2011 Taittinger CdC Released

£535 per 6 in the UK. Seems about 15% lower than the original 08 release price but a lot less fan fare.

But I think it’s still quite a bit higher than the 07 release price?

Yes, I think the '07 release price was £450 per 6 in May '18. There was still a lot of '04 and '06 in the market back then and those were released in '13 and '15, respectively I believe. Those were the days when you could snag Comtes for the equivalent of $100 US/bottle and sometimes less.

I was told by someone in the UK who tried the '11 the other day that it had nice “Comtes” nose but was a bit lacking on the mid-palate. Sounds similar to my first impressions of '07 which I think has gotten better with age, but something that I am more likely to sell than drink. I am going to skip '11 and wait for '12. Btw, Taittinger had publicly stated that there was not going to be an '11 Comtes. Not sure why they changed their mind.

Edited: I went back and checked the '08 release and there was an initial tranche at £535 (about $115 US at the time) but they allocated at that price. Now it trades around £800.

Why are some houses even releasing tete de cuvees for 2011? Even if they are not outright bad, they’re probably a poor value, and given the reputation of the vintage, would seem difficult to sell.

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I’m confused as to why they’ve done this, but didnt release an 09 or a 10.

Personally going to sit on it until 2012 comes out

Yet? Maybe they are holding out for a late release.

my understanding is that they didn’t declare a vintage for those years per brad, wk and others.

I’m not a fan of most 09s, and even fewer 2010s.

I would have scrapped all 3, but I have no idea what the economics are behind any of this.

Keep in mind that the world was falling apart between 2008 and 2011, so a lot of houses made decisions based on the economic market (hence the tiny productions of Salon and Krug)

I’m a fan of 09; Vilmart cdc, dp, and cdg are all great.

not to be harsh, but is that relevant? The NV is aged on lees for 3-4 years minimum already, so even 2008 will be out of recession by the time its ready to make a decision if it goes into NV or V?

That was apparently the explanation that Krug gave over the small production for 2008. Salon had other factors too, but did cut back.

Easier to sell Champagne for $50/$60 a bottle than $150/$160, and have to sit on the inventory.

I was at Dom Ruinart dinner years ago hosted by Zachy’s and Fred Panaiotis and the wine of the night for me was '93. Fred said a lot Houses did not make a '93 because the market was still suffering from the '91 recession. It was a financial decision, not a quality decision even though the cash proceeds from the sale of NV Champagne that these grapes would end up in would not be realized for a few more years.

There are also other unique situations - remember when Premier Cru bailed out Haut Brion? (Note: this was sad rumor being spread at the time to justify PC’s ridiculous pricing, this did not actually happen).

I was surprised to get an offer on the 2011 as well - and as surprised by the price ($199). But I didn’t know they had skipped 2009/10. 2011 is an easy pass but I would have bit on ‘09 to give it a whirl.

How can producers skip releases in the midst of nasty recessions? My guess is that it’s all about current business economics. In a multi year downturn businesses have less capital to work with. They might even be afraid of insolvency - they have no idea when the recession will end. So businesses get very conservative. Barrels, bottles, etc. all cost a lot of money, so deferring or skipping those costs might start to make sense.

And Taittinger is also a family owned and operated business. They surely don’t have the same deep pockets that other producers who are a part of the LVMH portfolio have.

so for 08, I agree, but 08 harvested end of 08 and then aging in 09, 4 years on lees means its 2013… and of course what Krug did was kept it separate, thus later this year will be releasing an 08 Krug

I just dont understand how a recession on t can impact your decision to release a wine in t+5 years - you might declassify some of the wines you’re aging right now, and go for volume by pushing NVs, I get that.

Take a look at the last two posts. They have some guesses as to why Taittinger might invest less in building up supply of champagne during a recession. I’ll try to break it down more (I have no inside info, consider this hypothetical).

  1. Taittinger is doing well and the vintage is shaping up nicely. It’s a family run business owned/funded by a large national bank, with a good reputation and a couple years worth of costs in the bank, plus a nice backlog of vintages sitting on their lees. In mid summer the housing market in the US (one of their biggest markets) is collapsing and taking the rest of the US market down, as well as the rest of the world. By the end of the year the global economy is in tatters. Sales are falling. Q4 holiday sales (normally big for Champagne) stink.

  2. The recession is getting worse. Major buyers in the US and UK are asking to have their minimums reduced. Owners (Credit Agricole) are taking massive losses like all major global banks.

Late winter: planning is proceeding for the 2009 vintage. Taittinger’s CEO sits down with the CFO and asks ‘how bad can this get?’. The CFO’s response is stark - well, we have three years of cash and a ton of value in our cellars (but nobody is buying) so if we can get through this recession we’ll be in good shape. But our owners are getting destroyed and won’t be able to backstop us if things get ugly.

‘Ok, says the CEO, let’s cut spending to the minimum. Let’s buy as few grapes as we can, and none of those fancy barrels for storing the Comtes. Survival is our top priority.’ Q4 sales are even worse than 2008. LVMH calls to see how things are going. ‘We’ll never sell to those corporate vultures’ says the CEO while privately taking the call and thinking about it. The owners (Credit Agricole) review the planning with the CFO and approve, while worried.

  1. The recession is still really bad, though glimmers of hope are emerging. Still Taittinger is burning cash and nobody is buying. CEO and CFO decide to spend even less. No Comte again. The harvest is mediocre. Q4 sales pick up and this is considered a good sign.

  2. The markets and sales are recovering. Planning goes forward as if this is a normal year. Everyone is relieved, Taittinger has survived once again due to the conservative thoughtful planning of management. Sadly the vintage is marred by bad weather but they proceed to bottle Comtes anyway. They know it can be sold eventually.

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Okay - the key point I was missing there is the grower vs producer. If you’re a grower, I cant see how it makes a difference as you arent buying the grapes anyway, and you’re already aging on lees, etc. As a buyer, yep, that’s a fair point.

2011 Vilmart CdC is also excellent.

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