Experience with Ullage?

Has anyone had experience buying/drinking bottles with ullage? Any fill levels you avoid? Any regions, producers, vintages to seek out (or avoid)?

I’ve been hesitant to bid on any bottle with ullage, but this Decanter article may change my mind.

ullage of course depends on original fill, age of wine, storage conditions. Generally one learns what acceptable fills are for the wines they seek and decide based on that and provenance. Burgundy tolerates ullage better than most varieties. Worse ullage than expected should command a lesser price and caveat emptor.

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I don’t think there are any hard and fast predictive rules. You can certainly insist on a certain level if you want to be safe, but I’ve taken the chance on some old bottles with very low levels where they were cheap, figuring there was a good chance they’d be shot, and they turned out to excellent. For example, a 1970 Gruaud Larose three years or so ago was low shoulder level but was solid and delicious.

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I agree with Alan and John, but that article has a few things that are more risky than my personal tolerance. They say mid-shoulder is not abnormal for a 30 year old wine in claret bottles? I would not personally buy a 1989 or 1990 Bordeaux with MS fill. I have bought 50-60 year old bottles with MS fill, but even then tempered my bid
John, with the Cordier bottles of that era low shoulder is really low, you were lucky.
I’m more tolerant in Burg especially if color good.

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I had a lot of 66, 70 and 75 Gruauds (all bought between 1978 and 1980) and with the oddball bottle shape they used at the time, it was hard to define fill level. I have had a few that were pretty low. However, they were all sound, enjoyable bottles.

John: They were not as good as Saxum and SQN, but I still liked them. neener

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As stated by both Alan and John, there are many variables to consider and this is certainly one of them.

When buying from on line auctions were they show a photo of the bottle, one can at least see what the ullage is and in some case even the color as well as any evidence of seepage or soiled label or cork push or…

I’ve used the ullage as an indicator for viability on bottles from producers I’m familiar with such as for Burt Williams made wines from 1997 and older. Burt always filled each bottle to the cork; so, when I see mid shoulder fill as I have recently on a 95` Williams Selyem RRV Pinot, I passed. Yes, it may have been OK, but that’s a huge and atypical amount of disparity for this wine.

I agree with a lot of the sentiment here.

I try to bid only on base neck and above or 2cm or less on wine younger than 30 years. I might go up to high shoulder or 4 cm for something 40 years of age. I will not likely bid on anything mid-shoulder or 5cm or above. Too much good wine out there to take that risk.

7cm on a 30 y/o wine? [wow.gif] Any bottle around that age I’ve opened with 5cm ullage or more has been shot due to cork failure.

I just looked at my 2 bottles of '62 Gruaud, at 59 both into neck (it’s a long neck!). Even high shoulder is pretty significant ullage for those Cordier bottlles, auction house usually describe those bottles by cm like Burg. But glad your bottles were good!

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9 times out of 10 unless the color of the wine is off, the wines beat expectations by a mile! I remember a transcendental 1989 Beaucastel that had ullage to the high shoulder. Also a high shoulder DRC Grands Echezeaux from 1978 that was magical. Mid shoulder or lower wines can be a little more risk. For the right color and money, I am willing to shoulder the risk for a high upside.

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What Don said.

Here is what I learnt having spent an hour walking around the storage warehouse across the road with Eric at Berns; colour is everything. Eric who knows old wines better than anyone (other than Francois Audouze) focused almost entirely on colour. We were looking for 1950s and early 1960s red burgundies and Eric shone his phone torch thru each bottle and selected the ones with the darkest colour, basically ignoring ullage completely. He said this never failed him - it certainly did not fail us the times we were at Berns. Berns has immaculate provenance for their older bottles which helps tremendously

So for me it is; Provenance and colour are primary and ullage is secondary (but still important)

Cheers brodie

I’m really surprised to read that a high ullage wine would not be oxidized. But good to know! Can’t quite understand how this can be (the cork’s seal would have been disrupted thus leading to oxidation) but perhaps if it occurs very slowly over time and the wine is high in anti-oxidants (e.g., high tannins in its youth) everything balances out.

FYI: Fred Swan considers high ullage the #1 issue to watch for when evaluating older bottles:Aged Wine - How to Evaluate Condition Without Opening It - FredSwan.wine

Hi David, look I agree this ullage - lack of oxidation thing kind of does not make sense but here is another anecdote: About 15 years ago in Houston we were at a small wine dinner for very old wines. One guy brought a 1949 Cheval Blanc, the ullage was high shoulder but not too bad. Once the foil was removed the cork dropped into the bottle, it had only remained in place because of the foil. We all looked on in horror. The wine was wonderful and beyond anyone’s expectations. A great bottle indeed after an inauspicious start.

brodie

I have had numerous bottles with very poor ullage (low shoulder or less) where the wine has shown remarkably well. The colour and clarity of the wine is the key. A scientist friend of mine believes that nitrogen may form in the head space of some lower ullaged bottles, thus protecting the wine from oxidation.

Winebid does not describe the color. :frowning:

Any other auction sites I should consider? Keep in mind that I am a bottom feeder, at least until the kids get to/out of college. My biggest spend has been a 2005 E Pira & Figli Cannubi for $70.

Alan Rath has posted about how little oxygen penetrates a wine sitting in a decanter (leaving aside the oxygen introduce by pouring into the decanter). So perhaps part of the explanation is that a well-stored bottle that hasn’t been moved a lot doesn’t absorb that much oxygen from whatever is in the head space.

The level a little low on this auction lot [snort.gif]

I must admit I’ve never seen ‘below label’ as a description of the level (and looking at the other shots, it is indeed just below the bottom of the label.

This is a local auction house and I must say I’m unimpressed with them accepting it for sale. Along with the wooden box, it’s of more use to a faker than a wine enthusiast.

Yes. My response: “You’ll age fine.”

Even for Norfolk this is seriously weird! “Buyer beware”? Perhaps it has been Coravined!

That’s hilarious! The estimate suggests this is expected to sell based on the value of the label, not the contents.