Young Nebbiolo: what to do with a problem like 2016 Bartolo Mascarello Langhe?

Before I get told these are too young, they are being opened at a remote location with limited options:

Sat eve:
2017 Produttori del Barbaresco, Torre (PnP)
2014 Produttori del Barbaresco, Torre (open Sat am, no decant)
2014 Produttori del Barbaresco, Riserva Montestefano (open Fri midnight, decant 30 mins before drinking)

Sun eve:
2018 Ratti Ochetti Langhe Nebbiolo (PnP)
2016 Bartolo Mascarello Langhe (???)

N.B. From AG’s tasting note, I get the impression the BM Langhe may behave more like a serious Barolo… ie shutting down now?

I have put them in the order we (currently) plan to drink with (proposed) opening times. I will taste as I go but these are the starting points.

Any views on how to approach the Bartolo Langhe, how wrong I am getting the others or alternative ordering would be very gratefully received. Assume hearty fare.

I will report back with notes in return!

I wouldn’t open any of those ahead of time or decant. They’re all young enough that they might shut down with aeration. There have been threads on this, and some people insist on lots of air for young Nebbiolo, but I’ve seen them shut down with air many times, where I’ve been able to compare a bottle open for hours (usually decanted for that long) with a just-opened bottle of the same wine. The just-opened bottle is often significantly better.

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Just open the Bartolo and don’t fret so much, it’s made to be drunk young.

Thanks Doug. Interesting perspective.

The one wine of these I have a lot of experience with is the 2014 Torre. I have drunk that every which way and by far the best result (in the past 12 months) is with a lot of air. Without that (again, recently) it is tight as can be. With air it is open, bright and smooth.

Thanks, Jon. I will take a breath.

My most recent bottle of the Mascarello was in February. Popped and poured. It was excellent on opening although the tannins were fairly potent. After a couple of hours they softened and the package was a bit smoother. Didn’t last much longer. I’d do the same again. It’s a treat.

Based on a single tasting of the Ochetti at the winery, I’d not worry about that one - as it felt like a classic table wine nebbiolo, for drinking young with food and not paying much attention to. That said, it was only a single data point, albeit one that left little doubt on that bottle.

Opinions are strong and varied on this, but I have never had an issue with young produttori shutting down. I had the 14 Montestefano that did well after a 5 hr decant.

This comment maybe too late, but if you have that many different options I would open the 14 with air as you plan because you are familiar with it. Then open a few that you hope are good options for pnp about 30 minutes ahead of time and drink the one that is the most ready. Periodically check the other ones in the bottle for a few hours and then decide what to save for the next day.

Please let us know how it worked out for you.

Thanks for all the comments. Results/notes below.

As ever, things took a few twists and turns which is a good lesson in itself. The best laid plans…

Night 1

Prod 17 - PnP. Bright cherry on the nose and a little bit medicinal. Tannins and acid fairly prominent on the palate but overall was very drinkable after a few mins in the glass. Did not show much complexity even later that night or the following evening (we saved a glass). Would happily PnP again (this year at least).

Prod 14 - Opened at 11am no decant. Poured at 8pm. More complex nose. It had the same cherry/cough medicine notes (which I personally love) but a more nuanced and savoury profile. Totally open with almost no perceptible tannin but plenty of acidity (in a good way). Others commented that the lack of tannin made the wine feel unbalanced and a little thin but for me it worked. I have heard Aldo Vacca call 2014 Burgundian and that fits for me. It is a little thin on the mid palate but lovely long finish with tobacco finish. Very similar on the second night if perhaps a little more muted.

Night 2

Montestefano 2014 - Opened at 9am. No decant (taking a more cautious approach following comments about tannins above). Poured at 7pm. Blockbuster nose. Rich violets and slightly musky red fruit. Slightly darker than the Torre wines but still translucent and a lovey ‘thick’ mouthfeel. Certainly some robust tannin but all in balance. I would say it was not fully open on the palate; in terms of flavour it was relatively one-dimensional. But very good and plenty of room to improve.

Bartolo Langhe (PnP) - Completely oxidised (I assume). Green apples on the nose and palate made it undrinkable.
A shame but I have 2 more which I hope will be ok.

Michele Chiarlo Barbaresco Reyna 2017 (a sub for the Ratti Langhe) - Brett Brett Brett. Not the worst I have come across but not drinkable for me. The brett completely obscured the fruit. However, strangely, the next day the bottle was much better and some fruit came through. Still a touch of brett if you really looked for it but I might not have noticed if not for the first day experience. Not really possible to give any notes.

P.S. I should say that when I say ‘opened’, I mean opened and a tiny pour to taste/make a bit of room for more air.

Thanks for the notes.

You may be overthinking this a bit… Don’t look at it as a “problem”, just enjoy the wines (too bad, though, that the Bartolo was flawed)

Almost no perceptible tannins? Doesn’t sound like the Produttori 2014 I know. In our recent PdB vertical it had ample and grippy tannins. Not the most tannic vintage out there, but definitely sporting a healthy grip on the gums. Agree on the plenty of acidity part, as 2014 was among the vintages we tasted probably the highest in acidity.

I can understand that thinness, because it was probably the lightest and most delicate vintage in the tasting (or tied with 1996) and pretty Burgundian in style, but definitely not lacking in tannins in any way.

That seems like a strange flaw, and not something I’ve ever experienced. My first thought was maybe VA, but a Google search says maybe Acetaldehyde. Did you check on it the next day to see if it resolved at all?

I’ve had several young yet aldehydic Nebbiolos, some even very pricey wines.

Elevated levels of acetaldehyde can be caused by many things and it is often confused with oxidation as acetaldehyde is the main component of an oxidized wine (basically if you smell a wine that smells of acetaldehyde, your immediate reaction is to think “this is oxidized” because we associate the compound so readily with oxidation). However, a wine can be heavily aldehydic without being oxidized - for example many Vins Jaunes of Jura show relatively little oxidation yet very noticeable aldehydic character. Manzanilla and Fino Sherries even more so without any obvious characteristics of oxidation (deep yellow color, nuttiness, caramel notes, dried fruit flavors). This is because the flor / voile protects the wine from oxidation but produces high levels of acetaldehyde in the process.

And these aforementioned young but aldehydic Nebbiolos that I’ve had showed quite a bit of acetaldehyde, but no obvious notes of oxidation (brown dull or hazy color, nuttiness, soy sauce aromas, dried fruit flavors). Only if acetaldehyde comes with the other characteristics typical of oxidation the wine is oxidized. Otherwise it is just faulty because of elevated levels of acetaldehyde - possibly a result of microbial spoilage.

Thanks Otto, that’s why I found the thought of oxidation odd if the main characteristic was overwhelming green apple. Cider, overripe apple maybe I associate more with oxidation but green apple seems a very bright and acidic sensation for me to associate with the more tired and advanced notes I expect from oxidized reds.

Andy K - I may well be overthinking… you may also be taking my subject title a little too literally. :wink:

Otto - My comment about lack of tannin on the 2014 might not have been quite right on reflection and was perhaps influenced by the “unbalanced” and “thin” comments by another taster. Having said that, it was very smooth and this has been my experience when I give the 2014 a long slow-ox (PNP it and the tannin is very obvious/ drying). I should also say that we all thought the wine was very good.

Michae1 - Again, my ‘green apple’ comment may have confused things. It was certainly apples. And there was certainly an acidic/sour edge to it for me. But I wonder if someone else might well have said cider or overripe apples.

We did keep it and even (cleverly we thought) put it in the fridge to preserve it as well as possible overnight… unfortunately a hungry family member then smashed the bottle in the morning. rolleyes For what it is worth, I did try to small the debris and there was no obvious apple aroma but we will never really know (although I assume from Otto’s comment that he would consider a recovery of the fault unlikely?).

I shall open another and report back on the evolution if it is also flawed (after I have a little chat with the merchant).

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Drinking Bartolo is a problem? [scratch.gif]

I tasted the other two bottles this weekend. The first had the same fault - sour green apples - and was undrinkable. The second was good as far as I could tell. Note below.

2016 Langhe, Bartolo Mascarello - Double decanted due to broken cork. Drank immediately. Quite closed on the nose with a little dark fruit and some violet notes. High acid initially and medium+ tannins. Very tight but clearly a dense and complex wine. Not what I would normally expect from a Langhe Rosso (no red/cherry fruit character at all for example) but I was somewhat prepared for something more substantial given the vintage and the producer. Dark fruit, some spice and a medicinal quality overall. The acidity mellowed a little with air and there seemed to be multiple layers of stuffing which was just not quite showing yet.

Assuming I receive like for like replacements of the faulty bottles I will keep for a few years. Based on my experience/taste this is not a wine to drink now unless you have several/are curious.

I’m more than a day late and more than a dollar short, but here’s what I would have done:

Sat eve:
2017 Produttori del Barbaresco, Torre (PnP)
2014 Produttori del Barbaresco, Torre (open Sat am, no decant)
2014 Produttori del Barbaresco, Riserva Montestefano (open Fri midnight, decant 30 mins before drinking)
Pop these all on Saturday evening, pour an ounce, put the corks back in (in case of fruit flies or other invaders) and leave them at cool room temp until Sunday evening.

Sun eve: No, Saturday evening pop 'n pour
2018 Ratti Ochetti Langhe Nebbiolo (PnP)
2016 Bartolo Mascarello Langhe (???)

Dan Kravitz