Preferences and posting TNs

I was recently asked how I can properly evaluate a wine, such as Cab or Bordeaux, since I don’t really enjoy those wines. The flavor profiles just don’t speak to me. I stated that I tell people upfront that Cabs are not my preference with the idea that people will use that info to help understand my notes and read them in the proper context.

But it opens up a BIGGER discussion. I don’t see many people post their preferences/biases when posting TNs.

If you are oak adverse on a CONSISTENT BASIS, for instance, shouldn’t you state that UP FRONT so those of us reading the notes can determine if the wine is “really” too oaky or just too oaky for you?? Thus if you say “over oaked”, that may mean something different than if Parker says “over oaked”.

Ditto tannins. I have a drinking friend who cannot stand tannins. They are just bitter, bitter, bitter to him. So he likes OLD OLD OLD wines with no tannins. Thus if you read his notes but never knew his STRONG adversion to tannins, can we as readers properly evaluate those notes? Wines I think are DEAD he thinks need to go a few years still.

Some people STRONGLY dislike Aussie wines, for example. They just experience them differently than others. So when I read their notes, if I don’t know they generally hate all Aussie wines, how can I evaluate their TNs?

Now with Parker, a well known, prolific and consistent palate, one learns which descriptors match your palate, and which don’t and over the years determine the correlation between WA notes and our notes.

Now we’re not talking bad bottles or vintages. We’re talking about people KNOWING their own palates, preferences and biases. We are talking about an OVERWHELMING positive or negative feeling about a GROUP or class of wines OR wine STYLES.

Comments?


PS and finally I think one can evaluate a wine even if they don’t like it based on flaws, winemaking ability, varietally correct, etc. Thus I’m considering expanding my own scoring system. One score is for technical merit. The other is for “appeal”. Thus I might get a cab a B for technical merit but a D because it just was unexciting to me.

Jeff,
We get to know each other gradually here and we learn about preferences and aversions as we go. Maybe the real point of these boards is to find out about each other and not so much about the wines.
And we can always as questions as we go.
A wise lunatic once remarked that “it ain’t about the juice man, its about the people.”
Best, Jim

What Jim said.
Unless Todd wants to put up another sub-forum entitled “tasting disclosures.”

I think one can be subjective on and I DO note on varietals I would not necessarily buy all the time. When I bring those glasses to my lips I am judging technical correctness as well as overall enjoyment of that said wine. You don’t need the ‘love of’ to understand it.

Its the wines you love that you may have some imbalance of fairness toward. So you may actually be fairer to the ones you don’t normally drink and I am sure I may over rate some cabs I taste. Guilty. (so just subtract 2…)

I believe that I can evaluate a wine fairly whether or not it is my preference stylistically. Evaluation is a process and I believe it is more about knowing what the correct parameters are for a particular type of wine, than what I like, that gives the process validity.

I actually do this in my notes, with the only two points that I am really strongly one-sided about - malo and oak. For the rest, I don’t have any biases that would affect the notes.

I think it is a good idea for anyone who has such biases to state them, and I’ve seen some do it. This method is far more helpful.

However, if you read enough notes by one person, you can sort of see their tendencies and preferences, a la Parker (big, tannic, inky red wines)

I think most of this becomes self-evident at some point. If you constantly see things like “I felt like I was tasting this in a lumber yard,” it doesn’t take long to determine the TN writer is an oak-a-phobe. I also agree that many people preface their inclinations toward or away from certain varieties or styles within the TN itself.

When I wrote notes that I posted I tried to steer away from ‘tastes like a lumberyard’ precisely because it’s useless UNLESS you know me. Notes should, ideally, describe the experience of tasting the wine, not be a mishmash of commentary. Of course, my ‘framed by a nice bit of acidity’ might well be ‘so much acid it’s painful’ to someone else, but the question then is who varies from the average, myself or the other person.

As to the idea that we learn people’s predilections over time, true… but that happens more with people who post regularly. It’s easy with a critic since they post dozens of notes every issue, but harder with most of us who post a TN here and there. It would be nice to have a way to note significant biases, but where’s the line? I dislike lavish over the top oak on onw hand… and I’m with Jeff in that Cabs don’t really do much for me on the other. The first I can disclose… the second doesn’t prevent me writing a good note on it at all.

If the wine is simply made in a style I don’t like, I will make note of that in the Cellartracker TN. I also rarely give such a wine a numerical rating. However, I don’t consider “unbalanced” a style so over oaked or over “anything” is going to get a poke from me.

It sort of depends on the audience for your notes. Most of us write for 2 audiences: the consuming public; and the future us. The difficulty in writing notes is mostly with the former in that the future us will most likely remember what the contemporary us liked back when we were writing in the present. I speak, of course, of the royal us.

The best note writers are those who can relate a sensuous incident in a language that is easily understandable by people who have not shared the experience. Overwhelming bias is certainly not going to universalize a moment without disclosure. Even with disclosure, it makes calibration of reader and writer difficult.

We agree with the royal Ben.

Except when I’m reporting on wines I’ve tasted on my excursions into the Willamette Valley when I will report on ALL the wines I taste, I generally don’t post notes on wines I didn’t like. Ergo, I can’t refer to oak bombs and the like.

Well said, Ben - relate a sensuous incident, yet without a barrage of adjectives.

Most definitely I have notes 2 years old that make no sense to me now, as my palate has changed. I have some of the same wines, and ‘rate’ them quite differently now.

Here’s a great example of how to do it, if you can - Recent wines - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is, by-far, my favorite thread. Sometimes I read TN’s and wonder if the one who is writing, is writing for themselves or for others (and I’m not sayint that either is right). It’s somewhat like recording history in that we will all see/perceive something different. Viva la difference!!!

I have loved getting to know some of my fellow WB’s and learning what they like. As someone who sells wine, I’d be a fool not to listen.

For me, reading TN’s is like reading a journal - and I like it!

I have a fan! [d_sunny.gif]

More than one.

M1k3 P0b3ga

I don’t post a lot of notes because mostly there just for my own use. If I do post something It’s because the wine either really did something for me or was horrible. Thanks to Pobega for tempting me enough with his notes to start buying
Cabs again after many years of not.

I typically post TNs because I like the wine, it spoke to me and helped tie into the thrill I get when I taste a bottle I like. Futher, I try and post TNs for wines I like, as I like to think that I can do better to look for the positive and it’s too easy to find and point out what is broken. I work in Human Resources and often times the human percspective is to seek what is wrong. Not trying to be the next Norman Vincent Peale but this is why I don’t labor to post TNs on wines I don’t care for. I occasionally mix negative notes into wines when I taste through a large flight of things, mainly wines brought by others to an event. I may not like everything so I TN things as I see them. But, I have worked hard to winnow my cellar down to things that I LIKE and so it regularly leans to a positive note.

There is definitely an element of posting for myself whenever I put a TN together. Because I know my palate will change over time I usually include my current feelings on a given varietal, alcohol level, oak or whatever else I make a strong statement about in the TN. More often so I have a reference point for myself but also because when I read other people’s TNs I often wonder about this very question…“I like Mollydooker but this one tastes like dirty porcupine ass.” Carries a lot more weight with me than “This Mollydooker tastes like Rubitussin, just like the rest of them.” Is the word Mollydooker allowed on this board?