A Couple of smoky OR 2020s

Two go-to 2019 Pinots around the $30 point were the Colene Clemens Dopp Creek and the Cristom Willamette. Both excellent with different characteristics. I’ve had all the Dopp Creeks since 2015 and thought 19 was the best yet. They’re gone now and we have the 2020s, which I needed to experience.

2020 Dopp Creek hit me off the bat with an unfamiliar smoky character. I was advised that there was no fire impact, but it sure seemed unusual.
2020 Cristom Willamette - same earthy nose as the 19. And the same bright berry fruit. But the finish was notably smoky and persistently so.

Both are drinkable, maybe even enjoyable, but for me, not go-tos in this vintage.

Anyone else catch this in these or other 2020s? Just curious.

2 Likes

I visited Cristom last December and tried the 2020 there, had the same impression.

1 Like

Thanks for sharing your impressions - my guess is that we will begin to see a lot of these as 2020s are released.

I’m curious about your comment about the Dopp Creek that you were ‘advised there there as no fire impact’ - who mentioned this to you? Do folks know if they were in an area where fires were known to have caused issues with other wineries?

Such a bummer - and I know we all hope that the 2020s that folks decide to release truly are absent of any smoke taint qualities or from areas where smoke was not an issue.

Cheers

Popped a 2020 cristom WV a couple weeks ago. Very disappointed that they released this wine. The smoke was very noticeable, and kind of ruined the tasting experience. Hopefully this fades away with some time in the cellar.

2 Likes

Curious if this could actually happen. From a scientific perspective. Question for those who might know-Does smoke taint dissipate?

2 Likes

Dennis, no they don’t. The molecules responsible for the ashy-ashtray type notes are quite tenacious and unfortunately very stable.

Tom

4 Likes

I’ve largely skipped most of the 2020’s so far, but I did try the Cameron Ribbon Ridge and Dundee Hills cuvees. Someone from the winery poured a quick sample of the Ribbon Ridge while I was in a local shop and I bought 3 bottles based on it since it seemed relatively clean and I didn’t get smoke on it. I drank one bottle and it seemed OK as well, so I’m hoping that wine is sound for a few years. I just tried the Dundee Hills in the last week or two, and it was pretty clean, but as it opened I got a tiny bit of smoke, but it wasn’t an acrid, ashtray thing, and was more like a subtle smoky note that I would chalk up to wood/barrel related that in a non-fire year. The smoke on the DH wasn’t overwhelming, but it was still present the second day. I wish I could re-taste the Dundee Hills blind with some other wines since I’m honestly not sure if the smoky hint I got is smoke from the fires or just “normal” smokiness that I sometimes get from wood or barrels. It’s really hard for me to taste a red from 2020 without really concentrating on whether it has smoke damage, so I know it skews my perceptions to a degree.

I also wish I understood more of the chemistry about what happens to smoke derived phenols over the aging curve. My fear is that some wines, like the Cameron Ribbon Ridge, will seem fine now but that the acrid notes re-emerge as it ages. So you buy it thinking it’s fine and you open it in 4-5 years and it’s undrinkable. I want to support the local wine makers, but it’s also harder for me to buy when I know there’s a really good chance that the wine may be subpar or even undrinkable. There are some sub-$20, inexpensive WV wines, like McKinlay and Pike Road, that I used to buy in grocery stores as daily drinkers, but I’ve largely skipped those when the vintage flipped to 2020 since there are other sound options in that price range for daily drinking. It’s definitely not a vintage to buy without tasting first.

2 Likes

The national sales manager was visiting and provided that response.

1 Like

I had the Cristom 2020 at the winery last month. Like Joseph, I thought the smoke was noticable especially on the back end. It was interesting to taste, but definitely for immediate consumption (at best).

1 Like

I am not sure this is correct in all smoke taint cases. I have seen wines that were obviously and offensively smoky fade to below threshold for most people. Fade happened in BBL, tank and less so in bottle. I don’t claim to know how commonly that happens. I can say that it has happened. It was not with PN.

It is a huge bummer that tainted wines were released without disclosing.

I agree that “smoke” used as a descriptor can vary widely not just in tainted wines but even in non tainted wines. The problem being the bound fire related molecules, guaiacol, 4-methylguaiacol and several others release over time during wine aging giving that acrid ashy-ashtray note which is far different than a mild slight smoky note often seen in various wines.

Even at those higher perceived levels some consumers may not object, heck, some people don’t mind TCA but that acrid ashtray note is foreign to the bottled wine. 2008 pinot noir in the Anderson Valley is an example of severe smoke taint emerging over time in the bottle.

Tom

1 Like

Are you sure you know which chemical causes “ashtray”?

From my experience, the ashtray term is more a mouthfeel issue than an aroma. There are a wide range of chemicals produced by wildfire. Each tainted wine likely has a different concentration of a wide range of different components.

The wine I am referring to had the level of apparent taint drop by 75 to 85%. At one point 10 out 10 tasters, smoke would be their first or top descriptor. Now, unprompted, around 1 in 20 mentions it and less than 1 in 5 of those sees it as problematic.

On the other hand, I have seen wines where the taint seems to get worse over time.

My main point is that not all taint is the same. Given the current state of the science, I would shy away from blanket statements presented as fact.

3 Likes

The smoky, ashy, ashtray notes are a complex mixture, I mention the two molecules at elevated levels only as a common reference for “smoke taint” descriptors. Actually, I think we are in agreement. There is no substitute, not GC not GC MS, NMR etc for the human sensory evaluation. I have no doubt that the wine you specify is dropping in taint and even more important is becoming far less obvious to sensory evaluation (tasting). That is key!

I was only referring to the bound molecules releasing over time as in 2008 Anderson Valley pinot noir. Obviously that phenomenon will vary due to a variety of conditions, severity of taint, grape variety, processing, aging etc. The wine you are referring to proves that not all smoke taint is created equal.

Tom

1 Like

Smoke taint does not dissipate. I have tried a couple 2020 Oregon Pinot Noirs that I was assured were “clean”…they were not. Same with 2008 in CA.

I am pretty much of the opinion that if you have to clean a wine then you shouldn’t release a wine without a disclosure or like Marcus somewhat joked called it Rauch Noir.

1 Like

unfortunately, i think that the most trustworthy OR 2020 pinots are the ones that werent made. and that really pains me to say because oregon pinot is our household #1 without a close second.

from almost everything ive heard from people like Morgan and read on my own, that smoke taint note doesnt dissipate, and is maybe more likely to become MORE noticeable than less with age.

1 Like

I’ve had several 2020 Oregon Pinots. None reminded me of 2008 Anderson Valley wines at all, no ashtray notes. That said, I haven’t loved one yet.

I drank one alongside its 2019 counterpart, and they were vastly different, the 2020 being clipped and a little dull. It had gone through carbon filtration, so either that, smoke, or vintage effects caused the difference. I’d bet on the filtration, which I’m sure was necessary, so still the smoke’s fault.

I have a 2020 Cameron Dundee Hills lined up. Perhaps I’ll try it side-by-side with the 19.

There are NO magic bullets when it comes to smoke taint. Some things will take edges off, perhaps only in the short term, maybe also in the long term but likely there is no consistency because, as pointed out above, it’s not a level playing field. Different types of smoke, different intensities, levels and times of exposure, etc. I can absolutely guarantee that someone in Oregon in 2020 or 2021 came up with some radical process that removes smoke taint. It’s been around all over the world for a long time and there’s been untold amounts of money poured into studies and trials and the results are not great when it comes to winemaking in this situation.

I’ve had some decent Chardonnays (not mine!) from 2020 and a couple of other white/pink/orange wines but that’s it. Doesn’t mean good Pinot doesn’t exist but it would have to exist under a particular set of circumstances. We made one from stuff picked before the smoke hit the valley floor. It’s, obviously, unimpacted but I’m sure glad we only had 800 cases of it because trying to explain that to a much larger number of people would have been difficult. We also made one from definitely impacted stuff but with low level affect (both by sensory and the numbers) and I pulled out the BREAK ONLY IN CASE OF EMERGENCY box of winemaking tricks, sleights of hand and funky bunch stuff to create a very nice but clearly $16 of Pinot that might as well have been called Drink It Now rather than Dollar Bills Only.

Hope to never see that situation again but pardon me if I don’t hold my breath.

2 Likes

I tasted the Cristom last Fall and had the same experience. I haven’t had too many 2020s, but I can say that the Denison WV Pinot Noir is great, no issues. There are plenty of others I’m sure. I’ve read the Domaine Divio wines are great (in this case, per Paul Gregutt, due to fining the juice, prior to fermentation).

This is a frustrating issue because as we were in élevage, my smoke phenol lab reports looked fine (elevated but not over threshold according to a couple of research papers on the topic) and I had a lot of folks and other wine makers taste the wine blind, and it was fine.

So then you make the decision and the financial commitment to bottle instead of selling it at a loss as bulk wine. But upon racking to tank, a month or so before bottling, you start to notice a bit on the back end. At this point the bottles, labels and corks have been purchased… still it seems fine, so you press ahead. Then, a tad bit more oxidation at bottling (regardless of being careful, sparging bottles, etc., it’s hard to avoid 100%) and the bottled wine has yet more smoke on the back end. At this point, I met with my sales team and we decided to discount the wine to $20retail with a 50% discount for case purchases (a “break even” price point). At this price, many are thrilled and either don’t notice or don’t care too much about the finish : ). I was able to sell all 350 cases in 6 months. Phew.

In terms of the smoke taint compounds, the current state of knowledge and lab analysis (via ETS) includes three types of cresol, and two syringols in addition to two guaiacols, as mentioned above. These are provided both in both their “bound” and “unbound” forms and also, importantly, with a huge caveat that they are only “markers” (I.e., there are other unknown or too-difficult-to-measure (parts per trillion) compounds). That said, my recollection is that the guaiacols are thought to be responsible for “smoky” characteristics and the crésols are the ashy, ashtray, creosote characteristics.

7 Likes

Brick House has or plans to release a NV blend with some 2020 PN blended with one or two other years. The smoke is noticeable but not unpleasant, and they are disclosing it, so this seems reasonable to me.

I tried a 2020 PN from Willamette Valley Vineyards that was noticeably smoke tainted with the ash tray finish. Nothing disclosed (that I saw) in the tasting notes or offer sheet.

I think one of the Vincent Gamay Noir that I tried is slightly smoke tainted. This one was the most subtle to me, it’s still a good wine (for now anyway), and I’m honestly not 100 percent sure but if I had to bet on it I would say slightly tainted.

1 Like

Your honesty is refreshing, and very much appreciated. I truly hope you never see such conditions again.

3 Likes