RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

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John S
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1201 Post by John S » March 9th, 2012, 2:24 pm

More info on the evidence found on site......

http://winediarist.com/
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1202 Post by RyanC » March 9th, 2012, 2:25 pm

yeah, it seems like it wasn't just some old empties lying around


“Yesterday, the FBI searched Kurniawan’s home pursuant to a judicial search warrant and found an elaborate counterfeiting operation. The agents found and seized, among other things, the following:

• Thousands of printed wine labels to many of the most expensive wines in the world, such as Domaine de la Romanée-Conti and Chateau Petrus. A photograph of some of the labels that were seized is attached as Exhibit A.

• Hundreds of corks, foil wrappers used to cover corks, and wax used to seal corks. A photograph of some of the foil wrappers and labels is attached as Exhibit B.

• Scores of rubber stamps for vintages (years in which a wine was made), the names of wineries, and other identifying features found on wine bottles. A photograph of some of the rubber stamps is attached as Exhibit C.

• Glue, stencils, special scissors that cut paper in the particular pattern of certain wine labels.

• A mechanical device used to insert corks into wine bottles.

• Scores of bottles in the preparatory stages of being converted into counterfeit bottles, such as bottles without labels, bottles with inconsistent labeling (for example, bottles with counterfeit labels attached but some of the authentic labels still on the bottle because they had not yet been removed by Kurniawan).

• Bottles of moderately priced California wine with writing on the bottles indicating that the California wines would be used to pass as expensive Bordeaux wines.

• Bottles soaking in the kitchen sink to aid in the removal of the wine labels.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1203 Post by Todd F r e n c h » March 9th, 2012, 2:26 pm

John S wrote:More info on the evidence found on site......

http://winediarist.com/
This was apparently a large home, but he had bottles soaking in the kitchen sink? Wouldn't he have a separate room for all this activity when it nets tens and hundreds of millions of dollars?
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1204 Post by c fu » March 9th, 2012, 2:27 pm

Ryan Caughey wrote: • Bottles of moderately priced California wine with writing on the bottles indicating that the California wines would be used to pass as expensive Bordeaux wines.
oh noes. The truth is out!
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1205 Post by Lewis Dawson » March 9th, 2012, 2:27 pm

Don Cornwell wrote:I have additional news. It appears that Spectrum has been selling wines which originated from Rudy Kurniawan during the entire period that Spectrum has been conducting live wine auctions, i.e. from November 2009 to date...

Something is very, very amiss here.
Wow, what a bombshell to hear that Rudy has been "in bed" with Spectrum for so long. Don, great detective work again. I wonder if some of those instances of the same bottle #'s being sold over and over could possibly stem from Spectrum's loose definition of what is meant by the term "sold". I wonder if some of those lots were actually bought in by Spectrum, and then offered again?
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1206 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » March 9th, 2012, 2:27 pm

Barry P wrote:Maureen,

What an idea!!!

So...at FAUX, a 1937 DRC RC might go for $30. You have something like a 0.5% chance it might be real. Sort of like PowerBall. Big potential payoff, little risk, small up front tax. I like the idea!

It also might be fun to guess what he filled the bottles with! And although you could guess...you'd never know.

On a related matter, I can't believe how many people lent him money...even after he had clearly demonstrated that he couldn't pay earlier loans. Crazy.
(Something like) This has already been done, just ask Jon Rimmerman. [stirthepothal.gif]
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1207 Post by Todd F r e n c h » March 9th, 2012, 2:28 pm

Lewis Dawson wrote:
Don Cornwell wrote:I have additional news. It appears that Spectrum has been selling wines which originated from Rudy Kurniawan during the entire period that Spectrum has been conducting live wine auctions, i.e. from November 2009 to date...

Something is very, very amiss here.
Wow, what a bombshell to hear that Rudy has been "in bed" with Spectrum for so long. Don, great detective work again. I wonder if some of those instances of the same bottle #'s being sold over and over could possibly stem from Spectrum's loose definition of what is meant by the term "sold". I wonder if some of those lots were actually bought in by Spectrum, and then offered again?
How can Spectrum stay in business?
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1208 Post by dbailey » March 9th, 2012, 2:35 pm

Because, unfortunately, some people are willing to ignore all the warnings here and still buy wines from them when they think they are getting a good deal.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1209 Post by John S » March 9th, 2012, 2:36 pm

Put a fork in them, they are done.
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1210 Post by c fu » March 9th, 2012, 2:45 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
Lewis Dawson wrote:
Don Cornwell wrote:I have additional news. It appears that Spectrum has been selling wines which originated from Rudy Kurniawan during the entire period that Spectrum has been conducting live wine auctions, i.e. from November 2009 to date...

Something is very, very amiss here.
Wow, what a bombshell to hear that Rudy has been "in bed" with Spectrum for so long. Don, great detective work again. I wonder if some of those instances of the same bottle #'s being sold over and over could possibly stem from Spectrum's loose definition of what is meant by the term "sold". I wonder if some of those lots were actually bought in by Spectrum, and then offered again?
How can Spectrum stay in business?
How can Ackers stay in business!?

I still don't understand how no one gives flack to Ackers. Spectrum undeniable should get shit but so should Ackers.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1211 Post by RyanC » March 9th, 2012, 2:47 pm

you would have thought that, after the spectrum eruption, rudy would have lied low for a little. but instead he's soaking bottles in the kitchen sink

this has to be almost as big as cos buying montelena
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1212 Post by SteveC » March 9th, 2012, 2:58 pm

This is all very interesting to me. I am generally not a conspiracy theorist, but to me, this is how something like this can play out:

Suddenly a group of new wine buyers emerge that pay what, at the time seem like, exceedingly high prices for wines.

The price of certain wines goes up 20X in the course of a few months or a year.

This attracts greater interest and speculation in those said wines, leading prices to go even higher.

The volume of said wines transacting in the marketplace increases by 20X the typical amount sold in a 2-3 year period of time going back over the past 20 or 30 years.

It turns out that the frothiest buyers (ie those that got things rolling), were also the largest sellers. It also turns out that they were counterfeiting product.

Looks like a lot of people were in on this, and I don't just men Rudy and a few auction houses.

This is a counterfeit operation and a ponzi scheme rolled into one.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1213 Post by Tim McCracken » March 9th, 2012, 2:59 pm

ybarselah wrote:already tweeting..

https://twitter.com/#!/RudyFromJail
Labron James is following that twitter account. Awesome, didn't know he was a wine guy..

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1214 Post by RyanC » March 9th, 2012, 3:01 pm

Tim McCracken wrote:
ybarselah wrote:already tweeting..

https://twitter.com/#!/RudyFromJail
Labron James is following that twitter account. Awesome, didn't know he was a wine guy..
That's so cool -- and so random. The first 25 followers are 24 wine geeks and LeBron James.

EDIT: Looks like LBJ disappeared. That was weird, because I definitely saw his name there too.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1215 Post by Craig Haserot » March 9th, 2012, 3:40 pm

And oh, it gets better. He gets arrested yesterday and a magistrate judge grants him bail but stays the order through next Wednesday to give the prosecutors a chance to appeal (this is not uncommon). The appeal is heard by a district court judge. So the prosecutors write the judge earlier today urging that his bail be revoked because he's a flight risk. They mention that a conservative estimate of his sentence if convicted on all counts would be 87 to 108 months.

Ouch.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1216 Post by Tom Blach » March 9th, 2012, 3:54 pm

I wonder if there was a moment, in this career and Rodenstock's, when he realised that even the world's most renowned experts could regularly be deceived by well-made fakes? A fascinating story.

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#1217 Post by Peter Cargasacchi » March 9th, 2012, 4:03 pm

Craig Haserot wrote:And oh, it gets better. He gets arrested yesterday and a magistrate judge grants him bail but stays the order through next Wednesday to give the prosecutors a chance to appeal (this is not uncommon). The appeal is heard by a district court judge. So the prosecutors write the judge earlier today urging that his bail be revoked because he's a flight risk. They mention that a conservative estimate of his sentence if convicted on all counts would be 87 to 108 months.

Ouch.
It wouldn't surprise me if even with allegedly owing millions, he has plenty off people who would help him post bail and get out of country. I bet there's a lot of people that don't want that canary to sing.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1218 Post by Roberto Rogness » March 9th, 2012, 4:04 pm

I'd think you would also need to thrown in a few dead bottles now and then to keep up the ruse...ALL the bottles of 60 year old Pinot based wines can't be still good.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1219 Post by Lewis Dawson » March 9th, 2012, 4:06 pm

And 2 or 3% corked, LOL.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1220 Post by paul hanna » March 9th, 2012, 4:11 pm

Ryan Caughey wrote:
Tim McCracken wrote:
ybarselah wrote:already tweeting..

https://twitter.com/#!/RudyFromJail
Labron James is following that twitter account. Awesome, didn't know he was a wine guy..
That's so cool -- and so random. The first 25 followers are 24 wine geeks and LeBron James.

EDIT: Looks like LBJ disappeared. That was weird, because I definitely saw his name there too.
Nope, it's back there now....along with Acker and John K, and Zachy's....

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1221 Post by paul hanna » March 9th, 2012, 4:16 pm

Don Cornwell wrote:I have additional news. It appears that Spectrum has been selling wines which originated from Rudy Kurniawan during the entire period that Spectrum has been conducting live wine auctions, i.e. from November 2009 to date.

I have been told by multiple sources who claim to have first hand knowledge directly from Antonio Castanos and people at Spectrum that Antonio Castanos has been Spectrum’s biggest consignor since they opened their doors for wine auctions in November 2009 and that Mr. Castanos has consigned wines for all or virtually all of the Spectrum live auctions since Spectrum began operations. I have also been told that all of the wines consigned by Antonio Castanos originated from Rudy Kurniawan. This information is both by Antonio Castanos’ own admission and, as to the February 2012 auction, by Rudy Kurniawan’s own admission made within the last week (when he thought there was little chance he would be arrested). According to Mr Castanos, the management of Spectrum was at all times fully aware that the wines were sourced from Mr. Kurniawan because Mr. Castanos says he discussed it with them on multiple occasions.

I have gone through the DRC wines sold by Spectrum in their ten live auctions conducted from November 2009 through December 2011. I found 93 lots which collectively sold for more than $1.5 million which have the same discrepancies which my colleagues and I found in the lots from the February 2012 auctions plus a few new unique ones. This includes.

November 2009: 10 lots which were sold for $316,076
Spring 2010: 19 lots which sold for $199,803
Golden Month Charity Auction (May 2010): 4 lots which sold for $70,630
Summer 2010: 9 lots which sold for $91,777
Autumn 2010: 12 lots which sold for $291,549
Winter 2010 (Dec 2010): 12 lots which sold for $100,368
Spring 2011: 8 lots which sold for $57,999
Summer 2011: 8 lots which sold for $78,273
Fall 2011: 4 lots which sold for $54,671
Dec 2011: 11 lots which sold for $253,539

Again, bear in mind that I have ONLY examined the DRC lots. I think this is the proverbial tip of the iceberg, but since I started with DRC, I wanted to follow through on the same basis.

The lots in question had the same set of discrepancies as the February 2012 auction bottles, plus a few new unique ones, including ---

Incorrect (Aigu) emphasis on Proprietaire in line 2 on pre-1978 bottles

Missing (Aigu) emphasis on Romanée on the green Appellation Controlée line

Incorrect Lebègue neck labels, often with incorrect or missing emphasis marks on Lebègue and always including Ampersands whereas the real neck labels contained the word &

Another Percy Fox strip label with Sackville Street misspelled as Sackvilee (Summer 2011-Lot 611)

Allyn & Scott neck labels with Scott misspelled as “Scot” (Fall 2011, Lot 586)

Incorrect numbers of digits on the bottle numbers

Incorrect fonts on bottle numbers and/or vintage dates, including another bottle of 1945 La Tâche (Spring 2010, Lot 607) which had the identical closed 4 which appeared in Lot 132 of the February 2012 auction which does not match the 4 used on the 1945 Romanée Conti or any other 4 known to be used by DRC during the 1940’s

Vintage dates and bottle numbers that are completely misaligned or have mixed font sizes

Capsules with the vineyard-identifying information cut off or torn off the capsules in the December 2011 Hong Kong auction and all originating from “The Gold Coast Collection”

A 1962 Romanée Conti sold in at the Spring 2011 auction (Lot 514 -- sold for $7,170) where the 6 on the 1962 date on the neck label appears to have been overprinted over what appears to have originally been a 7 (i.e. 1972).

“Interdiction D’Exporter Aux USA et UK” is stamped on labels with text discrepancies, font discrepancies, color discrepancies, and/or with Produce of France simultaneously stamped in English on the labels

In addition, I've noted that many lots have been sold repeatedly by Spectrum, often in successive auctions or, perhaps alternatively, Spectrum sold multiple bottles with the same bottle numbers stamped on them.

For example, in May 2010 Spectrum conducted the "Golden Month Charity Auction" in Macau. Four lots of DRC bottles were sold-–all magnums of 1962 and 1971 Romanée Conti. But every one of those lots had bottle numbers which matched lots sold by Spectrum in the Spring 2010 auction held just one month before in April 2010 in Irvine. Compare Golden Month Charity Auction Lots 129-132 with Lots 617, 619, 623 and 624 of the Spring 2010 auction. No matter how you look at this, with only a one month separation it is quite strange.

Some of the same bottle numbers were sold three by Spectrum. For example, Spectrum sold magnums of 1971 Romanée Conti with bottle number 0990 three times: First as Lot Number 619 in the Spring 2010 auction, then as Lot 129 in the May 2010 Golden Month Charity auction, and later as Lot 677 in the Autumn 2010 live auction.

Magnums of 1971 Romanée Conti bearing bottle number 0085 were also sold by Spectrum three times: as Lot 617 in the Spring 2010 auction, as Lot 130 in the Golden Month Charity auction a month later and again as Lot 1005 in the Winter 2010 auction.

A Jeroboam of 1994 Montrachet with Jeroboam No. 00001 was sold by Spectrum three times. It was sold initially as Lot 714 in the Fall 2010 sale, then as Lot 557 in the Spring 2011 sale and again as Lot 696 in the Summer 2011 sale.

In the Spring 2010 auction a 750 ml bottle of 1962 Romanée Conti bearing bottle number 03066 was sold for $6,572. In the Summer 2010 auction a bottle having that same bottle number was offered as Lot 543, but was not sold.

Even more interesting was Lot 545 in the Summer 2010 auction – 5 bottles of 1959 Romanée Cont which sold for $26,888. THIS LOT CONTAINED TWO NUMBERED BOTTLES (03962 and 03963) THAT BORE THE SAME BOTTLE NUMBERS WHICH WERE SOLD IN THE SPECTRUM SPRING 2010 LIVE AUCTION AS LOTS 625 AND 626. However, the bottles in the Spring 2010 auction had non-original pink wax capsules at the time that they were sold. Two months later, in the Summer 2010 auction, the bottles bearing these same bottle numbers respectively had a “cut capsule” and a “slightly wrinkled” capsule. Here is the description from the catalog:

“One 3 cm; slightly nicked, slightly wrinkled capsule, DRC #07831, one 3 cm; cut capsule reveals domaine's fully branded cork, DRC #07832, one 3 cm; slightly wrinkled capsule, slightly nicked label and vintage strip, DRC #07833, one 3.5 cm, cut capsule reveals domaine's fully branded cork, DRC #03962, one 3.5 cm; slightly wrinkled capsule, DRC #03963.”

In the Autumn 2010 Live Auction another bottle of 1962 Romanée Conti with bottle number 03063 was sold for $4,182. A bottle with the same bottle number was sold as Lot 622 in the Spring auction in April 2010 and another was offered but not sold in the May 2010 Golden Month Charity Auction.

Lot 682 in that same Autumn 2010 auction was a 1961 Romanée Conti Magnum with bottle number 03866 which sold for $14,340. Another magnum with the same bottle number was previously sold as Lot 623 in the Spring 2010 auction.

Lot 1012 in the Winter 2010 auction was a magnum of 1953 Romanée Conti (bottle number 02735) which sold for $8,962. Magnums of 1953 Romanée Conti with the identical bottle number were sold as Lot 546 of the Spectrum Summer 2010 Live Auction and again later as Lot 617 in the Spring 2011 Auction. HOWEVER, the photo for Lot 546 of the Summer 2010 auction shows a bottle with a complete capsule. The photo of Lot 1012 of the Winter 2010 auction shows a bottle with the top of the capsule completely cut off. There is no photo for Lot 617 in the Spring 2011 auction.

Lots 1018 and 1019 in the Winter 2010 auction were each respectively two magnums of 1971 La Tâche and included magnum numbers 0570-0573. Magnums of 1971 La Tâche with the identical bottle numbers were sold in the immediately preceding (Autumn 2010) Spectrum auction as Lots 691 and 692.

Something is very, very amiss here.
Thanks again for this superb work Don.

"Spectrum/Vanquish: Selling millions in fake wines since 2009...."


Seriously, what a con. I can't wait to see them drawn further into all of this, if even just to see what rubbish they will now claim to attempt to clear themselves. Unfortunately, the mud will stick forever....

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1222 Post by M.Kaplan » March 9th, 2012, 4:22 pm

Last edited by M.Kaplan on March 9th, 2012, 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1223 Post by D. Wirsig » March 9th, 2012, 4:27 pm

Ryan Caughey wrote:
Tim McCracken wrote:
ybarselah wrote:already tweeting..

https://twitter.com/#!/RudyFromJail
Labron James is following that twitter account. Awesome, didn't know he was a wine guy..
Nope, it's back there now....along with Acker and John K, and Zachy's....

I think @RudyFromJail is following THEM, not the other way around...
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1224 Post by Berry Crawford » March 9th, 2012, 4:30 pm

M.Kaplan wrote:This one is my favorite
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Everyone, check you bottles of bordeaux to see if there are rubberband marks on the edges

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1225 Post by Roberto Rogness » March 9th, 2012, 4:31 pm

Immediately upon following @RudyFromJail I got this personal tweet from that account: @WineExpo my only regret in all of this was not getting more into Freisa

I'm thinking it's one of us as that's a pretty specific and hard to find thing
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RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1226 Post by cjsavino » March 9th, 2012, 4:39 pm

absolutely stunning, how many auction buyers will now go back to acker and spectrum for refunds.
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#1227 Post by Eric Anderson » March 9th, 2012, 4:40 pm

Tim McCracken wrote:
ybarselah wrote:already tweeting..

https://twitter.com/#!/RudyFromJail
Labron James is following that twitter account. Awesome, didn't know he was a wine guy..
...or, just another guy thinking/worried/concerned about his investments.

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#1228 Post by Chris Sihler » March 9th, 2012, 4:46 pm

cjsavino wrote:
absolutely stunning, how many auction buyers will now go back to acker and spectrum for refunds.
I have to believe that Spectrum is going to be a defendant in many civil suits since there was clearly so much warning before the London auction. They can probably 'claim' ignorance on auctions prior to that.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1229 Post by Nick Ryan » March 9th, 2012, 4:52 pm

There has got to be a movie script in here somewhere.

Scene 1: Cue Rudy and the "big boys" going ape over 3-star restaurant tables overloaded with ancient bottles of French wine, oblivious to the oceans of fake juice they are imbibing. Fade to Rudy at 4:00 AM, standing outside the back of the 3-star near the dumpster, furtively exchanging dollars for empties with the jaded Somm.

Scene 2: Then cut to a few days later to Rudy's house. Cue a long pan over desks, filing cabinets, kitchen sinks filled with counterfeiting material. Rudy is at a counter furiously texting requests for million-dollar loans with his left hand while Photoshopping DRC '45 labels with his right hand.

Scene 3: Cue to a bunch of gangsters holding Rudy upside down over a vat of 2-Buck Chuck, grunting "where's the money, Kurniawan?" (OK, maybe not.)
Last edited by Nick Ryan on March 9th, 2012, 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1230 Post by Josh_Pitcl » March 9th, 2012, 4:54 pm

Roberto Rogness wrote:Immediately upon following @RudyFromJail I got this personal tweet from that account: @WineExpo my only regret in all of this was not getting more into Freisa

I'm thinking it's one of us as that's a pretty specific and hard to find thing
If it is, one of you need to tweet:

"WTT: Word file with Executive pardon text and a copy of POTUS' signature for any wine you can dream up."
93:20 - May 13, 2012

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1231 Post by Berry Crawford » March 9th, 2012, 4:57 pm

Nick Ryan wrote:There has got to be a movie script in here somewhere.

Cue Rudy and the "big boys" going ape over 3-star restaurant tables overloaded with ancient bottles of French wine, oblivious to the oceans of fake juice they are imbibing. Fade to Rudy at 4:00 AM, standing outside the back of the 3-star near the dumpster, furtively exchanging dollars for empties with the jaded Somm.

Then cut to a few days later to Rudy's house. Cue a long pan over desks, filing cabinets, kitchen sinks filled with counterfeiting material. Rudy is at a counter furiously texting requests for million-dollar loans with his left hand while Photoshopping DRC '45 labels with his right hand.

Cue to a bunch of gangsters holding Rudy upside down over a vat of 2-Buck Chuck, grunting "where's the money, Kurniawan?" (OK, maybe not.)
[welldone.gif]

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1232 Post by Anthony Hall » March 9th, 2012, 5:06 pm

[resizeableimage=600,400]http://winediarist.com/wp-content/uploa ... 3/Ex-B.gif[/resizeableimage]
Seeing this just makes me feel sick. Notice all the DRC capsules that appear to be carefully twisted off intact. You wonder that there must be some sommeliers involved.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1233 Post by Lewis Dawson » March 9th, 2012, 5:24 pm

Looks bad for Acker to realize the timeline. Prior to that April 2008 sale with the Ponsot fakes, Acker had lent millions to Rudy, and only one way to get repaid... for Rudy to sell wine... which Acker is responsible for vetting. Yikes.
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#1234 Post by Harold Fong » March 9th, 2012, 5:24 pm

My first post in this fascinating thread. But seeing all those counterfeit labels there.... I really find that disgusting, and honestly feel quite sad at the same time. Those labels belong to a lot of the wines we love. How can we be sure that what we get from older vintages is the authentic thing or not? Very sad.

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#1235 Post by Eric LeVine » March 9th, 2012, 5:28 pm

You can't even begin to be sure. This looks like quite the cottage industry
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#1236 Post by Roberto Rogness » March 9th, 2012, 5:29 pm

Since when do auction houses loan money to anyone?
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#1237 Post by S Marcet » March 9th, 2012, 5:41 pm

Looking at the those photos of mostly BDX labels, it looks like Don just unveiled the tip of the iceberg with the DRC. It is sick to realize this has been going on for years.
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#1238 Post by Berry Crawford » March 9th, 2012, 5:41 pm

Roberto Rogness wrote:Since when do auction houses loan money to anyone?
I think "why" is the bigger question than "when"

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#1239 Post by Keith Levenberg » March 9th, 2012, 5:43 pm

This latest bit of news is an absolute bombshell that goes well beyond the Rudy story. This can be a devastating event for the market as a whole - confirmation that there are potentially thousands of fakes circulating of some the most in-demand labels. That makes the aftermarket for those wines practically radioactive, but even restaurant lists aren't safe - where do you think restaurants get their bottles from?

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#1240 Post by ybarselah » March 9th, 2012, 5:54 pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:This latest bit of news is an absolute bombshell that goes well beyond the Rudy story. This can be a devastating event for the market as a whole - confirmation that there are potentially thousands of fakes circulating of some the most in-demand labels. That makes the aftermarket for those wines practically radioactive, but even restaurant lists aren't safe - where do you think restaurants get their bottles from?
i don't think it's a bombshell because it's pretty clear that enough people know what was going on the entire time -- or more accurately, those that play in this game. i doubt anyone on this thread or this board has any skin in this game at all -- none of this affects us as we're not the ones buying and selling millions of dollars at auction. those that are, know about all of this.
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#1241 Post by Lewis Dawson » March 9th, 2012, 5:55 pm

Berry Crawford wrote:
Roberto Rogness wrote:Since when do auction houses loan money to anyone?
I think "why" is the bigger question than "when"
Probably came about when Rudy was the high bidder for a few million dollars of wine, then didn't have the cash to pay. So Acker lent him the money, and took a security interest in Rudy's wine, and probably much of that was stored in Acker's warehouse all along. I'm just guessing.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1242 Post by Maureen Downey » March 9th, 2012, 6:05 pm

Lewis - did you see the loan schedule? THREE $850k loans in ONE DAY.... Why a loan and not an advance against property for sale? That is industry standard. Loaning millions is not.
What was the money for that an auction house would give that kind of massive loan?
Speculation can be dangerous - but if you think about it for a few minutes the closeness of that relationship does give reason for pause, to put it mildly....

FYI - when a buyer cant pay - he defaults on the purchase and the property goes back up for sale. Auction houses do not loan money so they can be paid.
Last edited by Maureen Downey on March 9th, 2012, 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1243 Post by M.Kaplan » March 9th, 2012, 6:06 pm

ybarselah wrote:
Keith Levenberg wrote:This latest bit of news is an absolute bombshell that goes well beyond the Rudy story. This can be a devastating event for the market as a whole - confirmation that there are potentially thousands of fakes circulating of some the most in-demand labels. That makes the aftermarket for those wines practically radioactive, but even restaurant lists aren't safe - where do you think restaurants get their bottles from?
i don't think it's a bombshell because it's pretty clear that enough people know what was going on the entire time -- or more accurately, those that play in this game. i doubt anyone on this thread or this board has any skin in this game at all -- none of this affects us as we're not the ones buying and selling millions of dollars at auction. those that are, know about all of this.
Yes, what Yaacov wrote. How many of us regularly buy first growths and grand cru burgs from great years at auction or in restaurants?

And, like the recent real estate bubble-burst (with some of the same players, I might add), the participants seem to assume that they will be able to sell those wines to even bigger idiots.
Last edited by M.Kaplan on March 9th, 2012, 6:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1244 Post by Tim McCracken » March 9th, 2012, 6:07 pm

Ryan Caughey wrote:
Tim McCracken wrote:
ybarselah wrote:already tweeting..

https://twitter.com/#!/RudyFromJail
Labron James is following that twitter account. Awesome, didn't know he was a wine guy..
That's so cool -- and so random. The first 25 followers are 24 wine geeks and LeBron James.

EDIT: Looks like LBJ disappeared. That was weird, because I definitely saw his name there too.
He was definitely following the account, my bet is that he is actually watching this thread, and stopped following when I pointed it out.

If so, welcome Labron, don't be a stranger :)

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1245 Post by Tim McCracken » March 9th, 2012, 6:12 pm

holy schnikes

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1246 Post by S Marcet » March 9th, 2012, 6:29 pm

Does anyone find it odd the agreement between "california collector and Rudy" in pages 12-14. California collector new Rudy had fake bottles from two sources (somm and auction house-1) but enters an agreement to sell Rudy's wine at "international auction house" to recoup his money.
Steven

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#1247 Post by Keith Levenberg » March 9th, 2012, 6:30 pm

ybarselah wrote:
Keith Levenberg wrote:This latest bit of news is an absolute bombshell that goes well beyond the Rudy story. This can be a devastating event for the market as a whole - confirmation that there are potentially thousands of fakes circulating of some the most in-demand labels. That makes the aftermarket for those wines practically radioactive, but even restaurant lists aren't safe - where do you think restaurants get their bottles from?
i don't think it's a bombshell because it's pretty clear that enough people know what was going on the entire time -- or more accurately, those that play in this game. i doubt anyone on this thread or this board has any skin in this game at all -- none of this affects us as we're not the ones buying and selling millions of dollars at auction. those that are, know about all of this.
Not sure that's so, it depends on whether that stack of labels covered only the $10k-and-up segment or the stuff that the merely "comfortable" can afford to buy now and then. Strikes me that there's more profit to be made in selling major quantities of 1999 DRC than a few bottles here and there of 1945. Anyway, I guess we'll find out sooner or later.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1248 Post by AAgrawal » March 9th, 2012, 6:34 pm

Tim McCracken wrote:
holy schnikes
I take solace in the fact that my beloved sauternes appear to be safe... for now. Thank heavens that sauternes aren't generally worth counterfeiting.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1249 Post by M.Kaplan » March 9th, 2012, 6:35 pm

Gives new meaning to the term 'label drinkers.' Or not...
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RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#1250 Post by cjsavino » March 9th, 2012, 6:50 pm

Now would we all be that surprised to find out that an abandoned storage locker outside of Chicago belonged to him.
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