Replace Spiegelau Definition Bordeaux for the old stuff

Hello, Has anyone here used Spiegelau Definition Bordeaux? I heard they are cheap and the quality is not much worse than the good ones.
Give me some idea? Thanks!

Based on the advice in this thread Zalto - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers I bought them to replace some Zalto Bordeaux that broke. I’m sure there are small differences if you look closely, but I haven’t noticed them. Highly recommend.

I just bought two to try, they are 22% off now so about 19 bucks a glass. One stem was broken on arrival, will see how that is handled. The stem is significantly thinner, the rim width about 2mm less, the base about 2mm wider. 10-15 grams lighter. I’d say a blind tasting is in order. Will add to the rotation and see how these hold up.

Edit: My daughter just came downstairs and says “you’re looking at glasses, are they the same?”, I tell her no, one is cheap, she looks a few seconds and says, correctly, “the one on the right looks more expensive, thinner and better made”.

I purchased 2 of these to try out as replacements for the older glasses as they break. I really like them. They are so much lighter than the older glasses. I have never tried Zalto or Gabriel glass so I can’t judge differences but for the cost I will just stick with these. My S.O. did not like them, she said they were too light and prefers a heavier glass.

Went to a restaurant that was using the Spiegelau definition series stems last night. Pretty convincing Zalto lookalike, at a fraction of the price.

I agree completely and it is at a much lower price than the hand-made ones.

I have purchased 10 of these so far to phase out a whole bunch of other glasses. I have been using primarily Grassls and Zaltos before purchasing the Definitions and I think the Definitions are the perfect balance of weight, thinness, durability, and price. I find the Bordeaux shape a mid-point between Grassl Cru and 1855 so work quite well for me as an all purpose glass. The Definition Burgundy are like a Zalto Burgundy, which I find too wide.

I have received some comically crushed shipping boxes in which the glasses themselves somehow came through completely unscathed, which speaks to their durability. Overall, I consider them them to offer 9/10’s of the thinness/weightless benefits of a Zalto/Grassl at a fraction of the cost and with the added benefit of being able to confidently hand wash the glass.

I bought a lot of the Bordeaux, Burgundy and Universal Definition glasses. Not going back to Zalto… got each glass for almost 1/3 of the current Zalto prices and the difference is almost non-existent for me from a taste and aromatic perspective.

They scratch the same itch pretty well.

I bought a couple of Spiegelau Definition Universal stems, mainly just to try them (I have more Zalto than I currently use). A friend saw them and bought a set of 40 for a pied-a-terre in Manhattan she recently purchased because the Zaltos are so difficult to source at the moment. Side by side you can tell minor differences which I don’t find particularly significant. If you were just using them, probably not.

-Al

I haven’t had a chance to compare them side by side. Curious to know how you, or others that tried them side by side, would characterise the differences between the Zalto and the Spiegelau Definition? Is it the weight? Thickness? Overall feel?

I’ve only compared the Universal, and only one example of the Definition at this point. The Definition is just slightly taller overall, and the stem is a bit longer, and the bowl itself looks just a bit smaller. TBH, I’m not sure they are any sturdier, just costs less if you break one.

-Al

I can’t offer the most direct comparison as I have only Zalto Burgundy and Definition Bordeaux but I think that comparison between these two offers some value. Held side by side when empty the Zalto feels slightly lighter, even though on a scale the Zalto weighs 124 grams and the Definition 127 grams. With wine in the glass I fine no perception of weight difference but the Zalto still feels more fragile (one might say delicate). Other than the slight fragile/delicate factor just described I don’t perceive a thickness difference when drinking from them. Honestly the biggest difference I find is that the Definition feels much more sturdy when hand washing - so much so that I use the same wash method I’ve always used for my old Riedel Vinums while I apply a pain-in-the butt special treatment to my Zaltos and Grassls (after shattering a Grassl on my second outing with them using my standard hand wash method).

As has been noted upthread, I find that the Definition performs at the same level as a Zalto or Grassl and that any perception differences are incredibly minor and overwhelmed by the cost advantage (and to my perception) the improved strength of the Definition. My only wish is that the Definition Burgundy glass didn’t replicate the exaggerated width of the Zalto Burgundy. I’ve decided that the Definition Bordeaux shape works well enough for me all around but I would have purchased a whole second set of Definition Burgundy if they had a less exaggerated bowl shape.

Rodrigo, I have two of the Definition Bordeaux and 5 of the Zalto Bordeaux in my glass lineup now, and for all practical drinking purposes, I cannot distinguish between the two if not looking. I posted the measurement differences above, and to add to that, the Definitions are a few mm taller, I discovered since my shelves are less than a cm taller than that . That said, I would likely replace Zalto with Zalto once the supply chain issues are resolved, I’ve had mine many years and like the product. (Although Charlie posted on a separate thread that the shape had changed in some newer examples he had, which would be an issue for me.)

Ordered two of the Bordeaux yesterday and they just arrived. I like the look, feel and price.

I ended up grabbing some Spiegelau Universal and BDX stems to try out after enjoying my experience with a Burgundy stem at a restaurant earlier this week.

I’ve always been a big fan of drinking champagne out of Zalto Universals, so I decided to try it out on a Brochet Mont Benoit I opened.Tried the Universal against the Grassl Liberte and Mineralite. And I gotta give it up, I preferred the Spiegelau quite a bit for this particular wine, with the Mineralite coming a close second. Those two stems did a really good job focusing the mineral notes of the wine, with the Spiegelau edging out the Mineralite slightly. Things felt a bit more precise and clear in it. Overall, very impressed with the Universal.

The Spiegelau Universal does fit my Grassl Voyager cases, although the foot sticks out a bit more than the Grassl stems. I can still close the lid with ease though. Will try bringing a stem to an event soon and see how it fares.

Hey that’s a neat case. I end up rolling glasses up in kitchen towels and tossing them in a Whole Foods back when I take them around, and that looks much more presentable. I’d like to try some Universals for Champagne, the Champagne glasses have always seemed a little undersized.

I love it, Grassl does a two and four stem case. Makes bringing my stems to places much easier and safer

Recently purchased two Spiegelau Definition Universal glasses since I can’t get Zaltos. Apple-to-apple comparison: prefer the Zaltos. The Spiegelaus are thinner and feel less robust. Same impression I have comparing my machine-made Chemex to the hand-blown one. The latter feels more robust. Here in the US the Spiegelaus are fairly expensive, about 1/2 of what I paid for the Zaltos. If Zaltos were available I’d buy them. But am happy with the Spiegelaus for now. They definitively set a new standard for machine-made stems.

Went to a French restaurant here in Miami on Friday. There were four of us - the somm gave me a Zalto, and the other three Spiegelaus. I’m only now realizing he probably did that because I was picking out the wine, but somm did say it was a sourcing issue. I was not expecting Zaltos, but was pleased when I noticed. I pointed it out to the others (the other couple is looking for glasses), only to realize theirs were Spiegelau. In a very quick comparison (and after a bottle of champagne) I did not notice much of a difference. Was impressed with the Spiegelau.

All that being said, I use Grassl at home.