Just reading the 2003 thread and looking at some TN"s, we Americans drink Bordeaux young, in general. But enough of the infanticide comments, it is what it is…I think its just curiosity? Impatience? Or that’s what is around at the time. Probably all three. But who cares, its our wine, right?
If I could offer any advice to those building a cellar, stockpile heavily on Bordeaux in a great vintage, but as much as you can afford of the “lesser wines” and work your way up the ladder, then you won’t have to dip into your precious botttles $$ before they are truely ready. That’s the only way to overcome celler guilt:)
I think, too, that most Americans don’t have the experience of multi-generational cellars so we don’t tend to have the experience of pulling out 50 year old bottles.
It’s true: the French also tend to drink their own great wines far too young. Some of them say they prefer it that way, “sur le fruit”, but I’m more than a little sceptical…
Buying super-expensive wines and cellaring them under proper conditions almost seems an anachronism in the 21st century (wherever you live).
The paradox, of course, is that when an American really gets into something, he can really go whole hog. Which explains why some of the best private cellars in the world are in the US.
Another paradox is that Americans are very vintage oriented when it comes to Bordeaux, with many people snubbing entire vintages when , in fact, the so-called lesser vintages are not only much cheaper than the politically correct vintages but also - in most instances - come around earlier and correspond much better to drinkers’ lifestyles!
Also, there is the perennial confusion between “Bordeaux” and “the great growths” which, at the risk of getting flamed, is a very American thing too.
The latter account for less than 5% of the former!!!
And the kind of fruity, affordable Bordeaux I love doesn’t find its way to the States for a variety of reasons.
I agree with Eric: on the whole, Americans drink everything too young (general rule; yes, of course there are exceptions, and yes, many of them spend time/post here). I would surmise that Americans drink as such because (1) they prefer younger wines, or at least think they do; (2) lack of patience; and (3) ignorance. Unfortunately, the ignorance hurdle is made that much more difficult to clear by hurdles (1) and (2).
I was lucky enough to join a tasting group where several folks had proper cellars full of Bordeaux from the '60s and '70s (most of them stopped buying with the “too expensive” '82s), and so learned to like Bordeaux mature.
What I find that is different is that those guys drank wines like Beaujolais and Muscadet (when they drank them at all) very young, and could not fathom that we would age that stuff.
Now we’re advocating the aging of just about everything short of Vinho Verde (I am sure there is someone here who thinks that is better at 10+ years old as well), so what are people supposed to drink?
I agree with many of the comments in this thread, especially Eric’s and Paul’s. In general, I’m amazed at how early consumers drink many wines. And on this board, where there are ‘more knowledgable’ wine drinkers, I’m truly amazed how young some of the ‘bigger’ wines are consumed.
Part of this has to do with the ‘conventional wisdoms’ of drinking ‘nicer wines’ that have been ingrained in me from my younger days, I must admit. The thought of opening a CA cab or Bordeaux with only a year or two of bottle age simply seemed outrageous - these wines were ‘too closed’ and ‘needed time’ to really come together. And don’t we all know that wine gets better the older it is?!?!??
Paul’s point is very important - not only as it pertains to modern Bordeaux but also to most wine regions around the world. Wines are being made to consume earlier and earlier due to different techniques in the vineyard, at harvest, and during elevage. In addition, the idea of ‘opening one early to assess’ has certainly gained popularity - and this makes sense if one will be stockpiling . . .
Will be interested to see what others have to say.
If you can afford to purchase the most famous chateaux at today’s prices, then you can afford a proper cellar to store them. You can also afford all sorts of lovely wines for the short- and medium-term. For these folks, impatience is as good an explanation as any for “early” consumption. If you’ve got a more modest budget, then the cost of aging wine is a real factor.
Wine lovers in every country drink young wines. First, because they are delicious. While not mature, very few wines cannot be enjoyed in their youth. Next, few people have older wines in their cellar or the funds to buy mature wine. This is not just about Bordeaux, but for every wine all over the world.
It takes a lot of money, patience and a cellar to store wines to maturity. The average young collector does not have the time or funds to lay wine down for 10-20 or 30 years. They drink what is in their cellars.
“Most” of the people drinking older wine do not bother with playing on wine web sites. They are either busy with a real life, or they are too old to spend their time on the Internet.
I’ve been listening to these comments about America’s wine habits for awhile now. You need to remember that we have our own wine industry here. We buy the great growths because they are the ones seeking out. If an American is looking for a $10 or $15 bottle of wine we can choose from the entire world. I’ve tasted many inexpensive Bordeaux and quite frankly they don’t holdup to the competition. But maybe the Chinese will buy them now.
And the kind of fruity, affordable Bordeaux I love doesn’t find its way to the States for a variety of reasons.
Which is a HUGE difference. We can only buy what is exported here.
Also wines from minor vintages need to hold some price advantage over the same wine from a top vintage. If I have a choice of the same wine from two vintages, one a middle of the road, good vintage and one a great vintage but the prices are close? I’m buying the latter. That doesn’t happen with the top 50 or so wines, but it seems to with many things like Sociando, Cantemerle, most Burgs, Rhones, etc. For all but the most financially flush of us, we have to allocate funds and, well, why would I spend $40/bottle for a wine from a decent vintage when I can spend $50 for the same wine from a great vintage?
But I’ve noticed that a lot of people have a skewed vision of what ‘age’ means. Regularly, I’ll see a comment about an ‘older bottle’ or ‘something with age on it’ and then read about a bottle that’s 5 or 6 years old. People will refer to bottles from the late 90s as old. This is a weird definition of age. Even if we don’t have direct experience with 30+ year old bottles, most of us know that great wines can age for decades, but there’s a substantial number of us who view 6 years as ‘aged’.
The best way to avoid drinking your wines too young is to get together with a group of board members and order the wine even before it’s in the bottle.
I got a little curious about what defines “young”, so I did the most cursory research which the pedants here will quickly tear apart. The most commonly owned 1st growth in CT is Mouton, slightly edging out Lafite. Looking only at Mouton, there are published drinking windows for 49 vintages, from 2009 to 1945 (covering every vintage to 1970, and sporadically from there). The average drinking window for this set is 17 years (median 15), starting 19 years (med 14) and ending 36 years (med 31) from the vintage. This would seem to indicate even waiting 10 years after the vintage is indeed drinking early, although waiting 50 years is unnecessary.
However, even the medians are skewed by some odd data points in the older vintages (the DW for the 67 is 2032-2032, so keep holding on!) and the DW for the 45 didn’t start until 1997, 52 years after vintage date (hopefully none of you drank it until then). I recognize these DW are set by users and subject to error, but let me break the data down a bit more. Since I have complete data back to 1970, I’ll look at it by decade.
By Decade Start End DW Length Start After Vintage End After Vintage
00 Average 2015.3 2038.3 23 10.8 33.8
90 Average 2004.5 2020.9 16.4 10 26.4
80 Average 2001.6 2017.3 15.7 17.1 32.8
70 Average 2000.1 2009.6 9.5 25.6 35.1
I’ll leave these without comment to see what people think.
My belief is that CT drinking windows are largely useless. I don’t think the user base, by and large, has enough experience drinking older wines to accurately project their evolution. IMO it takes either 20+ years of drinking the same wines at different evolutionary stages or an extensive history of drinking older wines (preferably both). As such, that data aggregation I believe is extremely limited. “Not ready” is insufficient to project…
To further complicate the matter, the whole idea of a drinking window is something that can be disputed. I personally like my Bordeaux in two phases: the onset of secondary elements as primary fruit is eroding, or the full complexity of tertiary elements with less focus on primary fruit/tannin whatsoever. As such, how do I quantify that in a date range? Am I only going to be talking about approachability or stylistic preference?
Further denigrating the usefulness of a drinking window is the myth that that a wine in a drinking window is at some sort of peak, plateau or zone of drinking. Wine evolves quite non-linearly and I don’t think blanket date brackets do an adequate job of conveying that.
In short, drinking windows are pretty useless (just my opinion).
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