how much is provenance worth?

How much of a premium are you willing to pay, to get a wine direct from the source? How much does shipping scare you?

Example: I’m looking at a wine that is 38 from the winery, +tax, cali pickup= 41 out the door.

best retail is 35 out the door+shipped, 32 if they don’t charge ca tax.

The difference is the retail wine has been shipped to ny, and then shipped back… Is it worth it?

+1.

Shipping doesn’t scare me if done during proper shipping season or if I have confidence that wines are shipped in temp controlled containers. If it did, I wouldn’t be drinking European wines. In fact, here in Chicago, I wouldn’t be drinking any wines

It’s worth a lot to me. My preferred method of acquiring wine is to pick it up from the winery, place it securely in the trunk of my car and carefully drive it home on a cool day.

M.dildine- I know… and i hate the though of a 6000 mile round trip to save a few bucks… but at 6 per, its 12 for the price of ten… I am considering contacting the winery to see if they would give a case discount to help equalize…

I would say premium wine is being shipped at a far higher standard today, so young wine is easier to roll the dice. Buying from quality retailers is the key.
Older wine, that’s another story all together. I’d pay 100% premium to know it’s perfectly stored.

provenance is everything – that’s why I’ll only buy from Garagiste

I would look at it a bit different and say - the full retail price includes great to perfect provenenace and anything that has less than perfect provenance should be discounted accordingly (i.e. not pay a premium for something that should be inherently built in). I am not naive enough to believe that is how things work - but IMHO it should work like that.

I don’t see the problem for a young wine if your only concern was a trip to NYC and back.

I’m with Charlie. It’s a young wine, I wouldn’t worry about the CA to NY roundtrip and would be happy to order from a reputable retailer. For an older wine or something I intended to cellar for many years, I’d rather pay the premium to get it direct from the winery.

For young wines that aren’t particularly expensive, its probably no big deal. Plus, if its a new release and you get something cooked, you can probably send it/take it back to the retailer and get store credit.

For old wines, though, provenance is a HUGE deal. Anyone who has bought something off of Wine Commune can tell you just how important it is. I’ve had a few terribly stored bottles that looked good until they got to me. Cut foil and boom, you know you have trouble. If the wine is stored perfectly, that isn’t really ever a problem. Only way you can guarantee that is provenance.

I never really understood the economics of this problem. I assume that the wholesale price of this wine is $19. That’s what the winemaker gets for the product if it goes out the door and is sold at retail. Why in God’s name wouldn’t the winemaker make his price structure such that the consumer has an incentive to buy direct. Seems like the winemaker would be better off selling it to you for $29 instead of giving it to the wholesaler at $19.

This drives me insane too. I recall being quite young and new to wine, and getting a Plumpjack from the winery on my first trip to Napa. I was furious when I got home and saw it in a high-end supermarket’s wine section for $8 less.

Echoing most of the members here, provenance is everything to me. However, if your wine is relatively young, and sourced from a reputable retailer/winery, I don’t see a problem with a CA to NY back to CA route. Of course, ship it in late October so you won’t be paranoid. To take it a step further, you can always pay overnight shipping or 2 day if you really want to make sure you get it quickly.

I think that in this case the trip isn’t an issue, but as stated, wineries that structure there system so they are as cheap to you as the cheapest retailer get more direct sales. I like at least a case discount, you get a better price, and it encourages case sales. Many of my favorites do this.

I would never think of buying direct from ramey or caymus or any of those types, yet rochioli for example cant be had for less than 2 dollars off.

What sort of discount do they give you at the Charles Shaw tasting room?

Aged vs recent vintage wine has been discussed above. I have to ask is it that important to save $70-80 and not support a producer you adore? Like many others I pay a premium to buy wine directly from smaller wineries and winemakers I want to see succeed in these difficult times. I do this without a moments hesitation or any regret about the money I might save via an auction site or retailer. Many times friendships evolve from commerce, no amount of savings is worth that loss.

In fact what I get most bummed about is buying directly, paying the premium, and then getting the retailer’s e-mail blast months later that has the very same wine deeply discounted. That I put on the wineries, and don’t forget so easily.

+2

Glenn- This is a complex question. First, buying a wine retail does support the winery. If they are putting wine out through retail, and they don’t sell, then they do end up on flash sites, or they don’t get reordered.
Secondly, I first purchased this wine from the winery, and purchase there svd bottlings that dont see retail. Yet i am not rich and i am a fan of a decent amount of producers/varieties. I try to purchase as efficiently as possible. If i saved 70-80 on every case i bought… so i guess i feel like i
prefer to go direct, but if a wine hits retail for less then its a case by case basis.

Because the fear is that the channel will see the winery as competing with them on price and be reluctant to carry their wine since it constrains how the retailer can price a wine. Distribution brings less monery per bottle but (if done right) increases sales volume. Fans of a winery might order direct online, but what limits your market to those people who 1) know about the winery, 2) hunt the winery website down and 3) are OK with ordering a wine and shipping it (waiting days at least if it’s shipping season, months if it’s not). That’s a much smaller market, especially if you aren’t being graced with 95+ scores from TWA and WS regularly.

Corey - I’d not hesitate to buy at retail for young wines which is what I assume we’re talking about here since the wines are also available direct. Obvious caveats are that it is shipping season. From the standpoint of supporting the winery, those wines at retail have already been sold. If they sell through, the channel is more likely to rebuy. That can only be good for the winery.