. The cork does not bear any resemblance to any 1955 cork he has ever seen -- not the appropriate seepage.
This is complete BS. The cork in question matches the corks used on all of the Leroy SA bottlings prior to the 1998 vintage. As explained previously, Leroy SA never used corks branded with the vintage prior to the 1998 vintage. Instead, all of the corks, including the 1955 Chambertin, were the same generic Leroy corks. On the other hand, the counterfeit bottles of 1955 Leroy Chambertin that Mr. Levy bought from Rudy Kurniawan, did have 1955 stamped on them (incorrectly.) See below.
[Jef Levy:] C. The label looks wrong
Again, this claim is complete BS. As I pointed out in my initial response to Mr. Levy's accusations posted in this thread, the label on the bottle sold to Mr. Levy identically matches the bottle of 1955 Leroy Chambertin purchased by my friend John Tilson more than 30 years ago, which was consumed at a dinner with another friend of mine (John Brincko) in November 2015. Below that is a 1955 Mazis Chambertin from Leroy imported by Domaine Chandon (note the 730 ml tag on the strip label) purchased in the 1970s and consumed at the same dinner.

ImageImage
Bottle Mr. Levy Purchased from HDH - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bottle from John Tilson's Cellar

Image
[Jef Levy:] D. Also, with re: to cork: Martine and Bize-Leroy themselves told me that all 1955 corks were stamped 1955 in honor of Henri Leroys death that year -- it was the one exception until they began stamping the vintage on corks many years later
This is the biggest lie of all. Martine had no such conversations with Mr. Levy and neither did Lalou Bize Leroy.

This statement by Jef Levy is a complete lie at multiple levels. The most obvious falsehood in Mr. Levy’s claim about his alleged conversation with Lalou Leroy is that she told him that her father died in 1955. Lalou Leroy’s father, Henri Leroy, lived from 1894 to 1980. The Leroy website itself confirms that Henri Leroy died in 1980, not in 1955. http://www.domaine-leroy.com/homepage/ Obviously, Lalou Bize-Leroy never told Jef Levy that her father died in 1955, some 25 years before his actual death.

Nor did Ms. Leroy ever tell Jeff Levy that the 1955 vintage corks were stamped with the vintage or the vineyards. As set forth in one of my prior posts, in response to Mr. Levy’s initial claims in this thread, I contacted multiple wine critics, including two who had tasted the 1955 Leroy wines at Lalou Leroy’s celebration of her 60th anniversary of Leroy in May of 2015. No one had any recollection of such cork branding. In order to get a definitive answer about Levy’s claim that the 1955 vintage was uniquely branded with the vintage and the vineyard, Jancis Robinson wrote an email to Lalou Leroy last Friday, with a copy to me. Her email stated in relevant part:
[Jancis Robinson:] I wonder whether you could tell us whether the corks of Leroy 1955 Chambertin were branded either ‘1955’ or ‘Chambertin’?

This would be immensely helpful,

With many thanks in advance,

Jancis
Lalou Leroy responded to Jancis’ email stating, in pertinent part (in French), as follows:
[Lalou Bize-Leroy:] In the past, Maison Leroy simply put “Une mise de Leroy” on its corks. We started to mark the appellations and vintages on the corks of Maison Leroy wines with the 1998 vintage.

Very warmly,

Lalou
Lalou Bize-Leroy was sufficiently concerned about the false statements being made by Mr. Levy, and his continued prosecution of the litigation against Hart Davis Hart, that she authorized Eric Espuny from Leroy to testify at the trial that the 1955s should not have the vintage on the cork. He was also going to testify that at that time there were no national exclusives for importers so the Consolidated label was not problematic in that regard. This information from Leroy was all passed on to Jef Levy by by Allan Frischman of Hart Davis Hart, but Mr. Levy refused to accept it. By virtue of Levy's voluntary dismissal of the action, Mr. Espuny never had to testify.

In his latest revisionist history about why he was allegedly defrauded by Hart Davis Hart (despite having voluntarily dismissed his lawsuit), Mr. Levy conveniently omitted one of his initial claims about the alleged intentional fraud by Hart Davis Hart, which was as follows:
[Jef Levy:] “What’s even more interesting is that the ACKER auction sticker had been removed when I received the wine (I was only able to discover that the wine was originally purchased from Acker through private investigation), and through the admission of lawyer Jason Hernandez himself, in writing.”
Once again Mr. Levy's statement is absolutely false. If you look on the HDH website for this auction, they had three photos of this lot – the bottle from the front, an enlarged version of the primary label and the back of the bottle and back label (which also appears correct.) https://auction.hdhwine.com/lots/view/1 ... ison-leroy The photo of the back of the bottle very clearly contains the Acker sticker that Levy claims was missing.

ImageImage
Photos from the HDH Auction website [Note: I cropped these two photos from their very large size to make them usable here]

Additionally, the photos that Jef Levy took of the bottle before it was consumed, which he posted on his Acme Food and Wine blog (now conveniently removed), show the same round Acker sticker was on the back of the bottle. On the left below is one of the photos from Levy’s blog site in which the round Acker sticker is visible through the bottle. On the right below is a photo of the the same bottle when Mr. Levy brought it to New York and consumed it with John Kapon and other friends of his.

Image Image
Photo posted by Jef Levy on his Blog site - Note the round label on the rear of the bottle --------Photo taken and posted by John Kapon when the wine was consumed – Sticker is still there

Here I will posit two questions. Mr. Levy claimed in his initial post in this thread that the fact that there was an Acker sticker was on the bottle was a sign that the bottle was counterfeit. He claimed that the intentional fraud by Hart Davis consisted in part of allegedly removing that sticker and concealing it from the prospective purchasers. Obviously, the Acker Merrall sticker was never removed. If Mr. Levy believed that an Acker sticker on the bottle flagged it as a likely counterfeit, as he claimed in his initial post here, why did he proceed to consume the bottle? And why on earth was he drinking that same allegedly suspect bottle at a party with John Kapon?

Another one of Mr. Levy’s claims in his initial post was that
[Jef Levy:] “Every single wine expert at that dinner was very suspect … the wine did not taste like 55 Leroy Chambertin (which Jay and I have shared more than a dozen times)….”
As pointed in one of my prior posts viewtopic.php?p=2986964#p2986964, the reason that Jef Levy believed that the bottle he purchased from Hart Davis Hart tasted different than the 1955 Chambertin that he was familiar with is because all of the bottles that Jef Levy had previously tasted were Rudy Kurniawan counterfeits. Quoting from Peter Hellman's book, In Vino Duplicitas:
[from In Vino Duplicitas:] Word of Kurniawan's arrest disquieted collector friends who had stood by him even after his faux Ponsot stumble four years earlier. One loyalist was Jefery Levy. In 2005, Levy was planning to fly to New York to attend the fiftieth-birthday party of novelist and wine writer Jay McInerney. He wanted to gift McInerney with a rare birth-year wine that had wowed them before: 1955 Leroy Chambertin, a grand cru from one of Burgundy's most revered domaines. * * *

"I was looking for a few bottles of the 1955 Chambertin to bring to Jay, but none were for sale in the world," Levy says. "I did have the wine once with Rudy, so I called him and asked if by chance he had a bottle or two that I could buy from him direct."

"Dude, you are in luck," Kurniawan told Levy. "I have a full sealed OWC [original wooden case]. But I'm not going to sell unless you buy it all." Levy bought the case and brought a few bottles to the McInerney's party. They were "amazing." When McInerney visited Levy in Los Angeles, they drank a few more. Levy calls it "a bonding thing."

After learning of Kurniawan's arrest, Levy inspected his remaining six bottles of the 1955 Chambertin. His eye fell on a misspelling of "San Rafael," the location, just across the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco, of Domaine Leroy's importer, Martine's Wines.
According to Peter Hellman, Levy confirmed with Martine Saunier at that time that San Rafael had not been misspelled on the authentic labels imported by Martine's Wines.

Reading Jef Levy's description of the wine in his initial post, you would likely assume that the bottle from Hart Davis was not a good wine. But, quite to the contrary, Mr. Levy has admitted on social media posts that it was a great bottle. In an Instagram post by Jef Levy made in January 2020 about a "Dinner at Atomix with the usual NYC suspects, celebrating two birthdays (J mac and mrs K). Really fun night."
https://www.picterio.com/media/22221672 ... 212755436 and also https://www.picuki.com/profile/jeferylevy, Mr. Levy stated that:
[Jef Levy:] After party featured a great mag of 90 Chave, a "who knows what's in there but it's pretty dam good" bottle of 55 Leroy Chambertin in honor of j mac's birthday (I thought the 91 Leroy chambertin was real and very good).
John Kapon also separately posted about the 1955 Leroy Chambertin and rated it as a 97 point wine and a “pretty damn fine wine.”

* * * *
So Jef Levy took a bottle of 1955 Leroy Chambertin bearing an Acker Merrall sticker that Levy claimed was a red flag for a likely counterfeit to a party with the evil villain John Kapon himself in attendance. Levy and Kapon and their friends drank the bottle and allegedly all agreed that the bottle did not taste like the 1955 Leroy Chambertin they had consumed previously -- known to be Rudy Kurniawan bottles in Levy's case. (But Levy admits that the HDH bottle was a "pretty dam[n] good" wine.) He then proceeded to throw away the allegedly counterfeit bottle, and shortly thereafter asserted a claim against Hart Davis Hart. Levy's claim included a whole series of outright lies about what others in the industry had allegedly told him in order to claim that the wine was counterfeit. When his extortionate settlement demand was refused, he filed a lawsuit. When the case was called for trial, and his house of lies was collapsing, Levy voluntarily dismissed the lawsuit, just as I predicted here months ago would happen. Despite the voluntary dismissal, Mr. Levy is back here once again trying to claim that the wine was counterfeit and that HDH defrauded him.

All I can say is that in addition to his other character elements which so endeared him to viewers of Sour Grapes, based on what happened in this case, Jef Levy appears to be a pathological liar.
Last edited by Don Cornwell on April 16th, 2021, 3:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
http://www.gdeschamps.net/wiki/doku.php?id=start

JBrochu
Posts: 295
Joined: September 17th, 2020, 7:34 am
Has thanked: 90 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9052 Post by JBrochu »

That's about as brutal a virtual beatdown as you will ever see. Ouch.
J@hn

Wes Barton
Posts: 4355
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 3:54 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9053 Post by Wes Barton »

[rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif]
ITB - Useless lackey

Can't stand bloody wax capsules.

User avatar
cjsavino
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 6237
Joined: April 29th, 2010, 5:00 pm
Location: Cranford NJ
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9054 Post by cjsavino »

C00C44BC-5948-4AC2-AF6F-F22D3D56DE7F.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Chris
Image

Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8139
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 168 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9055 Post by Mark Golodetz »

JBrochu wrote: April 16th, 2021, 3:27 pm That's about as brutal a virtual beatdown as you will ever see. Ouch.
I wonder if Jeferey will make another appearance here. It may not be in his best interest.
ITB

Phil Smith
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 676
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 9:24 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9056 Post by Phil Smith »

Mark Golodetz wrote: April 16th, 2021, 4:33 pm
JBrochu wrote: April 16th, 2021, 3:27 pm That's about as brutal a virtual beatdown as you will ever see. Ouch.
I wonder if Jeferey will make another appearance here. It may not be in his best interest.
“Hollywood’s” sense of shame doesn’t appear to be particularly acute.

User avatar
Sean S y d n e y
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1467
Joined: March 1st, 2020, 3:20 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9057 Post by Sean S y d n e y »

I feel like I need a stiff drink and a cigarette after reading that.
Instagram: @seansydney

User avatar
Dale Bowers
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 4130
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 9:44 pm
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9058 Post by Dale Bowers »

Sean S y d n e y wrote: April 16th, 2021, 4:42 pm I feel like I need a stiff drink and a cigarette after reading that.
....or some astroglide.
Cheers!

User avatar
Kevin Porter
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 2978
Joined: April 29th, 2009, 11:17 am
Location: Near Philadelphia
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9059 Post by Kevin Porter »

Yeah but who has the better derogatory nickname? “Mr . Levy” versus “mentally defective wine detective “? We all know who we’d elect.

Chris Peterson
Posts: 37
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 1:19 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9060 Post by Chris Peterson »

Is there a list of all the various wineries and vintages that Rudy faked? Did he ever fake any bottles of Sine Qua Non that anybody is aware of? Thanks.

Curt Wood
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 225
Joined: June 8th, 2009, 11:41 am
Has thanked: 5 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9061 Post by Curt Wood »

The CNBC show about Rudy is being shown again this Monday the 19th at 10:00 PM.

User avatar
Don Cornwell
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1748
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 1:24 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9062 Post by Don Cornwell »

Chris Peterson wrote: April 17th, 2021, 5:05 pm Is there a list of all the various wineries and vintages that Rudy faked? Did he ever fake any bottles of Sine Qua Non that anybody is aware of? Thanks.
Chris:

There is no comprehensive list that has ever been compiled, either by the government or by Maureen or by me. As for Sine Qua Non, Rudy loved the stuff, and I'm told that yes he produced some counterfeit Sine Qua Non wines though I have never seen them.

The government did end up compiling and publishing a list of the counterfeit wine labels that they called a "representative" list of the types of counterfeit labels that they found in Rudy's house (so this is only a partial list). Nick Witman posted it back in 2014 and you will find it here: https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/v ... 5#p1560445

But as I said at the time and will now repeat here, it is a complete mistake to think that is the comprehensive list and that if your favorite wine is not on that list you're home free. https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/v ... 0#p1340040:
For those of you that think Rudy only sold a half dozen top burgundies (DRC, Jayer, Vogue, Roumier, Rousseau and Ponsot), first growth Bordeaux and a half dozen top Pomerols, I'm afraid you're going to have to adjust your thinking. Over the past couple of days I've been looking back at the lists of wine that were sold by Mr. Kurniawan and Mr. Castanos and there are a good number of other bordeaux, ranging from unclassified bottlings like Chasse-Spleen and Greysac through many of the second growths. There are also many other burgundies, and lots of different rhones, Italian wines, Spanish wines, Alsatian wines, Australian wines, Champagne, and California wines. The California wines include Screaming Eagle, Sine Qua Non, Schraeder, Scarecrow, Dalle Valle, Shafer, Araujo, Blankiet, Colgin, Pahlmeyer, Pride Mountain, Robert Foley, Dominus, Diamond Creek, Caymus, Heitz, Dunn, Chateau Montelena, Grace Family, Stag's Leap, Ridge, Phelps, Whitehall Lane and Mondavi Reserve.

Note, that I'm not telling you that I know that all of those California wines were counterfeit, but rather that Rudy sold them at auction. But if you think he only went after the top 20 or so bordeaux and burgundies, that's wishful thinking.
Obviously, some of the wines that were sold by Rudy in 2010 and 2011 were likely Rudy unloading some of his blending stock (such as the Chasse-Spleen and Greysac) in order to try to raise whatever cash he could. But on wines like Screaming Eagle, Sine Qua Non, Schraeder, Dalle Valle Maya, Scarecrow, Araujo, Colgin and others he would certainly have had the incentive to try and counterfeit them.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
http://www.gdeschamps.net/wiki/doku.php?id=start

User avatar
Victor Hong
Posts: 21197
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 1:34 pm
Location: Banana Republic of ‘Merica
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9063 Post by Victor Hong »

Victor Hong wrote: May 13th, 2020, 1:16 pm That grouse decided to taunt a hunter, not realizing from upstream posts that he uses a fact-magazined, scope-sighted bazooka.
Nothing from this encounter seems left, except burnt feathers scattering loosely in the breeze.
.
WineHunter.

User avatar
Mel Hill
Posts: 6482
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 12:56 pm
Location: Colorado
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9064 Post by Mel Hill »

Curt Wood wrote: April 17th, 2021, 5:23 pm The CNBC show about Rudy is being shown again this Monday the 19th at 10:00 PM.
IIRC, they were the first TV show to tell the Rudy story.

B Stewart
Posts: 15
Joined: March 12th, 2021, 2:56 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9065 Post by B Stewart »

So Jef Levy took a bottle of 1955 Leroy Chambertin bearing an Acker Merrall sticker that Levy claimed was a red flag for a likely counterfeit to a party with the evil villain John Kapon himself in attendance. Levy and Kapon and their friends drank the bottle and allegedly all agreed that the bottle did not taste like the 1955 Leroy Chambertin they had consumed previously -- known to be Rudy Kurniawan bottles in Levy's case. (But Levy admits that the HDH bottle was a "pretty dam[n] good" wine.) He then proceeded to throw away the allegedly counterfeit bottle, and shortly thereafter asserted a claim against Hart Davis Hart.
Mr Cornwell, is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?

To the curious incident of the bottle he sent to Hart Davis Hart.

He sent nothing to Hart Davis Hart.

That is the curious incident.

[Apologies to Arthur Conan Doyle.]

User avatar
Don Cornwell
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1748
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 1:24 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9066 Post by Don Cornwell »

B Stewart wrote: April 18th, 2021, 3:34 pm
So Jef Levy took a bottle of 1955 Leroy Chambertin bearing an Acker Merrall sticker that Levy claimed was a red flag for a likely counterfeit to a party with the evil villain John Kapon himself in attendance. Levy and Kapon and their friends drank the bottle and allegedly all agreed that the bottle did not taste like the 1955 Leroy Chambertin they had consumed previously -- known to be Rudy Kurniawan bottles in Levy's case. (But Levy admits that the HDH bottle was a "pretty dam[n] good" wine.) He then proceeded to throw away the allegedly counterfeit bottle, and shortly thereafter asserted a claim against Hart Davis Hart.
Mr Cornwell, is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?

To the curious incident of the bottle he sent to Hart Davis Hart.

He sent nothing to Hart Davis Hart.

That is the curious incident.

[Apologies to Arthur Conan Doyle.]
I believe you're misreading what I wrote. I never said that Levy sent anything to Hart Davis Hart. Jef Levy took the bottle that he bought from HDH to New York where it was consumed at an after-party following a dinner at Atomix (with John Kapon in attendance). Levy threw the bottle away and later filed a claim and a lawsuit against Hart Davis Hart.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
http://www.gdeschamps.net/wiki/doku.php?id=start

User avatar
Victor Hong
Posts: 21197
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 1:34 pm
Location: Banana Republic of ‘Merica
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9067 Post by Victor Hong »

Don Cornwell wrote: April 18th, 2021, 3:50 pm
B Stewart wrote: April 18th, 2021, 3:34 pm
So Jef Levy took a bottle of 1955 Leroy Chambertin bearing an Acker Merrall sticker that Levy claimed was a red flag for a likely counterfeit to a party with the evil villain John Kapon himself in attendance. Levy and Kapon and their friends drank the bottle and allegedly all agreed that the bottle did not taste like the 1955 Leroy Chambertin they had consumed previously -- known to be Rudy Kurniawan bottles in Levy's case. (But Levy admits that the HDH bottle was a "pretty dam[n] good" wine.) He then proceeded to throw away the allegedly counterfeit bottle, and shortly thereafter asserted a claim against Hart Davis Hart.
Mr Cornwell, is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?

To the curious incident of the bottle he sent to Hart Davis Hart.

He sent nothing to Hart Davis Hart.

That is the curious incident.

[Apologies to Arthur Conan Doyle.]
I believe you're misreading what I wrote. I never said that Levy sent anything to Hart Davis Hart. Jef Levy took the bottle that he bought from HDH to New York where it was consumed at an after-party following a dinner at Atomix (with John Kapon in attendance). Levy threw the bottle away and later filed a claim and a lawsuit against Hart Davis Hart.
Tossing the potentially central evidence would compromise his claim based on the same. He would essentially be suing on the grounds that his allegation could not be disproven. Absurd.
WineHunter.

User avatar
Don Cornwell
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1748
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 1:24 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9068 Post by Don Cornwell »

Victor Hong wrote: April 18th, 2021, 5:29 pm Tossing the potential key evidence would compromise his claim based on the same. He would essentially be suing on the grounds that his allegation could not be disproven. Absurd.
That alone, which the lawyers and the courts refer to as "spoliation of evidence" (and which can be either intentional or negligent) should have been enough to get the claim dismissed. Jef Levy, who passed the California bar exam and maintains his license to practice on "inactive status" had to know that. It is yet another reason why his crazy claim makes no sense.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
http://www.gdeschamps.net/wiki/doku.php?id=start

B Stewart
Posts: 15
Joined: March 12th, 2021, 2:56 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9069 Post by B Stewart »

Don Cornwell wrote: April 18th, 2021, 3:50 pm
B Stewart wrote: April 18th, 2021, 3:34 pm
So Jef Levy took a bottle of 1955 Leroy Chambertin bearing an Acker Merrall sticker that Levy claimed was a red flag for a likely counterfeit to a party with the evil villain John Kapon himself in attendance. Levy and Kapon and their friends drank the bottle and allegedly all agreed that the bottle did not taste like the 1955 Leroy Chambertin they had consumed previously -- known to be Rudy Kurniawan bottles in Levy's case. (But Levy admits that the HDH bottle was a "pretty dam[n] good" wine.) He then proceeded to throw away the allegedly counterfeit bottle, and shortly thereafter asserted a claim against Hart Davis Hart.
Mr Cornwell, is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?

To the curious incident of the bottle he sent to Hart Davis Hart.

He sent nothing to Hart Davis Hart.

That is the curious incident.

[Apologies to Arthur Conan Doyle.]
I believe you're misreading what I wrote. I never said that Levy sent anything to Hart Davis Hart. Jef Levy took the bottle that he bought from HDH to New York where it was consumed at an after-party following a dinner at Atomix (with John Kapon in attendance). Levy threw the bottle away and later filed a claim and a lawsuit against Hart Davis Hart.
Don,

I think I read you perfectly. Unfortunately, this reference isn't clear --

The dog that didn't bark is one of the iconic exchanges in the Sherlock Holmes stories. A prize race horse, Silver Blaze, mysteriously vanishes from his stable over night. Inspector Gregson of Scotland yard is scouring the countryside for horse thieves. Inspecting the stables, Holmes notes the presence of a dog, who was there the night Silver Blaze vanished. Gregson asks,

"Mr Holmes, is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That is the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.

Gregson is baffled, but Holmes is onto something. The dog should have barked, but didn't. Why? Because it was an inside job.

Holmes explains at the end: "I had grasped the significance of the silence of the dog, for one true inference invariably suggests others. The Simpson incident had shown me that a dog was kept in the stables, and yet, though some one had been in and had fetched out a horse, he had not barked enough to arouse the two lads in the loft. Obviously the midnight visitor was some one whom the dog knew well."

Now over to you -

The 55 Leroy should have been returned to Hart Davis Hart, but it wasn't. Why?

"Levy and Kapon and their friends drank the bottle and allegedly all agreed that the bottle did not taste like the 1955 Leroy Chambertin they had consumed previously...He then proceeded to throw away the allegedly counterfeit bottle, and shortly thereafter asserted a claim against Hart Davis Hart."

Anyway, take the compliment!

User avatar
Don Cornwell
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1748
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 1:24 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9070 Post by Don Cornwell »

B Stewart wrote: April 18th, 2021, 7:29 pm Don,

I think I read you perfectly. Unfortunately, this reference isn't clear --

The dog that didn't bark is one of the iconic exchanges in the Sherlock Holmes stories. A prize race horse, Silver Blaze, mysteriously vanishes from his stable over night. Inspector Gregson of Scotland yard is scouring the countryside for horse thieves. Inspecting the stables, Holmes notes the presence of a dog, who was there the night Silver Blaze vanished. Gregson asks,

"Mr Holmes, is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That is the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.

Gregson is baffled, but Holmes is onto something. The dog should have barked, but didn't. Why? Because it was an inside job.

Holmes explains at the end: "I had grasped the significance of the silence of the dog, for one true inference invariably suggests others. The Simpson incident had shown me that a dog was kept in the stables, and yet, though some one had been in and had fetched out a horse, he had not barked enough to arouse the two lads in the loft. Obviously the midnight visitor was some one whom the dog knew well."

Now over to you -

The 55 Leroy should have been returned to Hart Davis Hart, but it wasn't. Why?

"Levy and Kapon and their friends drank the bottle and allegedly all agreed that the bottle did not taste like the 1955 Leroy Chambertin they had consumed previously...He then proceeded to throw away the allegedly counterfeit bottle, and shortly thereafter asserted a claim against Hart Davis Hart."

Anyway, take the compliment!
Thank you for the compliment, though in my case it wasn't so profound.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
http://www.gdeschamps.net/wiki/doku.php?id=start

User avatar
Keith Levenberg
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5770
Joined: June 6th, 2009, 3:11 pm
Location: Washington, D.C.
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9071 Post by Keith Levenberg »

Don Cornwell wrote: April 17th, 2021, 6:49 pm There is no comprehensive list that has ever been compiled, either by the government or by Maureen or by me. As for Sine Qua Non, Rudy loved the stuff, and I'm told that yes he produced some counterfeit Sine Qua Non wines though I have never seen them.
Mystery of the Smucker's jam in Rudy's kitchen finally solved

User avatar
John Danza
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1566
Joined: December 4th, 2009, 12:23 pm
Location: Chicagoland
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9072 Post by John Danza »

Keith Levenberg wrote: April 19th, 2021, 8:48 am
Don Cornwell wrote: April 17th, 2021, 6:49 pm There is no comprehensive list that has ever been compiled, either by the government or by Maureen or by me. As for Sine Qua Non, Rudy loved the stuff, and I'm told that yes he produced some counterfeit Sine Qua Non wines though I have never seen them.
Mystery of the Smucker's jam in Rudy's kitchen finally solved
In the words of Larry the Cable Guy, "I don't care who you are, that's funny!" [rofl.gif]
John Danza

User avatar
Andrew A r n t f i e l d
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 353
Joined: September 7th, 2013, 10:07 am
Location: Toronto
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9073 Post by Andrew A r n t f i e l d »

Keith Levenberg wrote: April 19th, 2021, 8:48 am
Don Cornwell wrote: April 17th, 2021, 6:49 pm There is no comprehensive list that has ever been compiled, either by the government or by Maureen or by me. As for Sine Qua Non, Rudy loved the stuff, and I'm told that yes he produced some counterfeit Sine Qua Non wines though I have never seen them.
Mystery of the Smucker's jam in Rudy's kitchen finally solved
😂
IG: @arntfieldwines

User avatar
Nevin Miller
Posts: 857
Joined: June 29th, 2009, 4:21 pm
Location: Marin County
Has thanked: 8 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9074 Post by Nevin Miller »

Watched the updated version of American Greed last night. Unless I missed something, there was nothing new of substance.

User avatar
jordan whitehead
Posts: 4685
Joined: February 12th, 2009, 4:59 pm
Location: Northbrook, IL
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9075 Post by jordan whitehead »

Nevin Miller wrote: April 19th, 2021, 9:47 pm Watched the updated version of American Greed last night. Unless I missed something, there was nothing new of substance.
Only difference I saw was the notation he was deported.
www.annaswish.org

User avatar
John Morris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 18823
Joined: June 21st, 2009, 2:09 pm
Location: Gotham
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 118 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9076 Post by John Morris »

I'd heard about fake Mouton-Cadet in China, but get a load of this:

"We only listen to the end of sentences out of politeness. In life, there’s only talking and waiting to talk." — @EdwardZwick1

"But they told me there would be a hand basket."

User avatar
Mel Hill
Posts: 6482
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 12:56 pm
Location: Colorado
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9077 Post by Mel Hill »

jordan whitehead wrote: April 20th, 2021, 9:45 pm
Nevin Miller wrote: April 19th, 2021, 9:47 pm Watched the updated version of American Greed last night. Unless I missed something, there was nothing new of substance.
Only difference I saw was the notation he was deported.
Spoiler alert!

Haven't finished it yet!!!

User avatar
Nick Ellis
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 900
Joined: January 6th, 2016, 6:43 am
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9078 Post by Nick Ellis »

John Morris wrote: April 21st, 2021, 2:42 pm I'd heard about fake Mouton-Cadet in China, but get a load of this:

Those are some tight margins at $3/bottle retail.
Nick €llis

julianseersmartin
Posts: 432
Joined: February 27th, 2018, 10:16 am
Location: Santa Monica
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9079 Post by julianseersmartin »

If anyone still has doubts over Jef Levy's character, it's worth watching this quite disgusting video of him groping Bai Ling in 2015:

User avatar
Andrew A r n t f i e l d
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 353
Joined: September 7th, 2013, 10:07 am
Location: Toronto
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9080 Post by Andrew A r n t f i e l d »

julianseersmartin wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 2:47 am If anyone still has doubts over Jef Levy's character, it's worth watching this quite disgusting video of him groping Bai Ling in 2015:
Posted a little earlier in this thread.
IG: @arntfieldwines

Jürgen Steinke
Posts: 1305
Joined: September 30th, 2009, 6:28 am
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9081 Post by Jürgen Steinke »

"According to the New York Post, worried that he’d be given “the worst seat on the plane”, Kurniawan had been trying to secure the right to buy his own First Class seat on the flight out of the US."

Rudy seems to have a bit of money in his pocket left.

BTW: The judge sentenced him to pay Millions beside going into jail. Did he pay a penny back to his victims?

Dennis Borczon
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 882
Joined: January 28th, 2011, 2:46 pm
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9082 Post by Dennis Borczon »

Honestly, in this criminal family, does anyone really believe that Rudy is going to be broke when he gets back to Indonesia/HK/wherever? He has uncles who stole zillions of $$$ and he probably planned for just such a contingency (getting busted) long before the Feds came knocking at his door. Narcisstic yes, completely stupid, no. He has become a minor celebrity in the gangs he runs with, and is likely already planning his next grifter operation in the far east where he can probably bribe his way out of any further criminal charges. I really don't care much about his future activities, but I sure as hell would be suspicious of any auction wines coming out of Hong Kong in the near future that seem a little...unusual. (Like rare bottlings from DRC suddenly appearing out of thin air). Does not affect my life, the targets are likely to be wine speculators and hapless billionaires who should know better by now.

User avatar
Glenn Gallup
Posts: 232
Joined: March 12th, 2012, 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9083 Post by Glenn Gallup »

The American Greed episode about the Rudy fraud (I may be to only one who hasn’t seen it) is streaming on Peacock. Is anyone following up on the Ponsot allegation about more people being involved?
I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me.

Winston Churchill

User avatar
Victor Hong
Posts: 21197
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 1:34 pm
Location: Banana Republic of ‘Merica
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9084 Post by Victor Hong »

Jürgen Steinke wrote: April 26th, 2021, 2:46 am "According to the New York Post, worried that he’d be given “the worst seat on the plane”, Kurniawan had been trying to secure the right to buy his own First Class seat on the flight out of the US."

Rudy seems to have a bit of money in his pocket left.

BTW: The judge sentenced him to pay Millions beside going into jail. Did he pay a penny back to his victims?
He likely hired Nigerian banks to do so.
WineHunter.

User avatar
Todd F r e n c h
Site Admin
<dfn>Site Admin</dfn>
Posts: 41046
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 8:46 am
Location: San Clemente, CA
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 310 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9085 Post by Todd F r e n c h »

Moved the Acker Bourbon bit to Beer and Spirits

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=179918
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)

User avatar
AlexO
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 836
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 8:39 am
Location: Keller, TX
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9086 Post by AlexO »

1972 DRC.pdf
Was offered this bottle and noticed that Leroy sticker on a bottle of 1972. Does anyone see anything wrong with this or does it look kosher?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
_________
@lex Offutt

Alan Eden - Berserker for Life!

User avatar
Victor Hong
Posts: 21197
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 1:34 pm
Location: Banana Republic of ‘Merica
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9087 Post by Victor Hong »

AlexO wrote: May 11th, 2021, 5:39 am 1972 DRC.pdfWas offered this bottle and noticed that Leroy sticker on a bottle of 1972. Does anyone see anything wrong with this or does it look kosher?
The skewed label looks disconcerting.
Any acccompanying Burghound tasting notes? [stirthepothal.gif]

If nothing else, use it to chase down shots of Acker-sold rare whisky. Rare indeed.
WineHunter.

User avatar
Don Cornwell
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1748
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 1:24 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9088 Post by Don Cornwell »

Glenn Gallup wrote: April 27th, 2021, 2:35 pm The American Greed episode about the Rudy fraud (I may be to only one who hasn’t seen it) is streaming on Peacock. Is anyone following up on the Ponsot allegation about more people being involved?
Glenn:

Laurent never shared with anyone the alleged factual basis for his claims that others were involved, so no one could follow up on his allegations. Laurent also claimed that the Rudy's uncles and family members were not "real" family members. Again, Laurent never shared any details about his allegations.

As you may recall, there were several known unindicted co-conspirators and aiders and abettors. The first and most obvious is John Kapon of Acker Merrall. But there were others. For example, Rudy's brother, Teddy Susilo Tan, was known to be assisting Rudy from Indonesia. He provided printed labels, which were sourced from Concorde in Indonesia, as discussed at the trial. Rudy's brother Darmawan Saputra (also an alias for a famous Indonesian badminton player), who resided in Hong Kong, may have played a role as well. It is known that he received a $12 million wire payment from Rudy in 2006 from the Acker Merrall auctoin proceeds. Brother Teddy Susilo Tan received $5 million. Rudy had another brother named Andy Suryanto, who lived with Rudy and mother until 2005, when he committed suicide. After the Ponsot auction in April of 2008, Rudy had lots of assistance -- including the auction houses that either dealt directly with Rudy (i.e., Christies) or dealt with Rudy via strawmen that they knew to be acting on behalf of Rudy (i.e., Spectrum, Vanquish, Acker and, for a while, Zachys). Rudy also had the distributors and strawmen who were helping to distribute his wines -- in the US, it was Antonio Castanos and his son Brian Castanos through their company Bacchus Wines) and Marc Lazar (Domaine). Richard Brierley and Jimmy Metta (Vanquish) and others sold and distributed Rudy's wines in Europe.

Several of the people who aided and abetted Rudy, such as his brothers, were outside of the US government's jurisdiction. The government chose to make a deal with Antonio Castanos to testify against Rudy rather than charging him with a crime. Marc Lazar was not charged by the Federal government, but the City of St. Louis did later go after him for selling wine without a license and consumer fraud. These charges were later dropped by the City of St. Louis. The reason the charges were dropped was that the two undercover officers who worked on the Lazar case were also working undercover during street protests following the acquittal of a white police officer named Jason Stockley, who was accused of killing a black suspect. The two officers were among the protestors when Detective Luther Harris, who is black, was severely beaten by fellow police officers resulting in two fractured vertebrae in his neck. Five of those police officers were charged with Federal felonies. Two plead guilty and three others went to trial recently, which resulted in an acquittal of one officer and a hung jury as to the other two. Detective Harris has been unable to work since the night of the beating. The fortuitous circumstances benefited Marc Lazar greatly. The City of St. Louis dropped the criminal charges in every outstanding criminal case that the two officers (Detectives Luther Harris and Louis Naes) were responsible for, including the criminal charges against Marc Lazar.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
http://www.gdeschamps.net/wiki/doku.php?id=start

User avatar
Don Cornwell
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1748
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 1:24 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9089 Post by Don Cornwell »

AlexO wrote: May 11th, 2021, 5:39 am 1972 DRC.pdfWas offered this bottle and noticed that Leroy sticker on a bottle of 1972. Does anyone see anything wrong with this or does it look kosher?
The photograph is of such low resolution that it is essentially useless. Leroy did distribute 1972 DRC in Europe, but there were no vineyard designated capsules at the time the wines were released in 1972. The vineyard designated capsules first appeared on the 1976 vintage. It could theoretically be a late release by Leroy. This was one of the vintages in wide distribution when I first started collecting burgundy back in 1978. You could buy La Tache and Richebourg for $30 to $35 a bottle. It was floor stacked and the retailers couldn't give the stuff away. Romanee Conti was typically about $50 a bottle. I was given bottles to try of the various 1972, 1973 and 1974 DRCs by retailers who hoped I would come back and buy more. I didn't like a single one of them enough to buy them at that price. It took years for the 1972 to 1977 vintages of DRC to clear the market. I laugh my behind off now when I see the insane prices that these vintages are selling for now.

Save your money and buy something better with it.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
http://www.gdeschamps.net/wiki/doku.php?id=start

User avatar
Glenn Gallup
Posts: 232
Joined: March 12th, 2012, 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#9090 Post by Glenn Gallup »

Thanks Don.
I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me.

Winston Churchill

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”