RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1001 Post by RyanC » March 8th, 2012, 3:59 pm

"Mr. Kurniawan, according to the complaint, also consigned wine that had purportedly been bottled between 1945 and 1971 from the Clos St.-Denis vineyard of Domaine Ponsot, even though the domaine did not make wine from that vineyard until 1982. The wines were later withdrawn from the auction at the request of Domaine Ponsot’s administrator.

When the administrator questioned Mr. Kurniawan about the source of the counterfeit wines, he maintained that he had obtained the bottles from someone in Asia and had given the administrator two telephone numbers for the person, according to the complaint.

But neither number led to that person or anyone else who sold wine, the complaint said; one number was for a regional Indonesian airline and the other was for a shopping mall in Jakarta."
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1002 Post by Chris Sihler » March 8th, 2012, 3:59 pm

Really amusing, especially if you go back and re-read Rob Rosania's post.

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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1003 Post by c fu » March 8th, 2012, 4:05 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:And two years from now we'll read about him being arrested again, this time for the Spectrum auctions?
I think it's two separate things. The Ponsots are 100% fake. The Spectrum wines while are incredibly dubious, it's not 100% that they are all fake. It's hard to prove fake older wine as there are so few bottles to compare it to and even most Domaines don't have exact histories of exactly what each lable looked like and if there were variations in label. The current deal is far more concrete.
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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1004 Post by Chris Seiber » March 8th, 2012, 4:10 pm

I hope Don Cornwell gets to serve as an expert witness in the trial, collects a fat fee, and uses it to buy some wines he loves. He's done a great service to the wine community.
Last edited by Chris Seiber on March 8th, 2012, 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1005 Post by Berry Crawford » March 8th, 2012, 4:13 pm

Epic. Kudos to Don.

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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1006 Post by RyanC » March 8th, 2012, 4:17 pm

As a lawyer, this case would be fun to work on. Witness interviews in Burgundy!
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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1007 Post by Poppy Davis » March 8th, 2012, 4:18 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:I hope Don Cornutt gets to serve as an expert witness in the trial, collects a fat fee, and uses it to buy some wines he loves. He's done a great service to the wine community.
I think you mean Don Cornwell.
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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1008 Post by Chris Seiber » March 8th, 2012, 4:25 pm

Who among us hasn't made that mistake?

And don't get me started on Kim Caldwell and Kim Crawford . . .

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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1009 Post by Todd F r e n c h » March 8th, 2012, 4:25 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:Who among us hasn't made that mistake?

And don't get me started on Kim Caldwell and Kim Crawford . . .
I'll admit to BOTH
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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1010 Post by Ken McNamara » March 8th, 2012, 4:30 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:I hope Don Cornwell gets to serve as an expert witness in the trial, collects a fat fee, and uses it to buy some wines he loves. He's done a great service to the wine community.
+1

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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1011 Post by Berry Crawford » March 8th, 2012, 4:31 pm

At a hearing in United States District Court in Los Angeles on Thursday, prosecutors said a search of Mr. Kurniawan’s home turned up materials used in the counterfeiting of wine bottles, according to a person briefed on the proceeding.
Wow. I always thought maybe he naively bought fake wines because he didn't know better than then tied to dump them. But this is a different level.

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1012 Post by Maureen Downey » March 8th, 2012, 4:33 pm

That post is the same apologist, 'you-are-not-worthy-of-an-opinion' post he has been writing for years. I wonder what the apologists will be spinning now. I think most will just skulk into the shadows. Though some are certainly getting the squeeze at the moment - and simply cannot speak. (oh to glorious silence!)

After years of being one of few public voices about the extent of the problem and the need to eradicate fraud in the fine wine world - it is wonderful to see the feds BEGINNING to take down those that have sullied the market. I am confident this is just the beginning of the cleaning up of fine & rare in the US.
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1013 Post by Berry Crawford » March 8th, 2012, 4:34 pm

Chris Sihler wrote:Really amusing, especially if you go back and re-read Rob Rosania's post.
This should only be discussed amoung gentleman. Know your place peasant.

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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1014 Post by RyanC » March 8th, 2012, 4:37 pm

Obviously there's a lot more to come out, but based on the early facts this really sounds like Hardy Rodenstock/Billionaire's Vinegar all over again. Beware of mysterious people plying you with jeros of priceless wine.
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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1015 Post by John Liotta » March 8th, 2012, 4:43 pm

Awesome.
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1016 Post by Anthony Hall » March 8th, 2012, 5:00 pm

post 1000 in the thread !
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1017 Post by Zachary Ross » March 8th, 2012, 5:06 pm

Drewt wrote:Am I the first to see this?


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/09/nyreg ... feits.html

Just the first to post.

"At a hearing in United States District Court in Los Angeles on Thursday, prosecutors said a search of Mr. Kurniawan’s home turned up materials used in the counterfeiting of wine bottles, according to a person briefed on the proceeding. "
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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1018 Post by Todd F r e n c h » March 8th, 2012, 5:07 pm

It would appear that Spectrum got their consignments in the nick of time...
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1019 Post by paul hanna » March 8th, 2012, 5:08 pm

I'd still like to see more responsibility taken by Spectrum in all of this, especially after all the concerns were raised early, and they deliberately lied about the real situation. They are equally at fault here, and should really have either withdrawn all the items or cancelled the sale.

Obviously greed wins out here over good business practice, and it simply isn't good enough for them to say "hey, we are just the agents" and try to deny they were also involved in perpetrating what amounts to fraud....

Hopefully their role in this "scam" is also investigated by the authorities....

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1020 Post by Todd F r e n c h » March 8th, 2012, 5:09 pm

paul hanna wrote:I'd still like to see more responsibility taken by Spectrum in all of this, especially after all the concerns were raised early, and they deliberately lied about the real situation. They are equally at fault here, and should really have either withdrawn all the items or cancelled the sale.

Obviously greed wins out here over good business practice, and it simply isn't good enough for them to say "hey, we are just the agents" and try to deny they were also involved in perpetrating what amounts to fraud....

Hopefully their role in this "scam" is also investigated by the authorities....
I'm sure if they were sweating when Don posted here, they are sweating now...
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1021 Post by Todd F r e n c h » March 8th, 2012, 5:12 pm

BTW, I flirtysmile this thread...
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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1022 Post by Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ » March 8th, 2012, 5:13 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:It would appear that Spectrum got their consignments in the nick of time...
I hope theyre happy they did. I'll never buy anything from them ever and will advise anyone I know in the market likewise. They did a great disservice to the community and the market by not at least pumping the breaks on this fiasco. Kudos again to mssr. Don whose diligence, effort and expertise was the impetus so rightfully needed.

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1023 Post by WvanGorp » March 8th, 2012, 5:16 pm

There is always time for supplemental charges or for others to be indicted.
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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1024 Post by Jay Miller » March 8th, 2012, 5:17 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
Chris Seiber wrote:Who among us hasn't made that mistake?

And don't get me started on Kim Caldwell and Kim Crawford . . .
I'll admit to BOTH
Ditto.
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1025 Post by Cris Whetstone » March 8th, 2012, 5:19 pm

Can we assume that the recent Spectrum auction is part of the evidence for this arrest? It seems rather quick to me. I'm betting their evidence and warrant are based on previous incidents and evidence.
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1026 Post by Chris Sihler » March 8th, 2012, 5:21 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
paul hanna wrote:I'd still like to see more responsibility taken by Spectrum in all of this, especially after all the concerns were raised early, and they deliberately lied about the real situation. They are equally at fault here, and should really have either withdrawn all the items or cancelled the sale.

Obviously greed wins out here over good business practice, and it simply isn't good enough for them to say "hey, we are just the agents" and try to deny they were also involved in perpetrating what amounts to fraud....

Hopefully their role in this "scam" is also investigated by the authorities....
I'm sure if they were sweating when Don posted here, they are sweating now...
My thoughts exactly, they were forewarned, plus they denied the involvement of Rudy, if it turns out that they knew otherwise, they may be party to fraud.

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1027 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » March 8th, 2012, 5:22 pm

Cris Whetstone wrote:Can we assume that the recent Spectrum auction is part of the evidence for this arrest? .
No, we cannot. Based on what we're being told, this arrest has nothing to do with that auction.
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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1028 Post by Anthony Hall » March 8th, 2012, 5:23 pm

Berry Crawford wrote:
At a hearing in United States District Court in Los Angeles on Thursday, prosecutors said a search of Mr. Kurniawan’s home turned up materials used in the counterfeiting of wine bottles, according to a person briefed on the proceeding.
Not wishing to defend RK but I have a collection of many empty bottles, some trophies, some kept for sentimental reasons. I wonder what the FBI would make of them ? Will be interested to see what the "materials" turn out to be.
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1029 Post by paul hanna » March 8th, 2012, 5:24 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
Cris Whetstone wrote:Can we assume that the recent Spectrum auction is part of the evidence for this arrest? .
No, we cannot. Based on what we're being told, this arrest has nothing to do with that auction.
I imagine though that the investigation could well spread to them, especially if there is a money trail....

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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1030 Post by Cris Whetstone » March 8th, 2012, 5:26 pm

Anthony Hall wrote:
Berry Crawford wrote:
At a hearing in United States District Court in Los Angeles on Thursday, prosecutors said a search of Mr. Kurniawan’s home turned up materials used in the counterfeiting of wine bottles, according to a person briefed on the proceeding.
Not wishing to defend RK but I have a collection of many empty bottles, some trophies, some kept for sentimental reasons. I wonder what the FBI would make of them ? Will be interested to see what the "materials" turn out to be.
"Materials used" implies a lot more than just bottles to me. That would indicate some sort of materials for use in counterfeiting labels IMO.
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1031 Post by NickWittman » March 8th, 2012, 5:32 pm

This is going to be highly interesting as it develops! Will Rudy seek a deal? Work with authorities? What counterfeit materials were found? To what degree where auction houses fooled or complicit? Any early predictions how it will play out?
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Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI on Numerous Fraud Charges

#1032 Post by Jeff Leve » March 8th, 2012, 5:33 pm

Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI!!!


Great news! Rudy Kurniawan, who for years was active in wine circles as one of the world’s wealthiest, collectors and dealers was arrested by the FBI in Los Angeles. Kurniawan, a resident of Los Angeles was taken into custody on 3 counts of wire fraud and 3 counts of mail fraud charges. The charges were filed in New York. It is expected that the United States attorney in Manhattan, New York, would seek to extradite him to New York to face charges.

Additional Details - http://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/201 ... d-charges/

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1033 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » March 8th, 2012, 5:34 pm

paul hanna wrote:
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
Cris Whetstone wrote:Can we assume that the recent Spectrum auction is part of the evidence for this arrest? .
No, we cannot. Based on what we're being told, this arrest has nothing to do with that auction.
I imagine though that the investigation could well spread to them, especially if there is a money trail....
I agree. However, that was not the question asked.
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1034 Post by Tom Moore » March 8th, 2012, 5:37 pm

35,000,000 worth of wine sold in 2006 alone? Wonder how much of that was fake?
Anybody on these boards buy any wine from Rudy and if so have you drunk it yet?

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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI on Numerous Fraud Charges

#1035 Post by Todd F r e n c h » March 8th, 2012, 5:47 pm

Jeff Leve wrote:Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI!!!


Great news! Rudy Kurniawan, who for years was active in wine circles as one of the world’s wealthiest, collectors and dealers was arrested by the FBI in Los Angeles. Kurniawan, a resident of Los Angeles was taken into custody on 3 counts of wire fraud and 3 counts of mail fraud charges. The charges were filed in New York. It is expected that the United States attorney in Manhattan, New York, would seek to extradite him to New York to face charges.

Additional Details - http://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/201 ... d-charges/
http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vie ... 79#p838679

And seriously, Jeff, you just show up to share information already discussed in this thread only to link to your own site. I ask in the future that you more carefully post links to your site, trying to sweep traffic from here.
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1036 Post by Peter Kleban » March 8th, 2012, 5:49 pm

Drewt wrote:Am I the first to see this?


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/09/nyreg ... feits.html
No, but you're batting 1000 on this thread!

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1037 Post by Lewis Dawson » March 8th, 2012, 5:49 pm

From AP...
Federal prosecutors in New York accused Kurniawan of engaging in "multiple fraudulent schemes" related to his wine business, including trying to sell 84 bottles of counterfeit Domaine Ponsot wine at an auction in 2008, and 78 bottles of bogus Burgundy wine from Domaine de la Romanée-Conti at an auction just last February.

For that second auction, prosecutors said, Kurniawan had an associate pose as the buyer because he had already become a pariah at auction houses. [I'm sure he meant to write "pose as the seller..."]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... cb892130c5
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1038 Post by SteveC » March 8th, 2012, 5:51 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:BTW, I flirtysmile this thread...
+1

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1039 Post by Cole Kendall » March 8th, 2012, 5:55 pm

$35 million is a huge amount of wine; even at $1000 per bottle that's 35,000 bottles or 3000 cases of wine.

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1040 Post by Cris Whetstone » March 8th, 2012, 5:57 pm

Lewis Dawson wrote:From AP...
Federal prosecutors in New York accused Kurniawan of engaging in "multiple fraudulent schemes" related to his wine business, including trying to sell 84 bottles of counterfeit Domaine Ponsot wine at an auction in 2008, and 78 bottles of bogus Burgundy wine from Domaine de la Romanée-Conti at an auction just last February.

For that second auction, prosecutors said, Kurniawan had an associate pose as the buyer because he had already become a pariah at auction houses. [I'm sure he meant to write "pose as the seller..."]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... cb892130c5
Nice. I'm sure he can't say much on the subject but I hope the prosecution has contacted Don about his evidence.
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1041 Post by Peter Muto » March 8th, 2012, 5:59 pm

Shit snacks! I've been a bystander and read through the whole thread but not posted as I don't play in this league at all and thus have no horse in the race, but wow, I never thought criminal charges would be laid! Talk about rich people problems! [wink.gif]

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1042 Post by Lewis Dawson » March 8th, 2012, 6:03 pm

Additional nugget from that AP article... "Rudy Kurniawan, 35, of Arcadia, Calif., was arrested in Los Angeles, where he has lived in luxury for years despite a longstanding deportation order expelling him from the country, federal prosecutors said."

I'll bet Rudy would be ready to obey the deportation order right about now. Had anyone known about this order? And why it existed?
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1043 Post by John Morris » March 8th, 2012, 6:17 pm

Lewis Dawson wrote:Additional nugget from that AP article... "Rudy Kurniawan, 35, of Arcadia, Calif., was arrested in Los Angeles, where he has lived in luxury for years despite a longstanding deportation order expelling him from the country, federal prosecutors said."

I'll bet Rudy would be ready to obey the deportation order right about now. Had anyone known about this order? And why it existed?
So Homeland Security didn't notice that this subject of a deportation order was granting interviews to the FT and was discussed all over the wine web? Very reassuring!
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1044 Post by Dave Butner » March 8th, 2012, 6:18 pm

Whoa, the hits just keep on coming in this story. Amazing.

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1045 Post by WvanGorp » March 8th, 2012, 6:21 pm

Slightly more in an updated NYT article:

http://nyti.ms/xbwQvH
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1046 Post by Keith Levenberg » March 8th, 2012, 6:21 pm

John Morris wrote:
Lewis Dawson wrote:Additional nugget from that AP article... "Rudy Kurniawan, 35, of Arcadia, Calif., was arrested in Los Angeles, where he has lived in luxury for years despite a longstanding deportation order expelling him from the country, federal prosecutors said."

I'll bet Rudy would be ready to obey the deportation order right about now. Had anyone known about this order? And why it existed?
So Homeland Security didn't notice that this subject of a deportation order was granting interviews to the FT and was discussed all over the wine web? Very reassuring!
John, the correct phrase is "undocumented wine collector."

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1047 Post by Dave Butner » March 8th, 2012, 6:27 pm

I'm really curious to hear what Big Boy has to say about this.

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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES

#1048 Post by c fu » March 8th, 2012, 6:30 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
Cris Whetstone wrote:Can we assume that the recent Spectrum auction is part of the evidence for this arrest? .
No, we cannot. Based on what we're being told, this arrest has nothing to do with that auction.
What Brian said. The feds don't move that quick ;)
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Re: Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI

#1049 Post by Matt Neel » March 8th, 2012, 6:31 pm

Berry Crawford wrote:
At a hearing in United States District Court in Los Angeles on Thursday, prosecutors said a search of Mr. Kurniawan’s home turned up materials used in the counterfeiting of wine bottles, according to a person briefed on the proceeding.
Wow. I always thought maybe he naively bought fake wines because he didn't know better than then tied to dump them. But this is a different level.
This is what I reacted to most strongly, too, Berry. Potentially quite damning, but what would it be? An exacto knife, capsules, old labels, old bottles, corks...?
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Re: URGENT WARNING--RUDY KURNIAWAN IS TRYING TO AUCTION MORE WINES (MERGED)

#1050 Post by c fu » March 8th, 2012, 6:31 pm

Dave Butner wrote:I'm really curious to hear what Big Boy has to say about this.
How far does Rudy's reach go in this? Who has he supplied with wine? All very interesting. I'm sure he privately sold some bottles to "close" friends as well.
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