TN: Some pizza and picnic wines, blind

Here in Helsinki a bunch of us wine geeks have had a tradition of going to one of the local forest in a certain Sunday in May to collect false morels. We start by gathering at a certain rendezvous point, then going through one long, tried-and-tested path through the best spots for finding false morels, until finally arriving to a place where we have a big dinner - either in the middle of the forest or at somebody’s (who lives nearby) back yard. Everybody brings a bottle of wine (some even two) that is wrapped so that it is blind and although we are actively looking for the mushrooms (well, probably more than half of the people are just for the wine, not for the mushrooms) every half an hour or so we have a quick blind tasting where we taste two-three wines. And of course there are more wines waiting for us at the dinner place.

This tradition began in the late 1980’s and still, after +30 years, some original members join in the mushroom hunt, but as every year those old members who do not join are replaced by new faces, both the group and the tradition has been kept vibrant and healthy.

However in 2020, due to COVID, we missed for the first time ever our traditional mushroom hunt - social distancing was in effect and people chose to remain home instead. In 2021 we decided to play it safe and not have the mushroom hunt this year either, but since social distancing wasn’t on the table anymore, a smaller group of us decided to have something relatively similar on the same weekend: we agreed to rendezvous in the Helsinki center and bike to the eastern limits of the city where a Finnish-Italian couple runs a proper, Italian-style pizzeria that is built inside an old barn. Every attendee brought a bottle (or two) and thus we had small blind tastings in the nature as we worked our way through the eastern Helsinki. The total biking distance for the day was around 45-50 km (28-31 miles), so I guess that even with the pizza included, this was one of the healthiest wine tastings I’ve ever been to!

Here are the wines we brought with the tasting notes!
(We also had one Australian Tannat that didn’t make it to the photo)
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Youthful, luminous and quite intense yellow-green color. Youthful, fragrant and very Riesling-driven nose with aromas of ripe lemony citrus fruits, some floral notes of apple blossom, light candied gummi bear tones, a little bit of savory spice and a sweet hint of ripe grapey fruit. The wine is fresh, youthful and firm on the palate with a subtle touch of CO2 prickle at first, although that blows off very quickly. Bright, sunny flavors of grapey fruit, slightly sweet-toned lemon marmalade, some ripe peach tones, light spicy notes of white pepper and cardamom, a little bit of quinine bitterness and a floral hint of orchard flowers. The high acidity lends good sense of structure to the wine - even when the viscosity seems to creep up a little bit as the wine opens up and loses its CO2. The finish is long, juicy and quite long with subtly sweet-toned flavors of ripe peach, some juicy citrus fruit tones, a little bit of stony minerality, light spicy nuances and a hint of pear.

A very ripe and sunny but also wonderfully fresh and precise Kamptal white. My (and everybody else’s) first guess was Riesling from the nose that was very true to the variety. After a few wrong guesses we managed to guess Wiener Gemischter Satz, which was close enough. There’s a sweet undercurrent to the fruit, but it’s hard to assess whether there is some residual sugar or if the fruit is just so ripe - however, the high acidity keeps the wine wonderfully in balance and it never once comes across as flabby or too sweet. Shows great vibrancy of fruit. Still very youthful in style - I can imagine this could actually benefit from further aging, although the wine drinks really nicely right now. Nice stuff. (89 pts.)

  • 2016 Loxarel Xarello A Pèl de Loxarel - Spain, Catalunya, Penedès (16.5.2021)
    An orange wine or skin-contact Xarel-lo: vinified completely without sulfites, spontaneously fermented with the skins for 4 weeks and then aged for further 3 months in 720-liter amphoras. 12,5% alcohol. Tasted blind.

Somewhat hazy and quite evolved, medium-deep yellow-orange color. Fine particles in the glass. Evolved and rather tertiary nose with aromas of hay, some resinous phenolic character, a little bit of bruised apple, light ethery notes of VA, a hint of oxidative nuttiness and an aged touch of smoke. The wine is dry, medium-bodied and slightly wild on the palate with flavors of hay, apple core and apple peel bitterness, some oxidative nuttiness, a little bit of savory exotic spices, light honeyed tones, a lifted hint of VA and a funky touch of brett. High in acidity, no obvious tannins. The finish is dry, quite acid-driven and rather evolved with flavors of tart green apples, some bruised red apples, a little bit of nuttiness, light ethery notes of VA, a hint of lemony citrus fruit and a touch of phenolic funk.

Too evolved, past its peak. Virtually everybody guessed orange wine right from the get-go, but everybody was guessing something much older - from the early to late 00’s, mainly. It came as a surprise that the wine was so evolved, but if I understood correctly, it had been kept for a year or two in room temperature, which might explain something. In its current condition definitely not worth the 19,89€. (81 pts.)

  • 2016 Kosovec Estate Winery Chkrlet - Croatia, Croatian Uplands, Moslavina, Voloder – Ivanić Grad (16.5.2021)
    A blend of Škrlet (75%) and Chardonnay (25%), hence the name. A brief maceration of a few hours to a day with the skins prior to the spontaneous fermentation on indigenous yeasts. Aged for 9 months in stainless steel. Vinified with very little to no SO2. 12,5% alcohol. Tasted blind.

Medium-deep golden-yellow color with an evolved, coppery core. Beguiling nose of gasoline, honeycomb, some ripe red apple, a little bit of waxy funk, light floral notes of honeysuckle and a hint of clay. Lovely! The wine is dry, somewhat waxy and quite intense on the palate with complex flavors of beeswax, some floral notes of honeysuckle, a little bit of leathery funk, light crunchy notes of fresh red apples and quince, a more exotic hint of mango and an evolved touch of caramel. The overall feel is quite structured, thanks to the racy acidity - typical of Škrlet - and a slightest hint of tannic tug on the gums. The finish is long, savory and ever-so-slightly grippy with a complex aftertaste of fresh red apples and some evolved bruised pear tones, a little bit of beeswax, light exotic notes of mango and quince, a phenolic hint of resinous character and a developed touch of caramel.

A very distinctive, compelling and balanced Croatian white. My first or second guess was Croatia, but I couldn’t say whether this was a white wine or a skin-contact white - and it’s not a wonder, if you check how the wine was made! Definitely not your typical run-of-the-mill wine, but nothing super-weird or particularly funky either. There is just lots of things going on here. Starting to show some evolved signs now, at 5 years of age, but it still isn’t mature or old in any way. I wouldn’t age this extensively, but I can imagine it will continue to improve for a few years more and keep a bit longer. A unique and very rewarding wine, a great purchase at 15€. (91 pts.)

Medium-deep honey-yellow color. Instantly recognizable, pungent and somewhat oxidative nose with intense, subtly sweet-toned aromas of sorrel and salted nuts, some smoke, a little bit of developed caramel character, light peachy notes, a mushroomy hint of voile yeast and a touch of apple core. The wine is rich, intense and medium-bodied on the palate with very saline flavors of lemony citrus fruits, some caramel tones, a little bit of nutty Tawny character, light sweet nuances of ripe apricots, a sharp hint of aldehydic green apple and salted nuts and a touch of mushroomy funk. The noticeably high acidity lends great intensity and sense of structure to the wine. The long, complex finish is intense with layered flavors of ripe lemony citrus fruits, some sweet notes of apple sauce, light aldehydic notes of salted nuts and sorrel, a little bit of mushroomy funk, a Tawny-ish hint of caramel and a touch of apple core.

A delicious, balanced and very classically built Château-Chalon with a somewhat evolved overall character for its age. Virtually everybody in the tasting was immediately in Jura, but we weren’t sure whether this was Vin Jaune or Château-Chalon - however, nobody guessed traditional Côtes du Jura (or any other sous-voile style of wine, for that matter). Based on its somewhat evolved, subtly Tawny-ish character, the guesses ranged from mid-00’s to early 90’s and people were slightly surprised that this was “only” 10 years old. However, all were in agreement that this was a very lovely Château-Chalon in every way. Exceptional sense of depth, complexity, structure and intensity here. Good value at approx. 40€. (95 pts.)

  • 2018 Sicus Penedès C. Marí - Spain, Catalunya, Penedès (16.5.2021)
    A “rosé” or cartoixà wine (i.e. skin-contact white) made with Xarel-lo Vermell aka. Cartoixà Marino aka. pink-skinned Xarel-lo from the El Peret vineyard planted 20 years ago. Labeled as “C. Marí”, but the producer refers to the wine as “Cartoixà Marí”. Vinified in whole bunches, fermented spontaneously and macerated with the skins for 10 days, then the free-run juice is racked into amphorae for the duration of one month to finish the fermentation. Left to age for 7 months in stainless steel. 9,5% alcohol. Total production 5452 bottles. Tasted blind.

Pale, subtly hazy peach-orange color. Wild, funky and quite noticeably bretty nose with aromas of barnyard and leather, some ripe red apples, light sappy notes of green herbs and a hint of juicy peach. The wine is lively, light-bodied and slightly acetic on the palate with a subtle tingle of CO2 and somewhat funky flavors of fresh apples, some bretty leather, a little bit of nail polish VA, light raspberry tones, a hint of red gooseberry and a touch of vinegary VA. High in acidity. The finish is fresh, quite acid-driven and rather short with light and somewhat funky flavors of leathery brett, some red apple tones, a little bit of sharp, acetic VA, light crunchy notes of redcurrants and a bitter hint of phenolic spice.

A light, refreshing and quite smashable rosé which suffers from slightly excessive funk. This isn’t super-natty and entirely unpleasant, like some extremist natural wines can be, but the rampant barnyardy notes of brett drown out most of the finer fruity nuances and especially the slightly vinegary edge of the VA takes its toll on the enjoyability here. I guess this would a very lovely low-alcohol summer rosé, but I’d prefer if the wine had been vinified with a hint of SO2 - probably then this would’ve turned out to be less anonymous funk bomb and something true to the variety. (83 pts.)

Evolved caramel color. Aged, oxidative nose with aromas of chopped nuts, some sorrel, a little bit of bruised apple, light saline notes of acetaldehyde and a hint of Sultana raisins. The wine is dry and rather oxidative on the palate with a medium body and very tertiary flavors of sorrel, mushrooms, some caramel tones, a little bit of Sultana, light apple core notes and a hint of sharp aldehydic character. Medium in acidity. The finish is old, oxidative and medium in lengthy with flavors of aldehydic salinity, some mushroomy tones, a little bit of Sultana and a hint of wizened peach.

This wine was quite impossible to guess, since it had turned so oxidative that nothing of its original fruit remained. With its oxidative, rather aldehydic character, the wine was quite aptly described as “like a fat Vin Jaune” - although it was quite obvious that the wine was not supposed to be like this, but it was already past its peak. NR (flawed)

  • 2007 Thymiopoulos Rosé de Xinomavro - Greece, Macedonia, Naoussa (16.5.2021)
    Although Thymiopoulos has a “Rosé de Xinomavro” in their range, this 2007 is a completely different beast to their normal rosé aged in stainless steel, as this particular vintage is the most recent release. The wine is made with late-harvested (mid-Octover) Xinomavro grapes from a single vineyard planted on a northeastern slope, macerated with the skins for 8-10 hours and fermented spontaneously with indigenous yeasts. Then the wine is aged for 4 years in 2nd use French demi-muids of 500 liters, followed by bottling and aging for another 8 years in the winery’s cellars before release. 13% alcohol. Tasted blind.

Fully translucent pale red-to-deep orange color. Very characterful, quite sunny and wonderfully complex nose with seductive aromas of fresh redcurrants and brambly raspberries, some tomato stalk, a little bit of savory wood spice, light meaty notes, a hint of leather and a developed touch of caramel. The wine is dry, firm and complex on the palate with a moderately full body and layered flavors of ripe red cherries and crunchy redcurrants, some savory oak spice, a little bit of wild strawberry, light leathery notes, a savory hint of meaty umami and a touch of evolved caramel character. The high acidity lends great sense of freshness, intensity and structure to the wine. The finish is very long, complex and beautifully evolved with layered flavors of sweet red cherries, some savory wood spice, a little bit of sour cherry bitterness, light stony mineral tones, a hint of leather and a touch of tomato stalk.

Holy moly. The wine did seem quite like a rosé wine when it was poured, but I was still quite unsure whether the wine was rosé or red because of its immense complexity, somewhat evolved character and rather deep, red-toned flavor. One of my guesses was Heredia’s Viña Tondonia Gran Reserva Rosado, which should give you some idea of the style - even if the cherry and tomato stalk notes really didn’t point out to Rioja. I was just at a loss where this kind of wine could come from. A very unique and compelling wine, hands down one of the greatest rosés I’ve had and one of the most singular Greek wines. Outrageous quality for the price at 26€ - this is one of those unicorn ones that nobody has even heard of. Very highly recommended. (96 pts.)

  • 2013 Topper’s Mountain Tannat Wild Ferment - Australia, New South Wales, Northern, New England (16.5.2021)
    Unlike the standard Topper’s Mountain Tannat, this release is fermented spontaneously with indigenous yeasts. The bottle says the wine is 14,5%, the website says 15,8%. Total production 1150 bottles. Tasted blind.

Quite deep blackish-red color with an evolved hint of figgy hue. Bold, sweet and sunny nose with rich aromas of smoke, some cherry marmalade, a little bit of minty greenness, light plummy tones and a hint of tar. The wine is somewhat robust and coarse on the palate with a rather full body and slightly sweet-toned flavors of dark plums and boysenberries, some cherry marmalade, light tarry notes, a little bit of jammy sweetness at the tip of the tongue, an evolved hint of dried figs and a touch of phenolic bitterness. The overall feel is moderately structured with the high acidity and relatively sparse but still quite tough, rustic and moderately grippy tannins. The high alcohol lends some obvious warmth to the palate. The finish is long, somewhat grippy and moderately bitter with quite intense flavors of sweet bilberries and chokeberry jam, tar, some minty herbal tones, a little bit of peppery spice, light sweet notes of toasty oak spice and extracted woody bitterness, a hint of dried figs and a touch of phenolic spice, which grows in bitterness towards the end of the aftertaste. The rather high alcohol makes the wine end on a somewhat warm note.

A big and interesting wine that really doesn’t manage to hit a bullseye with my taste, but still has some redeeming qualities. I enjoyed the savory qualities and nice, firm structure here, but overall the wine was a bit too sweet-toned, jammy and high in alcohol for my taste. Perhaps the tannin management would call for improvement as well - this really didn’t feel like a Tannat from Madiran, which normally have a huge wall of ripe, powdery tannins that are immensely grippy, but not aggressive. Here, however, the tannins felt surprisingly sparse for a Tannat, but the tannins that were present, felt somewhat coarse, grainy and aggressive, making the wine feel a bit tough and contributing quite a bit to the aggressive phenolic bitterness. Sure, a Tannat is almost always somewhat bitter due to its huge phenolic content, but here I felt the bitterness was sticking out a bit. So all in all, a rather good wine, but still a work in progress. The wine might continue to evolve here, but I doubt cellaring can fix the problems that were present now. (86 pts.)

Youthful, limpid pale green color. Fragrant and varietally very correct nose with aromas of ripe citrus fruits, some floral notes of apple blossom, light stony mineral tones, a little bit of evolved petrol character, a hint of peachy stone fruit and a gaseous touch of SO2. The wine is crisp, lively and racy on the palate with a light-to-medium body and precise flavors of lemon marmalade, some petrol tones, a little bit of tart green apple, light peachy notes, a floral hint of apple blossom and a touch of stony minerality. There seems to be a slightly gaseous overtone to the taste, perhaps a bit of SO2 cutting through? The bracing acidity lends great intensity and sense of structure to the wine. The finish is crisp, long and lovely with dry, mouth-cleansing flavors of tart lemony citrus fruits, some petrolly notes, a little bit of grapefruit marmalade, light sharp notes of Granny Smith apple, a hint of steely minerality and a floral touch of apple blossom.

A very fresh, crisp and tasty little Riesling. It was so obvious from the get-go that this is Mosel Riesling, so the only thing that took a bit of time was guessing the correct vintage. Still very youthful, so most likely the wine will continue to improve for many more years, although it drinks wonderfully right now. Not a super-memorable wine, just very enjoyable and excellent at what it is - a fresh, crisp summer Riesling. Very nice! (89 pts.)

  • 2005 Scarpa La Selva di Moirano - Italy, Piedmont, Vino da Tavola (16.5.2021)
    A still Brachetto that is fermented dry. Aged for 12 months in stainless steel. The label bears no vintage designation, apart from a small “05” scribbled at the winery in the corner of the label. 13,5% alcohol.

Evolved figgy reddish-brown color. Fragrant, evolved and somewhat sweetish nose with layered aromas of dried fruits, some ripe figs, a little bit of wizened red cherry, light beef jerky tones, a hint of rowanberry marmalade and a touch of earth. No obvious signs of Brachetto’s musky, Gewurztraminer-like nuances. The wine feels dry, evolved and medium-bodied on the palate with flavors of sour cherries, leather, some rowanberry marmalade a little bit of something metallic, light ferrous notes of blood, sweet hints of dried fruits like raisins and dried figs and a touch of licorice. The wine feels moderately high in acidity, whereas the tannins come across as quite sparse yet slightly rough and gritty. Despite this, the wine doesn’t come across as grippy, but instead silky yet firm. The finish is lively, slightly grippy and moderately bitter with a long, dry and quite evolved aftertaste of leather, wizened cherries, some raspberry tones, a little bit of raisiny fruit, light earthy notes, a hint of stony minerality, a touch of tobacco and an understated nuance of licorice.

A stylish and very nicely evolved old Brachetto. Perhaps the wine has thinned out a bit with age and gained a slightly metallic nuance to its taste, but otherwise the wine is at a lovely spot. I’d say the wine is peaking now and won’t improve from here, but most likely will keep good for years more. Drink or keep. Solid value at 20€. (90 pts.)

Youthful, very slightly translucent blackish-red color with a vibrant blueish hue. Still remarkably primary nose with very fruit-driven aromas of bilberries and forest fruits, some almost jammy dark berries, light inky tones and a slightly Beaujolais Nouveau hint of bubblegum. The wine is lively, surprisingly primary and medium-bodied on the palate with the slightest hint of tingly CO2 that disappears very quickly. Fruity flavors of ripe dark-toned fruits like bilberries, blueberries and dark plums, some sappy herbal tones, a little bit of brambly raspberry and a primary hint of bubblegum. The wine is very balanced and even somewhat surprisingly structured for a Dornfelder, thanks to its high acidity and slightly grippy medium-minus tannins. The finish is fresh, lively and tasty with youthful and quite long flavors of boysenberries and bilberries, some blackcurrant juice, a little bit of sappy herbal spice and a primary hint of strawberry bubblegum.

A very positive surprise: this was very balanced, fresh and even somewhat serious effort for a Dornfelder. I had no idea how Belgian wines would age, so I was expecting a 5-yo red wine to show already some signs of development, but instead the wine turned out to be super-youthful, as if it was bottled only a month or two ago! Although the wine was rather simple and linear as Dornfelders almost invariably are, it did show remarkable intensity, persistence and sense of structure, which are qualities I normally don’t associate with the variety. I wouldn’t be surprised if this wine continued to improve for another 5 years or even longer. Not a grand vin in any way, but nevertheless one of the best Dornfelders I’ve tasted. Good stuff, solid value at 10,50€. (88 pts.)

  • 2014 DeMorgenzon Chenin Blanc Reserve - South Africa, Coastal Region, Stellenbosch (16.5.2021)
    Made with fruit harvested from a vineyard planted in 1972, picked in four different tries. Fermented spontaneously in oak, aged for 11 months in oak barrels (25% new). 14,24% alcohol, 3,7 g/l residual sugar, 6,7g/l acidity and pH 3,30. Tasted blind.

Pale-to-medium-deep honey color. Sweet-toned, creamy and somewhat toasty nose with complex aromas of cooked cream, honey, some pineapple, light yellow apple tones, a little bit of woody sawdust, a floral hint of honeysuckle and a touch of ripe apricot. The wine is ripe, moderately full-bodied and slightly viscous on the palate with complex, somewhat evolved flavors of creamy oak, pineapple, some toast and browned butter, a little bit of red apple, light woody notes of sawdust, a sweet hint of honeydew melon and a touch of tangy saline minerality. The precise, almost racy acidity lends great sense of structure and intensity to the wine. The finish is rich, complex and very long with intense flavors of toasty oak, some crème brûlée, a little bit of pineapple, light mineral notes of tangy salinity, oaky hint of wood spice and browned butter and a touch of juicy, ripe apricots.

I had tasted the wine before, upon its release, and back then the wine felt just clumsy and woody. You could taste there was great fruit beneath the oak, but all you could really taste back then was the new oak influence. Didn’t think much of the wine that time. However, this time the wine was just singing! First many people guessed a very ripe vintage Burgundy with some age, perhaps 2009 - based on the obviously ripe, almost tropical fruit character and slightly noticeable alcohol of the wine - but then the guesses turned to new world Chardonnay. South African Chenin Blanc followed almost immediately. Overall the wine is very true to the style of South African Chenin, but what really took me by surprise was the complete transformation from an oaky new world wine to a very complex, almost Burgundian white with great sense of finesse and structure. The wine is drinking wonderfully right now, but it will in all likelihood continue to improve for at least a handful of years more - and keep good for much longer. Fine stuff, a bargain at 14,90€. (93 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

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Thanks for the TNs Otto, I’m a big fan of the Chenin from SA and I’ll agree with you that the Xarello wine you had was pretty horrible and similar to my experience. I know there are producers in Spain trying to make great Xarello alone but I have yet to have a good one.

Then you must’ve had a faulty bottle as well, because I’ve had some sound bottles of the same vintage of the same wine before. This was clearly oxidized, while the other weren’t. What I heard, the person who brought this particular bottle had kept it for two years in room temp, and since it’s a no-SO2 wine, it’s not a big surprise it had oxidized so badly.

I’ve had a few terrific Xarel-lo wines, but as a whole I’m not a big fan of the grape. When picked early, it works really well for the base wine in sparkling wines - and I’ve had some lovely 100% Xarel-lo Cavas - but at sparkling wine Brix it doesn’t really make interesting still wine. When picked at higher ripeness, more suitable for white wines, the variety tends to produce wines that are rather neutral and linear in style, showing mainly somewhat grassy herbal character and rather simple citrus flavors. Furthermore, at that ripeness the wines aren’t particularly high in acidity - probably the only characteristic that would be a redeeming quality in an otherwise neutral wine (as in, say, Muscadet or Loire Chenin). So all in all, I partly agree that it might be difficult to find a great still Xarel-lo.

Some Xarel-lo wines I’ve tasted that have left a positive impression:

  • Terroir al Límit Cartoixa - a skin-contact old-vine Xarel-lo from Priorat
  • Can Ráfols dels Caus Pairal - a very complex white Xarel-lo aged in old chestnut barrels
  • Celler Credo Estrany - a skin-contact Xarel-lo made by Recaredo, perhaps the best Cava producer out there
  • Raventós i Blanc Silencis - a slightly hazy and very Chablis-like Xarel-lo bottled unfined and unfiltered
  • Loxarel Xarel-lo Fermentat en Amfóres - a quite neutral and even austere white, but one that manages to turn that neutrality into a positive aspect
  • Can Descregut Vermell - a surprisingly rich, complex and Burgundian white made from the pink mutation of Xarel-lo
  • Parés Baltà Electio - a distinctive wine that is both surprisingly complex and quite austere both at the same time; made with fruit sourced from a biodynamically farmed 90-yo vineyard, i.e. some of the oldest vines in Penedès

BTW Sounds like your tasting was a great time. I’m a big cava fan of Raventos and Recaredo also ,but, haven’t tried any of their Xarel-lo wines. I must say since I don’t find alot to enjoy drinking them so far they can be nice and inoffensive but I don’t really seek them out,but, I’m happy to try them if I see them on a wine list and hopefully have a change of opinion.

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Otto,

Is there any additional designation on the Thymiopolous Rosé that distinguishes it from the basic steel wine? I only see Greek listings for this evocatively described 2007 vintage.

The craziest thing is that I think there is not. Thymiopoulos makes Rosé de Xinomavro, that is a regular stainless steel rosé, and then there is Rosé de Xinomavro 2007, which is - to my understanding - the only release of this exceptional wine to date. They are similarly named, but since the 2007 is a recent release, you won’t find any other older vintages. Also the labels are different - the stainless steel one is gray, the oak-aged is white and comes in a bottle with a waxed top.

https://www.thymiopoulosvineyards.gr/wines

I don’t know if Tvrtko could be of help, IIRC he knew this wine as well. Let’s see if I can summon him here with a blank quote.

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Not entirely sure what is meant by “designation”, but, because of everything that Otto has already mentioned, it would be quite difficult to confuse with the entry-level rose’.

Well, basically if you just search for Thymiopoulos’s Rosé de Xinomavro and the shop doesn’t have a picture of it, theoretically it could be either one, since there is no extra name or anything to tell them apart.

So the only thing there is is the vintage. It’s either 2007 or a recent vintage.

However, if they continue to release these rosés with prolonged aging, we might face a problem in the future where we can’t tell which wine it is from the name only.

Otto,
Thanks for the great notes. As always. Not wines that I know much about.

Been meaning to ask this each time you post - what is your process for taking notes at tastings? Your notes are some of the more complex/complete/detailed notes that I’ve seen. I’m curious about the actual mechanics. Are you jotting adjectives in real time and filling in details later? Or do you take the long detailed impressions we see here and just continue edit after tasting? I get how it works for me when I’m alone tasting one bottle or two at home, but you have an impressive ability to really lay out detailed notes on a large swath of wines at one sitting.

Don’t take this anything other than some curiosity about how you pull it off! Thanks.

Thanks, Dennis!

My process usually is going around everywhere with a Moleskine notebook. :smiley: When I’m at home and I have time to sit down for 5-10 minutes, I write these kinds of TNs directly on the computer. Otherwise, I just jot down short keywords in my notebook (or Google Docs, if notebook’s not at hand), but usually in similar level of detail - only in less verbose form.

I usually write 2-3 notes every morning and evening to CT, just to keep the backlog from exploding. I read my notes from my notebook (or Google Docs) and edit the short, listed note into a more detailed CT tasting note on the fly. If I have written some specs (from bottle label or tech sheet) or I have time to quickly google up some stuff, I include some technical details as well.

Normally my raw, unedited notes include 10-20 words per nose (descriptors and modifiers), taste and finish each and I try to have a short summary of a few words in the end. This is normally enough for me to bring back the wine back to my memory even after 10 years, which is good, since not always I remember to write the notes directly into CT. However, thanks to the level of detail, I can easily return to the wine mentally and write a note like I tasted the wine only yesterday, even if I actually tasted it 4-5 years ago.

However, this normally translated to me being a ridiculously slow taster. Normally in many tastings I’m usually the last person to leave. pileon :smiley: Fortunately there are one or two other people who obsess over detail at the same level, so I’m not the only one in our wine circles.

A propos, when I was doing wine judge stuff, I jotted down shorter, less detailed notes on the wines we were judging, so my record is something like 130 notes at one sitting. [crazy1.gif]

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Sad. A 5-year old white wine DOA.


BTW, aren’t false morels poisonous?
“When gathering morels for the table, care must be taken to distinguish them from the poisonous “false morels”, a term loosely applied to describe Gyromitra esculenta, Verpa bohemica, and other morel lookalikes. Although false morels are sometimes eaten without ill effect, they can cause severe gastrointestinal upset, loss of muscular coordination (including cardiac muscle), or even death.”

Doesn’t sound very appealing, even if covered up with pizza.

Thanks for the detailed response. Interesting to see how others approach notes. Our gatherings tend to be rather social, and I try to take notes, but it gets overwhelming with dozens of bottles in a non-clinical setting. I appreciate the insights. Thanks.

Hi Tvrtko, by “designation”, I was wondering if there was any difference in naming or packaging. Before asking the question I didn’t know that this 2007 was the only release of the rosé with different elevation so I was looking for help in locating it for purchase. Since there is just that one it makes things simple.

Thanks,
Jason

Thanks for the tasting notes Otto! It sounds like a great time. I am definitely going to have to search out the Thymiopoulos Rosé de Xinomavro.

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I imagine if Otto lived a thousand years ago he would be a cloistered monk copying manuscripts. :slight_smile:

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Indeed they are! However, they are (justifiably) considered a delicacy in Northern Europe and virtually every Finn from a small child to an old geezer knows false morels are poisonous and should not be eaten untreated. Nor should one pick morels if they don’t know the difference between a morel and a false morel.

However, the poison in false morels is water soluble, so boiling the mushrooms twice in copious amont of water, discarding the water between the boils is enough to render the mushrooms harmless.

Some people think that just drying the mushrooms is enough to make them edible, but that isn’t true, since the amount of poison can vary widely from one mushroom to another, so a lot of poison can remain in some dried mushrooms. Most poisoning cases seem to be because of cases where people have eaten dried mushrooms. I haven’t ever heard of anyone getting any symptoms from twice-boiled false morels.

Frankly, I don’t really get the concern. Why would anyone even buy from a shop doing such a lousy job presenting its wines that it makes no explicit distinction between these two very different wines? But, if pressed, I suppose you could always simply send them an e-mail to make sure which is which.

Yes, I get it now. As Otto said, the label is different and so is the closure. If you can’t see what it looks like, basically, if it’s the one we’re talking about, it should say “2007”. If it doesn’t say “2007”, then it probably ain’t this one :slight_smile:

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‘Never heard of Xinomavro done as Rose. Such a tannic grape with full contact but the process you describe sounds a good way to tame those.
Something to search for.
Best, jim

Not that uncommon in Macedonia, they use it to produce rose’, sparkling and occasionally even white wine :slight_smile: