Three OR pinot comparisons

Dipping my toes into Oregon Pinot, figured I would start with an order of lower priced wines to get a sense of producer style. Opened three last night with my wife:

2019 Patricia Green Cellars Reserve - least favorite of the night, seemed to have more fruit and more oak, made for an enjoyable and flavorful first sip but was not something I wanted multiple glasses of.

2017 Eyrie Estate - Wife’s favorite OR Pinot so far, so it’s the standard comparison bottle. Much less oak flavor on this, lots of earthy/funk, plenty of acidity and nice tannins, background of red fruit. Tasted the next day and this improved more. 2nd favorite the night we opened, favorite the next day.

2017 Goodfellow Ribbon Ridge - very pretty red fruit with abundance of acidity, nice tannin finish. Opened up considerable throughout the the night, glass the next day was still improving. Very pretty, clean, tart wine, easy to drink. I think I prefer the clean flavors in this wine in general over some of the funk/earthy notes that other Pinot Noir has. I enjoy those notes when they are in balance, the Eyrie had this balanced, but it’s often overpowering in other wines.

My main questions for you all:

1. Is the Patricia Green Reserve representative of their higher end single vineyard bottles? I get the sense that a lot of smaller OR wineries produce all their wine aiming for a similar taste profile, then split the finished product into single vineyard versus ‘Willamette Valley’ or ‘Ribbon Ridge’ based on the quality of each barrel. That’s how the Goodfellow and Eyrie felt, so good representation of their house style but at a lower quality (and price) point. The Patricia Green Reserve felt like it was made to spec as a product in and of itself as opposed to being their declassified wine, so maybe not a good representation of their single vineyard offerings?

2. How much should I read into how the wines tasted on day two as a representation of how much more age they need? The Goodfellow had very high acidity which continued to tone down over the evening/next day. Would this benefit from aging, even as their lower end product?

Yes to the aging on the 2017 Ribbon Ridge. Though YMMV as to when it should be opened.

The 2017 vintage is a structured vintage with savory fruit and good acidity as a whole. More so than some other recent vintages. That said, Whistling Ridge really seems to become more integrated after a number of years in bottle(7 years is where I usually start to check in) and will continue to evolve and blossom for years after that.

I don’t know how other wineries operate but I doubt many do it the way you’re describing and that’s certainly not the way we do it. That’s our entry level Willamette Valley bottling that has almost no new oak (less than 5%) and is fruit forward because it’s meant and priced to be drunk on the younger side of things although, given things that are in it, tends to do fine with 10+ years of bottle age.

Drank the 17 WR PN this week and it showed very well. Lots of acid, that’s good in my book today and excellent for those interested in aging.

Jim, is there whole cluster in there?

The oak /WC can be confused. I know first hand.

You get that sense from trying 3 btls of an entire region?? if you are just dipping your toes in…

Thanks for the response, I have a lot to learn for sure. With the lack of new oak, what accounts for the mid-palate spice/wood flavor, is that whole cluster? It sounds like your single vineyard offerings are a different style, less fruit forward?

How great is it that somebody posts a question comparing three wines and the first two responses are from two of the three winemakers? Really cool.

Had to look it up. Exactly 33% of the barrels that make this wine up range from 33% to 100% (far more 100% than 33 or 50) whole cluster. I don’t know what that translates into overall percent. I don’t really think it works that way though. A 50% whole cluster fermented wine is different than a 50% whole cluster wine that is half 100% whole cluster and half 100% destemmed. Nonetheless, the presence of whole cluster fermentation should be evident. There were 5 new barrels out of 168 (3%) and 127 neutral barrels (76%).

I am seriously geeking out on this.

of the three wineries, I think in general Patricia Green benefits the most from a decent amount of cellar time, all the way up and down the lineup. they evolve really well and are pretty big as far as Oregon goes for the first few years. it makes me sometimes feel exactly as you described but it incorporates so well over time and really smooths the edges and integrates well.

for the record, im not saying that Goodfellow does NOT benefit from aging. but I think you get a better sense of the wines from Goodfellow right outta the gate than you do PGC due to the style.

if you look on CT, you can see that is really well reflected in the drinking windows. for example, the PGC Ribbon Ridge bottling on average has drinking windows starting 3ish years after vintage whereas Goodfellow is the next year. I dont often put much stock in that particular feature of CT but ive always noticed that with PGC wines.

also yes, that spicy note is probably whole cluster

I opened three bottles last night, I’ve had more than 3 from the region.

Yes, it’s the sense I get from tasting wines and from what I know happens in the bourbon industry. I assume there is variation in finished product, with whiskey that’s dealt with by tiering your product line, would make sense to do something similar with wine. I’m learning for sure, don’t mind being wrong and appreciate people pointing it out, I’ll note that Jim confirmed the taste profile of the Reserve is as intended which was my hunch.

Yeah, that’s what I suspected. It’s the whole cluster. Fair enough, some dont enjoy that and in PN and it can be interpreted as oak.

The good news is whole cluster integrates but the big oak treatment, not so much.

All this being said a number of years ago I think the PG reserve opened my eyes to what Oregon Pinot is/can be and I will always be grateful!

Ah ok. I’m not an expert in Oregon wine either but from what I’ve seen it’s not quite like the bourbon industry.

To answer your second question. I don’t think extended aeration (day 2) gives indication of aging potential. That’s the case for any region btw in my opinion. I do think most well made Oregon pinots can age a long time.

We had a 2012 Patricia Green Reserve a couple of months ago, and it still tasted young yet ready to drink. Vastly over delivered for a mid-week casual wine.

2017 Goodfellow wines need at least a few more years to shake out the nuts and bolts, and are built for 20+. Same with Eyrie, which makes it amazing how good they taste long before their peak drinking window.

Good discussion, all. Brian, I remembered I’d posted a bit on your question on ageing as a response to a thread starter and found this thread, hope it may be helpful

https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2545714#p2545714

Mark will remember the tasting we were at that was the subject of my first posted note in that thread

Lots to discuss here— regarding how/whether small OR wineries develop a house taste profile, it’s of course true to an extent based on the many wine making practices and decisions that will inevitably influence all the wines produced by a winery (use of whole cluster, % new oak, free run vs. press wine use, extraction style (length of macération, # and types of punchdowns vs. pumpovers vs délestage), type/quality of equipment, cellar conditions, etc) but most of us are seeking diversity of expression based on any number of factors.

You will notice for example that many small wineries make Pinot Noir from multiple vineyards and AVAs to give you a small journey through the multiple expressions of Oregon’s AVAs and terroir. Others (such as me) focus one or two vineyards or their own estate (wish I could afford it!) to explore the variation of that one site, and with all the different clones (blends and/or single block/clone bottlings). I decided to pursue this route for example because I quickly realized that it would be impossible to obtain all 6 Pinot Noir clones at the Cortell-Rose Vineyard without a 10 to 15 ton purchase agreement… And then I want also to explore three styles with all those clones: 100% destemmed (Colette), 100% whole cluster (Ariane) and a blend of the two (Marie-Paule). By the way, I have never had a client or wine critic characterize the 100% WC Ariane as oaky — to me oaky is vanilla, mocha, caramel, etc. and WC is more freshness, lighter (sometimes candied) fruit, savory and spice notes, sometimes salinity in its youth (green olive, Cab Franc-like pyrazines) (but not the vanilla/etc.).

In terms of Willamette Valley vs. single-vineyard some/many, but certainly not all, will separate all the press wine from various vineyards and this becomes the core (or 100%) or the declassified wine; or 9/10 months in barrel vs. 16/18 months; but many more will use blending trials from all barrels to make the decision. As a side note, I like to incorporate the press and free run wine in each barrel (learned this from experience and from Antica Terra, Hiyu, Mylan and others). I like the added texture, phenolics (tannins and such) and depth of flavor the press wine provides. Side not # 2: Longer barrel maturation for me does not automatically make a reserve wine: I use it depending on the phenolics of various cuvées (tannins, etc). I have noticed that some wineries’ reserve wines will have a higher percentage of new oak, which in turn requires longer barrel and bottle maturation times. (I don’t use new oak at all.)

Regarding your second question about Day 2, I always use this as a test to see how the wine MIGHT progress over time. The Day 2 test is a lot of oxidation, certainly more than the oxygen ingress that accompanies bottling (mostly from O2 released by the compression of the cork at bottling over the first 12 months or so). We heard a wine maker from Burgundy a few years ago tell us he preferred the “last drop” method (smell your empty glass after 2 or 3 minutes.) If the wine fails the Day 2 test in a funky way that’s a sign to me that the bottles could need to be very, very carefully cellared at 55F or below. If it passes the Day 2 test it’s certainly a good sign (I’ve had a few bad surprises based on this test, but not many).

Hope this helps!

Just as a data point the whole cluster in the Ribbon Ridge is about 66% by aggregate, but that wine is a grouping of puncheons between 50-100% stems.

It’s worth noting that barriques, IMO, give more flesh to Pinot Noir than bigger barrels do, and even newer 500L generally don’t give the same opulence that the 228L barrels do.

Also, alcohol gives both richness and is a solvent, so higher abv will generally give a greater weight to the wines and also increase perception of oak. Not saying the PGC is high alcohol, everything is relative and the Ribbon Ridge is a, relatively, low alcohol wine.

We definitely have a “house style”, and that does extend down to the entry level wines. But the “house style” isn’t intended to cover the terroir and give a similar experience to all of our wines. Quite the opposite, I want to see the variation in terroirs more than anything else.

I just believe that cellared wines provide the highest highs in my experience with red wine, and in order to cellar well, you need adequate and mature acids, fine but significant tannin, a focus on dry extract rather than sweet fruit, and lower alcohols. But we do handle the fruit from each vineyard differently, aside from native yeast and fermenter size(smaller 1.5 ton 4’x4’x4’ bins).

Nice introduction. To get a better sense of producer style, you need to taste a handful of different bottlings from each IMHO, although you need to start somewhere. It’s fun homework, and a remarkable opportunity to learn more from the winemakers themselves.

RT