Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-Dury

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Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-Dury

#1 Post by Viet Ly »

2016 Ulysse Collin Champagne Extra Brut Blanc de Noirs Les Maillon
NV Jacques Selosse Initial
2012 Chartogne-Taillet Champagne Chemin de Reims
I decided to decant the Ulysse Collin because I saw Rob Pavlovich decanted this exact wine recently on his IG. This was the first time I’ve decanted a champagne and I believe this wine benefited from it. During a wine dinner with many guests we have a small pour/small window to allow the wine to shine. Bringing the temp up and taking away some of the bubbles allowed the wine qualities to really shine through: loads of mineral notes, light red fruit, chiseled acidity, nice intensity and persistence. I think there was a question regarding the color but it seemed consistent with other notes out there, a slight salmon hay color. I think it’s a wonderful food wine but not as overtly delicious as the next wine.
The Selosse had beautiful yellow fruit that just expands in the palate with a wonderful mouthfeel and long finish. Curtis made fun of me because I’ve been using “delicious” a lot lately when talking about wine. This wine was extra delicious and a perfect celebration Champagne. First time drinking wine from this producer but from reading notes it sounds like others find oxidative notes. I did not with this bottle but am curious to hear what others think. I guessed blanc de blanc but wasn’t sure on producer. Good job Frank on calling this wine blind!
The CT blind also tasted to me like 100% chard. It was a bit overshadowed by the Selosse that came before it. Notes of clean yellow fruit with low dosage. A tasty champagne that I’d be happy with in my glass any day.

2016 Forman Chardonnay
2009 Henri Boillot Meursault Le Charmes
The Forman was a funny one because I didn’t have a chance to taste it yet before Gerry was starting to give out hints about the producer (prominent wine maker in Napa from the 1970’s). I asked them to pass me the bottle and saw stars on the capsule and called Forman Chard before the wine hit my glass. It tasted very aromatic and flashy but well made to me. The HB had white flowers on the nose, medium chard richness/density. Some light/faded oak notes. I guessed Burgundy “from the middle section” (showing my Burgundy knowledge lol) with a few years of age. From my limited experience of HB in the past I got more of the reduction notes so it was a treat to get a to taste some with more than a few years of aging. I think I would have liked to have a bit more acid and brightness but maybe it’s because I’m used to younger wine and need to appreciate the gentle nature and integration that comes with age.

2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Pinot Noir Whistling Ridge Vineyard
I guessed Old World Burg with a few years of age. It was red fruited with a bit of spice. Medium fruit and gentle (not a lot of structure). I didn’t get any earth or herbal notes. When Brig said this was a WB wine I called Goodfellow. My first time with this producer and hopefully not the last.

2017 Morgan Pinot Noir Double L Vineyard
Blind, I immediately went to Sonoma/RRV PN with this wine (and was wrong). Medium red fruit but it had more of a weighty feel than the Goodfellow that came before. Well made and tasty but I liked the Goodfellow more that night.

2016 Maze Napa Cabernet
Huge cab nose with lots of tobacco. I joked with the person who brought it that I can tell he’s a fan of cigars. On the palate, very plush/mouth coating. Mocha and dark plum. I guessed Napa cab from a recent vintage. Good job Ramon for the blind call on this wine!

2001 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape (A)
2001 Domaine du Vieux Télégraphe (B)
These two wines were brown bagged. The person to my right asked me to smell his glass (B) and I confirmed that it was moderately corked. So I avoided B and I went to get a taste from (A) and found some wet cardboard so I thought I mixed them up. I went back to (B) and found (B) was even more wet cardboard! I went back for small tastes to confirm after the reveal and my conclusion is that (A) was drinkable but had some brett (which I don’t mind) but was lightly corked. B was undrinkable to me.

2017 Once & Future Wine Zinfandel Frank's Block Teldeschi Vineyard
Hard to get a good sense of this wine after the Maze and other wines but it tasted like a dark red wine with spices and low tannin. I guessed grenache. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ would be nice to revisit this wine.

2016 Coche-Dury Bourgogne Blanc
This wine stole the night at the end with it’s reenergizing citrus and bright fruit. I found a wonderful Meyer lemon oil note that was really persistent. I don’t know Burgundy that well and guessed PYCM for this wine.
Last edited by Viet Ly on May 1st, 2021, 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#2 Post by Viet Ly »

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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#3 Post by William Kelley »

Viet Ly wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:10 am I decided to decant the Ulysse Collin
Did you try it before? Not something I have ever felt impelled to do, especially for Les Maillons which, being Pinot Noir, is the most fragile of Collin's wines.
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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#4 Post by Curtis Chen »

William Kelley wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:37 am
Viet Ly wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:10 am I decided to decant the Ulysse Collin
Did you try it before? Not something I have ever felt impelled to do, especially for Les Maillons which, being Pinot Noir, is the most fragile of Collin's wines.
Do you decant Champagne at all? Wasn't at Viet's dinner and can't speak for his bottle, but would be cool to know your thoughts. It's been somewhat of a hot topic lately.

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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#5 Post by William Kelley »

Curtis Chen wrote: May 1st, 2021, 12:13 pm
William Kelley wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:37 am
Viet Ly wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:10 am I decided to decant the Ulysse Collin
Did you try it before? Not something I have ever felt impelled to do, especially for Les Maillons which, being Pinot Noir, is the most fragile of Collin's wines.
Do you decant Champagne at all? Wasn't at Viet's dinner and can't speak for his bottle, but would be cool to know your thoughts. It's been somewhat of a hot topic lately.
You know, I confess that I don't.

I do think that, between crown caps and increasing use of technical closures, contemporary Champagne can be too frothy: making it the old fashioned way, you start with six bars and you might end up at five or four and a half; with modern crown caps and technical closures and disgorgement practices you keep a lot more. So I can understand why one might want to give a Champagne a quick decant just to de-gas it a bit. Similarly to open up a tight young wine. But you clearly loose things in decanting Champagne for whatever you gain, so I would prefer just to cellar such wines for a few more years.
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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#6 Post by brigcampbell »

Nice writeup, Viet

Here's a few notes from the evening. Beware, riddled with phone typos.

Others:
Maze - guessed 2016 napa cab. No idea on the producer. Didn't stop Ramon from calling Maze. The guy that brought the wine freaked. We play pro ball, baby. LOL.

Zin: stumped - one of those times when someone ask you "okay, what is it?" and your initial response is "I'd like to phone a friend"

Morgan: knew it was PN but I was with Viet, more north. Had the red apple of anderson valley. Dialed back compared to "typical" SLH which threw me for a loop. Nice juice.

  • 2001 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape (4/29/2021)
    blind: thought it was a pinot noir with some age.

    the color was still very dark, this will last a long time. Great bottle of wine.
  • 2016 Coche-Dury Bourgogne Blanc - France, Burgundy, Bourgogne Blanc (4/29/2021)
    Blind: I thought is might a Arnot-Roberts or Kutch Trout Gulch but the nose had a flinty note that said white burg.

    this wine did not suck. great aromas of flint, pineapple, and citrus on the palate. Toss in some mango / melon for fun. Strong backbone of acid, this will last forever.
  • 2016 Forman Chardonnay - USA, California, Napa Valley (4/29/2021)
    blind: Napa chardonnay guess - maybe Maithasson.

    This is a really good bottle of wine - no malo and probably 100% neutral oak. Great precision.
  • 2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Pinot Noir Whistling Ridge Vineyard - USA, Oregon, Willamette Valley, Ribbon Ridge (4/29/2021)
    Alright, this is a burg lovers delight. The nose didn't have the dirty burg character, this wine is very clean, but the palate delivers a red fruited delight of cranberry, tart strawberry with fine tannis. This was popular at the table. Can't miss here.
  • NV Jacques Selosse Initial - France, Champagne, Champagne Grand Cru (4/29/2021)
    Blind: knew it was something special but what? Thought is might be a Mousse I had recently that was excellent or maybe Winston Churchill which was a real treat. Never really narrowed in on a wine other than I really like this a lot. great balance, almond notes on the notes.
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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#7 Post by brigcampbell »

Regarding decanting sparklers - it can definitely make a difference. Had limited personal experience during zoom tastings where the sparklers were open in the morning or early afternoon and then not officially tasted until the evening.

Additionally, I've tasted quite a bit the next morning, even left in the refrigerator without a cork, and there's still fizz. Keeping it cold is key.
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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#8 Post by Greg K »

Viet Ly wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:10 am 2016 Ulysse Collin Champagne Extra Brut Blanc de Noirs Les Maillon
NV Jacques Selosse Initial
2012 Chartogne-Taillet Champagne Chemin de Reims
I decided to decant the Ulysse Collin because I saw Rob Pavlovich decanted this exact wine recently on his IG.
William Kelley wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:37 am
Viet Ly wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:10 am I decided to decant the Ulysse Collin
Did you try it before? Not something I have ever felt impelled to do, especially for Les Maillons which, being Pinot Noir, is the most fragile of Collin's wines.
I feel slightly responsible here, as I think the initial decision by Rob to decant the Maillons was partially driven by me..... I drink a lot of Collin (it's by far my largest holding of grower champagne), and I do think young Roises and Enfers benefit from a brief decant, because of their structure. I drink a lot less Maillons, so don't have as much experience with decanting it and generally haven't.

In fairness, in a couple of interviews Olivier has suggested decanting his wines young helps, so I'm not entirely out on a ledge here :)
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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#9 Post by Blake Brown »

William Kelley wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:54 pm
Curtis Chen wrote: May 1st, 2021, 12:13 pm
William Kelley wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:37 am

Did you try it before? Not something I have ever felt impelled to do, especially for Les Maillons which, being Pinot Noir, is the most fragile of Collin's wines.
Do you decant Champagne at all? Wasn't at Viet's dinner and can't speak for his bottle, but would be cool to know your thoughts. It's been somewhat of a hot topic lately.
You know, I confess that I don't.

I do think that, between crown caps and increasing use of technical closures, contemporary Champagne can be too frothy: making it the old fashioned way, you start with six bars and you might end up at five or four and a half; with modern crown caps and technical closures and disgorgement practices you keep a lot more. So I can understand why one might want to give a Champagne a quick decant just to de-gas it a bit. Similarly to open up a tight young wine. But you clearly loose things in decanting Champagne for whatever you gain, so I would prefer just to cellar such wines for a few more years.
William, please elaborate on what things are lost by decanting champagne other than most likely some bubbles. Thank you.
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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#10 Post by Blake Brown »

Nice notes and wines Viet.

Also, I've given a lot of thought to decanting some select champagnes, but have not yet pulled the trigger. So, I find it interesting that you and Brig have done so, apparently with some positive results. I'd like to pursue this with more discussion and experimentation. Perhaps an occasion to compare 2 bottles of the same wine, one decanted and the other not.
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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#11 Post by William Kelley »

Blake Brown wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 8:18 am
William Kelley wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:54 pm
Curtis Chen wrote: May 1st, 2021, 12:13 pm

Do you decant Champagne at all? Wasn't at Viet's dinner and can't speak for his bottle, but would be cool to know your thoughts. It's been somewhat of a hot topic lately.
You know, I confess that I don't.

I do think that, between crown caps and increasing use of technical closures, contemporary Champagne can be too frothy: making it the old fashioned way, you start with six bars and you might end up at five or four and a half; with modern crown caps and technical closures and disgorgement practices you keep a lot more. So I can understand why one might want to give a Champagne a quick decant just to de-gas it a bit. Similarly to open up a tight young wine. But you clearly loose things in decanting Champagne for whatever you gain, so I would prefer just to cellar such wines for a few more years.
William, please elaborate on what things are lost by decanting champagne other than most likely some bubbles. Thank you.
Aromas. What's more, once you've decanted the wine, the "softening" effect on the wine's structure and loss of gas over time can't really be stopped. The base wines themselves are not always very robust (though wines from producers such as Collin would be exceptions to that rule, of course) by comparison with white Burgundy, Bordeaux etc - wines that I will often decant.
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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#12 Post by brigcampbell »

Blake Brown wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 8:26 am Nice notes and wines Viet.

Also, I've given a lot of thought to decanting some select champagnes, but have not yet pulled the trigger. So, I find it interesting that you and Brig have done so, apparently with some positive results. I'd like to pursue this with more discussion and experimentation. Perhaps an occasion to compare 2 bottles of the same wine, one decanted and the other not.
I would also add the temperature of the champagne is an important factor and a change in the wine due to decanting might simply be the result of a warmer wine. The warmer the more fruit, rounder texture and oak influence from my experience. Want that lime/lemon/acid - serve it very chilled. So what's the influence and effects of temperature versus the introduction of oxygen?

Might need 3 bottles for your test:

1. Pop n Pour - Cellar temperature
2. Pop n Pour - straight from the refrigerator
3. Decanted - from the fridge but let it get to #1 temperature

Get #3 started and when it hits #1 temp then open #1 and #2.

report back in! [wow.gif]
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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#13 Post by Blake Brown »

brigcampbell wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 9:43 am
Blake Brown wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 8:26 am Nice notes and wines Viet.

Also, I've given a lot of thought to decanting some select champagnes, but have not yet pulled the trigger. So, I find it interesting that you and Brig have done so, apparently with some positive results. I'd like to pursue this with more discussion and experimentation. Perhaps an occasion to compare 2 bottles of the same wine, one decanted and the other not.
I would also add the temperature of the champagne is an important factor and a change in the wine due to decanting might simply be the result of a warmer wine. The warmer the more fruit, rounder texture and oak influence from my experience. Want that lime/lemon/acid - serve it very chilled. So what's the influence and effects of temperature versus the introduction of oxygen?

Might need 3 bottles for your test:

1. Pop n Pour - Cellar temperature
2. Pop n Pour - straight from the refrigerator
3. Decanted - from the fridge but let it get to #1 temperature

Get #3 started and when it hits #1 temp then open #1 and #2.

report back in! [wow.gif]
No doubt about the temperature component here. Some good ideas Brig. I certainly know the change in the fruit profile and even the feel when a wne gets warmer and for champagne, I tend to prefer a good chill, thus a lot more citrus/ acidity than with stone fruit as an example.

Maybe a subject for the Book Club with an out of county guest.
"In victory you deserve Champagne. In defeat, you need it".
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“Remember gentlemen, it’s not just France we are fighting for, it’s Champagne!” – Winston Churchill

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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#14 Post by Arvid Rosengren »

William Kelley wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:54 pm
Curtis Chen wrote: May 1st, 2021, 12:13 pm
William Kelley wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:37 am

Did you try it before? Not something I have ever felt impelled to do, especially for Les Maillons which, being Pinot Noir, is the most fragile of Collin's wines.
Do you decant Champagne at all? Wasn't at Viet's dinner and can't speak for his bottle, but would be cool to know your thoughts. It's been somewhat of a hot topic lately.
You know, I confess that I don't.

I do think that, between crown caps and increasing use of technical closures, contemporary Champagne can be too frothy: making it the old fashioned way, you start with six bars and you might end up at five or four and a half; with modern crown caps and technical closures and disgorgement practices you keep a lot more. So I can understand why one might want to give a Champagne a quick decant just to de-gas it a bit. Similarly to open up a tight young wine. But you clearly loose things in decanting Champagne for whatever you gain, so I would prefer just to cellar such wines for a few more years.
I'm not a big fan of decanting champagne either, but funny enough, the one wine where I've really thought "these bubbles are just in the way" is Olivier's Rosé de Saignée. I've never decanted it, but definitely prefer it after some swirling and time in the glass. Perhaps applicable to the whole style of more "vinous" and structured champagnes.
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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#15 Post by Arvid Rosengren »

Viet Ly wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:10 am
2016 Forman Chardonnay
2009 Henri Boillot Meursault Le Charmes
The Forman was a funny one because I didn’t have a chance to taste it yet before Gerry was starting to give out hints about the producer (prominent wine maker in Napa from the 1970’s). I asked them to pass me the bottle and saw stars on the capsule and called Forman Chard before the wine hit my glass. It tasted very aromatic and flashy but well made to me. The HB had white flowers on the nose, medium chard richness/density. Some light/faded oak notes. I guessed Burgundy “from the middle section” (showing my Burgundy knowledge lol) with a few years of age. From my limited experience of HB in the past I got more of the reduction notes so it was a treat to get a to taste some with more than a few years of aging. I think I would have liked to have a bit more acid and brightness but maybe it’s because I’m used to younger wine and need to appreciate the gentle nature and integration that comes with age.
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Re: Ulysse Collin, Selosse, Chartogne-Taillet, Forman, Henri Boillot, Goodfellow, Morgan, Maze, Once and Future, Coche-D

#16 Post by Viet Ly »

Thanks for all the feedback. I haven't had this wine before and this was my first time decanting a Champagne. I do think there was some benefit of decanting in this example because we really had a short window to enjoy a small sample of this wine. One bottle, nine guys and I knew I wanted to serve this early on before the still wine came out. I decanted at arrival, and it was in glasses within 10-15 minutes. It was also too cold at the start and the decanting brought the temp up a bit. If I was at home with this wine (and a smaller group) I recommend not decanting.

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