Why does Champagne usually take a back seat?

It seems to be a common international phenomenon.

Many serious tastings or wine dinners “kick off” with a good Champagne or two prior to the main theme of the event/dinner.

However, when most people recount their tasting experience, the Champagne(s), however good, seem permanently stuck in the “prelude” category, and I can’t think of many instances in which it/they have received particularly special notice or praise, much less the supreme accolade of “WOTN”.

I wonder why this is?

Surely, fine Champagne is one on the world’s greatest wines?

This is all the more curious when one considers that tasters’ palates are most acute at the beginning of a tasting, and their minds least addled by alcohol.

Could it simply be that most tasters focus on the main theme of the tasting, and consider anything else “nice, but extraneous”?

Am I alone in thinking that even great Champagne, other than its role as a “palate cleanser” seems doomed to play second fiddle?

Best regards,
Alex R.

I’ve been wondering this for myself for quite a while now. When I try to convey a great wine experience as having come from a Champagne I’ve seen people scoff at the suggestion. It is also interesting to see someone spend a lot on a bottle of Champagne only to have to thrown back as an after thought to the ‘real’ wines.

I think there are several factors at play. One is that Champagne has a tradition associated with it of celebration which can be hard to get past in the sense of cultural practices. Still wines are enjoyed with dinner where as sparkling wines are enjoyed as cocktails in movies and such. They also signify celebration in that sense. I think the effervescence also makes people put them in s separate category of not quite the same as still wines.

It is a real shame as they can be very versatile with food, even more so than many still wines. I can also honestly say that many of my best wine experiences have come from Champagnes, both young and old. I always implore those around me to pay greater attention to their Champagne and treat them as great wines versus pre-dinner shooters.

And get it OUT of the flutes!!!

Not for me! I just came back from hosting a Chinese lunch for some friends. I poured champagne from beginning to end. No reds.

Best,

N

Great post Chris - you took everything I wanted to say and said it more elegantly. I certainly second pouring Champagne in proper wine glasses over flutes!

+1. It isn’t unusual for our local tasting groups to open multiple bottles throughout. It is VERY common for some of us to hold back some to revisit throughout the evening.

I think this is the wrong board for this thread. Some of the most serious Champagne fans I’ve ever met post here, and make entire meals around Champagne.

Bubbles is a funny thing. I find so many times that a lot of collectors who stick to reds aren’t that big on Champagne. I’ve seen a few get converted, but not many.

Champagne’s one of the most versatile of wines, goes with anything from sole to barbeque pork. I would drink it constantly if I could afford to.

So I had been thinking of starting a thread to pose this question, but maybe piggybacking on this one would be a good place to get some comments.

I’ve been wanting to explore using Champagne as the “pairing wine” with dinner, but am a novice at anything other than popping a bottle for celebration or pairing with appetizers. But I have a fair amount of NV bottles that probably need to get moving on, so two initial questions come to mind:

1. What foods do you most like to pair Champagne with? I was thinking fish dishes, but I’m sure it is more versatile than that. Do you vary on BdB or BdN with your foods (Imagine you would)

2. If I can only consume 1/3 to 1/2 bottle with the meal, what is the best way to keep the rest until the next day or two? I always assumed it would just go flat, but see posts occasionally that people successfully keep it overnight. There is no way to get the Champagne cork back in, so what do you do for closure?

Sorry for the novice questions, thanks in advance for any advice.

It is too expensive relative to most folks cash flow and relative to reds on a quality scale. You can get very interesting reds for $20 - 40. You’re in a very difficult zone at $40 for Champagne. The vast majority of Champagne isn’t that pleasing in that range (some exceptions, but few). I think most of it is really bad actually, or at best simplistic.

Many people don’t like young Champagne, but do like it aged. There is very little aged Champagne around and not in low price ranges. There are lots of poorly stored older bottles, so it’s not uncommon for people to have tried older Champagne and it was awful.

I’m convinced most winos see Champagne as feminine and it doesn’t match well with beef.

It is not as intellectually pleasing as say White Burgundy, since you don’t have the vineyards and so many producers. If you want aged samples, you quickly end up with a small list of Great Houses and this does not please many winos for various reasons.

This is just the opposite of my experience lately. Usually the question at the end of our evenings is “OK, the Champagne was the best wine, but what was the best still wine?”

you guys ever hear of ray tuppatsch?

Wow, Todd, that was a great summation in brief! One advantage of being in a small shop in Manhattan is that we price ‘name brand’ champagnes mostly at a regular markup so we give the consumer an ‘incentive’ of sorts to try a Grower Champagne or smaller producer.

If you want Clicquot, you’re going to pay for it. Why not try Chartogne-Taillet Cuvee St. Anne for $3 less on sale?

Brad Baker mentioned in another thread that some of the ‘dealing’ going on by big houses to move volume has now lowered some pricing in the high $20 range and that might cause some pricing issues going forward, but as you mentioned yourself the $20-30 range in Champagne doesn’t have much to offer. You can start to find some grower stuff and what I consider some of the nicer houses (Pol Roger, for example) in the $35-40 range.

^you ever hear of the KOC (king of Champagne)? aka Big Boy??? I’m quite sure ray knows the name very well

With all the dealing going on right now I think it’s easier to find very nice bottles at least under $50; you’re certainly right, though, that it’s very hard to find any bargains in aged stuff, certainly not with an excellent chance to be in top condition.

But that lot you drink with in NYC, really, how many reds in the $20-40 range are they opening?

well I disagree.

try KLwines Champ selections

Hi-Time Wine Cellars

Or Wine Expo

all have decently large selections of smaller producers, and some aged, not too expensive (relatively) examples.

I think Crush Wines on the East Coast carries a pretty good selection, not so inexpensive?

Many people don’t like young Champagne, but do like it aged. There is very little aged Champagne around and not in low price ranges. There are lots of poorly stored older bottles, so it’s not uncommon for people to have tried older Champagne and it was awful.


It is not as intellectually pleasing as say White Burgundy, since you don’t have the vineyards and so many producers. If you want aged samples, you quickly end up with a small list of Great Houses and this does not please many winos for various reasons.

I’ve had quite a few intellectually ‘unpleasing’ wh. Burgs, sad to say. I suppose Roberto Rogness might come along and add a few pts to this thread


While not always readily available, older aged Champagne (French in general prefer to drink them younger) that doesn’t cost a fortune does come on to the market if you keep your eyes open for it, usually around holiday shopping season.

Champagne by it’s nature costs more to make than say Burgundy, but you’d be hard pressed to find quality Burgundy that is aged, for much less than aged Champagne. Not saying it doesn’t exist, just that like inexpensive aged Champagne, not much of it to be found. Of course quality/price returns is in the eye of the beholder.

I’m convinced most winos see Champagne as > feminine > and it doesn’t match well with beef.

Hmm, then they are ignorant! Many a Pinot Noir/Meunier based Champagne is/can be depending on the house style, how do we say… “well endowed”. While perhaps not the ideal company of a beef based meal, some will work well enough. True enough I’d prefer a red with beef, but then I don’t eat much red meat these days.

As for 100% Chardonnay based. No one that ever tasted Krug Clos du Mesnil 1990 would ever call that ‘feminine’ by that connotation, unless they like getting they’re arse kicked by hot/sexy badarse babes< think Jessica Alba as ‘Dark Angel’

Yeah, ‘feminine’ but still will kick yer arse most awesomely :

! '90 CdM tasted with Bollinger '90 RD, made the predominantly Pinot based RD seem almost insipid in comparison— CdM was that powerful! Unfortunately with the CdM, I bought a boatload of my favorite Champ/food combo in fresh nigiri sushi, which was also annihilated by the CdM .

I <3 sushi & Champagne, just have to pick a less potent version to accompany this kind of seafood (1981 Krug CdM would go well with sushi).

Well top notch Champagne usually is expensive, but then again, my long-time favorite paring with it… real-deal caviar is now likewise painfully expensive! If you must have a Champagne at the end of a wine tasting meal, they also go pretty well with a fair number of different kinds of cheeses, imho.

Personally I’d prefer multiple bottles of Champagne, and nothing else in a tasting/meal. With the bubbles, you get blitzed pretty fast and your palate gets satiated to the point tasting other wines later, is kind of a waste, imho. If you read Kapon’s wine pr0n notes, they always start with/prefer to begin these multi-bottle extravagances with Champagne, and many other tastings follow this path. I’d pass on that as I don’t want to get buzzed too quickly…I prefer slowly building up to a, uh, ‘climax’; rather than getting all hotNbothered with a wham-bam-ty-ma’am type of imbibing from the get go

Cris summed it up beautifully, but I would add;

Champagne is great to start the evening as it is almost always approachable and refreshing, the acidity and effervessence generally clean up the palate, and it is versatile enough to pair up nicely with most traditional starter courses.

I think by the time we all fuss with our reds and hope they open up enough, show well, etc we don’t automatically go back to the reliable, consistent leadoff man.

In our house we drink sparkling wine with almost anything (short of red meat and heavy pasta dishes), but I find it pairs best with Asian food (Thai, Indian, Chinese and sushi) and also enjoy it with bbq (like pulled pork). Of course, the best Champagne pairing is, and always will be, french fries!

2. If I can only consume 1/3 to 1/2 bottle with the meal, what is the best way to keep the rest until the next day or two? I always assumed it would just go flat, but see posts occasionally that people successfully keep it overnight. There is no way to get the Champagne cork back in, so what do you do for closure?

I just use a Champagne stopper and put it in the fridge overnight. No real drop-off the next day. They look like this:

A regular old cork works just fine.

I love champagne, but I think it’s fair to say that most non-grower champagnes have their distinctiveness and therefore interest blended away.

True for a lot of the NV mass market bottlings, but not, IMO, for many of the luxe versions; whether or not they’re worth the premium is a different question, of course.